Obito vs Minato & Tobirama

[OnPoint]

Kamui is useless against FTG, even IF he was able to teleport one or the 2 of them, then what?
they will just use their FTG to go back to the normal world, or better, they can attack him from both sides.

No evidence that Hiraishin can offer inter-dimensional travel (particularly some null, blank world which seemingly exists inside/through Obito's eyes only).

The long ranged Kamui is far more dangerous than that. Potential loss of limbs and decapitation are problems that the Hokage would face.

Let's not forget that Obito can increase Kamui's speed by using both eyes in unison.

 

[Ababeel]

No evidence that Hiraishin can offer inter-dimensional travel (particularly some null, blank world which seemingly exists inside/through Obito's eyes only).

The long ranged Kamui is far more dangerous than that. Potential loss of limbs and decapitation are problems that the Hokage would face.

Let's not forget that Obito can increase Kamui's speed by using both eyes in unison.

as I already stated, we know that the summoning jutsu/S/T jutsu can be used in another dimension and Sasuke has already proven that. There is no proof that Obito's dimension is at a higher level than Kaguya, and it makes the jutsus unusable...

- as for the "long ranged" Kamui, Minato proved that he is faster than that as well.
Kakashi used his Kamui first, but Minato threw his Kunai, entered SM, and teleported with Rasengan before Kakashi's Kamui even take effect.

- Even if he increased his speed, how is that going to be faster than instant?

 

[OnPoint]

as I already stated, we know that the summoning jutsu/S/T jutsu can be used in another dimension and Sasuke has already proven that. There is no proof that Obito's dimension is at a higher level than Kaguya, and it makes the jutsus unusable...

Like I said, it's pure guesswork at this stage. No proof that Obito's dimension is above/beneath or similar/dissimilar to Kaguya's, so there's no evidence that Hiraishin will provide a viable route out of Kamuiland.

- as for the "long ranged" Kamui, Minato proved that he is faster than that as well.
Kakashi used his Kamui first, but Minato threw his Kunai, entered SM, and teleported with Rasengan before Kakashi's Kamui even take effect.

Let's not take that out of context. Kamui was used in this instance to provide synergy between Minato and Kakashi in their attempts to beat Madara. Both Jutsu/actions needed to be used in sync - why would Kakashi use Kamui in a manner which Minato wouldn't be able to react to? Of course Kakashi needed to slow it down. Why would one even assume Kakashi used it as quickly as possible when Minato, as you mentioned, needed to throw his kunai, enter Sennin mode and form his Rasengan? I'm sure you don't actually believe someone could perform all three actions quicker than the quickest Kamui user, or that Kamui was even used to its fullest in that scenario...

- Even if he increased his speed, how is that going to be faster than instant?

All to do with reactions, evidently. It's like asking how Minato's arm was torn off by Obito if he was able to instantly teleport out of harms way. Hiraishin won't help him if the fella is too slow to even activate his technique in the first place. Obito (who remarked he'd warp him even quicker next time [

You must be registered for see links

]) almost caught him atop Hokage Monument - once you factor in Kamui's dual speed, it becomes very clear that Minato may not be able to react to such a technique.

 

[Rιver]

No evidence that Hiraishin can offer inter-dimensional travel (particularly some null, blank world which seemingly exists inside/through Obito's eyes only).

The long ranged Kamui is far more dangerous than that. Potential loss of limbs and decapitation are problems that the Hokage would face.

Let's not forget that Obito can increase Kamui's speed by using both eyes in unison.

That's if the user was to transport himself (f.e. when Kakashi and Obito synchronized their Kamui, Obito used his Dōryoku to transport himself whereas Kakashi boosted up the speed with his long-ranged Kamui). Unless you meant the opposite, it can't be used to transport other individuals.​

 

[OnPoint]

That's if the user was to transport himself (f.e. when Kakashi and Obito synchronized their Kamui, Obito used his Dōryoku to transport himself whereas Kakashi boosted up the speed with his long-ranged Kamui). Unless you meant the opposite, it can't be used to transport other individuals.​

If Obito grabs someone and activates his short ranged Kamui, what is stopping him from also using the long ranged form in this same moment? How will that not speed up the action?

 

[Sageof7Path]

Obito negative difficulty.

 

[Rιver]

If Obito grabs someone and activates his short ranged Kamui, what is stopping him from also using the long ranged form in this same moment? How will that not speed up the action?

That indeed works, but not on Tobirama and Minato. As soon as he grabs them, with intel Minato and Tobirama should react with their Hiraishin (Minato reacted with zero intel to a regular one) - which will be faster easily than Kamui.​

 

[Touken]

Obito still loses. He can't stay intangible and use his long range Kamui at the same time, it doesn't make sense considering he only becomes intangible when someone attacks him, and as seen in the Minato fight vs. Obito, Hiraishin always comes out at top.

 

[VongolaX]

Obito still loses. He can't stay intangible and use his long range Kamui at the same time, it doesn't make sense considering he only becomes intangible when someone attacks him, and as seen in the Minato fight vs. Obito, Hiraishin always comes out at top.

He was using one eye in that fight, now he has two.

So right eye stays intangible, while left eye kamui's long rang.

It's even more possible because he has Hashirama's cells too.

 

[Touken]

He was using one eye in that fight, now he has two.

So right eye stays intangible, while left eye kamui's long rang.

Simple, it's even more possible because he has Hashirama's cells too.

His intangibility doesn't work like that. It's been explained before that he warps his body parts away to the Kamui dimension. Why would he be randomly warping body parts away when there's no one attacking him? Not to mention there's a 5 minute limit, so as soon as either of team 2 sense that his entire body is in this dimension, they Hiraishin blitz him.

 

[OnPoint]

That indeed works, but not on Tobirama and Minato. As soon as he grabs them, with intel Minato and Tobirama should react with their Hiraishin (Minato reacted with zero intel to a regular one) - which will be faster easily than Kamui.​

They start the fight knowing nothing about their opponent.

Minato reacted to Kamui once - And Obito remarked that he'd simply warp him even faster next time (implying, of course, that his Jutsu speed would surpass the limit of Minato's reaction time). Hence the dramatic stand off between the two [

You must be registered for see links

]. It would be illogical to suggest that either of the duo could escape that Kamui once they'd been grabbed, let alone one boosted by the other eye.

 

[Rιver]

They start the fight knowing nothing about their opponent.

Minato reacted to Kamui once - And Obito remarked that he'd simply warp him even faster next time (implying, of course, that his Jutsu speed would surpass the limit of Minato's reaction time). Hence the dramatic stand off between the two [

You must be registered for see links

]. It would be illogical to suggest that either of the duo could escape that Kamui once they'd been grabbed, let alone one boosted by the other eye.

In my knowledge, he only said that

You must be registered for see links

, which is because he started talking at first instead of executing the technique. So... I don't believe Kamui's speed can be boosted at will.​

 

[VongolaX]

His intangibility doesn't work like that. It's been explained before that he warps his body parts away to the Kamui dimension. Why would he be randomly warping body parts away when there's no one attacking him? Not to mention there's a 5 minute limit, so as soon as either of team 2 sense that his entire body is in this dimension, they Hiraishin blitz him.

He's kept a full body intangibility before hasn't he?

During Danzo's body guard fight he travelled straight up the pillar intangible.

On top of that, you don't need someone to attack you to send body parts into dimensions.

It's two s/t users against one, anything can happen.

So it's complete possible

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Meh, probably Obito. Long range Kamui is a *****, and should he grab one of the duo and warp them, then augment the speed with the other eye, doubling the effectiveness, I don't see how they could escape. I'm not really sure. Kakashi was able to

You must be registered for see links

the Gedo Mazo's arm nigh instantly (keep in mind the arm is much larger than a human body size, let alone a singular limb), so imagining him warping something significantly smaller, such as a head, looks to be too troublesome for the duo. That, and Kamui wields no indication signs so how they'd see it coming is... slim, despite their sensory.

 

[TrollingSage]

They start the fight knowing nothing about their opponent.

Minato reacted to Kamui once - And Obito remarked that he'd simply warp him even faster next time (implying, of course, that his Jutsu speed would surpass the limit of Minato's reaction time). Hence the dramatic stand off between the two [

You must be registered for see links

]. It would be illogical to suggest that either of the duo could escape that Kamui once they'd been grabbed, let alone one boosted by the other eye.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Don't take things out of context. He said next time he'll warp as soon as he makes contact. Nothing to do with the speed of his technique.

Meh, probably Obito. Long range Kamui is a *****, and should he grab one of the duo and warp them, then augment the speed with the other eye, doubling the effectiveness, I don't see how they could escape. I'm not really sure. Kakashi was able to

You must be registered for see links

the Gedo Mazo's arm nigh instantly (keep in mind the arm is much larger than a human body size, let alone a singular limb), so imagining him warping something significantly smaller, such as a head, looks to be too troublesome for the duo. That, and Kamui wields no indication signs so how they'd see it coming is... slim, despite their sensory.

Kakashi's kamui was being boosted by Kurama's chakra at that time.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Don't take things out of context. He said next time he'll warp as soon as he makes contact. Nothing to do with the speed of his technique.
Kakashi's kamui was being boosted by Kurama's chakra at that time.

Remind me? I don't recall.

Regardless, that isn't the only source of evidence. He warped

You must be registered for see links

, which is human sized, in a mere instant. Now imagine warping something as small as a head? The point still stands.

 

[OnPoint]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Don't take things out of context. He said next time he'll warp as soon as he makes contact. Nothing to do with the speed of his technique.

If Kamui's activation speed posed no threat to Minato, there would be no point in having such a dramatic scene afterwards with the two going head to head. By Minato's own admission, whoever struck first would win.

 

[TrollingSage]

Remind me? I don't recall.

Regardless, that isn't the only source of evidence. He warped

You must be registered for see links

, which is human sized, in a mere instant. Now imagine warping something as small as a head? The point still stands.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Atleast 5 times stronger he said.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Atleast 5 times stronger he said.

Whether he was, or wasn't doesn't interest me anyways. I've provided other proof.

 

[KidGamer65]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Atleast 5 times stronger he said.

Conveniently leaving out the part where Kakashi used up that chakra, and the chakra cloak had long disappeared. He had no cloak when he did that to the Mazo. It was all him.