Obito vs Minato & Tobirama

[OnPoint]

Location: Madara vs Gokage
Intel: Obito has knowledge on Hiraishin and all its variants; the Hokage know nothing about their opponent.
Mindset: IC
Restrictions/Scenario: Obito has his double Mangekyō. Minato is alive and without Kurama's chakra. Edo Tensei is restricted.

If unbalanced in Obito's favour, Tobirama has access to 2 fodder Edo summons.

 

[Strict]

Has Obito Hashirama's DNA? If he possesses double Kamui and Izanagi, they'll have simply no chance.
Anyway, without knowledge, if Obito stored up a good amount of Chakra, he will snipe one of them instantly with his long range Kamui. Then, it's only a matter of time when Obito with his double Kamui, Juubi sized Katon, Genjutsu and probably Izanagi, will kill the other.

 

[OnPoint]

Suppose Minato and Tobirama each start with a Kage Bunshin. And yes he (Obito) has Hashirama's DNA.

 

[Benjamin King]

Obito quite easily. With his right eye, he can stay intangible while using his left eye to snipe off Tobirama and Minato. With the duo not having the reactions and sensory to detect when Obito is using Kamui, they will be wrapped instantly. Given off the fact that Obito's Kamui speed is enhanced.​

 

[Strict]

Suppose Minato and Tobirama each start with a Kage Bunshin. And yes he (Obito) has Hashirama's DNA.

Obito, who could know his own weakness of running the danger of being attacked from the Kamui dimension while he goes intangible, could purposely aim at snapping off body parts with his Kamui. If he aims for one's body and interrupts the warping process half way, it could end in the victim being dissected, as the middle of his body was sucked away. This, clones are naturally killed.

I wonder if Obito can warp opponents to different locations inside his Kamui dimension with his long range Kamui. At least, if Obito warps opponents with his close range Kamui, they can appear at different locations within the Kamui dimension.

 

[OnPoint]

Possibly. I was just working under the assumption that neither side resorts to their trump cards early on (Obito starting off firing out shuriken from his dimension etc).

I guess the question is: what's needed to make the fight more balanced?

 

[Strict]

Well, if they gather the necessary information on the long range Kamui (by sending out a Bunshin which gets absorbed), they would avoid it by instantly jumping with Hiraishin if Kamui starts to warp them. But apart from that, they will also have to figure out how his other Kamui works. Obito has the advantage of having knowledge. Minato outspeed Obito with Hiraishin Level 2. This time, he just won't fall for the same trick.

The moment they have the intel on the long range Kamui, Obito will have problems to snipe them with Kamui, because I don't think that Kamui will warp their complete body faster than they will be able to teleport with Hiraishin.

 

[kakashi ms]

Well, if they gather the necessary information on the long range Kamui (by sending out a Bunshin which gets absorbed), they would avoid it by instantly jumping with Hiraishin if Kamui starts to warp them. But apart from that, they will also have to figure out how his other Kamui works. Obito has the advantage of having knowledge. Minato outspeed Obito with Hiraishin Level 2. This time, he just won't fall for the same trick.

The moment they have the intel on the long range Kamui, Obito will have problems to snipe them with Kamui, because I don't think that Kamui will warp their complete body faster than they will be able to teleport with Hiraishin.

obito only needs to warp thier necks
this isnt short range kamui, it is long one which can warp part of objects like necks
i dont see them react to a kamui on thier necks

 

[Ababeel]

Minato fodderstomps as in the manga without even a scratch. Tobirama is not needed.

 

[OnPoint]

Minato has never canonically fought an Obito wielding two Mangekyō Sharingan. So that statement alone is guff.

 

[VongolaX]

Double kamui allows intangibility in one eye and a long range of kamui in the other.

He's untouchable Lol

Obito can kamui stakes at the Edo tensei and bind them with outer path chains.

Obito has Gedo mazou too (everyone know well why) regardless of no rinnegan.

His mokuton wood cutter can work well against minato if he catches him off guard like he did in there last fight.

Healing/chakra will be in favor of Obito.

Rikudou Justu or Inyouton as shown through different incarnations of Obito, Madara, and pain will work in his favor as well.

The key for Obito of winning is to stay on the defense Kamui while using other attacks besides the touch and warp kamui.

 

[OnPoint]

Obito can kamui stakes at the Edo tensei and bind them with outer path chains.

I don't actually think he has access to Gedō (Outer Path) without the Rinnegan.

Obito has Gedo mazou too (everyone know well why) regardless of no rinnegan.

The manga indicates that he can control it due to his genetic make up, but it says nothing about a non-Rinnegan user being able to summon it.

Rikudou Justu or Inyouton as shown through different incarnations of Obito, Madara, and pain will work in his favor as well.

See above.

 

[VongolaX]

I don't actually think he has access to Gedō (Outer Path) without the Rinnegan.

He can if he can use Gedo mazou and he used Kamui to shoot out outer path stakes.

He uses his rinnegan soloely on controlling 6 bijuus and evolving the statue into the juubi

The manga indicates that he can control it due to his genetic make up, but it says nothing about a non-Rinnegan user being able to summon it.

Remember when Obito extracted killerbee's tentacle?

Nagato was out fighting naruto at that time.

Also note take into account that controlling=summoning too in this context.

Remember when Minato stated that the mask man summoned the kyuubi?

Same would apply with Gedo mazou, you can't control something without having the ability to summon.

It would be pointless

See above.

Chapter 606 page 15-16

Madara taught him all of these techniques, but he will need to use it through Madara's chakra (black rods).

Even blind Madara was using rikudou Justus against Hashirama.

 

[Touken]

The duo win.

 

[OnPoint]

He can if he can use Gedo mazou and he used Kamui to shoot out outer path stakes.

He uses his rinnegan soloely on controlling 6 bijuus and evolving the statue into the juubi

No evidence of that. He had the Rinnegan at that time so it isn't surprising that he controlled/summoned the statue in its entirety so freely.

Remember when Obito extracted killerbee's tentacle?

Nagato was out fighting naruto at that time.

Also note take into account that controlling=summoning too in this context.

Remember when Minato stated that the mask man summoned the kyuubi?

Same would apply with Gedo mazou, you can't control something without having the ability to summon.

It would be pointless

Never has someone actually summoned the statue themselves without the Rinnegan.

Madara summoning the Mazō only after he had awakened the Rinnegan is telling. He'd had both Uchiha and Senju DNA for decades beforehand and wasn't able to call forth the statue.

"At the same time, that also allowed me to break a certain seal...I was able to summon..." [

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Chapter 606 page 15-16

Madara taught him all of these techniques, but he will need to use it through Madara's chakra (black rods).

Even blind Madara was using rikudou Justus against Hashirama.

I was referring to Shinra Tensei and the like. I really don't understand how anyone could use those techniques without the Rinnegan.

 

[OnPoint]

This translation is also telling:

zetsu: nagato comes from one senju family line \\ he is the only person capable to summon the heretical demonic statue besides madara\\

 

[Strict]

Note that Madara summoned Gedo Mazo to the battlefield right after implanting his Rinnegan back. There would be no need to go into a fight with the Bijuu, if he could have just summoned the statue eariler to bind them. Madara consciously said control and not summon.

 

[VongolaX]

No evidence of that. He had the Rinnegan at that time so it isn't surprising that he controlled/summoned the statue in its entirety so freely.

My point is that what he mainly focused on...

Never has someone actually summoned the statue themselves without the Rinnegan.

Madara summoning the Mazō only after he had awakened the Rinnegan is telling. He'd had both Uchiha and Senju DNA for decades beforehand and wasn't able to call forth the statue.

"At the same time, that also allowed me to break a certain seal...I was able to summon..." [

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Exactly my friend

It was thanks to Madara breaking the seal, Obito is allowed to use these Justus through Madara's chakra

The black rod

Madara was the gate way for these opportunities.

That's what Black zetsu wanted too

I was referring to Shinra Tensei and the like. I really don't understand how anyone could use those techniques without the Rinnegan.

Through the black rods

How did some dead corpse have the power to use shrina tensei?

Via black rods

That's what page 16 of chapter 606 indicates.

Look at Madara, he was absorbing chakra left and right with no rinnegan.

For Obito he will need the chakra of both incarnates to perform the Justus of six paths

Madara's chakra (black rods) and Hashirama's chakra (his cells/DNA in half his body)

 

[VongolaX]

Note that Madara summoned Gedo Mazo to the battlefield right after implanting his Rinnegan back. There would be no need to go into a fight with the Bijuu, if he could have just summoned the statue eariler to bind them. Madara consciously said control and not summon.

Because Obito is it's jinchuuriki

Only another rinnegan user/original owner can extract the Gedo from Obito.

 

[Strict]

Some of you are never at a loss for excuses.