[Discussion] Big Logic Failure in 683?

[Conspirator.]

Because at the bottom of one of the end pages it said that obito and naruto are going to save Sasuke not sakura naruto and obito

True about that. Past history isn't on Sakura's side either.

 

[Byron123]

Naruto only divide his natural chakra reserves when making clones, this reserve was stated to be about twice as big as Kakashi's. If that is true, then if Naruto has 2 clones then one clone holds roughly the same amount as Kakashi does. However, Naruto has already used some chakra, so he has less than his maximum, meaning that the clone has a little less than half of the maximum chakra Naruto has. (Meaning, less than Kakashi.)

Lol but it was also stated that one can build up his chakra reserves. What you say happened a long, A LONG time ago. Besides, we don't know exactly how Hago's power up works. For instance, it might have become his own power.

 

[Shinato]

Naruto's clones can be created with Sage Mode/Biju Mode/Biju Sage Mode activated, Kurama gave chakra to a clone (god I don't even know how this would work) so I am not really convinced only his base chakra is shared between them.

Also Naruto's base reserves must exceed Kakashi's by so much that it isn't even comparable. Just think back to the Rasenshuriken training you are telling me anybody else could have done that without dying? And Naruto never used Kyuubi chakra back then only his own.

Alone if you take the number of clones he can make and use compared to anyone else would mean he should have as much chakra as Konoha as a whole.

During the training for the Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, Naruto asked if Kakashi had used the same way of training before, to which he said he was unable as he lacked the chakra reserves that Naruto has. Naruto then asked how much more chakra he had compared to Kakashi. Kakashi replied that Naruto had about twice as much chakra, and with Kurama's it would be a hundredfold. Meaning that the clone currently has about the same amount of Kakashi, either a little less, or a little more. (Though most likely less as Naruto had already used some chakra when he created the clone.)

 

[Shinato]

Lol but it was also stated that one can build up his chakra reserves. What you say happened a long, A LONG time ago. Besides, we don't know exactly how Hago's power up works. For instance, it might have become his own power.

Then Kakashi's reserves has grown just the same, and there are nothing that states that one person's reserves expand faster than others. (If that is the case, then Kakashi's may have expanded faster than Naruto's. We don't know.)

 

[Byron123]

Then Kakashi's reserves has grown just the same, and there are nothing that states that one person's reserves expand faster than others. (If that is the case, then Kakashi's may have expanded faster than Naruto's. We don't know.)

We do know though for a fact that Naruto is an uzumaki and uzumaki have enormous chakra reserves. Since Naruto had twice as Kakashi's back then, it would only make sense because of his lineage that his chakra reserves would expand also faster. After all, why even at that time, he had bigger chakra reserves than Kakashi? Unless you suggest that these chakra reserves (the bonus of being an uzumaki) comes once you're given birth and that's it. In my opinion, the difference in chakra reserves is based exactly on the speed with which you can develop them.

 

[Torche]

Because, Obito has to sync to an unfamiliar dimension and utilize his Kamui, all the whilst keeping the Kamui and Kaguya's dimension openings as well as keeping it stable. It's bound to cost a shit load of chakra.

 

[TyrionUchiha]

For crying out loud - we're talking about syncing dimensional portals. Doesn't that sound like it would need an assload of chakra? I wouldn't be surprised if Kakashi were to help and it still wouldn't be enough. Kaguya can throw that shit around like it's nothing (she's the REAL chakra monster), and Obito was just brought from the brink of death. He wouldn't ask for so much if he wasn't already drained himself. So no, it ain't THAT big of a logic fail.

 

[V h o]

Well for starters its never implied how much chakra Naruto puts into his clones, the clones usually don't last long after using big attacks so the clone probably has somewhere below 20% ( I would even say below 10%) of naruto chakra.

 

[Shinato]

Well for starters its never implied how much chakra Naruto puts into his clones, the clones usually don't last long after using big attacks so the clone probably has somewhere below 20% ( I would even say below 10%) of naruto chakra.

Kage Bushin-No-Jutsu works by dividing the chakra equally among the clones and the user. Thus every clone has the same amount of chakra as the original has. (That is why not even the Sharingan can see through the Shadow Clones.)

 

[V h o]

Kage Bushin-No-Jutsu works by dividing the chakra equally among the clones and the user. Thus every clone has the same amount of chakra as the original has. (That is why not even the Sharingan can see through the Shadow Clones.)

So your saying Naruto's clone had 50% of Naruto's chakra? And 50% of all tailed beasts, sage chakra, and naruto's chakra is comparable to a yin seal.

 

[Shinato]

So your saying Naruto's clone had 50% of Naruto's chakra? And 50% of all tailed beasts, sage chakra, and naruto's chakra is comparable to a yin seal.

No. I am saying that the Clone has 50% of his chakra. Kage Bushin only divide the chakra of the user. Meaning Naruto's chakra alone. No Senjutsu chakra, nor Bijuu chakra is inside the clone. (If it is, then its only the part that is mixed in with Naruto's chakra, which is very little.)

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

You must be registered for see links

 

[V h o]

No. I am saying that the Clone has 50% of his chakra. Kage Bushin only divide the chakra of the user. Meaning Naruto's chakra alone. No Senjutsu chakra, nor Bijuu chakra is inside the clone. (If it is, then its only the part that is mixed in with Naruto's chakra, which is very little.)

Well I disagree, the clones seem to get what the user can do, since before the clones could go in sage mode and the new ones can use Naruto's new mode (which may or may not be senjutsu and bijuu chakra). I still don't see Naruto dividing his power as evenly as your suggesting. Although Veritas thread does prove why Naruto's clone would have less chakra.

 

[Shinato]

Well I disagree, the clones seem to get what the user can do, since before the clones could go in sage mode and the new ones can use Naruto's new mode (which may or may not be senjutsu and bijuu chakra). I still don't see Naruto dividing his power as evenly as your suggesting. Although Veritas thread does prove why Naruto's clone would have less chakra.

You cannot really disagree, that is how the Jutsu works. Its already been explained, denying it at this point will be nothing but what it is, blind denial.

 

[JustAnotherNarutoFan]

You cannot really disagree, that is how the Jutsu works. Its already been explained, denying it at this point will be nothing but what it is, blind denial.

Well we can always start a discussion on Shadow Clones itself, compared to everything else it's probably the most hoax jutsu we know.

Though one probably shouldn't use mathematical logic on a Manga this can only go wrong.

 

[ShadowBandit]

A weakened Sakura has more chakra then one of Naruto clones......who cares

Don't get all pissy Sakura haters, its not like Sakura is on the level of Naruto and Sasuke.

and whoever said Obito can't utilize sage or bijuu chakra, doesn't make sense, Obito was the ten tail jubii, and the Jubii was basically natural energy in manifestation.

/thread

 

[Jimihendrix]

well yeah, how would the clones be able to use naruto's different modes then? and if only the original had the bijuu chakra, then how would the base chakra be split up evenly enough so that a sharingan wouldn't be able to tell who's the real jin from the clones? So you see, the clones must also posses that magnitude of chakra as well.

Or Naruto knows how to distribute chakra to his clones so it's not split evenly.

Maybe because clones dissipitate, Obito can't rely on Naruto's clone's chakra for such an important mission.

At any rate, I'm sure Naruto's clone has more chakra than kakashi and sakura combined...Naruto's clones from part 1.

Or maybe naruto's clone just meets the cutoff of the chakra needed to sync dimensions (which i imagine is intense) and sakura's chakra just adds that little nudge to meet the quota

 

[JustAnotherNarutoFan]

A little Math project to show not to apply our logic to Naruto Verse:

Sage Art: Many Ultra-Big Ball Spiralling Serial Spheres Jutsu

Lets assume a normal Rasengan and a Chidori take about the same amount of Chakra. In Part 1 Sasuke could use it I think 3 times a day during the chunin exam final.

Naruto uses about 25-30 Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan in the Jutsu named above.

Those have a diameter of 4-6 meters while a normal Rasengan has a diameter of about 15 cm.

The volume of a a sphere is 1/6*phi*d^3, this means:

400^3/15^3 = 3375

An Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan contains 3375 normal Rasengan assuming same chakra density.

Meaning the whole attack contains 3375*25 = 84 375 Rasengans

Divide it through half because Sage Chakra doubles your Chakra pool. -> 42 187.5

Divde it through 3 because that's the rough amount of Sasuke's chakra pool at the chunin exam final. -> 14 062.5

So at that time Naruto had roughly 14 000 times more chakra than Genin Sasuke. Conclusion?

 

[Shinato]

A little Math project to show not to apply our logic to Naruto Verse:

Sage Art: Many Ultra-Big Ball Spiralling Serial Spheres Jutsu

Lets assume a normal Rasengan and a Chidori take about the same amount of Chakra. In Part 1 Sasuke could use it I think 3 times a day during the chunin exam final.

Naruto uses about 25-30 Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan in the Jutsu named above.

Those have a diameter of 4-6 meters while a normal Rasengan has a diameter of about 15 cm.

The volume of a a sphere is 1/6*phi*d^3, this means:

400^3/15^3 = 3375

An Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan contains 3375 normal Rasengan assuming same chakra density.

Meaning the whole attack contains 3375*25 = 84 375 Rasengans

Divide it through half because Sage Chakra doubles your Chakra pool. -> 42 187.5

Divde it through 3 because that's the rough amount of Sasuke's chakra pool at the chunin exam final. -> 14 062.5

So at that time Naruto had roughly 14 000 times more chakra than Genin Sasuke. Conclusion?

Conclusion, Uchiha's have very little chakra but a very high quality. Sasuke is still able to use Chidori just as many times as the current Naruto is able to us Rasengan.

 

[QuimicVital]

Naruto's clone has half of all of Naruto's chakra, meaning basic chaka, biju chakra, nature chakra.

Who the hell told you that?