[Theory] The impossibility of the existence of a 'Tobidara', and the possibility of a plothole

[Mr Hiru]

Title describes the core of this theory, which I might add is an anti-theory. Well, this is just for fun, I may be wrong about this, but I HAD to do some research after looking back to chapter 370.

There is something that catched my attention.

First: We have a kid with a right eye, after being brutally smashed by a boulder... Obito.

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In the other hand... we have an old man... one with only a left eye... Madara.

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Curiously, he said that he left his true eyes to someone else.

Is this the "truth"?

I thought that Madara didn't lie, until I saw this...

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...paradox. Madara sacrificed his right eye in order to survive the battle against Hashirama, how is that he was able to awake the Rinnegan in "both eyes" then? How is that he claims being the only shinobi aside of Hagoromo being able to awake "both eyes"? This can't be, because he sacrificed his right eye!

The only possibility I see here is that Madara is only the real owner of "one Rinnegan". The other one... is a plothole, until further explanation comes on the table.

Another thing to notice is this:

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Tobi has a Right eye. Madara had only his Left eye.

Tobi can't be Madara, because anatomically a left eye can't be transplanted into the right eye socket and viceversa, due the position of the inferior and superior oblique being in the opposite positions respectively.

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Also, the fact that Tobi is able to use Kamui automatically discards the possibility of him being Madara.

He is just Obito, the kid that was brainwashed by old hag Madara.

 

[kunde]

I dont get it. What's tobidara?

 

[dizzynaruto]

Title describes the core of this theory, which I might add is an anti-theory. Well, this is just for fun, I may be wrong about this, but I HAD to do some research after looking back to chapter 370.

There is something that catched my attention.

First: We have a kid with a left eye, after being brutally smashed by a boulder... Obito.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

In the other hand... we have an old man... one with only a right eye... Madara.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

Curiously, he said that he left his true eyes to someone else.

Is this the "truth"?

I thought that Madara didn't lie, until I saw this...

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

...paradox. Madara sacrificed his right eye in order to survive the battle against Hashirama, how is that he was able to awake the Rinnegan in "both eyes" then? How is that he claims being the only shinobi aside of Hagoromo being able to awake "both eyes"? This can't be, because he sacrificed his right eye!

The only possibility I see here is that Madara is only the real owner of "one Rinnegan". The other one... is a plothole, until further explanation comes on the table.

Another thing to notice is this:

Spoiler

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Tobi has a Left eye. Madara had only his Right eye.

Tobi can't be Madara, because anatomically a left eye can't be transplanted into the right eye socket, due the position of the inferior and superior oblique being in the opposite positions respectively.

Spoiler

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Also, the fact that Tobi is able to use Kamui automatically discards the possibility of him being Madara.

He is just Obito, the kid that was brainwashed by old hag Madara.

Fun thread is fun.

BUT... That panel with Madara's dead eye, I believe that was the activation, and the disintegration of the eye. It doesn't mean he had it afterwards. How he awakened rinnegan? Probably stole an eye, not crazy to think he would do that.

 

[Rohan]

But didn't Obito give his left eye to Kakashi ?

 

[Byron123]

Shame on you Hiru! For someone like you to waste your time to answer to the insanities of a fool, I expected more from you.


On topic: there might be many easy explanations for that, for example since it was an EMS that went blind, it might regain its light upon some time. Kishi can easliy cover that.

 

[Angelic.]

whyd you bother with this lol? your just confusing people. and you got left and right mixed up lol.

 

[Xlad]

It was also hinted that he wasn't Madara in Sasuke vs Itachi. Itachi said that the Madara he knew was barely a shell of his former self. The reality was that he was fooled into thinking that he was the real Madara.

Not a big hint. But for me, it left some suspicion on Tobi. But yeah, Kamui and it's workings was a huge indicator of him. In fact, it was so huge that Kakashi somehow didn't figure this out until Ch. 597 while Sakura did figure out its mechanics.

Edit: Yeah, don't do this because of that troll minamoto.

 

[Rohan]

I don't think so. Madara needed both eyes in order for the Indra and Ashura mix to awaken Rinnegan in them. After the awakening of Rinnegan, both of them went to Nagato. So, the possibilty of a third Rinnegan is out of the window.

Though, I admit that the Left and Right symbolism is weird. Lol

 

[Mr Hiru]

I dont get it. What's tobidara?

Search for it on the forums, there is a theory about a "second Madara" out there. Ask minamoto about it, it is a pretty interesting theory (though it need some more work on hard proof)

Fun thread is fun.

BUT... That panel with Madara's dead eye, I believe that was the activation, and the disintegration of the eye. It doesn't mean he had it afterwards. How he awakened rinnegan? Probably stole an eye, not crazy to think he would do that.

The curious thing is that afterwards, Madara claims himself of these Rinnegan being "his eyes". That's the reason behind the claim of this being a plothole.

But didn't Obito give his left eye to Kakashi ?

Sorry, I inverted the eyes. I meant right, and Madara having a left eye.

Shame on you Hiru! For someone like you to waste your time to answer to the insanities of a fool, I expected more from you.


On topic: there might be many easy explanations for that, for example since it was an EMS that went blind, it might regain its light upon some time. Kishi can easliy cover that.

You had to know that my speciallity is to break theories. I saw the chance and took it.

Also, that logic only worked for those who had already Hashirama cells implanted. But Kishimoto didn't explain that for someone who didn't have implanted these cells yet (Madara after VotE's battle, before the transplant).

whyd you bother with this lol? your just confusing people. and you got left and right mixed up lol.

Yeah I realized and corrected. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Mr Hiru]

I don't think so. Madara needed both eyes in order for the Indra and Ashura mix to awaken Rinnegan in them. After the awakening of Rinnegan, both of them went to Nagato. So, the possibilty of a third Rinnegan is out of the window.

Though, I admit that the Left and Right symbolism is weird. Lol

The interesting question would be "how managed Madara to restore his blind eye".

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Hiru my man theres no need for you to waste time making threads to debunk minamoto theories. We all know hes full of crap.

Whenever someone proves him wrong with mangaphax or points out his mistakes and ignorance he ignores them.
If by some miracle he replys he only repeats Tobidara nonsense or says some other irrelevant crap. Its just a waste of time.

 

[Rohan]

The interesting question would be "how managed Madara to restore his blind eye".

This is something I posted a few times before :-

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Perhaps Madara put Izuna's MS power as a placeholder by using the above logic ?

It would explain why Madara lost. The power of his EMS went on decreasing over time leading to his defeat against Hashirama.

He switched his eyes. He used his own original eyes, used Izanagi to obtain Hashi DNA, then switched his eyes to Izuna's and obtained Rinnegan. His remaining Left original eye was destroyed when Obito used Izanagi.

To me, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Mr Hiru]

To me, it makes a lot of sense.

For me, it doesn't. If it were the case, Madara would not be showing two EMS, but only one EMS, and Izuna's MS, triggering the awakening of only one Rinnegan.

 

[Rohan]

For me, it doesn't. If it were the case, Madara would not be showing two EMS, but only one EMS, and Izuna's MS, triggering the awakening of only one Rinnegan.

It went something like this :-

Madara had Izuna's eyes.

As, such, he had the power of both his and Izuna's MS which combined to form EMS.

Before the battle, he creates a failsafe.

He switches to his original eyes and uses Izuna's MS power as a placeholder in both eyes.

The power of his EMS (Madara MS and Placeholder Izuna MS) fades over time and leads to his defeat.

Some time later, he triggers Izanagi via his original Right eye and destroys it.

He then switches back to Izuna's eyes and awakens Rinnegan.

 

[Mr Hiru]

It went something like this :-

Madara had Izuna's eyes.

As, such, he had the power of both his and Izuna's MS which combined to form EMS.

Before the battle, he creates a failsafe.

He switches to his original eyes and uses Izuna's MS power as a placeholder in both eyes.

The power of his EMS (Madara MS and Placeholder Izuna MS) fades over time and leads to his defeat.

Some time later, he triggers Izanagi via his original Right eye and destroys it.

He then switches back to Izuna's eyes and awakens Rinnegan.

Izuna was not Indra's transmigrant, and Izuna's MS has only Izuna's chakra.

Rinnegan can only be awakened by Indra's and Ashura's chakra, as far as I know. So Rinnegan can exclusively be awakened by Madara's eyes.

Also, I don't believe EMS can be reverted to MS, can it?

 

[Rohan]

Izuna was not Indra's transmigrant, and Izuna's MS has only Izuna's chakra.

Rinnegan can only be awakened by Indra's and Ashura's chakra, as far as I know. So Rinnegan can exclusively be awakened by Madara's eyes.

Also, I don't believe EMS can be reverted to MS, can it?

Izuna's MS was a part of his EMS. I think that the EMS was important in the transition to Rinnegan, so it's possible that Madara needed it. But then again, Madara awakening Rinnegan with just MS seems logical.

I think EMS can be reverted to MS if the host re-transplants his original eyes.

 

[Antichrist]

How is this ( Tobidara ) , its look like ( Tobi + Madara ) but I didn't understand what do you mean .

 

[dizzynaruto]

How is this ( Tobidara ) , its look like ( Tobi + Madara ) but I didn't understand what do you mean .

It's a fairly well-known theory on the boards, I'm sure you can find it. And Tobidara= Tobi+Madara

 

[Angelic.]

How is this ( Tobidara ) , its look like ( Tobi + Madara ) but I didn't understand what do you mean .

its an infamous fanfic by minamoto who hates obito. he admitted today he makes stuff up

 

[Antichrist]

its an infamous fanfic by minamoto who hates obito. he admitted today he makes stuff up

I wanted to say ( who ) instead ( how ) . But still I didn't understand what is this ( Tobidara ) can you explain to me in a simple way .