Edo Hiruzen vs Kakuzu

[Zexion~]

Lol, depth? The only thing that makes them special is that they don't look like the regular elemental blasts, hence they affect hit targets differently. Doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen's Elemental Jutsu take a giant shit on Kakuzu's due to his scale.

And don't say "Size doesn't matter" cause the manga disagrees with you. The bigger an elemental attack (Like HIruzen's or Kakuzu's) the stronger. Nor is Kakashi's Raikiri an excuse for you to say that Kakuzu's jutsu aren't worthless in front of Hiruzen. Kakuzu's jutsu are NO WHERE near the scale of Hiruzen's jutsu, not even close.


Lol, so you are telling me Hiruzen is going to lose, because you believe he won't use his elemental jutsu to counter based on nothing but assumptions? Lmao. If Kakuzu uses his Fuuton and Katon combo, Hiruzen makes clones and does the same thing..Kakuzu doesn't have special method, he simply fires them off at the same time. Nothing else.

Everytime Kakuzu uses an element, Hiruzen counters with its Bijuu+ sized counter element, which plows right through and obliterates the mask who used it.

Hiruzen wins mid diff.



Pretty sure someone already debunked this.

Why would you counter my first post :|

Anyways Kakashi's Raikiri Absorbed and countered a jutsu much larger then it :| IS what i posted the scan for...I don't see how that doesn't prove my point?

Your only argument is based on scale? When its been shown multiple times in the manga that the users mastery of an element is the true measure of how strong it is :|

Anyways like I said Later on if Kakuzu returns the masks to his body, he'll be a walking counter for Hiruzen Any Jutsu fired at Kakuzu gets immediately countered.... Theres no way around that unless youre just going to sit there and wank "Scale and Size" Kakuzu's Raiton is on Par with Raikiri no way around that it would most likely slice right through the pitiful Raiton Hiruzen uses U_U

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

Even if Hiruzen has larger elemental attacks; Kakuzu can actually mix his elemental attacks together in order to increase its quality. E.g: Katon and Futon. All Kakuzu needs to do is merge with his masks, and mix his own elements to overpower Hiruzen's.​

As if Hiruzen cant do the same and mix katon jutsu with fuuton using two clones

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Seeing as how Hiruzen lacks regeneration in this match-up, Kakuzu catches him via threads: [

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], and kill him

Hiruzen's larger than human shurikens and adamantine staff tear apart the threads easily

 

[Benjamin King]

As if Hiruzen cant do the same and mix katon jutsu with fuuton using two clones

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No feats.​

Hiruzen's larger than human shurikens and adamantine staff tear apart the threads easily

Kakuzu's elemental attacks tear off Hiruzen's shurikens and Admantine staff.​

this is already debunked.whatever Kakuzu does is cancelled in a larger scale by hiruzen.threads cant affect hiruzen he is too fast.

Not sure what people refer by ''scale''. Hiruzen's elemental size were around Kakuzu's.​

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

No feats.​

Spoiler

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Everyone can mix them it if they have a katon jutsu and a fuuton jutsu, its not kekkai genkai where you have to be born with the abilities to mix elements
one clone uses a katon jutsu while the other mixes fuuton jutsu in it, just like the masks do

the link tells exactly that

Kakuzu's elemental attacks tear off Hiruzen's shurikens and Admantine staff.​

its threads vs shurikens/adamantine staff

hiruzen neutralizes elemental attacks or overpowers them as people have been saying for two pages

 

[WolfHaley]

Hiruzen has stronger element feats than Kakuzu. His five clones can use every element interchangeably and Kakuzu can't.

Dunno

This is essentially putting a character up against a weaker version of themselves. Three guesses for who wins.

 

[NightGuy]

Give an alive Hiruzen. Edo doesn't benefit him nearly at all.

 

[Benjamin King]

Spoiler

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Everyone can mix them it if they have a katon jutsu and a fuuton jutsu, its not kekkai genkai where you have to be born with the abilities to mix elements
one clone uses a katon jutsu while the other mixes fuuton jutsu in it, just like the masks do

the link tells exactly that

Then the force of their attacks puts out each other.​

its threads vs shurikens/adamantine staff

hiruzen neutralizes elemental attacks or overpowers them as people have been saying for two pages

Raikiri needed to cut the threads. Shuriken will fail, as it has no Chakra to power it up. The staff has no cutting power, so it wont do anything.

No such thing as ''neutralizes''. It's fan-fiction and doesn't exist.​

 

[Zexion~]

Do people not realize Kakuzu can do so much more with his elements then Hiruzen can though?

 

[WolfHaley]

Doesn't make one sliver of a difference what he can do, at the end of the day Hiruzen has feats, capability, and versatility - a head and shoulders more than Kakuzu has. Each mask is countered by their weaker element, if they try to strike it out alone. If they try to team up: Hiruzen counters just like Yamato and Naruto in cannon. And we are being generous by not even striking off Kakuzu because he doesn't even have feats for two of the masks, not to mention Hiruzen can make many more than just four simple clones.

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[Zexion~]

Doesn't make one sliver of a difference what he can do, at the end of the day Hiruzen has feats, capability, and versatility - a head and shoulders more than Kakuzu has. Each mask is countered by their weaker element, if they try to strike it out alone. If they try to team up: Hiruzen counters just like Yamato and Naruto in cannon. And we are being generous by not even striking off Kakuzu because he doesn't even have feats for two of the masks, not to mention Hiruzen can make many more than just four simple clones.

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Hiruzen may have the offensive edge But Kakuzu's defensive abilities with the masks in located in his body, Is just near impossible for him to overcome? Honestly I want one person to propose a way Hiruzen gets by this

 

[WolfHaley]

Kakuzu's defence gets decimated by Hiruzen's superior Jutsu. Honestly, I want you to actually consider what people are saying to you instead of ignoring points. Even if we discount the complete and utter Elemental Jutsu superiority, the Kage Bushin Sausage fest; Hiruzen's speed that kept up with Tobirama, along with Enma - who forced Kurama out of the village - would be enough to sequentially squash Kakuzu's masks, considering Chouji crushed them in his small form.

That's ignoring the ridiculous hype of knowing all Jutsu in Konoha, which by that logic gives him the Raikiri, shadow possession Jutsu, Rekia no Jutsu, expansion Jutsu, etc. Enough to take him easily.

 

[Zexion~]

Kakuzu's defence gets decimated by Hiruzen's superior Jutsu. Honestly, I want you to actually consider what people are saying to you instead of ignoring points. Even if we discount the complete and utter Elemental Jutsu superiority, the Kage Bushin Sausage fest; Hiruzen's speed that kept up with Tobirama, along with Enma - who forced Kurama out of the village - would be enough to sequentially squash Kakuzu's masks, considering Chouji crushed them in his small form.

That's ignoring the ridiculous hype of knowing all Jutsu in Konoha, which by that logic gives him the Raikiri, shadow possession Jutsu, Rekia no Jutsu, expansion Jutsu, etc. Enough to take him easily.

Tell me to acknowledge what people are saying to me then go on to saying that featless hype is how he wins? Lml Hence why i don't listen to people, especially not you're ignorant ass XD

 

[Bantos]

Probably Hiruzen since he has that raiton.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why would you counter my first post :|

Cause, depending on who you debate with, your points could shift and be altered based on what they present. Its better to start from the beginning.

Anyways Kakashi's Raikiri Absorbed and countered a jutsu much larger then it :| IS what i posted the scan for...I don't see how that doesn't prove my point?

That proves that Raikiri is able to stalemate Gian, not that Kakuzu's elemental jutsu are stronger than Hiruzen's. Not to mention Raikiri isn't an elemental stream, its a high concentration of Raiton charged on the user's hand. It doesn't need to be large to be strong given how it works. Kakuzu and Hiruzen's jutsu disagree.

Even if you had a point, Using ANOTHER jutsu as your evidence that Kakuzu's Jutsu beat Hiruzen's is a weak ass argument. Not to mention Gian is only longer than Raikiri since its fired in a beam, if you look at its actual size, and factor out the length, which is irrelevant to power, it wasn't even that much larger than Rakiri, which again, is highly condensed Lightning.

Your only argument is based on scale? When its been shown multiple times in the manga that the users mastery of an element is the true measure of how strong it is :|

Yes, as that is the only argument needed here. You have no evidence that Kakuzu's jutsu are stronger, not when they are far smaller. The only thing special about them is how they affect the enemy or the landscape, not their overall power.

-Someone could master Fireball Jutsu, would it be on the scale of Madara's Katon? Lmao, no. The bold has not been shown.

Anyways like I said Later on if Kakuzu returns the masks to his body, he'll be a walking counter for Hiruzen Any Jutsu fired at Kakuzu gets immediately countered.... Theres no way around that unless youre just going to sit there and wank "Scale and Size" Kakuzu's Raiton is on Par with Raikiri no way around that it would most likely slice right through the pitiful Raiton Hiruzen uses U_U

When you can get evidence for your claims, then we can talk, until then you are merely giving me your opinion, which is baseless, bias and invalid. If Kakuzu does that, Hiruzen rapes with his SUPERIOR elemental combo. The only wank going on here is you claiming Kakuzu's jutsu are stronger based on....absolutely nothing. I'm not going to throw out "scale" two of the biggest factors in the strength of moves, especially elemental attacks, based on your opinion.

Lol Hiruzen poops on him.

 

[Zexion~]

Cause, depending on who you debate with, your points could shift and be altered based on what they present. Its better to start from the beginning.


That proves that Raikiri is able to stalemate Gian, not that Kakuzu's elemental jutsu are stronger than Hiruzen's. Not to mention Raikiri isn't an elemental stream, its a high concentration of Raiton charged on the user's hand. It doesn't need to be large to be strong given how it works. Kakuzu and Hiruzen's jutsu disagree.

Even if you had a point, Using ANOTHER jutsu as your evidence that Kakuzu's Jutsu beat Hiruzen's is a weak ass argument. Not to mention Gian is only longer than Raikiri since its fired in a beam, if you look at its actual size, and factor out the length, which is irrelevant to power, it wasn't even that much larger than Rakiri, which again, is highly condensed Lightning.


Yes, as that is the only argument needed here. You have no evidence that Kakuzu's jutsu are stronger, not when they are far smaller. The only thing special about them is how they affect the enemy or the landscape, not their overall power.

-Someone could master Fireball Jutsu, would it be on the scale of Madara's Katon? Lmao, no. The bold has not been shown.



When you can get evidence for your claims, then we can talk, until then you are merely giving me your opinion, which is baseless, bias and invalid. If Kakuzu does that, Hiruzen rapes with his SUPERIOR elemental combo. The only wank going on here is you claiming Kakuzu's jutsu are stronger based on....absolutely nothing. I'm not going to throw out "scale" two of the biggest factors in the strength of moves, especially elemental attacks, based on your opinion.

Lol Hiruzen poops on him.

Bruh

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Ughhhhh Way to lazy to get all his scans but his jutsu are far from small,

But so if all you had to say is size wins all why make this matchup?

HIRUZENS ATTACKS MAY NOT EVEN BE COMPLEX JUTSU, They are merely streams of elements..... With not much chakra needed mostly...Comparing it to Madara's is pathetic? Honestly Hiruzen's jutsu aren't that bigger then Kakuzu and IF you actually factor in the length which means they would actually be able to clash for much longer then Hiruzens its not far fetched at all.


Also if the element is weaker then the opposing element size doesn't matter at all...... So again kakuzu can easily last for an ext long time merely countering the jutsu with his weak spots when all masks are in one body. Not to mention his Domu tanks the Fuuton and Katon U_U

Honestly if Gian is on par with piercing and electric power as Raikiri which is said to slice lightning bolts....Why can't you even contemplate the fact that Gian would rip right through Hiruzens Clunky Raiton. Theres such thing as condensed chakra you know >.>

 

[Braiyan]

Hiruzen rapes. He can stalemate the masks' elemental blasts with blasts of his own thanks to shadow clones, and even overpower them by countering each blast with their weakness (therefore he would counter fire with water, lightning with wind, and so on). Since he has shown no offensive feats with Dotons or Suitons that means Hiruzen has two extra clones to fire off blasts with. That also means two extra Raitons/Suitons/Fuutons that Kakuzu can't account for. Thus two of the masks will get overpowered and destroyed no matter what Kakuzu does, and Hiruzen can just simply overwhelm Kakuzu and the remaining two masks using the same strategy.

 

[KidGamer65]

Bruh

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Ughhhhh Way to lazy to get all his scans but his jutsu are far from small,

I know they aren't small, they are just small compared to Hiruzen's.

But so if all you had to say is size wins all why make this matchup?

To see why people think whoever wins. Just like why every single Vs thread is made.

HIRUZENS ATTACKS MAY NOT EVEN BE COMPLEX JUTSU, They are merely streams of elements..... With not much chakra needed mostly...Comparing it to Madara's is pathetic? Honestly Hiruzen's jutsu aren't that bigger then Kakuzu and IF you actually factor in the length which means they would actually be able to clash for much longer then Hiruzens its not far fetched at all.

When will you understand that complexity ISN'T strength.

Lel, who compared it to Madara's? Its called an analogy. You claimed that mastery is the power of every elemental jutsu, which is clearly false. The analogy shows that.

Lol, what? Those dots there? Those are people. [

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] compared to the size and length of Hiruzen's jutsu. Kakuzu's Jutsu barely reach the height of trees. The width of his

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is nothing compared to Hiruzen's.

Also if the element is weaker then the opposing element size doesn't matter at all...... So again kakuzu can easily last for an ext long time merely countering the jutsu with his weak spots when all masks are in one body. Not to mention his Domu tanks the Fuuton and Katon U_U

Elemental Weakness is no factor here, not when Hiruzen can mix his elemental jutsu together just like he can, and even if Domu tanks the Katon and Fuuton, the Raiton which will follow any counter from Hiruzen, will wreck him.

Honestly if Gian is on par with piercing and electric power as Raikiri which is said to slice lightning bolts....Why can't you even contemplate the fact that Gian would rip right through Hiruzens Clunky Raiton. Theres such thing as condensed chakra you know >.>

Cause you have no evidence for your claims, none at all. Raikiri being used to counter it doesn't give you an argument. Elemental Jutsu like Kakuzu's have shown to rely on SCALE when it comes to overall strength, and Hiruzen's scale is superior.

 

[Zexion~]

Gian can't counter the Raiton? That honestly Isn't even that big? Wow i completely thought they were bigger

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Kakuzu's towered over tree's that even half of them made the humans look like ants

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There's a reason you cant even see the shinobi in the scan,

And the raiton which follows after Kakuzu uses Domu will be countered by Kakuzu's fuuton :|

 

[MickNerks]

IMO Hiruzen takes this, he is far more versatile than kakuzu

 

[WolfHaley]

Tell me to acknowledge what people are saying to me then go on to saying that featless hype is how he wins? Lml Hence why i don't listen to people, especially not you're ignorant ass XD

I've been pretty explicit with how he wins. You mean to tell me that you're unwilling to believe in his hype, when he was able to casually replicate Zetsu's ninjutsu after only seeing the seal once? That's sharingan level stuff, not really a thing you can contest.