It is relevant. You don't see people saying:
Zabuza can beat Tobirama
Darui can beat minato
Kitsuchi can beat tsunade
It's irrelevant because kakashi even with 3t is kage lvl.
That's because often its crazy to believe a jonin can defeat a hokage.
yet naruto and sasuke crap on God's despite being ranked genin. Or zabuza can attempt to assassinate kage's and live despite being jounin.
By suggesting a watered down verision of himself could beat him because he possesses the shraingan, is underestimating him. I have also seen things such as sakura can defeat him, sasori can defeat him, ect, ect. There is a lot of members who underestimate him because of his age alone, and don't consider her feats/abilities.
Watered down? Lmao. Just because kakashi doesn't have all 5 elements doesn't mean he's watered down, especially since by feats kakashi is more proficient in the elements he does know than hiruzen.
A) Hiruzen is also a master at reading handseals, without a sharingan!! Don't forget than he read the Shinsenju's handseals and performed then exact same techniques simultaneously.
and what speed feats does the shinju have when it comes to making seals ?
Also, he had only seen minato use the death demon once and also was also able to identify it, and later he was able to use it himself.
speculation at its finest. At that point in time Minato didn't have the chance to tell hiruzen that only the summoner can see the death God. Yet when hiruzen performed it he already had that knowledge. This leaves two conclusions
a)minato taught it to him prior to the incident(especially since he was able to recognize it)
B) he did an in depth analysis after the incident.
B) Though Hiruzen's techniques do originate from konoha, except the ones he invented himself, he unlike kakashi has mastered all 5 elements. Which kakashi himself admits takes years. Even if he can copy hiruzens seals, if it is a nature he doesn't possess he wont be able to use it.
since he has the sharingan he will read hiruzen's seals before hiruzen competes it, knowing what tech he does before he does it. Thus if he has the nature( or doesn't) he will act preemptively before hiruzen.
C)It's a underestimation to believe that Hiruzen (the hokage of the hidden leaf) could so easily be hypnotized by a 3t sharingan.
wasn't he put under bringer of darkness in his first on screen fight? Besides. How does being kage grant immunity? Killer b is a perfect jin yet got caught in the 3t.
It happened to orochimaru like nothing on multiple occasions. Yet it can't happen to hiruzen?
Do you believe he is really that novice a shinobi against a sharingan. Had this been the case why had danzo not simply hypnotized hiruzen or used kotoamaterasu to permantely gain control of the village. Even itachi could have manipulated him if that was the case, but it never happen. Im not saying it would be impossible, but to think a novice sharingan user such as kakashi could hypnotize a master in the art of shinobi combat is super insulting.
calling kakashi a novice is the insult. Guy was forced to create an entire fighting style just to combat kakashi's genjutsu prowess. Itachi the genjutsu master hailed his sharingan mastery and held it at a level above that of standard uchiha. He stalemated against obito a genjustu master that held perfect jins under it for years. As for the whole danzo/itachi thing there in the leaf a hyuuga would see hiruzen's disturbed chakra and hell would break loose.
And hiruzen has far more experience in battle than kakashi.
based on what? They both fought in multiple wars, kakashi is well known and respected even by anbu, and for the past year and change kakashI went up against jin's, rinne users,sharingan users, and s-rank ninja.
And thus far it is only opinion who is a better strategist. Hiruzen has shown intellectual moments and also has the nickname of the professor to back it up. kakashi has his moments as well.
I guess.
I was only referring to his ability to just use a counter jutsu or element to kakashi's.
kakashi doesn't pull out big jutsu if he doesn't have to and the only times he does is when he's covering for others or using it to his advantage. Other wise its casually sidestepped/ducked.
Hiruzen is superior to kakashi in taijutsu. Kakashi has a 4.5, Hiruzen has a 5 + plus enma.
don't bring up the 300 chapter outdated databook. Kakashi is faster than him and stronger than him, and sharingan.(which databook doesn't account for ) kakashi out classes him.
Though his sharingan can read his movements, if he doesn't have the reaction to eveade then it doesn't matter. Having 8 arms and legs coming at you at once (Hiruzen + Enma), even if kakashi can see it, wont mean he can dodge in time.
kakashi reacted to multiple v2 jins, obito, itachi, pain, and the hidan/kakuzu combo. Heck in the last chapter he identified that the lava wasn't genjutsu, pulled out two kunai and a scroll, tied the scroll to one and threw it into the ceiling as an anchor, used the other to pin obito to the wall, and caught sakura all while they were falling
without sharingan. Hiruzen and his monkey isn't a problem.
He can hold enma just fine, he was able to easily outclass orochimaru (sasuke's bukijutsu teacher) with enma and disarm him. Hiruzen only made a comment that enma was heavier that he remembered, but not that it was unwieldable.
It being heavier is something kakashi will take advantage of not to mention kakashi's raikiri having greater piercing power than the grasscutter sword.
Id just like to point out that all of these instances were against one opponent. Hiruzen can not only clone himself but also clone enma, which CAN overwhelm him.
proof that he could clone his summon? Besides hiruzen isn't the only clone user(and kakashi is far more proficient in it) not to mention hiruzen's small pool of chakra to work with.
