One question for Itachi fans

[P3ĮÑ]

Most NB'rs don't know what hyperboles and NLF are, so I'll just leave it here.

NLF - the common no limits fallacy

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."

The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.

hyperbole

Hyperbole is a term that refers to statements made in a particular work of fiction that are exaggerations of the actual truth of the matter. Often hyperboles are used as evidence in debates, and it can be very difficult to tell if a statement is hyperbole or not. A general rule is that if a claim is made that is completely out of league of anything ever shown in said universe (for example, if someone claimed to be a planetbuster in a verse where the strongest feats were citybuster), it's probably hyperbole. In universes with a wide range of characters on different tiers of power (such as Marvel and DC), this has to be evaluated on an individual character basis, instead of on the verse as a whole. For example, if someone in One Piece claimed they could destroy an island, it's reasonable to consider it a possibility, since other people in the verse have done comparable things (of course it still has to be evaluated based on the feats and powerscaling of the actual character). On the other hand, if someone said Spider-Man could destroy a star, it's not reasonable to think this is true despite the fact that Herald level characters and above in Marvel have done so, because Spider-Man is established as being on a lower tier than such characters.

 

[raiban]

[video=youtube;eyKBVaD_tPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyKBVaD_tPU[/video]

Yata mirror was meant to be the ultimate defense. In the episode Sasuke struck the mirror with his sword, the mirror didn't just push back the impact, but it sent back an additional force to shoot Sasuke away from it. For those of you who do not understand how this is important I will put it scientifically simple. In order to negate a force there has to be an equal and opposite reactive force. When 2 equal forces collide it will cause both of them to come to a halt, but in order for it to launch Sasuke away from the mirror, then the opposing force applied would have to be greater. Zetsu also states that the weapon is spiritual, so it follows its own guidelines as well as the writer's. Even though Zetsu does not state that it couldn't be broken, it is suggested because in order for something to break either "magic" or a greater force would have to be applied, which is impossible with the mirror's purpose. Superman could punch the mirror as many times and as hard as he wants, but the mirror will not break and he will his body will have to be able to take the greater force being sent back to him.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

aside from the solutions you provided, i would dare say Sups breaks the Yata mirror along with every single bone in Itachi's body hmm

invincible/unbreakable is just a fancy way of saying he's/it's tough (not absolute) but, when you bring a MASSIVE power to NV like Superman's then the rules change.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Most NB'rs don't know what hyperboles and NLF are, so I'll just leave it here.

NLF - the common no limits fallacy

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."

The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.

hyperbole

Hyperbole is a term that refers to statements made in a particular work of fiction that are exaggerations of the actual truth of the matter. Often hyperboles are used as evidence in debates, and it can be very difficult to tell if a statement is hyperbole or not. A general rule is that if a claim is made that is completely out of league of anything ever shown in said universe (for example, if someone claimed to be a planetbuster in a verse where the strongest feats were citybuster), it's probably hyperbole. In universes with a wide range of characters on different tiers of power (such as Marvel and DC), this has to be evaluated on an individual character basis, instead of on the verse as a whole. For example, if someone in One Piece claimed they could destroy an island, it's reasonable to consider it a possibility, since other people in the verse have done comparable things (of course it still has to be evaluated based on the feats and powerscaling of the actual character). On the other hand, if someone said Spider-Man could destroy a star, it's not reasonable to think this is true despite the fact that Herald level characters and above in Marvel have done so, because Spider-Man is established as being on a lower tier than such characters.

Idiots on NB won't understand what you're trying to say, they have no idea about Marvel, DC or any other multiverse (many don't even know about DBZ, some say Itachi beat Whis from BoG). They fail to understand that a universe where top characters haven't destroyed anything bigger than continent, a weaker character doesn't stand a chance of surviving universal level attacks. I can't comprehend the level of audacity they display when they claim Itachi can tank superman's attacks. Just shows their level of knowledge

 

[Joseph Gomes]

aside from the solutions you provided, i would dare say Sups breaks the Yata mirror along with every single bone in Itachi's body hmm

invincible/unbreakable is just a fancy way of saying he's/it's tough (not absolute) but, when you bring a MASSIVE power to NV like Superman's then the rules change.

Itachi fans need to look up on multiversal debates and how feats work for characters. When they portray Itachi like a universal level character I feel like leaving the base. At first I thought that they're trolling, but later it appeared that some of them are truly serious

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Idiots on NB won't understand what you're trying to say, they have no idea about Marvel, DC or any other multiverse (many don't even know about DBZ, some say Itachi beat Whis from BoG). They fail to understand that a universe where top characters haven't destroyed anything bigger than continent, a weaker character doesn't stand a chance of surviving universal level attacks. I can't comprehend the level of audacity they display when they claim Itachi can tank superman's attacks. Just shows their level of knowledge

When I arrived here to seek a new nardo forum after NF, the versus battles on NB killed me, where your average debater thinks via powerscaling itachi's Yata resists all attacks, which includes atomisation and reality warping well, if it's a crossoverses debate, and! I here by aver the authors words! you can't deny it homie "kishi words, denying manga, how ignoramus of yu, lulz derp" and the prime example which can be applied here is simple, now going by NB's logic of the "ohh so impervious Yata" I fail to see the fact how itachi can even counter a punch which can grab galaxies (Anit spiral-STTGL from guren Lagan can throw galaxies, he's broken) and is above 50+ million (or billion? I don't remember) light years tall, can counter the dudes punch, I'd cry tears of laughter if anyone even audaciously stated his punch is meaningless against Yata.

I remember a guy saying his Sheild is of omnipotence level, he was a troll, or not, idk, but he was being reasoned with, Gawd I was done.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Itachi fans need to look up on multiversal debates and how feats work for characters. When they portray Itachi like a universal level character I feel like leaving the base. At first I thought that they're trolling, but later it appeared that some of them are truly serious

i'm a huge Itachi fan (second favorite in this series) but, i think you take this stuff too seriously bro.

people who say stuff like that can't be serious, they are either trolling or have zero knowledge of characters from other comic's/Manga's/Anime's.

 

[raiban]

Idiots on NB won't understand what you're trying to say, they have no idea about Marvel, DC or any other multiverse (many don't even know about DBZ, some say Itachi beat Whis from BoG). They fail to understand that a universe where top characters haven't destroyed anything bigger than continent, a weaker character doesn't stand a chance of surviving universal level attacks. I can't comprehend the level of audacity they display when they claim Itachi can tank superman's attacks. Just shows their level of knowledge

The question at hand was if Itachi's Yata Mirror could take a punch from Superman, that has already been answered with a yes. If Itachi was brought in an actual fight with Superman, an actual battle to the death, then Superman would win. Reason being is that Yata Mirror only protects wherever the user wants it with the price of everything behind the mirror being open, and Superman would literally shatter a Susanoo. It would be an unfair fight seeing as how Superman is on the universal level and Itachi is only on the superhuman level with certain wizards and superhumans of the sort. Very few people on that level can contend with Superman, one of which being his trump Batman who outsmarts him.

 

[Remedy]

That wasn't his strongest, his strongest is prime, which created his own universe and spent 15,000 in the sun, considered on of the most strongest characters in DC I believe, being nigh omnipotent. He wrecks Yata no diff.

And yeah, I'm sure the next thing here would be how Yata deflects against super toppa tengen guren lagans punches, his striking strenght is above galaxy level in DC, so yeah, in profundity, the obvious no limit fallacy will continue to apply here, how whimsical.

My mistake, you're right. That version of Superman smacked around the whole Green Lantern core, I would trumph the defense of their rings over Yata.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

i'm a huge Itachi fan (second favorite in this series) but, i think you take this stuff too seriously bro.

people who say stuff like that can't be serious, they are either trolling or have zero knowledge of characters from other comic's/Manga's/Anime's.

I don't want to be rude, but if a person doesn't intend to be a troll, then he/she should refrain from commenting about other characters/multiverses which they know nothing about. How can somebody have a debate when all the information you have is from database and a single statement? I don't mind trolls at all, I can handle trolls and I troll myself quite often. But many (not all) Itachi fans on NB are not trolls, they genuinely believe what they say. It's astonishing how they apply databook claims and empty statements to battles, and sometimes say that Itachi can defend against people who can shatter dimensions in 1 blow

 

[AlphaScythian]

Kishi says it tanks all that dares to trespass it

 

[Joseph Gomes]

The question at hand was if Itachi's Yata Mirror could take a punch from Superman, that has already been answered with a yes. If Itachi was brought in an actual fight with Superman, an actual battle to the death, then Superman would win. Reason being is that Yata Mirror only protects wherever the user wants it with the price of everything behind the mirror being open, and Superman would literally shatter a Susanoo. It would be an unfair fight seeing as how Superman is on the universal level and Itachi is only on the superhuman level with certain wizards and superhumans of the sort. Very few people on that level can contend with Superman, one of which being his trump Batman who outsmarts him.

No, Yata Mirror can't take a punch from Superman. I know you're not trolling, but things don't go by databooks or statements, rather credible feats. Superman would definitely beat Itachi in a battle, but this is not a battle thread. In OP I clearly mentioned that Itachi has Yata Mirror activated by default, and superman can only target Yata Mirror, to test the the upper limit of Yata Mirror. Seeing the extent of power shown in Narutoverse, it's obvious that everything said about Yata Mirror is nothing but exaggeration

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

I don't want to be rude, but if a person doesn't intend to be a troll, then he/she should refrain from commenting about other characters/multiverses which they know nothing about. How can somebody have a debate when all the information you have is from database and a single statement? I don't mind trolls at all, I can handle trolls and I troll myself quite often. But many (not all) Itachi fans on NB are not trolls, they genuinely believe what they say. It's astonishing how they apply databook claims and empty statements to battles, and sometimes say that Itachi can defend against people who can shatter dimensions in 1 blow

if you keep doing this then you will get some serious health problems after a while on this base lol.
advice (for your own sake) : when you see people using crazy/invalid/limited logic to prove a point, IGNORE THEM.

 

[Narutofan4203]

Kishi says it tanks all that dares to trespass it

Superman was also called omnipotent. So I guess the god of islam, hebrew/christianity, and hindu are equal to superman and the One above all, amirite? All of this based on the fact that the author said it.. These kids are retarded.

 

[Koro]

God, these databook-head pseudo-intellectuals are so dumb.. So it blocks all physical attacks.. okay? There are no feats backing this. It says Sasuke has god-level speed. It also says sasuke was undefeatable and no member in the akatsuki could match-up to him. The databook is HIGHLY irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the author says it or not, it doesn't make it true. There are NO feats of it being able to even remotely do this, the only thing it "tanked" was Orochimaru's multi-city block level 8 headed dragon attack. The databook states amaterasu is as hot as the sun, but not only has everyone in the vicinity of the attack been completely immune, a samurai got burned by amaterasu and he was not only fine, they were able to remove the armor from him. It didn't even melt the steel. Yeah, hot as the sun. Second of all, you people know little to nothing about superman. I'd say maybe from the replies in this thread, you people may have read a few golden-age comics or seen a few 2000-era movies of a city block level superman. Third, you guys know NOTHING about multiversal debates. This is why the versus colosseum of this website is so terribly and undeniably weak.

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Did this one with a punch

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These are just simple feats. Using the users of this threads failure "logic", one in marvel or DC comics who has the striking strength to move a galaxy, or someone from anime like the Anti-Spiral or Gurren Lagann who simply shurikens galaxies, cannot destroy Itachi's yata mirror, simply because of an irrelevant, 7 year old hyperbole from a databook that contradicts itself and is validated just because "the creator said so." You people cannot debate, nor are you anywhere close to winning this one. Kill yourselves.

Welp! It looks like that psuedo-intellectual "Waltz" just got solo'd xD

 

[raiban]

My mistake, you're right. That version of Superman smacked around the whole Green Lantern core, I would trumph the defense of their rings over Yata.

The constructs are made from the rings, and in some cases the constructs are strengthened by their will power. The only things that break these constructs are other lights, the entities of that spectrum, and sheer force. Now seeing the sight of Superman ready to go H.A.M on you because you're wearing a green ring would make anyone have a mental breakdown and cry, except the Joker. The constructs were made with the weakness of being broken by sheer force and the sort, but the mirror was made with the intent to deflect any incoming force. Not saying Itachi would win, but I'm saying the mirror won't be broken.

 

[Narutofan4203]

The constructs are made from the rings, and in some cases the constructs are strengthened by their will power. The only things that break these constructs are other lights, the entities of that spectrum, and sheer force. Now seeing the sight of Superman ready to go H.A.M on you because you're wearing a green ring would make anyone have a mental breakdown and cry, except the Joker. The constructs were made with the weakness of being broken by sheer force and the sort, but the mirror was made with the intent to deflect any incoming force. Not saying Itachi would win, but I'm saying the mirror won't be broken.

LOL! Are you kidding me? NOTHING of the mirror that has been stated has been shown through feats. My son, you seem to be new to this, so let me explain this to you. Multiversal debates are based off of feats. Nothing more, nothing less. You cannot base debates off of a No Limits Fallacy and Hyperbole. The no limits fallacy is just because something shows no limit, then it has none. Because it really has shown none of the durability feats it has claimed to have, it has none. Essentially, you and waltz are saying it's durability is infinitum due to this fact. No. Second, hyperbole. Hyperbole is used for exaggeration of strength and power of something. The databook is based completely on hyperbole. The databook states preta path can absorb all chakra based attacks when there are insane things like the Juubi's island level tailed beast ball and all it tanked was a mountain level rasengan. The databook says sasuke is undefeatable and has god-like speed, and god-like speed in regards to fiction is faster than light to such a level where one can cross the universe. All of this falls under hyperbole. It is not true because the author says it. Superman has been called omnipotent, when he is not even a nigh-omnipotent, shows no signs of reality warping, etc. Pre-retcon beyonder was called god, but then The One Above All appears. You seem to get my drift?

Ad Ignorantiam, one of the more common, unsightly fallacies. Here's a suggestion: Instead of making rhetoric, fallacious posts...construct a weighty one which is canonical supported and discredits what the Manga and Databook dictates about Yata-no-Kagami. ​

Yet you haven't provided any canonical material discrediting Yata's capabilities which were supported by both the Manga and Databook sides personal feeling and conjecture. Essentially, you're just in denial. ​

God, this pseudo-intellectual. You're claiming of us to be using fallacies, yet you've done nothing but do it yourself. And I see because your post is so low in content and demand, you have no argument backing this yourself. You have yet to show where this is canonically supported. Just a fallacious, disproved hyperbole, that is outdated (by 7 years), and phenomenal. Like I said, you seem to be new to this. Let me dry this out for you kid. Multiversal debates are based solely on feats. The author can say anything. Kishimoto said in the databook amaterasu was as hot as the sun.. no? The sun's surface is 10,000 fahrenheit. If something like that was to be let out on earth.. it would kill everyone for the span of at least 20 miles, but this is all basic 7th grade science, which I presume you took. The funny thing? It didn't even burn a samurai's armor completely~! What is canonically supported though, you may ask? The only thing yata mirror has tanked was a multi-city block level attack from Orochimaru. Endof.

 

[Koro]

That Waltz guy's gonna' post a 10 story wall of text; just watch xD

 

[Waltz]

God, these databook-head pseudo-intellectuals are so dumb.. So it blocks all physical attacks.. okay? There are no feats backing this. It says Sasuke has god-level speed. It also says sasuke was undefeatable and no member in the akatsuki could match-up to him. The databook is HIGHLY irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the author says it or not, it doesn't make it true. There are NO feats of it being able to even remotely do this, the only thing it "tanked" was Orochimaru's multi-city block level 8 headed dragon attack. The databook states amaterasu is as hot as the sun, but not only has everyone in the vicinity of the attack been completely immune, a samurai got burned by amaterasu and he was not only fine, they were able to remove the armor from him. It didn't even melt the steel. Yeah, hot as the sun. Second of all, you people know little to nothing about superman. I'd say maybe from the replies in this thread, you people may have read a few golden-age comics or seen a few 2000-era movies of a city block level superman. Third, you guys know NOTHING about multiversal debates. This is why the versus colosseum of this website is so terribly and undeniably weak.

Pesudo-intellectuals xd then I'll entertain you, Narutfan4203.

Saying that the Databook is highly irrelevant only highlights that you're not only being biased but do not entirely understand the purpose of the Databook. Discrediting it because of a few hyperbole's is entirely erroneous on your part simply because for the greater part of what is written with the Databook it is not only credible contains relevant information about each character, jutsu, location, chakra, ect. Are all these elements 'false and irrelevant' as well? Certainly not yet they comprise of the majority of the DB. Here is where you fail on contradicting Yata's hype: Making inapplicable references to pit against the Shield's stated capabilities. "Hype" can only be discredited if what is portrayed conflicts with the hyperbole itself or a statement is made within the Manga that contradicts the Hyperbole. An example:

-> Hiruzen being the strongest of all
-> Sasuke's(version referenced in the databook) God-like speed
-> Sasuke (version referenced in the databook) is undefeatable by any Akasuki member.
-> Amaterasu being as hot as the sun.

The majority is cognizant that these are false due to the material presented in the Manga following these statements contradicting with and in most cases entirely discrediting them, however, it has been the contrary for Yata-no-Kagami. Thus far there has been nothing discrediting Yata-no-Kagami's capabilities as it has

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any attack attempting to breach it's defenses and

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it's properties to negate incoming offences. Your argument remains the same as the OP, an appeal to ignorance that

"Because Yata hasn't shown to block everything, it cant"

If applied says:

"Shisui can't use any Fire jutsu because he hasn't been shown to use any"
"A Mangekyo user like Izuna could not use Genjutsu because he hasn't been shown to use any"

ect.

Lastly, the Manga and story are Kishimoto's thus what ever he states is what it is.


​

These are just simple feats. Using the users of this threads failure "logic", one in marvel or DC comics who has the striking strength to move a galaxy, or someone from anime like the Anti-Spiral or Gurren Lagann who simply shurikens galaxies, cannot destroy Itachi's yata mirror, simply because of an irrelevant, 7 year old hyperbole from a databook that contradicts itself and is validated just because "the creator said so." You people cannot debate, nor are you anywhere close to winning this one. Kill yourselves.

Precisely so and I am aware of what superman is capabilities are but it makes no difference, when we are comparing a part-function Jutsu from the Naruto Manga to a DC character. It's only right and fair to give Yata-no-Kagami it's due credit that as many have already said: it was designed to negate all attacks and is the perfect Shield. However you are biased and only looking at the scenario from DC Comics standpoint. Since Superman's offences can be cross-referenced as a "physical attack" (something to which Yata negates) then he cannot destroy the shield.



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The no limits fallacy does not apply to Yata-no-Kagami since the entire concept of it negating all attacks because it is the history behind the shield, it's properties and how it functions. It was a shield designed to negate all attacks, whether physical, astral ect. It shouldn't even have been mentioned. An example of the no limits fallacy would be Gakido: [

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] ​

 

[Narutofan4203]

That Waltz guy's gonna' post a 10 story wall of text; just watch xD

I think I made him give up. There's nothing left for him to say that can redeem himself. He might be mad because he lost, though.