[Discussion] I feel the need to address this

[24 12 11 to troll]

People on here seem to think that Borsalino can defeat Isshou.

We don't know who is stronger, but regardless of this due to the nature of their Devil Fruits even if Isshou was fodder and Borsalino could blow up a planet using a Laser ; Isshou would win in a fight.

This fight is basically Light vs Gravity

Now, simple physics for you:

Gravity: A Force which contorts, pushes and pulls any matter or energy towards or away from a point.

Light: A form of Energy

Now the key things to take from these definitions are:
"contorts, pushes and pulls any matter or energy". This means that if Isshou uses his Devil Fruit, he can counter every laser. Every kick. And even mess with Borsalino if he resorts to his light form. He can probably ever contort the Yata no Kagami to move Kizaru to wherever he pleases.

Genuinely Gravity butt-****s Light. On a larger scale than the Nederlands 5-1 victory over Spain.

So basically from the start of this fight Borsalino is at a disadvantage because:
-He either doesn't use his fruit he depends on so dearly
-Or he uses the fruit and makes his demise evermore certain

I'm not saying one is stronger than the other. Simply that; logically Kizaru cannot beat Isshou.

Edit: Isshou can't see either. So Borsalino cannot resort to dissipating his senses. He won't be affected by light in terms of visuals, this alone removes a huge part of Borsalino's supplementary arsenal of moves

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I'd say they are most certainly on the same level, bot Borsalino is a little stronger for the simple fact he's had his Devil Fruit for longer.
You need to take into consideration even if Isshos fruit is capable of doing this stuff he has just got it.
He most likely would get beaten by Borsalino barely due to the fact he is inexperienced in it's usage.

 

[LogicnoJutsu]

Light is not affected by gravity unless its as intense as a Black hole, Only Blackbeard can defeat Kizaru (Natural counter)

Source: Simple Physics

 

[ToshiZO]

With this logic Fujitora beats almost everyone in the verse because Gravity > Everything. Gravity >Ice and Magma. Kizaru uses physical attacks just like the rest of the characters...its hardly the same as real world light....there is no such thing as a light kick.

 

[Gerkak]

Light is not affected by gravity unless its as intense as a Black hole, Only Blackbeard can defeat Kizaru

Source: Simple Physics

Are you sure?

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Light is affected by the gravity of heavenly bodies. The thing about blackholes is that light cannot escape from it once it comes into contact with its event horizon. This is the reason why we can't see black holes, we can only perceive its effects.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I'd say they are most certainly on the same level, bot Borsalino is a little stronger for the simple fact he's had his Devil Fruit for longer.
You need to take into consideration even if Isshos fruit is capable of doing this stuff he has just got it.
He most likely would get beaten by Borsalino barely due to the fact he is inexperienced in it's usage.

But if Borsalino cannot use his Devil fruit for anything other than defense (which he doesn't seem to have) then he's definitely not capable of fighting at full strength. He would need everything to defeat a fellow Admiral (if he even could...)

Light is not affected by gravity unless its as intense as a Black hole, Only Blackbeard can defeat Kizaru

Source: Simple Physics

The irony of your name... You really don't quite get the scope of Gravity

Light is always affected by gravity. It's why we perceive things at angles. Isshou can increase Gravity to bend light and decrease gravity (zero gravity means that light cannot move) to slow light down to the point where it's pretty much ineffective.

Source: Proper Logicnojutsu

With this logic Fujitora beats almost everyone in the verse because Gravity > Everything. Gravity >Ice and Magma. Kizaru uses physical attacks just like the rest of the characters...its hardly the same as real world light....there is no such thing as a light kick.

This is a light kick:

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And Gravity in reality > all. But in One Piece it will probably only have a huge effect on Borsalino's fruit as in real life Gravity has the greater effect on Energy than Matter.

 

[deva pein]

Yeah Kizaru's fruit is called the light fruit but it would be better if it was the laser laser fruit. And those physics don't work like that in One Piece. Luffy shouldn't be able to take 200 million volt or something without giving a shyt. Physics and shyt.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yeah Kizaru's fruit is called the light fruit but it would be better if it was the laser laser fruit. And those physics don't work like that in One Piece. Luffy shouldn't be able to take 200 million volt or something without giving a shyt. Physics and shyt.

That proves that Rubber was enhanced to insulate lightning

So wouldn't Gravity be enhanced to completely screw Light?

 

[Dr Strangelove]

But if Borsalino cannot use his Devil fruit for anything other than defense (which he doesn't seem to have) then he's definitely not capable of fighting at full strength. He would need everything to defeat a fellow Admiral (if he even could...)

Read my post, I said if Issho may have the fruit but he may not even be skilled enough with it to do what you are saying. He was practising with the fruit a few chapters ago, stated by himself. He clearly isn't as confident with it as Borsalino is with his. Plus as we've seen Issho doesn't have a huge span with the fruit, he makes those little circles, makes contact on others with his sword and has tractor beams. If Borsalino gets some distance between them this suddenly becomes difficult for Issho as Borsalino now has time for his charge up time.

Plus i've already agreed that Borsalino is on the same level as Issho, just I believe Borsalino to be a little above him.No way would it be an easy win for Borsalino at all. He would have to pull out every single stop xD

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Read my post, I said if Issho may have the fruit but he may not even be skilled enough with it to do what you are saying. He was practising with the fruit a few chapters ago, stated by himself. He clearly isn't as confident with it as Borsalino is with his. Plus as we've seen Issho doesn't have a huge span with the fruit, he makes those little circles, makes contact on others with his sword and has tractor beams. If Borsalino gets some distance between them this suddenly becomes difficult for Issho as Borsalino now has time for his charge up time.

Just because he tested his strength doesn't mean he isn't skilled. Have you seen what he's already done? He's already shown half of the stuff I've mentioned. If there's a large distance and Isshou turns out to have a very short range then there's still no chance Borsalino can win. As soon as he gets in range, or if Isshou puts of those rings that repelled things from him then Borsalino isn't touching him. So like I said before Kizaru cannot beat Isshou.

But if Isshou has a range large enough to pull down Meteors then surely he has an incredibly range.

Plus i've already agreed that Borsalino is on the same level as Issho, just I believe Borsalino to be a little above him.No way would it be an easy win for Borsalino at all. He would have to pull out every single stop xD

Exactly! And against Isshou he can't pull out every single stop

 

[Dr Strangelove]

Just because he tested his strength doesn't mean he isn't skilled. Have you seen what he's already done? He's already shown half of the stuff I've mentioned. If there's a large distance and Isshou turns out to have a very short range then there's still no chance Borsalino can win. As soon as he gets in range, or if Isshou puts of those rings that repelled things from him then Borsalino isn't touching him. So like I said before Kizaru cannot beat Isshou.

But if Isshou has a range large enough to pull down Meteors then surely he has an incredibly range.


Exactly! And against Isshou he can't pull out every single stop

The time it took for a meteor to reach Green Bit seemed longer than it took Borsalino to charge up. Plus if Law can cut a meteor in half you don't think Borsalino can blow one up? :/
Yes, Issho can repel anything, but once Borsalino gets that charge time done its a lightspeed kick straight to Issho and he goes flying.
Meteors are not a problem for Borsalino since we've already seen Law handle two and we've already seen the scale Of Borsalinos explosions.

And I think he can, we haven't even seen the guy have trouble yet, except for with Rayleigh.
If he can keep up with Rayleigh sword wise I think if he got pushed into a sword only battle he could compete with Issho too.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Light is not affected by gravity unless its as intense as a Black hole, Only Blackbeard can defeat Kizaru (Natural counter)

Source: Simple Physics

Pretty much this. Not only that, but One Piece doesn't follow all the laws of our real world.

From Enel surviving in space Kuzan vs Akainu.
If DFs work how you say it could, then Kuzan should be unable to ever defeat Akainu because there is no way ice in the real world could stand against magma, yet Kuzan was able to cause grievous damage to Akainu.

Edit: And it's not like Kuzan relied on more Haki than his fruit, because he used it heavily enough to permanently change one half of Punk Hazard, meaning he used it far more than he has in any of his appearances.

 

[Hexuze]

Pretty much this. Not only that, but One Piece doesn't follow all the laws of our real world.

From Enel surviving in space Kuzan vs Akainu.
If DFs work how you say it could, then Kuzan should be unable to ever defeat Akainu because there is no way ice in the real world could stand against magma, yet Kuzan was able to cause grievous damage to Akainu.

Agreed...

p2s

 

[Black Mamba]

i dont think you can use real world logic with the one piece world logic

fire is hotter than magma but ace's fire got burned to akainu's magma

 

[David1996]

Fujitora takes this, Kizaru isn't that good. He looked strong beating on some supernova with no haki.
All previous and current Admirals are better than him.

But he's better than Spain obviously. Even Van ***** scored twice against them.

 

[Bogard]

I think people say this because he didn't fodderize the supernovas like Kizaru did preskip but that's ignoring the fact the new supernovas are on another level simply compared to their past-self. They are planning to defeat yonkous now for god sake. Why are they so underrated, i don't know. Besides, we still don't know Issho's full power considering he was only joking in his fights until now. I get the feeling he will do something amazing by the end of this arc. He is a new admiral, so i don't think Oda will downgrade him this fast

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Oh dear guys. Oh dear.

@Mr.Outside

That's not the point. Isshou can use his Gravity to alter the path of Kizaru's lasers away from the Meteor. That's why Kizaru's fruit is useless against Isshou. Because Isshou's fruit can bend light to his will, especially in highly concentrated amounts where the effects are far more severe.

@the rest of you

So Rubber insulating Electricity isn't real?
Water sticking sand together doesn't happen in real life?
Okay. Cool. So what next?
Fire burning things? LOOOOOOOOL that's not real or anything!
(By the way. Only Blue flames and White flames are hotter than Magma... It also depends what is being burnt. No fire is hotter than magma if it's burning air...)
Swords cutting things? Duhh guys didn't you know Swords are supposed to be used to make Daisy Chains! Gawd OP is so unrealistic.


Or you guys could face the facts and realize that in One Piece there is something called Logic. It's why Kizaru can only travel at high speeds in straight lines. So if logic is correctly applied to light (as proven by the latter), then surely it would still be applied when comparing a clash between these two devil fruits.

Goodbye.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Oh dear guys. Oh dear.

@Mr.Outside

That's not the point. Isshou can use his Gravity to alter the path of Kizaru's lasers away from the Meteor. That's why Kizaru's fruit is useless against Isshou. Because Isshou's fruit can bend light to his will, especially in highly concentrated amounts where the effects are far more severe.

@the rest of you

So Rubber insulating Electricity isn't real?
Water sticking sand together doesn't happen in real life?
Okay. Cool. So what next?
Fire burning things? LOOOOOOOOL that's not real or anything!
(By the way. Only Blue flames and White flames are hotter than Magma... It also depends what is being burnt. No fire is hotter than magma if it's burning air...)
Swords cutting things? Duhh guys didn't you know Swords are supposed to be used to make Daisy Chains! Gawd OP is so unrealistic.


Or you guys could face the facts and realize that in One Piece there is something called Logic. It's why Kizaru can only travel at high speeds in straight lines. So if logic is correctly applied to light (as proven by the latter), then surely it would still be applied when comparing a clash between these two devil fruits.

Goodbye.

You're gonna just ignore things that aren't logical or don't happen in real life, but mention things that do happen in real life? Fallacies everywhere.

So ice can stand against magma?

Human beings can survive in space without protection? Or build a machine capable of flying into space without modern technology?

Snails can be made into phones, cameras, microphones, and fax machines?

A man can survive having half of his face blown off?

Luffy is made of rubber, yet his skin still heals like flesh. Last I checked, you poke a hole in rubber to blow air into it, that hole stays there and the air will escape, unless the hole is manually stitched up. I don't remember seeing Luffy patching up his thumb when he uses Gear 3.

You bring up swords, swords are capable of propelling air so strong, it can cut still from a distance?

What about Luffy coming in direct contact with snow with nothing but an OPEN cardigan and shorts, and not getting frostbite?

What about Enel's lightning striking humans, powerful enough to char their skin, but not stop their hearts?

There is logic, but there is also suspension of disbelief. Yes, you have a point that in One Piece, Isshou's gravity can affect Kizaru's light, but there is also the factor that a manga has no guarantee it will follow real life logic.

 

[Red Swag]

haki + exp + fighting style... wins

your post is simply saying no one can beat fujitora... lmao... ok then.

anything can be pulled by gravity... not just light or watever. you just probably hate kizaru thats all.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

haki + exp + fighting style... wins

your post is simply saying no one can beat fujitora... lmao... ok then.

anything can be pulled by gravity... not just light or watever. you just probably hate kizaru thats all.

Go back and re read.
[video=youtube;tb2Ct3yyB4g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb2Ct3yyB4g[/video]
I simply said Borsalino's fruit doesn't do shit to Fujitora. This is due to Lights total dependence on Gravity.

You're gonna just ignore things that aren't logical or don't happen in real life, but mention things that do happen in real life? Fallacies everywhere.

No, no....

People (You included) said that there isn't real world logic in One Piece and questioned that view. Because you know logic is used. Prime examples are how Luffy beat Enel and Crocodile.

So ice can stand against magma?

Can't and didn't. If I remember correctly Ice (Kuzan) lost, correct?

Human beings can survive in space without protection? Or build a machine capable of flying into space without modern technology?

Enel bro. Enel. And if there's a civilization on Vearth then there's clearly an environment and atmosphere that is inhabitable. So this point is non factor.

Snails can be made into phones, cameras, microphones, and fax machines?

That's what the species is. Den Den Mushi are a species.

A man can survive having half of his face blown off?

When you're as superhuman as Whitebeard I'm pretty sure they could. In fact people survive stuff like that in real life anyways...

Luffy is made of rubber, yet his skin still heals like flesh. Last I checked, you poke a hole in rubber to blow air into it, that hole stays there and the air will escape, unless the hole is manually stitched up. I don't remember seeing Luffy patching up his thumb when he uses Gear 3.

Luffy's healing is superhuman. One bit of meat and he's pretty much on top of the world again.

You bring up swords, swords are capable of propelling air so strong, it can cut still from a distance?

If we humans could apply a force strong enough, a sword could do that. Kinetic theory supports this.

What about Luffy coming in direct contact with snow with nothing but an OPEN cardigan and shorts, and not getting frostbite?

Pretty sure he got frostbite... (You're talking about Drum Kingdom, right?) he just healed quickly (like I said before he's superhuman).

He wore a coat in the Punk Hazard Arc. This proves he's susceptible to the cold.

What about Enel's lightning striking humans, powerful enough to char their skin, but not stop their hearts?

Got me here... good point

There is logic, but there is also suspension of disbelief. Yes, you have a point that in One Piece, Isshou's gravity can affect Kizaru's light, but there is also the factor that a manga has no guarantee it will follow real life logic.

Well Oda pays extreme attention to detail with Logia's. Makes their capabilities incredibly accurate. e.g. (probably best for this thread)
Under the influence of 1 (or less) G's Light can travel almost perfectly straight. This is why Kizaru has to charge up, bounce off of objects etc. when moving at the "speed of light"

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You can even see the path he follows.

Although the Manga is obviously surreal, when it comes to devil fruits Oda is very accurate