[HA] A Guide For Only Those Who Are Lost

[Kamishiro]

Tbh, my very first question is, what is your strategy when you start fighting? Do you have one, or do you simply attack randomly? I heard some senseis saying that you must have a strategy when you fight, but how so? I mean, I never had one. Only strategy I think of is either using a realistic genjutsu combined with elemental techniques or using water/wood from different angles around my opponent, however, these are really poor strategies, since they are based on an attack followed with an attack, which is pretty much repeated. That is one of my main problems. =/

 

[Deleted member 87095]

<div class="bbWrapper">lol seriously, thought u meant real world. wow, like how do you fight in the base??</div>

 

[Klad]

I mostly combine fire and wind , guess that's what strategy is . But the RP system doesn't let you create incredible strategies , y'know .

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Tbh, my very first question is, what is your strategy when you start fighting? Do you have one, or do you simply attack randomly? I heard some senseis saying that you must have a strategy when you fight, but how so? I mean, I never had one. Only strategy I think of is either using a realistic genjutsu combined with elemental techniques or using water/wood from different angles around my opponent, however, these are really poor strategies, since they are based on an attack followed with an attack, which is pretty much repeated. That is one of my main problems. =/

You don't need so much a strategy as you need a style. Look at each battle from the eyes of your character, what his is personality like, why are you fighting, how would he fight? Is your character a hot head, is your character more level headed? Is your character cautions, diabolical, humorous? What makes your character tick?

For example, my Isabella character is extremely powerful, and holds a position of great influence. She likes to dominate her opponent both physically and psychologically, the latter being her favorite. She is also quite arrogant. This means that I usually like to probe my opponent and toy with him, so I like to test out the limits of his strength, using Genjutsu and the punctual powerful attack, while still keeping the upper hand at all times. The defeat of my opponent is always inevitable, but she does it with beauty and deceit.

With Toriann, she is quite similar, but she has great varying traits. She is extremely old, and her clan gives her god-like powers and clarity. She lives in the culture of the Knowledge, so she exudes that certain sapience and enlightenment. But she is quite manipulative, and she mostly uses physical manipulation, with her body and beauty, rather than the cold and fear-based manipulation of Isabella. She is so knowledgeable and old that she detaches herself from the rest of the world, so she can both laugh about herself when her opponent tries to make fun of her, or she can entirely overwhelm her opponent with fury and power.


As you probably see, I enjoy manipulating my opponents and trick them. I like deceit and I like to play with them. Regardless of not going immediately for the kill, I still have a very aggressive style of fighting, because I always assume the upper hand, keeping my opponent defending and performing counters instead of blocks, for the most part, so that I can both defend myself and attack my opponent at the same time. There are others who have a more defensive style of fighting, wearing out the opponent or giving them a false sense of security before striking them down. Discover what you like to do the most in a fight, and then revolve your strategy around that.

It is also a good idea to find out your opponent's fighting style, in order to better predict your opponent's actions. Is he more playful or serious? Is he aggressive or defensive? Does he like an element more than others? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

 

[Kamishiro]

I mostly combine fire and wind , guess that's what strategy is . But the RP system doesn't let you create incredible strategies , y'know .

In That way.
In order to Develop a Valid Strategy I Suggest you Look at someones past battles,Their Bios and Their Training.
that way you can find Out Multiple Things.
1. The Opponents Signature Elements and Moves.
2. What way they Might Use their Jutsu.

using these you can Easily Find a Strategy.
Altough,Some of the Pro's Put more variety Between their Signature Moves.
So i Suggest you Look at who they Faught in Their Battle.
And What Elements he Used and His signature Moves.
So Basically like this.

You Find Out What Your Opponents Past Opponents Moves where.
You Look what Your Current opponent may React.
You Develop a Good Strategy out of 3 Jutsu.
ETC.

I mostly combine fire and wind , guess that's what strategy is . But the RP system doesn't let you create incredible strategies , y'know .

In That way.
In order to Develop a Valid Strategy I Suggest you Look at someones past battles,Their Bios and Their Training.
that way you can find Out Multiple Things.
1. The Opponents Signature Elements and Moves.
2. What way they Might Use their Jutsu.

using these you can Easily Find a Strategy.
Altough,Some of the Pro's Put more variety Between their Signature Moves.
So i Suggest you Look at who they Faught in Their Battle.
And What Elements he Used and His signature Moves.
So Basically like this.

You Find Out What Your Opponents Past Opponents Moves where.
You Look what Your Current opponent may React.
You Develop a Good Strategy out of 3 Jutsu.
ETC.

This is for only me and Lili-sensei. ^^

You don't need so much a strategy as you need a style. Look at each battle from the eyes of your character, what his is personality like, why are you fighting, how would he fight? Is your character a hot head, is your character more level headed? Is your character cautions, diabolical, humorous? What makes your character tick?

For example, my Isabella character is extremely powerful, and holds a position of great influence. She likes to dominate her opponent both physically and psychologically, the latter being her favorite. She is also quite arrogant. This means that I usually like to probe my opponent and toy with him, so I like to test out the limits of his strength, using Genjutsu and the punctual powerful attack, while still keeping the upper hand at all times. The defeat of my opponent is always inevitable, but she does it with beauty and deceit.

With Toriann, she is quite similar, but she has great varying traits. She is extremely old, and her clan gives her god-like powers and clarity. She lives in the culture of the Knowledge, so she exudes that certain sapience and enlightenment. But she is quite manipulative, and she mostly uses physical manipulation, with her body and beauty, rather than the cold and fear-based manipulation of Isabella. She is so knowledgeable and old that she detaches herself from the rest of the world, so she can both laugh about herself when her opponent tries to make fun of her, or she can entirely overwhelm her opponent with fury and power.


As you probably see, I enjoy manipulating my opponents and trick them. I like deceit and I like to play with them. Regardless of not going immediately for the kill, I still have a very aggressive style of fighting, because I always assume the upper hand, keeping my opponent defending and performing counters instead of blocks, for the most part, so that I can both defend myself and attack my opponent at the same time. There are others who have a more defensive style of fighting, wearing out the opponent or giving them a false sense of security before striking them down. Discover what you like to do the most in a fight, and then revolve your strategy around that.

It is also a good idea to find out your opponent's fighting style, in order to better predict your opponent's actions. Is he more playful or serious? Is he aggressive or defensive? Does he like an element more than others? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Oh, I get what you say, however, wouldn't that only be possible in case of having a manipulating character/aggressive character? What I mean is, if I have a calm character that isn't fond of fighting, much like Hashirama, or a casual and a classic character that doesn't care much about what the others do, that would force me to be more of defensive than aggressive, which would cause me the fight. I mean, how would I be aggressive if my character isn't?

That aside, Time-frame. It is one of my biggest problems as well. Not the basics of it, though. The basics like how time-frame works like your opponent's move, then yours, then his, then yours etc... That is a basic rule that all of us know of. However, what really confuses me, is the imagination of a technique, specially if it is used in the manga. I mean, some senseis said that "jutsus happens one after another" however, some others said that "two techniques could happen before your technique." Some also said that an aggressive action could be taken in the account of a first move, and thus you could attack straight away, some said no, you need to wait for your opponent's move. This really confuses me, hence why I tend to perform the fastest techniques with low rank in order to escape any confusion, since it wasn't clarified in anyway, how Time-frame works. I hope you can help me in that, having had a lot of fights, most of them with senior RP'ers. Another Problem of mine is ridiculous actually, but I will state it nevertheless. In casual fights with my friends, I do well, at least in my point of view, I think I give a good fight. However, in Battle tests/torunys and all the official stuff, I fear loss, thus, I keep searching and searching for the right technique and the right moment, I keep reasoning (which is another problem) which causes me the loss of the fight.

Another problem that I stated, is reasoning, whenever I give a reasoning for a battle, I keep putting lots of reasons and whatnot, trying to cover all areas, however, in a tourny fight, Reborn said that this wasn't necessarily and that this might cause me the fight, so I became rather confused, whether to give reasoning or not. I mean, in my point of view, I see that I have to make it as realistic as possible, hence why I post as much reasons as I could in, specially in tourny fights/battle tests.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

This is for only me and Lili-sensei. ^^



Oh, I get what you say, however, wouldn't that only be possible in case of having a manipulating character/aggressive character? What I mean is, if I have a calm character that isn't fond of fighting, much like Hashirama, or a casual and a classic character that doesn't care much about what the others do, that would force me to be more of defensive than aggressive, which would cause me the fight. I mean, how would I be aggressive if my character isn't?

That's why it is important that you chose the right characters for you. I might create a more defensive character as a challenge, but it would never be my main/permanent character. Besides, Hashirama is a leader, and if his village or the ones he loves is in jeopardy, he will take the lead and behave offensively. While a much more twisted version of hashirama, Scorps does have some very fitting moments.

That aside, Time-frame. It is one of my biggest problems as well. Not the basics of it, though. The basics like how time-frame works like your opponent's move, then yours, then his, then yours etc... That is a basic rule that all of us know of. However, what really confuses me, is the imagination of a technique, specially if it is used in the manga. I mean, some senseis said that "jutsus happens one after another" however, some others said that "two techniques could happen before your technique." Some also said that an aggressive action could be taken in the account of a first move, and thus you could attack straight away, some said no, you need to wait for your opponent's move. This really confuses me, hence why I tend to perform the fastest techniques with low rank in order to escape any confusion, since it wasn't clarified in anyway, how Time-frame works. I hope you can help me in that, having had a lot of fights, most of them with senior RP'ers.

There is a natural time progression that both participants have to follow. Each turn, from either participant, may add, remove or modify the events of the battle, but there is a restriction, which is the Time Frame Rule, which makes certain events of the battle to be unchangeable, and, thus, allowing the time to stack and the battle to move forward.


When your opponent makes a move, he has an infinite amount of time to work with, he can preform techniques, actions, etc, which take a certain amount of time to perform, or to travel, or to reach their conclusion. Everyone can perform 3 techniques per turn, but there is no limit to the amount of time a move has, image you have an earth attack that requires 5 handseals, you can waste like 2 seconds performing handseals, then 5 seconds to expel earth chakra outwards, then another 5 seconds to form a rock scythe and shoot it outwards. It travels, say, at 1 meter per 5 seconds. If your opponent is 15 meters from you, your turn would be:

2 + 5 + 5 + 5x15 = 87 seconds

Your opponent has to respond to your first offensive action, which is NOT when he sees you making handseals, and not when you're expelling chakra to mold (which should be invisible either way), but when the scythe appears, at the 12 second's mark. This means that your battle is already 12 seconds old, and there's nothing your opponent can do to change it. But the remaining 75 seconds, he can manipulate at will, say, for example, he spends no time making handseals, and straight to 5 seconds expelling lightning chakra outwards, then 5 seconds creating a lightning spear. 10 seconds into the move, your rock scythe traveled 2 meters. Imagine the spear moves 3 meter per 5 second, they would collide in around 15 seconds, around 5-6 meters from you, and it would carry on, and hit you in 10 seconds, his move:

5 + 5 + 25 = 35 seconds

So your turn was longer than his. Now that it's your turn, you have to respond after your opponent has actually manifested the lightning spear, stacking +10 seconds the the battle, now 22 seconds old, that neither of you can touch. And so on. That's the time frame rule. Breaking the time frame means that you are going back in time, noticeably, is when you alter something that your opponent has already reacted to. The only reason he made a lightning spear was because he saw an earth scythe forming. If you, in your turn, decide that you don't want to create an earth scythe and want instead a wind scythe to respond to the lightning spear, it means you are breaking the time frame, and it is essentially godmodding.

Too confusing? I think, bottom line is, the first physical manifestation of a defense or an attack, NOT making handseals, NOT focusing chakra, NOT speaking, NOT activating a passive ability, is the go signal for you to then start your turn. Of course, if you don't know what to react to, if something is invisible or concealed or simply doesn't have an actual shape or threat, you can give a little more time before your character has enough information to attack, but you can choose to start your turn at any time, and your opponent won't be able to start his until you give him permission to do so.

Another Problem of mine is ridiculous actually, but I will state it nevertheless. In casual fights with my friends, I do well, at least in my point of view, I think I give a good fight. However, in Battle tests/torunys and all the official stuff, I fear loss, thus, I keep searching and searching for the right technique and the right moment, I keep reasoning (which is another problem) which causes me the loss of the fight.

Another problem that I stated, is reasoning, whenever I give a reasoning for a battle, I keep putting lots of reasons and whatnot, trying to cover all areas, however, in a tourny fight, Reborn said that this wasn't necessarily and that this might cause me the fight, so I became rather confused, whether to give reasoning or not. I mean, in my point of view, I see that I have to make it as realistic as possible, hence why I post as much reasons as I could in, specially in tourny fights/battle tests.

yeah well, the more pressure we put ourselves in, the worse. Acting hot headed makes us more likely to make mistakes. It's one of the things I try to do the most, make my opponent behave emotionally, leading them to make mistakes (Or even manipulating them into making mistakes, which is always delightful). Besides, in friendly fights, you aren't under scrutiny. Your friend won't call you on every mistake you make, and more often than not, the minor things will simply slide. In a test, every small thing counts, and it's less likely your proctor will simply brush over a mistake and allow the fight to continue. Though I do believe that is a myth. I think it's important to be confident and sure of yourself. Unless it's something major, your proctor won't end the battle. In the end, he might point out this or that mistake, but give you an overall grade, which can be positive despite making mistakes.

As for the reasoning, you should describe your techniques and how you use them well. Saying: "I make 5 handseals and spit out a wind spear" is much more basic than: "Raising my hands to my waist level, I fluidly chain together 5 handseals, terminating in the Horse handseal, allowing me to charge wind chakra through my lungs. Lifting the final handseal to my mouth, I spit out the gather wind through the opening between my joined fingers, which swiftly molds the air into a 2 meter's long spear of sharp wind, charging towards you at fast speed, aiming to impale through your sternum and out through your back, pushing the bones on your thorax inwards, collapsing the lungs and the heart"


There are some things you can omit in a move, though, of course. When you want to counter a Fire jutsu with a Water jutsu, you can simply describe how the water forms an orb that collides with the fireball, dousing out the flames and carrying outwards as a heated and steaming balls of water, without having to explain that you use water because you know water is strong against fire, as per the elemental rules, because water absorbs the heat and puts out the fire, and also creates steam, I did not use wind because wind is actually weaker, and I had to use a fast technique because etc etc etc. Too much information. Especially in the more basic stuff, people, especially sensei, may take offense in you explaining all that.

You need to make sure you know exactly which information to give, and which information to omit. While having to describe everything you do in order for a move to be successful, you aren't forced to put emphasis in anything in particular. Sometimes is good to focus the description in part of the move, like a big elemental combination, while simply brushing another part in a simpler description, like a kunai thrown in the air, thus making your opponent focus on what you want him to focus, and possible forget the simpler part. There have been MANY defeats where people simply didn't read the description enough, and were fooled by it.
Also, the wording you use could also trick them.

For example, in my battle with Jokey, I had a sort of Mushroom Clone made of spores, which can part around physical objects and take no damage from them. I place the clone near Jokey where he used an Aluminum spear to pierce through the clone where he stood. In my turn, I described how the spores parted around the aluminum, beheading the clone. Beheading means death in normal people, but not to my clone, which can sustain his existence both in tangible form and in spore mist form. For a couple of turns I gave no further description of the clone, until Jokey actually forgot the clone, thinking it was dead. So he approached the place where the clone was, and allowed me to place a point-blank attack on him. He was defeated in a couple of turns afterwards.

See, I described everything that needed to be described. But I only gave out the information that I wanted to give. I didn't lie, and you can't lie, else the lie will validate your opponent's move, but I did put a different focus on the description.

 

[Kamishiro]

That's why it is important that you chose the right characters for you. I might create a more defensive character as a challenge, but it would never be my main/permanent character. Besides, Hashirama is a leader, and if his village or the ones he loves is in jeopardy, he will take the lead and behave offensively. While a much more twisted version of hashirama, Scorps does have some very fitting moments.




There is a natural time progression that both participants have to follow. Each turn, from either participant, may add, remove or modify the events of the battle, but there is a restriction, which is the Time Frame Rule, which makes certain events of the battle to be unchangeable, and, thus, allowing the time to stack and the battle to move forward.


When your opponent makes a move, he has an infinite amount of time to work with, he can preform techniques, actions, etc, which take a certain amount of time to perform, or to travel, or to reach their conclusion. Everyone can perform 3 techniques per turn, but there is no limit to the amount of time a move has, image you have an earth attack that requires 5 handseals, you can waste like 2 seconds performing handseals, then 5 seconds to expel earth chakra outwards, then another 5 seconds to form a rock scythe and shoot it outwards. It travels, say, at 1 meter per 5 seconds. If your opponent is 15 meters from you, your turn would be:

2 + 5 + 5 + 5x15 = 87 seconds

Your opponent has to respond to your first offensive action, which is NOT when he sees you making handseals, and not when you're expelling chakra to mold (which should be invisible either way), but when the scythe appears, at the 12 second's mark. This means that your battle is already 12 seconds old, and there's nothing your opponent can do to change it. But the remaining 75 seconds, he can manipulate at will, say, for example, he spends no time making handseals, and straight to 5 seconds expelling lightning chakra outwards, then 5 seconds creating a lightning spear. 10 seconds into the move, your rock scythe traveled 2 meters. Imagine the spear moves 3 meter per 5 second, they would collide in around 15 seconds, around 5-6 meters from you, and it would carry on, and hit you in 10 seconds, his move:

5 + 5 + 25 = 35 seconds

So your turn was longer than his. Now that it's your turn, you have to respond after your opponent has actually manifested the lightning spear, stacking +10 seconds the the battle, now 22 seconds old, that neither of you can touch. And so on. That's the time frame rule. Breaking the time frame means that you are going back in time, noticeably, is when you alter something that your opponent has already reacted to. The only reason he made a lightning spear was because he saw an earth scythe forming. If you, in your turn, decide that you don't want to create an earth scythe and want instead a wind scythe to respond to the lightning spear, it means you are breaking the time frame, and it is essentially godmodding.

Too confusing? I think, bottom line is, the first physical manifestation of a defense or an attack, NOT making handseals, NOT focusing chakra, NOT speaking, NOT activating a passive ability, is the go signal for you to then start your turn. Of course, if you don't know what to react to, if something is invisible or concealed or simply doesn't have an actual shape or threat, you can give a little more time before your character has enough information to attack, but you can choose to start your turn at any time, and your opponent won't be able to start his until you give him permission to do so.



yeah well, the more pressure we put ourselves in, the worse. Acting hot headed makes us more likely to make mistakes. It's one of the things I try to do the most, make my opponent behave emotionally, leading them to make mistakes (Or even manipulating them into making mistakes, which is always delightful). Besides, in friendly fights, you aren't under scrutiny. Your friend won't call you on every mistake you make, and more often than not, the minor things will simply slide. In a test, every small thing counts, and it's less likely your proctor will simply brush over a mistake and allow the fight to continue. Though I do believe that is a myth. I think it's important to be confident and sure of yourself. Unless it's something major, your proctor won't end the battle. In the end, he might point out this or that mistake, but give you an overall grade, which can be positive despite making mistakes.

As for the reasoning, you should describe your techniques and how you use them well. Saying: "I make 5 handseals and spit out a wind spear" is much more basic than: "Raising my hands to my waist level, I fluidly chain together 5 handseals, terminating in the Horse handseal, allowing me to charge wind chakra through my lungs. Lifting the final handseal to my mouth, I spit out the gather wind through the opening between my joined fingers, which swiftly molds the air into a 2 meter's long spear of sharp wind, charging towards you at fast speed, aiming to impale through your sternum and out through your back, pushing the bones on your thorax inwards, collapsing the lungs and the heart"


There are some things you can omit in a move, though, of course. When you want to counter a Fire jutsu with a Water jutsu, you can simply describe how the water forms an orb that collides with the fireball, dousing out the flames and carrying outwards as a heated and steaming balls of water, without having to explain that you use water because you know water is strong against fire, as per the elemental rules, because water absorbs the heat and puts out the fire, and also creates steam, I did not use wind because wind is actually weaker, and I had to use a fast technique because etc etc etc. Too much information. Especially in the more basic stuff, people, especially sensei, may take offense in you explaining all that.

You need to make sure you know exactly which information to give, and which information to omit. While having to describe everything you do in order for a move to be successful, you aren't forced to put emphasis in anything in particular. Sometimes is good to focus the description in part of the move, like a big elemental combination, while simply brushing another part in a simpler description, like a kunai thrown in the air, thus making your opponent focus on what you want him to focus, and possible forget the simpler part. There have been MANY defeats where people simply didn't read the description enough, and were fooled by it.
Also, the wording you use could also trick them.

For example, in my battle with Jokey, I had a sort of Mushroom Clone made of spores, which can part around physical objects and take no damage from them. I place the clone near Jokey where he used an Aluminum spear to pierce through the clone where he stood. In my turn, I described how the spores parted around the aluminum, beheading the clone. Beheading means death in normal people, but not to my clone, which can sustain his existence both in tangible form and in spore mist form. For a couple of turns I gave no further description of the clone, until Jokey actually forgot the clone, thinking it was dead. So he approached the place where the clone was, and allowed me to place a point-blank attack on him. He was defeated in a couple of turns afterwards.

See, I described everything that needed to be described. But I only gave out the information that I wanted to give. I didn't lie, and you can't lie, else the lie will validate your opponent's move, but I did put a different focus on the description.

Understood. This is one of the best explanation about Time-frame one has ever explained to me, thanks, sensei. ;3

I had a lot of questions, however, I can't tend to remember any of them right now. xD
Do you mind having an all-out battle here(from both sides), I guess that will reveal most of my problems, after all, that is what is called battle training. If you don't have the time/the mood, then I guess that is enough, I have bothered you enough. :3

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Understood. This is one of the best explanation about Time-frame one has ever explained to me, thanks, sensei. ;3

I had a lot of questions, however, I can't tend to remember any of them right now. xD
Do you mind having an all-out battle here(from both sides), I guess that will reveal most of my problems, after all, that is what is called battle training. If you don't have the time/the mood, then I guess that is enough, I have bothered you enough. :3

Yeah, not in the mood for a battle, I'm sorry. But I'll keep my subscription to this battle, so just post here when you have a question

 

[Lord of Kaos]

#Lili4Sensei
#teachmepl0x

 

[Lord of Kaos]

I don't think you get the joke there.....

I'll stop spamming Lili.

 

[Kamishiro]

Yeah, not in the mood for a battle, I'm sorry. But I'll keep my subscription to this battle, so just post here when you have a question

Alright then, thanks again. :3

 

[Lili-Chwan]

I don't think you get the joke there.....

I'll stop spamming Lili.

Always bringing the spammers