[VS] Itachi and Nagato vs BM Naruto and EMS Sasuke

genii96

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
5,877
Reaction score
171
Lol no. You misunderstood
I never compared Itachi's susanoo to PS. EMS enables Sasuke to do the same as well unless you have proof that it doesn't. Like I said, it comes with him having EMS. Its destructive capability is the same. Nothing suggest that Madara added something to his PS to make its destructive capability somewhat stronger than Sasuke's. Rikudosasuke is a completely different story.


Exactly, but no one's susanoo was said to be inferior to the another let alone PS. Matter of fact, Sasuke collaborating with Naruto reminded Hashirama of what he encountered in the past

Sasuke not surpassing Madara at that point was not based on his PS. Did you consider the fact that Madara had the rinnegan while Sasuke didn't at that point as well.

Nagato's case is different as well. Both Madara and Sasuke can use PS. That's what matters. Nagato not being able to use Limbo doesn't matter here at all. This would matter if Sasuke couldn't use PS but he can.
Can you prove to me that Sasuke learning Madara could absorb Ninjutsu was the reason he didn't use PS?..He already attacked not using PS before he knew. He didn't know blind Madara could absorb Ninjutsu but he still attacked without using PS so that doesn't matter.
Itachi used Susanoo against Nagato who could absorb ninjutsu as well



Obviously an error, unless you're telling me Tsunade's punch is stronger than Liger bomb
This doesn't matter. Tsunade's first punch cracked Madara's susanoo ribs and then her second attack which was a kick broke it.
Raikage hit sasuke with a liger bomb and then his second attack broke susanoo ribs which was already damaged due to the first liger bomb which is stronger than Tsunade's punch.
Could Sasuke's susanoo fly before he was given hagoromo's power?



- The dog would be killed quickly
- Gedo gets destroyed

Itachi not warning Naruto means nothing. Not to mention the fact that Itachi wasn't even seen after Nagato came back.

Lol The sharigan isn't the same as sensing so I don't know what you're on about. Obito followed Taiseki who had the same exact technique with his sharingan. Sasuke would do the same. Mu is completely different from the chameleon.
You talk about not comparing fodders and you're doing just that.

oh,ok my bad.
Nagato and hagoromo can do CT,yet one is obviously superior to the other. However going by your logic,i could just say nagato uses a moon sized CT
We already have feats of their slashes,one while amped up couldnt make a shockwave,one on its own could.
The same ay couldnt scratch madara's ribcage susanoo with his chop and needed onoki to damage it.
Ems gives sasuke ps,but that dosent make him eual to madara. Just because 2 prople have a similar ninjutsu dosent mean they will be equal.the power depends on the user. Madara and sasuke can do fireball techs,yet one is stronger. Susanoo is a ninjutsu,it's power depends on the user lke anyother ninjutsu. If ama and tsuki are different in power levels,wgy wont susanoo be?.
Ema madara has more power than ems sasuke,his susanoo will be stronger.
Rikudo sasuke's susanoo gaining wings after getting hago's power proves my point,sasuke got a power boost,his susanoo got stronger and better.

Why would you be looking for people to say it when feats already show it?,noone said kyubi's tbb could equal 5 others combined,yet it can.

Ssasuke attacked with amaterasu as a sneak attack,once naruto informed him of ninjutsu being absorbed,he only used kenjutsu,no chidori,no fireball,no enton,no ninjutsu,susanoo is a ninjutsu,he didnt even use a ribcage. You think sasuke would charge in against madara with just a sword if he could use a ps?,or even a v3? Comeon.

The dog cant be killed,just incapacitated with ama/enton

gedo wasnt destroyed by a moon sized CT and withstood it for centuries too. It also took a combined tbb from both nardo and bee and still managed to go juubi. It's soul dragon and chakra chains are sasuke's worst nightmare.

Sensors detect chakra,sharingan sees it,if it cant be sensed,that means it's chakra is completely hidden,and cant be seen either. That guy just hid his body,not his chakra. Chamelion hides both
 

Unorthodox

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
16,325
Reaction score
693
genii still rooting for Nagato? 4 once im rooting for evani
 

Haizaki

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
6,233
Reaction score
295
would reply in about 30 mins genii
 

AizenSosuke

Leaf Village Regular 🍃
Regular
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
590
Reaction score
38
exactly,he will keep coming back agin and again. And naruto cant stay long in bm iirc
ps gets absorbed

Nagato gets crushed before he can absorb PS.

OT:Naruto and Sasuke wins high diff.
 

Selan

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
108
Sasuke with Naruto's Kyuubi chakra cloak should solo.

BM Naruto would surely solo.

Together... they stomp.
 

Haizaki

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
6,233
Reaction score
295
oh,ok my bad.
Nagato and hagoromo can do CT,yet one is obviously superior to the other. However going by your logic,i could just say nagato uses a moon sized CT

I already told you, Nagato's case is different. Obito said that when both eyes go back to it's original owner, no one can stop him. Obito was emphasizing on the fact that Madara gains the full power of the rinnegan since he's the true owner. Nagato had the rinnegan implanted into him. He's not the true wielder. When Madara had both eyes, we saw what he was capable of doing.

We already have feats of their slashes,one while amped up couldnt make a shockwave,one on its own could.
The same ay couldnt scratch madara's ribcage susanoo with his chop and needed onoki to damage it.
Ems gives sasuke ps,but that dosent make him eual to madara. Just because 2 prople have a similar ninjutsu dosent mean they will be equal.the power depends on the user. Madara and sasuke can do fireball techs,yet one is stronger. Susanoo is a ninjutsu,it's power depends on the user lke anyother ninjutsu. If ama and tsuki are different in power levels,wgy wont susanoo be?.
Ema madara has more power than ems sasuke,his susanoo will be stronger.
Rikudo sasuke's susanoo gaining wings after getting hago's power proves my point,sasuke got a power boost,his susanoo got stronger and better.

No, PS creating shockwaves at that point was to show what it's capable of doing. Sasuke PS not showing creating shockwaves doesn't really matter. Sasuke's slash didn't do anything to Obito's onmyodoun, so what would be the need of showing what a shockwave could do at that point? Sasuke is able to use PS. The thing is Susanoo's destructive capability doesn't vary with the user. Being able to cast Tsukoyomi and use Amaterasu is different to this. This involves destructive capability. Itachi could control the length of the Illusion better , while Sasuke can manipulate the black flames better. This doesn't mean the power of the techniques are stronger. It's just the ability to use it better. Not to mention nothing was said concerning Susanoo being different in terms of power levels.

Ay's case is different. I already explained it in my previous post. Sasuke was hit with a liger bomb which didn't fully damage his susanoo ribs. Ay's chop isn't stronger than that.

Madara uses a completely different fire style jutsu to Sasuke. This would come into play if Sasuke could use Great fire Annihilation but Sasuke can't so we can't compare. Not to mention Kakashi used the same jutsu as Kisame to cancel out his jutsu despite them not encountering each other before .

Sasuke having Hagaromo's power is different like I said. Here Zetsu questioned if his Rinnegan allowed his susanoo to do this. Sasuke says without the susanoo I created with my eyes so Sasuke PS was influenced by his rinnegan . EMS is EMS.

Why would you be looking for people to say it when feats already show it?,noone said kyubi's tbb could equal 5 others combined,yet it can.

You seem to not understand that PS involves the eyes.You can't use PS with MS but it's shown you can use Susanoo with MS and it hasn't been shown that one can tank something the other cannot or rather one cannot destroy something other can destroy. EMS grants you the ability to use PS and that's all. How is it that EMS grants another the ability to use a stronger susanoo than someone who has the EMS?


Ssasuke attacked with amaterasu as a sneak attack,once naruto informed him of ninjutsu being absorbed,he only used kenjutsu,no chidori,no fireball,no enton,no ninjutsu,susanoo is a ninjutsu,he didnt even use a ribcage. You think sasuke would charge in against madara with just a sword if he could use a ps?,or even a v3? Comeon
It doesn't matter at all.This was what Naruto said "It's pointless just to throw jutsu's at him" unless you have the viz translation. Also Sasuke not using PS over there doesn't mean anything. Not to mention he didn't resort to PS from the start against a stronger opponent. My point is, why would he resort straight to PS? Why would he use a ribcage when he was on the offensive? Even so, Itachi used Susanoo against Nagato who could absorb Ninjutsu as well.


The dog cant be killed,just incapacitated with ama/enton
Yes. Nagato would then be dealt with


gedo wasnt destroyed by a moon sized CT and withstood it for centuries too. It also took a combined tbb from both nardo and bee and still managed to go juubi. It's soul dragon and chakra chains are sasuke's worst nightmare.

Madara's susanoo's sword broke the chain, imagine what Sasuke's PS would do

PS destroys Gedo.

Sensors detect chakra,sharingan sees it,if it cant be sensed,that means it's chakra is completely hidden,and cant be seen either. That guy just hid his body,not his chakra. Chamelion hides both

No. Jiraiya said here that Nagato was hiding inside the mouth of the chameleon that can make itself invisible. Never said anything about hiding chakra at all. Sharingan would see it. The detection barrier could detect it, just that Pain was away from it. It's probably because Pain was in the mouth that's why he couldn't be detected. It's just like how Pain could sense but couldn't sense that animal path was inside bunta's mouth
 
Last edited:

NSUNSR

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
1,761
Reaction score
112
Restrict Ps Kurama fusion, make Nagato edo and mobile, make so Naruto can't use BM the whole time, and give Naruto and Sasuke sealing tags. Then we have a match.
 

Bronze

Banned
Legendary
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
15,769
Reaction score
1,221
..Ya know...


I wonder whether or not you actually realize this is an Itachi capable of spamming his Mangekyo Sharingan techniques? Are you speaking vaguely without coming to a complete understanding of what is being contrasted, that is, An Edo Tensei Itachi who cannot be 'stomped' by any means the opposing could provide; to a BM Naruto who is entirely subject to Itachi's ocular prowess. Nothing Naruto can produce are capable of breaching Itachi's defenses, his Kyubi cloak is only a protruding target for Totsuka's pierce----Uzumaki's entire arsenal is redundant.

Itachi does not maintain infinite Chakra; proven by Edo Tensie and Sasuke questioning whether he is able to use Susanoo. The only defense in Itachi's arsenal is Susanoo, which can be penetrated by the offering of Uzumaki Naruto. E.g: Bijuu Dama [ ].​
 

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Reaction score
2,378
Totsuka said:
Totsuka-no-Tsurugi's blade is imbued with with sealing jutsu in that; seals anything it pierces

You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images
 

Rιver

Banned
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
202

You must be registered for see images
.....

Now Itachi could simply cover Nagato within his Susano-ō and stand by as a watchman using the Sharingan's perceptive abilities while Nagato he raids Naru-Sasu with Rin'negan Jutsu. It is not true to say that because the opposing team is capable of uniting the Susano-ō's and Kyūbi's avatar that they would be provided a victory, simply because their raw power striking abilities in that state would have absolutely no effect on Yata-no-Kagami----It can be stretched to their individual jutsu as well. If Naruto and Sasuke decide to initially combat team Itachi in their 'Kyūbi-Susano-ō' state then in all likelihood they or rather their avatar would be sealed by Totsuka-no-Tsurugi which would remove Susano-ō from Sasuke and 'BM' from Naruto. I'll make a digression at this point since many seem to misunderstand the reason why Totsua is capable of Sealing things such as the Susano-o and Kyūbi avatar: Totsuka-no-Tsurugi's blade is imbued with with sealing jutsu in that; seals anything it pierces, that is, both and things however, souls that are sealed within the gourd are placed under a certain Genjutsu. Susano-ō and the Kyūbi avatar are created by the same general concept however there is a difference in the methods; where Susano-ō is created from high potency of Inton saturating the Uchiha's brain and gains a form through Yōton [the physical energy taken from the user] making it an Inton based entity and on the other-hand, the Inton used the create the Kyūbi avatar is taken from Naruto [the spiritual energy taken from the user] and gain's a form via the Yōton provided by the section of Kurama sealed within Naruto making it a Yōton based entity. The Totsuka no Tsurugi can seal both as they are really a tangible manifestation of the user's/tailed beast's chakra. I'll elaborate further to say that the databook states that the katana is saturated with sealing jutsu but the souls which are sealed are placed under Genjutsu for eternity and likewise sealed away. Orochimaru's Yamata no Jutsu was also a manifestation of his Chakra yet it was sealed within the sword and also Nagato's soul along with the host to which it was attached was seald; just as Orochimaru's Yamata. Neither the 'dead host' or the 'Hydra' possessed souls yet they were sealed. Now what can be said is that as the mindset of this match-up is a complete knowledge and understanding of the opponents capabilities and Jutsu it's highly unlikely that Naruto and Sasuke would allow themselves the be caught by Totsuka unless they use an irrational approach as stated prior. However true it may be that an EMS Sasuke is stronger than any Nagato individually is really a void argument as he is assisted by Itachi and what ever he is capable of----there are simply too many collaborative possibilities and strategical approaches that could be formulated between Itachi and Nagato for Naruto and Sasuke to fairly win this matchup. An example of this is: Once Nagato is within Itachi's Susano-ō he utilizes Tendō's abilities to draw Naruto and Sasuke right into the Totsuka Katana. The match would be lengthy but due to Kurama's limitations on Chakra output and as stated by others the lack of Sealing jutsu for team 2; then it is highly likely that Team one wins this match-up.

You must be registered for see images


Your interpretation of Totsuka is based on fallacy; mere thought of Totsuka being able to seal inanimate objects with no soul is delusional. Totsuka only acts as a medium to transport souls inside the gourd, while the gourd itself only seals souls. Kyūbi avatar and Susano'O possess no soul, and interact only on the user's will.
 

Unorthodox

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
16,325
Reaction score
693
Itachi does not maintain infinite Chakra; proven by Edo Tensie and Sasuke questioning whether he is able to use Susanoo. The only defense in Itachi's arsenal is Susanoo, which can be penetrated by the offering of Uzumaki Naruto. E.g: Bijuu Dama [ ].​

stop edo's have unlimited chakra sasuke knows nothing about edo tensei so thats why he would say that also you think edo madara fought that hard and used so much jutsu without any sigh of exhaustion this is madara words himself

You must be registered for see images


now stfu in troll somewhere else
 

King Of Pop

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
7,137
Reaction score
678
Naruto and sasuke win. Sasuke covers narutos cloak with his Ps and they proceed to rape. That fusionn would mean multiple bijuuu dama mixed with ps slashes, nagato dies to that horribly and itachi follows but he's edo so am not really sure how they will seal him. Totsuka is not piercing sasukes soosano so its not a threat at all. So it won't pierce narutos cloak once sasuke has it covered. That's directed to that guy who totsuka will get rid of naruto.
 

Waltz

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
9,979
Reaction score
1,256
A) Like what one bijuu dama shot at his susanoo its gone also nagato only means of attack is deva path naruto 6 tails withstood it let alone the bm avatar.



B) They have much more firepower and that does give them the edge in the ability to win this yata mirror is going to need more than hype for it to even be a factor here especially when going up against bijuu dama's or perfect susanoo swords.



C) Stop just stop for one totsuka isnt piercing sasuke's perfect susanoo to even touch naruto's bm avatar also posting an edo to support you claim is egregious when totsuka is a sealing jutsu for souls edo's have souls the bm avatar doesnt nor does susanoo so you brining that up was just not good at all. Side not i agree with sealing kurama but it wont happen in a thoudsand years because naruto is to fast for that.



D)Naruto & Sasuke has much more combinations than them clones, enton, FRS, chakra shrouds, Bashin tenion isnt pulling perfect susanno not one bit or kurama once the use they're fusion tech gg team rinne,Ms, they would only win due to itachi being edo as none has sealing
@ 'A' , 'B' & 'D': Yata-no-Kagami negates and reflects any attack; this is what was portrayed and stated both canonically and via the databook. There has thus far been nothing discrediting or contradicting it's capabilities; whether or not you personally agree with the idea. No matter what offensive combinations Naruto and Sasuke could contemplate, it means nothing if they cannot breach the enemy's defenses. Regarding 'C', read my response to Versta.

Itachi does not maintain infinite Chakra; proven by Edo Tensie and Sasuke questioning whether he is able to use Susanoo. The only defense in Itachi's arsenal is Susanoo, which can be penetrated by the offering of Uzumaki Naruto. E.g: Bijuu Dama [ ].​
An ineligible Sasuke is nothing more than an invalid argument as he does not know the inner workings of the Edo-Tensei Jutsu. Thought I already addressed the issue that a Biju-dama is insufficient to breach Itachi's complete Susano-o and it's anchoring functions.

Your interpretation of Totsuka is based on fallacy; mere thought of Totsuka being able to seal inanimate objects with no soul is delusional. Totsuka only acts as a medium to transport souls inside the gourd, while the gourd itself only seals souls. Kyūbi avatar and Susano'O possess no soul, and interact only on the user's will.



A deductive approach as a means to truly understand any particular jutsu is fallacious in what regard exactly? I do not understand what you are referring to. Further more why do you go on to assume that Totsuka is only a medium when it's properties can be altered to suit a particular combat scenario. What you fail to realize is that if the Totsuka-no-Tsurugi only sealed 'souls' then it's sealing process would be a function identical to that of the Shiki-fujin [ ]: which once it makes the desired target it only the soul from within the body/object/external elements and seals it within the destined location. It then means that Nagato's sealing by the Totsuka would have been like this [ ], leaving the corpse of the dead Shinobi behind since it now 'has no soul'----or similarly, Orochimaru's Hydra.


Refuted,

Next
You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:

Bronze

Banned
Legendary
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
15,769
Reaction score
1,221
An ineligible Sasuke is nothing more than an invalid argument as he does not know the inner workings of the Edo-Tensei Jutsu. Thought I already addressed the issue that a Biju-dama is insufficient to breach Itachi's complete Susano-o and it's anchoring functions.

Uchiha Sasuke was acknowledged in Edo Tensie's regeneration properties [ ]. Further the implication, 2nd Mizukage, Muu and Edo Tensie Hokage were limited to their living supply of Chakra. To imply otherwise, is a mere fallacious denial. I assume you speak of Yata, in other case, Bijuu Dama's destructive feats is enough.​

stop edo's have unlimited chakra sasuke knows nothing about edo tensei so thats why he would say that also you think edo madara fought that hard and used so much jutsu without any sigh of exhaustion this is madara words himself

You must be registered for see images

now stfu in troll somewhere else

Bitch please...Edo Tensie Madara's version surpasses that of Itachi's. 2nd Mizukage, Muu and Edo Hokage's disproved the fallacious claim. You can now put a sock in your mouth and never challenge your superiors.​
 
Last edited:

Waltz

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
9,979
Reaction score
1,256
Unfortunately, that doesn't highlight Sasuke being entirely illegible of the Edo Tensei's inner workings and specifically does not indicate that he is versed on the concept of Chakra consumption where the Edo Tensei is concerned.

D.R said:
To imply otherwise, is a mere fallacious denial.

You must be registered for see images
Huh..?

How am I in fallacious denial of something that I never stated or implied? I simply said that this is an Itachi capable of spamming his Mangekyo Sharingan abilities. Zetsu already gave sufficient credit that Itachi's reflexes, output and showcasing of abilities were only a shadow of what he is regularly capable of:

You must be registered for see images

-
You must be registered for see images

-
You must be registered for see images


Compiling this unto the endless stamina and regenerative abilities provided by the Edo tensei it's not distant to say that itachi would be capable of spamming his Mangekyo Sharingan jutsu throughout the battle.
 
Last edited:

Bronze

Banned
Legendary
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
15,769
Reaction score
1,221
@Waltz, Whether Sasuke has awareness of Edo Tensie's inner functioning is but a speculation. I added his questioning to further up my point. As for your last points; [ ]. A blood released from his usage of Amatersu, resulted a strain on his eye, implying that Edo Itachi indeed does not maintain infinite Chakra/stamina as you're subjecting. He will be out reserve and waiting to recover Chakra. But even so, none of his techniques would pose a danger to Bijuu Mode Naruto or EMS Sasuke.​
 

TRE MERCER

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
13,251
Reaction score
487
@Waltz, Whether Sasuke has awareness of Edo Tensie's inner functioning is but a speculation. I added his questioning to further up my point. As for your last points; [ ]. A blood released from his usage of Amatersu, resulted a strain on his eye, implying that Edo Itachi indeed does not maintain infinite Chakra/stamina as you're subjecting. He will be out reserve and waiting to recover Chakra. But even so, none of his techniques would pose a danger to Bijuu Mode Naruto or EMS Sasuke.​
So your saying EdoItachi is going to run out ofStamina?
 

Dark Riku

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
27
Give Naruto or Sasuke sealing techs and they win.
 
Top