Kishimoto is Sexist

[awesomeseimei]

That is not a pattern though. It was just the particular women that the panels showed who just happened to already be in love with someone or obsessed with guys in the cases of Ino and Mei. The Sakura thing was Lee's dream, so that one doesn't actually reflect on Sakura. As for Hinata's dream, you have to remember the reason why she likes Naruto in the first place. She is not having this dream because she is obsessed with guys. She specifically likes Naruto because Naruto has always encouraged her. That is not an obsession with males. That is just a desire to be encouraged (which all humans male or female have). Choji's dream was similar to Lee's in that it doesn't reflect on the woman since it was Choji's dream and his desire for a mate. As for Tsunade, it is not obsessive over guys to want your lover to be alive and living his dream. If I had a girl friend that died without getting to live her dream, my dream would be like Tsunade's too (at least part of the dream would be). Ino and Mei are the only ones who obsessed over guys, and that is just their personality like I said before.

Also, I could reverse your logic against you. By your logic, anyone who is in love with someone or who desires a mate is obsessive over the opposite ***. That includes guys as well. In fact, Lee and Choji's dreams depicted them wanting girls. By your logic, wouldn't that classify as them obsessing over girls? To tell you the truth, it would technically make theirs even more obsessive than Tsunade's since theirs just deal with adolescent crushes and desires while Tsunade's dream portrayed all of the actual tragedy in Tsunade's life and the actual true love that she had for these people. In short, your logic says that love = obsession. This would apply to both guys and girls.

Besides, there are plenty of female characters that have nothing to do with guys. There is Kaguya, Karui, Tenten, Mabui, Shizune, Temari, etc... I know you are probably about to say that most of those girls are hardly relevant, but to be fair there aren't a lot of relevant girls in this manga to begin with. Therefore, we have no other choice but to count these girls.

Conclusion: Your logic says that love = obsession = sexism. Love applies to both genders (both inside of the manga and out. We already saw Lee and Choji's dreams. Let's not even get started on Obito). Therefore with your logic, you must say that Kishi is being sexist towards both guys and girls. If you do not say this, then you are denying instances of male "obsession" for the sole purpose of advocating for females. Of course that in turn would render you as sexist towards males. It is not possible for Kishi to be sexist towards both males and females because then everyone would just be getting normal and equal treatment. Therefore there is no sexism going on here.

Diversity is the problem here. Kishi could have shown at least one female with a dream more like Shino's or Kiba's. Of course those are logical dreams to have for characters as they are established, but that is the problem. Why not at least showing Tenten achieving her Part I dream of being a strong kunoichi like Tsunade, as shallow as it may be? Why not show, for example, Shizune dreaming of, I dunno, being a top medical ninja? Something even more random that involves no romance?

Again, Kishi is a lot better than, say, many movie writers who make female characters nothing more than eye candy and shallow love interests, but cases of important female characters thinking of males are more common than their male counterparts thinking of them.

 

[slimreaper]

Diversity is the problem here. Kishi could have shown at least one female with a dream more like Shino's or Kiba's. Of course those are logical dreams to have for characters as they are established, but that is the problem. Why not at least showing Tenten achieving her Part I dream of being a strong kunoichi like Tsunade, as shallow as it may be? Why not show, for example, Shizune dreaming of, I dunno, being a top medical ninja? Something even more random that involves no romance?

Again, Kishi is a lot better than, say, many movie writers who make female characters nothing more than eye candy and shallow love interests, but cases of important female characters thinking of males are more common than their male counterparts thinking of them.

[video=youtube;jVuLyE8ZvdI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVuLyE8ZvdI[/video]

didn't take you long

 

[BlackFlame44]

Sakura was fawning over Lee in his dreams while Lee beat people up. Hence, Kishimoto is showing males as dominant.

Or maybe he knows that people want to find love and have their feelings returned

I swear people nowadays want disect ideals that aren't there lol

 

[Alfred Pennyworth]

sexism involves treating ppl of certain gender unfairly or offensively based on certain gender stereotype

here ksishimoto's portrayal of their dreams is at most gender-stereotypical , as no unfair treatment of one gender is involved , since everyone is just dreaming about their inner desires .

you may argue it's stereotypical-after all,male dominace in japan is very traditional- but claiming it's sexist is just too far.

besides , tsunade's dream has nothing to do with gender stereotype .
Being hokage was never tsunade's desire/dream(she was kinda forced and under the belief of Will of Fire she accepted the offer) but it was her lover-dan's . Yet she did hope to help dan achieve this dream . hence it's natural that this dream is portrayed in tsunade's IT if she truely treasures her lover and his dream

 

[Kamui Sama]

No he's just terrible at writing female characters, that's all. He's not being sexist or anything.

I agree with this

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Kishi's terrible at writing female characters so it's not suprising he would pick the stereo-typical and cliche dreams for some of the female cast.

 

[minatoisagod]

well most Japanese guys are it how their culture is when you look at it.

 

[chaos control]

Diversity is the problem here. Kishi could have shown at least one female with a dream more like Shino's or Kiba's. Of course those are logical dreams to have for characters as they are established, but that is the problem. Why not at least showing Tenten achieving her Part I dream of being a strong kunoichi like Tsunade, as shallow as it may be? Why not show, for example, Shizune dreaming of, I dunno, being a top medical ninja? Something even more random that involves no romance?

Again, Kishi is a lot better than, say, many movie writers who make female characters nothing more than eye candy and shallow love interests, but cases of important female characters thinking of males are more common than their male counterparts thinking of them.

I see your point here, but the real problem is society's emphasis on diversity and lumping people in general. People should not really put race or gender labels on people for anything besides logical purposes (such as medical purposes, bathroom purposes in the case of gender, etc...). It should not matter whether or not Kishi showed a female with dreams like Kiba's and Shino's because you should look at everyone as an individual and not as a reflection of an entire race or gender.

Suppose there was a race of green people. This race is a small race that only consists of 5 people (Joe, Sue, Lisa, Mark and Bob). Let's say that you only saw 4 of those green people and all 4 of them only ate broccoli for every meal. Just because that is all you see, doesn't really mean that Joe the green guy can't be a meat lover, nor does it mean that green people in general like broccoli. There are no rules nor exceptions to the rules. It could just turn out to be that Sue, Lisa, Mark and Bob all happen to really like broccoli.

That is the problem with society. People are so quick to see a small sample of a group of people doing something, and then jump to the conclusion that this small sample portrays the entire group. Because of the fact that society has this problem, people are quick to even look at fiction and other media and assume that the creator of said media is firing shots at a whole group whenever they show one or two members of a group acting a certain way.

For instance: We all know that Ino and Mei are pretty shallow. However, can people ever just say, "Ino and Mei are shallow"? No! It always has to turn into "All females are being portrayed as shallow because Ino and Mei are shallow".

People have really got to stop lumping groups. I don't care if you see 1000 people of a group acting a certain way. That just means that 1000 people of that group have that individual personality. That says nothing about person number 1001.

We don't need diversity. We just need people to stop lumping whole groups as one big unit! When people start advocating for stuff like diversity and for whole groups, that is when stuff like racism, feminism, the male counterpart to feminism (don't know what it is called), and affirmative action is born. You may say that some of this stuff is just advocating for the proper treatment of these groups, but at the end of the day it just results in reverse discrimination against the group that was supposedly the oppressor (and yes I am black and I am saying this).



This is the problem with society.

 

[The Sach]

Actually that's a good point. Fact is Kishi potrayted most of the side female characters in almost similar way, and these characters have almost lost their significance at this moment.
Hinata, Mei, Tsunade, Ino all of them are almost having similar dreams as if they don't have any other things to do in life. This is what I call failure of Naruto manga.U_U
And Tenten's dream was stupid, what were you trying to create there Kishi, humour?:|

 

[MinaButt]

Actually that's a good point. Fact is Kishi potrayted most of the side female characters in almost similar way, and this characters have almost lost their significance at this moment.
Hinata, Mei, Tsunade, Ino all of them are almost having similar dreams as if they don't have any other things to do in life. This is what I call failure of Naruto manga.U_U
And Tenten's dream was stupid, what were you trying to create there Kishi, humour?:|

I agree. TenTen's dream sucked. She should have shown her being strong like Tsunade or something.

 

[To Whatever]

Tenten is the only not sexist dream, but her dream was pretty stupid anyway.

Tenten is the straight man of Team Guy so her panel makes sense:

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Kishi is making light of that. We all know that recently, the spin off series asked Kishi personally to design Hanabi for part 2. It's no coinedence that Hanabi appeared in the most recent chapter and in the spin off.

Tenten dream is for her teammates to be respectable members of society and cool and classy people.​

 

[The Sach]

I agree. TenTen's dream sucked. She should have shown her being strong like Tsunade or something.

Almost all the dreams sucked, except Shino's, which I found interesting in totally twisted way.>_O
I always thought that Tenten had a lot of potential as a character, but Kishi missed a big opportunity there. She could have been portrayed as a female counterpart of Lee considering her unique fighting style.u.u

 

[Kira was Righteous]

Strongest character in Naruto is a woman doesnt mean hes not sexist but still its at least something for all you feminists out there.

 

[chaos control]

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that we only saw a small part of everyone's dream? For instance, do you really think that all Tenten desires in her life is for Lee and Guy to be normal?

 

[awesomeseimei]

I see your point here, but the real problem is society's emphasis on diversity and lumping people in general. People should not really put race or gender labels on people for anything besides logical purposes (such as medical purposes, bathroom purposes in the case of gender, etc...). It should not matter whether or not Kishi showed a female with dreams like Kiba's and Shino's because you should look at everyone as an individual and not as a reflection of an entire race or gender.

Suppose there was a race of green people. This race is a small race that only consists of 5 people (Joe, Sue, Lisa, Mark and Bob). Let's say that you only saw 4 of those green people and all 4 of them only ate broccoli for every meal. Just because that is all you see, doesn't really mean that Joe the green guy can't be a meat lover, nor does it mean that green people in general like broccoli. There are no rules nor exceptions to the rules. It could just turn out to be that Sue, Lisa, Mark and Bob all happen to really like broccoli.

That is the problem with society. People are so quick to see a small sample of a group of people doing something, and then jump to the conclusion that this small sample portrays the entire group. Because of the fact that society has this problem, people are quick to even look at fiction and other media and assume that the creator of said media is firing shots at a whole group whenever they show one or two members of a group acting a certain way.

For instance: We all know that Ino and Mei are pretty shallow. However, can people ever just say, "Ino and Mei are shallow"? No! It always has to turn into "All females are being portrayed as shallow because Ino and Mei are shallow".

People have really got to stop lumping groups. I don't care if you see 1000 people of a group acting a certain way. That just means that 1000 people of that group have that individual personality. That says nothing about person number 1001.

We don't need diversity. We just need people to stop lumping whole groups as one big unit! When people start advocating for stuff like diversity and for whole groups, that is when stuff like racism, feminism, the male counterpart to feminism (don't know what it is called), and affirmative action is born. You may say that some of this stuff is just advocating for the proper treatment of these groups, but at the end of the day it just results in reverse discrimination against the group that was supposedly the oppressor (and yes I am black and I am saying this).



This is the problem with society.

That's true, I guess I misused the word. I didn't mean to start discussion about human society in general (that's too big of a can of worms). My concern is with the way Kishi chose to write it. And to me it's not that big of a deal, but more of a minor annoyance. We are too used to worse things that the action genre does to women (and seriously, these issues are all over, most obviously all those "sexist" revealing outfits) that we are prone to noticing them and criticizing the authors based on these, or anything close.

 

[The Sach]

Also, did it ever occur to anyone that we only saw a small part of everyone's dream? For instance, do you really think that all Tenten desires in her life is for Lee and Guy to be normal?

Of course we know that but Kishi knows that too right? So that means Kishi should have written that portion in better way with better portrayal of character right?:|

 

[chaos control]

Of course we know that but Kishi knows that too right? So that means Kishi should have written that portion in better way with better portrayal of character right?:|

It is not bad portrayal though. People are just looking for ways to criticize. Love does not equal sexism.

 

[Vapid]

You forgot the fact that all of the kunoichi shown were big-breasted, useless, male-dependent fodders, save for Tenten.

 

[The Sach]

It is not bad portrayal though. People are just looking for ways to criticize. Love does not equal sexism.

I am not talking about love being sexism, I was taking about poor portrayal of a character, and Kishi's double standards while giving character development to male and female characters.

 

[Magika]

But where r the kitchens?