Location: Valley of the End Distance: Jiraiya on Hashiramas head, Itachi on Madara's so about 50 meters Intel: Full for both sides Conditions: Jiraiya starts in SM, Itachi does not have cancer Restrictions: None, might change if people think one side slaughters the other
Location: Valley of the End Distance: Jiraiya on Hashiramas head, Itachi on Madara's so about 50 meters Intel: Full for both sides Conditions: Jiraiya starts in SM, Itachi does not have cancer Restrictions: None, might change if people think one side slaughters the other
Considering nothing in Jiraiya's entire arsenal can effectively destroy Susanoo (or bypass Yata for that matter), Jiraiya takes the loss here. Given that Itachi is healthy, Jiraiya won't be able to play the survival game and let Itachi wear himself out. Continued Susanoo & Amaterasu assaults put J-Man down after a good five minutes of stalling.
Itachi low-mid diff. Zero counters to Amaterasu and since J-man even stated Genjutsu was his primary weakness, it'll be the key factor to end this match.
The state of ones body does effect the chakra and usage of the substance. Just like how a drugged Jiraiya couldn't manage to pull forth his full strength, and an elder Hiruzen had issues with the Shadow Clone jutsu. Only using it at the end of the battle, when it was said it was apart of his usual repertoire.
Swamp underworld could stuck itachi for a while, so J-man can prep frog song but idk if J-man has the speed feats to dodge ama.... so i give it to itachi high diff
The state of ones body does effect the chakra and usage of the substance. Just like how a drugged Jiraiya couldn't manage to pull forth his full strength, and an elder Hiruzen had issues with the Shadow Clone jutsu. Only using it at the end of the battle, when it was said it was apart of his usual repertoire.
The state of ones body does effect the chakra and usage of the substance. Just like how a drugged Jiraiya couldn't manage to pull forth his full strength, and an elder Hiruzen had issues with the Shadow Clone jutsu. Only using it at the end of the battle, when it was said it was apart of his usual repertoire.
I understand, but there is this myth going around that a heathy Itachi can spam MS techniques with little drawback. I think people need to first realize Itachi is not Sasuke, he is not Indras reincarnation so even if he was healthy, his usage of them would be no where near Sasukes level we have seen. I think people believe Itachi can use them just as much as Sasuke but we cannot just assume he can, especially since he is not Indra and also because its pure speculation, which is inadmissible in versus colosseum
I understand, but there is this myth going around that a heathy Itachi can spam MS techniques with little drawback. I think people need to first realize Itachi is not Sasuke, he is not Indras reincarnation so even if he was healthy, his usage of them would be no where near Sasukes level we have seen. I think people believe Itachi can use them just as much as Sasuke but we cannot just assume he can, especially since he is not Indra and also because its pure speculation, which is inadmissible in versus colosseum
Actually due to the fact that Itachi has more experience and has unlocked his own eye techniques more than anyone else by himself, he should be able to use them as much as Sasuke if not more. Being Indra's reincarnation doesn't give you an instant win. Itachi too is related to Indra, even if distantly, and because of that his chakra is still going to be immense.
Recently, I've seen a few threads which pit SM Jiraiya against MS users. My first thoughts were "obviously he loses," but after thinking about it I can see how he counters their arsenal and wins the battle. So I made this thread to show how he can defeat a MS user under these conditions:
Jiraiya starts in Sage Mode with Ma and Pa on his shoulders
Jiraiya has full intel on Amaterasu
(Note: By Mangekyou Sharingan, I mean Madara/Sasuke/Itachi, not Obito/Kakashi)
Countering Amaterasu
So, I will begin by countering Amaterasu, which is the immediate problem for Jiraiya. We all know that Amaterasu burns anything in the caster's line of sight:
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However, if Jiraiya's opponent cannot directly see him, he cannot light Jiraiya on fire. Since Jiraiya has full intel on Amaterasu, he knows this and can have Ma spit out her Senpō: Fūton Sunabokori.
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This dust cloud, which is big enough to hide even a large summon like Gamabunta, prevents the opponent from eyeing their target and therefore, Jiraiya will not be nailed by Amaterasu. While it is true that the sharingan can distinguish chakra by its color, and detect Jiraiya's whereabouts through the dust cloud, it is not true that Jiraiya's opponent will be able to use amaterasu on him. Seeing their chakra and deducing their whereabouts is different from physically seeing a person. If a MS user could do that, it would not be neccessary to eye their target to ignite them. Also, Jiraiya's own sensory abilities will not be hindered by the dust cloud, due to him, Ma, and Pa all having Sage Mode sensing abilities. For extra precaution, Jiraiya can erect his sensing barrier (Kekkai: Tengai Hōjin) to detect who or what enters his sphere of sensing:
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Now Jiraiya is completely safe from Amaterasu and can still sense and fight perfectly fine without even needing his vision. If Jiraiya wants to be REALLY cautious, he can set up a secondary defense against Amaterasu: Hari Jizō.
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If he for some reason exits the dust cloud, he can cover himself up with this hair technique which provides defense from Amaterasu, should it ignite on him. He can follow up with Senpō: Kebari Senbon, which shoots needles from his hair, needles which were lit on black flames and are no longer on his person.
Moving on to: countering genjutsu.
Sharingan-based genjutsu is also visually-based genjutsu. The dust cloud's purpose is not just for Amaterasu: it also obscures the area and breaks eye contact between Jiraiya and his opponent. With the dust cloud up and Jiraiya's vision down, he cannot look into his opponent's eyes and therefore cannot get caught in a genjutsu. The dust cloud successfully broke the link of vision between six pairs of Rinnegan:
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So there's no reason why it would break any eye contact between Jiraiya and his opponent. Even if by some absurd way Jiraiya gets caught in a genjutsu, Ma and Pa, whose chakra networks are merged with Jiraiya's, can break him out by disturbing his chakra. Genjutsu is rendered null by the dust cloud, and as a second measure, by Ma and Pa.
Countering Susano'o
The ultimate defense...or is it really? Jiraiya has his own ways to surpass a Susano'o and kill the opponent inside. His best bet is to sink the Susano'o using Swamp of the Underworld (Doton: Yomi Numa).
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As you can see in the scan, even drugged Jiraiya was capable of making a swamp large enough to sink one of Orochimaru's boss snakes. Now let's compare the size of a snake to the size of a Susano'o:
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That is Orochimaru's hydra (smaller than the snake Jiraiya sunk in a swamp), and that is Itachi's V4 Susano'o. If a drugged Jiraiya could immobilize a snake bigger than Susano'o, then a healthy Jiraiya obviously can make a much bigger swamp when he's not drugged. Not to mention, when he is in SM, all his regular jutsu are enhanced to make them much bigger than normal, a prime example being his super big-ball rasengan.
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So we can only guess the huge size of this swamp, which would be so big that outrunning or dodging it would be impossible. If that's somehow not enough, Jiraiya can follow up with Food Cart Destroyer on top of the Susano'o, effectively sinking it even further into the swamp. Gamabunta literally held down a 100% Kurama:
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He can easily sink a Susano'o into a massive swamp by body slamming it with his sheer weight. Now Jiraiya's opponent, along with his Susano'o, is sunk deep in a swamp. If his opponent dispells Susano'o, he would be crushed by the earth or drown in the mud. At this point, Jiraiya can simply wait and outlast his opponent. OR, he can spit out a massive fire jutsu and dry up the swamp, entombing his opponent's Susano'o deep within the earth and giving him a proper burial:
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If by some miracle his opponent somehow digs himself out of the swamp, or if for some reason nothing else works, Fukusaku and Shima can prepare their Frogsong Genjutsu (Magen: Gama Rinshō). Both Itachi and Sasuke were immoblized by Tayuya's flute genjutsu:
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So it would be reasonable to say that MS users have a weakness for sound-based genjutsu, and Gama Rinshō, which is much more powerful than Tayuya's flute genjutsu, would effectively immobilize them, force them to dispell their Susano'o just like Tayuya's genjutsu did, and Jiraiya can finish them the same way he finished three of the six Paths of Pain, with a sword to their back.
In conclusion, I believe that SM Jiraiya under the conditions I listed above will be able to defeat a Mangekyou Sharingan user like MS Sasuke, MS Madara, or MS Itachi.
I understand, but there is this myth going around that a heathy Itachi can spam MS techniques with little drawback. I think people need to first realize Itachi is not Sasuke, he is not Indras reincarnation so even if he was healthy, his usage of them would be no where near Sasukes level we have seen. I think people believe Itachi can use them just as much as Sasuke but we cannot just assume he can, especially since he is not Indra and also because its pure speculation, which is inadmissible in versus colosseum
Which is exactly why "Healthy Itachi" should not be used in the versus colosseum. As to what Healthy Itachi could and could not do is mostly speculation, be prepared to accept and understand everyone's perception and point of view on the matter.
Is it about Jiraiya not having sensing abilities? Because he does, although I didn't go into detail with that post. I can elaborate if needed. Also that thread wasn't specific about whether I was talking about Itachi or Sasuke, so I left out traits which are unique to them (such as Itachi's spirit weapons or Sasuke's other techniques like Kirin.)
I understand, but there is this myth going around that a heathy Itachi can spam MS techniques with little drawback. I think people need to first realize Itachi is not Sasuke, he is not Indras reincarnation so even if he was healthy, his usage of them would be no where near Sasukes level we have seen. I think people believe Itachi can use them just as much as Sasuke but we cannot just assume he can, especially since he is not Indra and also because its pure speculation, which is inadmissible in versus colosseum
I think it's because of the fact that Itachi, while not trying and being dehabilitated from illness, was able to do this with ease.
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If he can do that without trying and little strain as well as having a disease, it makes people question what he could do while not hindered by disease, being serious, and actually trying. It's more Amaterasu than MS or even EMS Sasuke has ever made.
Is it about Jiraiya not having sensing abilities? Because he does, although I didn't go into detail with that post. I can elaborate if needed. Also that thread wasn't specific about whether I was talking about Itachi or Sasuke, so I left out traits which are unique to them (such as Itachi's spirit weapons or Sasuke's other techniques like Kirin.)
Nah just a little bit of other stuff. A shitload of your stuff is spot on tho; it's actually quite good. I'm logging in a bit tho, I'll finish it all tomorrow.
, finally someone gets it.