Quick theory on why Rinnegan requires EMS

[Floydical]

While most people believe Rinnegan requires EMS, some people believe it only requires MS, of which I used to be one of. Recently, however, I came up with a possible reason as to why Rinnegan may in fact require EMS.

Quick background explaining Sharingan progression:

1. 1/2/3 tomoe sharingan, the same doujutsu but upgradable through battle experience alone.

2. MS, the pinnacle of sharingan. Every sharingan technique (unique to that person) becomes accessible once they unlock MS, but they simply have a limited time using it before going blind.

3. EMS, the pinnacle of sharingan + eternal light.

4. Rinnegan, contains all MS abilities, Rinnegan abilities AND ETERNAL LIGHT.

So here is where the theory comes in. As I bolded above, Rinnegan has eternal light. Its obviously implied considering what we've seen regarding the Rinnegan, but since its a sharingan progression, its an important note.

Theory:

The reason Rinnegan requires EMS first is because Rinnegan inherently has its own form of eternal light. So the only way one can achieve Rinnegan abilities + eternal light is if they already controlled a version of MS with eternal light, ie the EMS.

Thoughts, comments, concerns, suggestions?

 

[Davy Jones]

Yes, absolutely agree. EMS is needed not optional. eternal light is needed. only EMS users have ever unlocked it so this is more proof to support the theory

 

[AlastorNazura17]

But only those with Indra and Ashura's chakra can achieve Rinnegan. You need both of their chakra's to mix together.

But otherwise from that, I guess I'd agree.

 

[Floydical]

But only those with Indra and Ashura's chakra can achieve Rinnegan. You need both of their chakra's to mix together.

But otherwise from that, I guess I'd agree.

I don't consider this set in stone. Most people are assuming this translation has no wiggle room. The way I look at it, since Indra and Ashura are the first Senju/Uchiha, all Senju/ Uchiha share their DNA. So its not a requirement to have Indra/Ashura DNA, just Senju/Uchiha which are forms of their DNA.

 

[Transcendence]

Incorrect. The Rin'negan is rooted in Hagoromo's own chakra (presumably it was a mutation from the chakra he inherited from his mother). His chakra was divided dominantly between Ashura and Indra. Only by putting both their chakra's together, can one person achieve the Rin'negan, because you are recreating Rikudou's chakra, which is the Rin'negan itself (explained by Hagoromo when referencing Madara). The EMS is not needed. It's nothing more than a means to use chakra based techniques. The actual chakra is rooted within whoever reincarnated with Indra and or Ashura's chakra. Theoretically, Naruto and Sasuke could share chakra with each other and both acquire the Rin'negan, as they both would have the necessary components for unlocking Hagoromo's chakra.​

 

[NeutralChaos]

While most people believe Rinnegan requires EMS, some people believe it only requires MS, of which I used to be one of. Recently, however, I came up with a possible reason as to why Rinnegan may in fact require EMS.

Quick background explaining Sharingan progression:

1. 1/2/3 tomoe sharingan, the same doujutsu but upgradable through battle experience alone.

2. MS, the pinnacle of sharingan. Every sharingan technique (unique to that person) becomes accessible once they unlock MS, but they simply have a limited time using it before going blind.

3. EMS, the pinnacle of sharingan + eternal light.

4. Rinnegan, contains all MS abilities, Rinnegan abilities AND ETERNAL LIGHT.

So here is where the theory comes in. As I bolded above, Rinnegan has eternal light. Its obviously implied considering what we've seen regarding the Rinnegan, but since its a sharingan progression, its an important note.

Theory:

The reason Rinnegan requires EMS first is because Rinnegan inherently has its own form of eternal light. So the only way one can achieve Rinnegan abilities + eternal light is if they already controlled a version of MS with eternal light, ie the EMS.

Thoughts, comments, concerns, suggestions?

The rinnegan does not require the sharingan at all. You could have a two tomoe and unlock it. It also does not carry any of the mangekyou sharingan techniques. Madara can use Susano'o because it is a technique that uses the brain. The rinnegan is a pair of eyes awakened when having your DNA "mutated" by the ten tails(Hagoromo's chakra).

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Your theory is based on the assumption that infinite light is needed from the MS. This is actually where your theory fall apart. As mentioned by Hagoromo, Rinnegan is awaken by possessing Hagoromo's chkara power.

Hagoromo's chakra power has not been explicitly explain yet - that is how he got Rinnegan when his mother had different dojutsus. However, we know, by missing Ashura and Indra chakra, one can build Hagoromo's. You forgot that Ashura's chakra is more than eternal light. Hashirama's cells are the reason Obito is spamming Kamui easily, and Ashura's chakra can even create a new pair of eyes.

So, as someone said, even Sharingan is not needed. The only thing needed are the chakra of Ashura and Indra, or Rikudo's.

 

[cptenn94]

It really makes ZERO sense for rinnegan to require ems. 2 sets of eyes.

Ems is just a MS that is stronger, and has eternal light.

It would make sense, that you would need to have stronger power, in order to stabilize the strain the MS uses.

You would either need a capatible eye(creating ems), or would need to have equivalent power senju cells.

As it has been said MANY times in the manga, you need senju chakra, and uchiha chakra, to be CAPABLE of unlocking rinnegan. As the sage clarified, it needs a specific senju and specific uchiha(ashura and indra incarnations). NEVER, let me repeat NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE, was it said that you need to have a ems to get rinnegan.

The equation has always been this.

Senju chakra(ashura)+Uchiha chakra(indra)+awakening requirement(emotions, or proper mixture of the chakras)=rinnegan

Never has it even been hinted that it is this equation

Senju chakra(ashura)+Uchiha chakra(indra)+Uchiha chakra(relative of MS user)+awakening requirement= rinnegan.


In fact, it has actually NEVER been stated that you need to even have SHARINGAN to be capable of unlocking rinnegan. Just ashura and indra incarnation chakra.


The only purpose that Sharingan, MS, and EMS have in relation to the sage(based on what the manga has shown so far), is that you need stronger dojutsu in order to read further into the stone tablet.

As obito demonstrated, if you meet the requirements for a higher dojutsu, then you will unlock the lower dojutsu in the process(he skipped 3rd tomoe, and went straight to MS)

In fact MADARA(the only person to truly unlock rinnegan so far(as sasuke just has a one eye, odd sharinnegan, that has not demonstrated known rinnegan powers thusfar)), even hinted that obito could possibly awaken his own rinnegan.

All that said. If ems was indeed a requirement for rinnegan, then your theory would be quite good. Well done!

The manga has not said "you dont need ems to get rinnegan", just the same as it has never directly said "you need ems to get rinnegan"
My above comment, is just that useing the manga logic, and comments have been said in the manga, there just has not been anywhere that it has even been hinted really, that you need ems to get rinnegan.

I am open to the possibility that I am all wrong, and that you do need ems. I just dont think it is based on a conclusion I made based on our manga knowledge.

Either way, have a wonderful night, and have fun debating, discussing, and theorizing.

 

[Floydical]

First off, I want to say thank you to all of you for responding with such great arguments. I honestly felt that the number of people believing EMS was required were in the majority, yet most people on this thread are disagreeing with me. Maybe I mistook the majority of NB's opinion, and for that I thank you guys.

Spoiler

Incorrect. The Rin'negan is rooted in Hagoromo's own chakra (presumably it was a mutation from the chakra he inherited from his mother). His chakra was divided dominantly between Ashura and Indra. Only by putting both their chakra's together, can one person achieve the Rin'negan, because you are recreating Rikudou's chakra, which is the Rin'negan itself (explained by Hagoromo when referencing Madara). The EMS is not needed. It's nothing more than a means to use chakra based techniques. The actual chakra is rooted within whoever reincarnated with Indra and or Ashura's chakra. Theoretically, Naruto and Sasuke could share chakra with each other and both acquire the Rin'negan, as they both would have the necessary components for unlocking Hagoromo's chakra.​

I disagree whole heartedly. You are on the bandwagon of Indra+Ashura = Rinnegan. Does Naruto acquiring Rinnegan really make sense? I strongly believe that people are overly concentrating on the Indra+Ashura stuff. If you ask me, all Senju and Uchiha share their DNA so simply any Senju or Uchiha DNA is as good as Indra or Ashura's.

Spoiler

The rinnegan does not require the sharingan at all. You could have a two tomoe and unlock it. It also does not carry any of the mangekyou sharingan techniques. Madara can use Susano'o because it is a technique that uses the brain. The rinnegan is a pair of eyes awakened when having your DNA "mutated" by the ten tails(Hagoromo's chakra).

If I understand right, you also believe that achieving Hagoromo's chakra through Indra+Ashura = Rinnegan. Like I said above, I don't think this is true and I strongly believe EMS is required.

Spoiler

Your theory is based on the assumption that infinite light is needed from the MS. This is actually where your theory fall apart. As mentioned by Hagoromo, Rinnegan is awaken by possessing Hagoromo's chkara power.

Hagoromo's chakra power has not been explicitly explain yet - that is how he got Rinnegan when his mother had different dojutsus. However, we know, by missing Ashura and Indra chakra, one can build Hagoromo's. You forgot that Ashura's chakra is more than eternal light. Hashirama's cells are the reason Obito is spamming Kamui easily, and Ashura's chakra can even create a new pair of eyes.

Part of Hagoromo's power is his eyes. His elder son had his eyes. Therefore, I believe, you have to have the basic form of the eye at a minimum to get the Rinnegan. I'm referring to the sharingan and I think my theory explains why you need such a progressed form of it (EMS).

So, as someone said, even Sharingan is not needed. The only thing needed are the chakra of Ashura and Indra, or Rikudo's.

Essentially the same arguments as above.

Spoiler

It really makes ZERO sense for rinnegan to require ems. 2 sets of eyes.

Ems is just a MS that is stronger, and has eternal light.

It would make sense, that you would need to have stronger power, in order to stabilize the strain the MS uses.

You would either need a capatible eye(creating ems), or would need to have equivalent power senju cells.

As it has been said MANY times in the manga, you need senju chakra, and uchiha chakra, to be CAPABLE of unlocking rinnegan. As the sage clarified, it needs a specific senju and specific uchiha(ashura and indra incarnations). NEVER, let me repeat NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE, was it said that you need to have a ems to get rinnegan.

The equation has always been this.

Senju chakra(ashura)+Uchiha chakra(indra)+awakening requirement(emotions, or proper mixture of the chakras)=rinnegan

Never has it even been hinted that it is this equation

Senju chakra(ashura)+Uchiha chakra(indra)+Uchiha chakra(relative of MS user)+awakening requirement= rinnegan.


In fact, it has actually NEVER been stated that you need to even have SHARINGAN to be capable of unlocking rinnegan. Just ashura and indra incarnation chakra.


The only purpose that Sharingan, MS, and EMS have in relation to the sage(based on what the manga has shown so far), is that you need stronger dojutsu in order to read further into the stone tablet.

As obito demonstrated, if you meet the requirements for a higher dojutsu, then you will unlock the lower dojutsu in the process(he skipped 3rd tomoe, and went straight to MS)

In fact MADARA(the only person to truly unlock rinnegan so far(as sasuke just has a one eye, odd sharinnegan, that has not demonstrated known rinnegan powers thusfar)), even hinted that obito could possibly awaken his own rinnegan.

All that said. If ems was indeed a requirement for rinnegan, then your theory would be quite good. Well done!

The manga has not said "you dont need ems to get rinnegan", just the same as it has never directly said "you need ems to get rinnegan"
My above comment, is just that useing the manga logic, and comments have been said in the manga, there just has not been anywhere that it has even been hinted really, that you need ems to get rinnegan.

I am open to the possibility that I am all wrong, and that you do need ems. I just dont think it is based on a conclusion I made based on our manga knowledge.

Either way, have a wonderful night, and have fun debating, discussing, and theorizing.

But directly talking about Indra's DNA IS talking about Sharingan. Indra had Sharingan from the start, so to say Indra's chakra is required but not the Sharingan itself is illogical. My other responses apply to yours as well, but I think Sharingan is a requirement, because its part of the elder son's DNA, in addition to EMS, the final form of the sharingan, and Senju and Uchiha DNA, no specifically Ashura and Indra.

This next part is for all of you to look at. Middle right panel:

Spoiler

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It directly states that EMS WAS ONLY HALF OF THE STORY! In addition to unlocking an EMS, the transplant gave birth to a completely new Doujutsu. I believe that doujutsu was Rinnegan.