WalksInShadows
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this would be a semi plausible theory if Hagoromo wasn't already telling Sasuke and Naruto that the genjutsu being in effect will mean game over for everyone. Pretty sure that includes the Hyuga :erm:
Hyuga clan Breaking Out Infinite Tsukyomi
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Hyuga Prodigy
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Yeah and then guess what, Villain will always end up losing in every typical shonen series
WalksInShadows
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and what does spelling this obvious fact out have to do with the thread. Oh yeah, nothing
Hyuga Prodigy
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I'm just saying, this one is probably one of the most plausible things to happen aside to Sasuke and Narutoand what does spelling this obvious fact out have to do with the thread. Oh yeah, nothing
The Demon Hawk
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I don't know whether you are overestimating the Hyugas or underestimating the Tsukuyomi, but your assumptions are quite fallacious.
I know very well that Hyugas can tell that they or other people are under genjutsu due to the unrivaled insight vision of Byakugan, and since they have the best chakra control of all ninjas, they can even dispel genjutsu (ordinary one), but they cannot break the TSUKUYOMI. Tsukuyomi is no ordinary genjutsu. It cannot be broken no matter how perfect a ninja's chakra control is. Disrupting chakra is NOT a counter to Tsukuyomi. That is why jinchuurikis can't break it since all a bijuu does is disrupt the flow of chakra, and that is ineffective against Tsukuyomi (the reason why I have my doubts regarding Naruto's case). The Hyugas can control their chakra, stop the flow or even disrupt it, which can effectively dispel genjutsu, but a powerful genjutsu like Tsukuyomi cannot be broken by these methods. Itachi said that ONLY a Sharingan user with the same blood as him can break the Tsukuyomi. Kakashi could see through genjutsu but he could not break it.
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Besides, if Tsukuyomi was that pathetic, then Hagoromo had no reason to acknowledge his inferiority to his mother. Its activation signified the end of the world. Hagoromo is hinting the severity of that genjutsu by the statement "If nothing it done to stop that from happening, the world will come to an end".
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Bijuus can only disrupt the flow of chakra, which is how genjutsu is broken. But since Tsukuyomi cannot be broken by the disruption in chakra flow, bijuus are just a useless as Byakugan. Naruto can only break it due to what you are calling "Jesus powers" or perhaps he cannot break it.
Jiraiya was talking about genjutsu in general. Tsukuyomi is not an ordinary genjutsu as I explained. It cannot be broken by stopping the chakra flow or disrupting chakra. Now matter how much power you put, now matter how great and precise your chakra control is, you are still vulnerable to Tsukuyomi.
This is the point where your argument gets HEAVILY flawed. I have already given a scan above where Itachi states the conditions for breaking Tsukuyomi. Only a Sharingan user with the same blood can break the Tsukuyomi. Itachi knows very well how a genjutsu can be broken. Genjutsu is broken by controlling chakra and disrupting it. It can be done in various ways. For example, one can control the flow of chakra within oneself like Kakashi, Gai and Sakura broke Orochimaru's genjutsu.
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Yes...
Other way round... Hyugas can't do shit to Tsukuyomi...
Itachi's Tsukuyomi can be countered by keeping the eyes closed, but IT can't be countered in that way.
The same explanation for this section. Tsukuyomi cannot be broken by "Genjutsu Dissipation".
Not a plausible counter...
FemmeFatale
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Don't try to throw Sakura under the bus,
She has more of a chance than any Hyuuga
For one. She a genjutsu type.
Two, her hype
Three, her chakra is constantly disrupted, and didn't jirayah say something about genjutsu with someone who can control their chakra perfectly.
Hyuga Prodigy
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No I`m fully aware how strong Tsukyomi is but I don`t know what made me change my mind all of the sudden which perhaps I probably had forgotten about the fundamental aspect of Tsukyomi which I thought having best chakra reserve would break out like every genjutsu but I guess you do have points about the Bijuu who has enormous amount of chakra cannot break out only if you had someone by your side that can support you like how Hachibi snap Killer bee or Chiyo and Sakura helped Naruto by disrupting it or if you have the same Uchiha sharingan bloodline.
Only this basis alone would be game over for Hyuga, but other than that regardless the Hyuga would not able to get caught under `Itachi Tsukyomi``
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Hyuga Prodigy
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Sakura is indeed good at Chakra control and Genjutsu type but unfortunately I disagree. The Hyuga are better chance at resisting the Genjutsu than Sakura.
- If Sakura get caught under genjutsu she wouldn`t realize it however Hyuga clan are capable of being more aware thanks to the Byakugan they can tell by looking the flow of the chakra and chakra sensory capabilities and as well it has Vast focus ability.
- It was said that the Hyuga are the best in chakra control so in other word, Hyuga can easily dispel it
- Lastly, The Hyuga have more better chance of getting immune to Genjutsu than Sakura can because they can simply close their eyes relying on their byakugan vision
The Demon Hawk
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First of all, you gain my admiration for your acknowledgement spirit regarding your mistake... +rep
Hachibi snapping Killer Bee out of genjutsu:
A lot of people misapprehend Sasuke's genjutsu to be "Tsukuyomi". Sasuke had the regular Sharingan genjutsu, albeit a more powerful version, stemming out of his MS, but not Tsukuyomi. His left eye ignites Amaterasu and his right eye manipulates them. Those are his MS powers.
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People usually interpret it as: "Compared to Itachi's Tsukuyomi, your Tsukuyomi is far below".
The actual interpretation is: "Compared to Itachi's Tsukuyomi where he could alter your perception of time at his whim, your genjutsu (which is not the Tsukuyomi so it cannot alter your perception of time) is far below".
Also, when Sasuke caught Danzo under genjutsu, he said "I'll commend you for actually trapping me in an illusion". If it were Tsukuyomi, he would have specifically mentioned it, since calling Tsukuyomi as just "an illusion" does not match up to its hype.
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This implies Sasuke's genjutsu (which isn't the Tsukuyomi) is quite inferior to Itachi's genjutsu (which is the Tsukuyomi).
What Sasuke used on Killer Bee was a paralysis genjutsu. Killer Bee was like "I can't move".
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Similarly, Hyugas can break out of Sasuke's genjutsu since they naturally have the best chakra control of any ninja clan, and they can disrupt it. Tsukuyomi is a different story though.
Sakura and Chiyo snapping Naruto out of genjutsu:
What Itachi used on Naruto was a Sharingan genjutsu, not Tsukuyomi. There are two points which will prove my statement.
1. Tsukuyomi requires eye contact to establish, but Itachi cast genjutsu on Naruto without eye contact which startled Naruto. This implies it wasn't Tsukuyomi.
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Actually, it is game over for Hyugas even against "Itachi's Tsukuyomi".
But to be honest, Hyugas have the best chance of anyone to fight Itachi without being caught in Tsukuyomi since it requires DIRECT eye contact. Byakugan can see everything with eyes closed so putting them under Tsukuyomi is impossible. Also, Byakugan's 360 degree vision will be significantly helpful since a Byakugan user can perceive Itachi's movements without exposing their eyes. But, once Tsukuyomi is launched, they are done for it.
BTW, thanks for the rep...
RinneBlitz
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The only known Hyuugas that are on the battlefield are Hinata and Hiashi, perhaps Ko too. The other are fodders man.
Nice theory. I am not sure Kish will take the time to develop this sort of hyuga background out or not. There seems to be a vey large fan desire to have some of the holes with the SO6P's brother plugged and general loose strings tied. It's just that Kishi seems to be in a hurry to wrap things up, IMO.
This theory would be a setup for TnJ whereby Naruto coaxes the "good Kaguya" out of Madara as a means to take him down. Anything is possible.
I am one of those still hoping against hope that Kishi will slow the instant power-ups down and fill in some of the plot holes.
This theory would be a setup for TnJ whereby Naruto coaxes the "good Kaguya" out of Madara as a means to take him down. Anything is possible.
I am one of those still hoping against hope that Kishi will slow the instant power-ups down and fill in some of the plot holes.
Hyuga Prodigy
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Well it's your hard effort that made me acknowledge your dedication thanks to all the list of facts that you laid out really helps me realize my mistakes, because I'm the type of guy who come's to being open mind. So for that particular reason I should be thanking you or else I would run wild without realizing the error on part of my argument.
Oh no I'm referring to the fight with Edo Itachi vs Killer Bee .
Fighting Itachi Bee get caught in Tsukyomi when he looked at his eyes . When he destroyed Itachi's illusion Hachibi realized it was an illusion and snapped him out.
If Bee starts receiving damage from Tsukuyomi Hachibi would notice right away.
When Hachibi pokes Bee he is instantly able to fight again.
Here we still see illusionary crow which turns to be a shuriken — Bee reacts immediately.
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Anyway you got really good point how Itachi was only using regular Sharingan Genjutsu without directly looking at Itachi eyes when Naruto get caught under Genjutsu but it still doesn't take away how Jiryiaya explained you need someone to support and supply chakra to disrupt it like Hachibi snapped Bee. I mean this is the other best way scenario to break out other than you have to born lucky that matches the same Sharingan bloodline.
Theoretically speaking Have you forgot how Ao with his eye shut was able to deduce Danzo with Shisui eyes (The greatest Genjutsu of all time ) by directly looking through the eyes so more likely they're more immune to it .
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Hyuga Prodigy
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Yea atleast that would make them 2 hyugas rather than whole bunches of hyugas clan members although they will still probably get caught under Infinite Tsukyomi but regardless they will do something by preventing everyone fallen from being manupilated and then together they will somehow break out or something to make impact.
I think this series will end by 2015 because there's still alot that needs to be answer like Tenten roles, what will become the infinite Tsukyomi, who is the sage brother, Orochimaru scheme, unrevealed Spiral Zetsu, Black Zetsu still lurking around, learning the secret behind Kaguya, Neji possibly come back after Hinata pleaded, and Kaguya possibly the FV.
I have two questions.
1. If Kaguya came from the moon, and the current ninja mythology says that the moon was placed in the sky by the Sage of Six Paths, then what's going on?
2. Mifune was able to detect genjutsu being cast on someone else. Would it have been a different story if the genjutsu were being cast on him? It is one thing to be able to realize you're under a genjutsu. Usually people know that they're in one. It's another thing to be able to escape.
I don't think that Mifune is a very good example. I think it would be more useful to try to figure out if any byakugan user had genjutsu specifically cast on them and see whether (and how) they handled it. One place to look would be the Chuunin exams. Hanabi and Hinata's father were sitting together in the audience. Did they participate in any of the fighting or did they fall asleep like everyone else?
And if Hinata's father fought would his ability to avoid genjutsu be any more special than any other soldier's ability to avoid the genjutsu? Or would it have been due to his byakugan? And how would we know? Because if he's participating in the fight his escape happened off-panel.
Other examples are needed.
1. If Kaguya came from the moon, and the current ninja mythology says that the moon was placed in the sky by the Sage of Six Paths, then what's going on?
2. Mifune was able to detect genjutsu being cast on someone else. Would it have been a different story if the genjutsu were being cast on him? It is one thing to be able to realize you're under a genjutsu. Usually people know that they're in one. It's another thing to be able to escape.
I don't think that Mifune is a very good example. I think it would be more useful to try to figure out if any byakugan user had genjutsu specifically cast on them and see whether (and how) they handled it. One place to look would be the Chuunin exams. Hanabi and Hinata's father were sitting together in the audience. Did they participate in any of the fighting or did they fall asleep like everyone else?
And if Hinata's father fought would his ability to avoid genjutsu be any more special than any other soldier's ability to avoid the genjutsu? Or would it have been due to his byakugan? And how would we know? Because if he's participating in the fight his escape happened off-panel.
Other examples are needed.
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Honord Sage
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Kurenai who is a Master of Genjutsu fell in Battle against Itachi genjutsu and Sakura is nowhere in Kurenai level of Genjutsu.
Honord Sage
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If your theory is correct then Madara must kill every Hyuga to prevent the possibility of a Rebellion occurring. Madara can't afford to have one Hyuga waking up the alliance and the World and finding a way to revive everybody.
Hyuga Prodigy
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1. It's possible Hagoromo sealed his own mother within the Juubi's shell and sent her back to where she came from, the Moon. The reason I suspect she came from the Moon is when she was referred to as the Rabbit Goddess.
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A Moon Goddess and her companion, a rabbit. The story may not be an exact parallel but I'm sure Kishi drew inspiration from there. So the Moon being her home is a possibility.
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2. Danzo with Shishui eye uses Tsukyomi which require Eye Contact to manipulate Mifune to gain his authority but Ao detected him by looking through Danzo chakra network and his eye.
Mifune would not realize that when Tsukyomi being casted simply put if you look at the equation.
In Tsukuyomi, it will take 3 or more days to the victim, but in reality, everything that happens in Tsukyomi will lasts for an instant.
Stuff like that.
Tsukyomi are very different than every other regular Genjutsu because once you get caught you will never break out unless you have the same Sharingan bloodline like Sasuke was able to break out, Someone who can support you and supply chakra to disrupt it like for instance Sakura and Chiyo helped Naruto to prevent fallen into Itachi Genjutsu, or if you have perfect Jinchiruke like for instance Hachibi snapped Bee.
The same thing with Hyuga, it cannot break out, but more immune to Tsukyomi since it has shown that Ao looked through Danzo Shuishi eyes.
Also the Hyuga don't have Genjutsu, but the Byakugan can resist it, and if caught they can dispel it thanks to the chakras reserve.
3. Hiashi was active and fought the sounds/sand ninja during Chuunin war when everyone is fallen under the genjutsu at that time, thus lead me to believe the Hyuga was able to resist Genjutsu at that time.
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Hyuga Prodigy
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Well there only Hinata and Hiashi and these hyuga fodders members don't count and knowing what kishi will do, every hyugas will fallen except Hinata and Hiashi.