Abortion Question.

[Genrou]

As far as I can remember, you are only legally allowed to make a decision regarding an abortion if: (1) You are a parent of a minor, and (2) the woman is pregnant and unconscious and you are the legal husband. As long as the mother is of legal age, conscious, coherent mentally capable in making decisions and it's her signature that's seen in that legally binding Informed Consent, you have no say what she is to do. Everything else is a matter of morals and interests, and may or may not be subjected to any forms of communication that may transpire between the father and the mother.


They did say something about, A woman becomes a mother when she learns about the pregnancy, but the man becomes a father when the baby is delivered.

I don't think it would be wise to quantify who's potential suffering weighs more, when there's an actual existing process that's tangible and present. If pregnancy isn't suffering or torture, and it weren't that difficult as what others deem them to be, there wouldn't be that much emphasis on books about Prepartum Intrapartum and Postpartum management for women.

Pregnancy is a mess. A rollercoaster of a mess, and if they say delivery is as pretty as it sounds, it's not. It's bloody, it's physically demanding and emotionally taxing. You can't say you've known what a pregnancy and delivery is, from a male's point of view, if you haven't been there to watch someone open their legs and stretch their feminine parts from 2cm to a legit 10cm wide and push that baby out after as much as 24 hours of panting and managing the pain. This is something you don't show in movies, this is something you have to see and feel in real life.

Subjecting her to deliver someone she doesn't want, just because you feel the need to be a man and own up, I think is a bit selfish. I get what you mean, you wanna be a father and an honorable one at that. In another universe, parallel or otherwise, I would've wanted that too. But right now in her perspective, a woman does not decide then and there she wants to abort, or abortion counseling wouldn't have existent. She's mulled this over, and she has reconsidered things, especially her support system. To a certain extent, if you are were being a good mate, you were being reconsidered. But ultimately, if she has weighed things and her baby and your opinion is not something she considers to be important, you really don't have a right.

It doesn't end with delivery, it's only the start. There's always the financial and psychological aspect that's almost always never discussed, which are also quite a pain not only to you, but of course to the child and your immediate significant others.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

Raising a child also has physical, medical and financial strain.

Which ones compare to pushing a child out of your vagina?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Maybe we didn't understand each other.

You say that if the father is willing to take the child and raise it on his own for 18 yrs, that's more demanding than 9 months of pregnancy. Well IF the father is so willing to take the child, it means he has no conscience crisis and he takes pleasure in his child. So this should make up for his financial sacrifices.
Also paying a monthly check is one thing, the child has the right to keep in contact with the mother, and it's the mother's obligation as well. Which, the mother may not be comfortable with. It may cause several conflicts and damage the child's personality, however you can say that this is insigificant and still better than killing the unborn child. But if we are measuring emotional and physical pros and cons, this should be considered as well. And paying a monthly check in some cases can be demanding. Especially that you pay for something you didn't want in the first place.
So if the mother wants to avoid this, she can adopt the child, but then the father doesn't have much word either.
Also, what if it's the father who doesn't want the child and the woman wants? Then obviously the woman can have it, but then doesn't this mean the woman has more saying after all? Then why not in the case when she wants to abort it?

1. There are many, many men who are not comfortable with child support and alimony, and have to pay it anyway. Women are no different

2. Just because you find joy in something that is taxing, does not mean that it is no longer taxing. For example, I like lifting weights. That does not mean it isn't hard and taxing. That does not mean the soreness I feel in my body afterwards means nothing and is nonexistent. The same applies to raising a child, there's happy parts, but the stressful parts are not lessened in significance by this.

Which ones compare to pushing a child out of your vagina?

They all do. Physical stress, mental stress and financial stress are equivalent.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

They all do. Physical stress, mental stress and financial stress are equivalent.

Elaborate. Give an example.

 

[Genrou]

Raising a child also has physical, medical and financial strain.

So does pregnancy.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but most insurance companies DO NOT accredit the whole 9 months of pregnancy as anything worth spending for insurance. From your laboratory exams, to prenatal check-ups, to ultrasounds and even to your C-section. No legit insurance company would put it in their terms and conditions to accredit any diagnostic or medical procedure requests related to pregnancy, not even a God damn urinalysis. Since pregnancy is a natural process and doesn't fall on a category labeled "sickness", and of course, it's very costly and wouldn't do well for their business. Anything you ever do about it must come from your own pockets. Harsh, but that's the true story.

 

[Scooby Doo]

1. There are many, many men who are not comfortable with child support and alimony, and have to pay it anyway. Women are no different

2. Just because you find joy in something that is taxing, does not mean that it is no longer taxing. For example, I like lifting weights. That does not mean it isn't hard and taxing. That does not mean the soreness I feel in my body afterwards means nothing and is nonexistent. The same applies to raising a child, there's happy parts, but the stressful parts are not lessened in significance by this.

Okay, but remember that when a man has ***, he is pretty much aware that it's the woman who will get pregnant, not him. So if they don't agree beforehand on what would they do in case of pregnancy, or simply he doesn't agree with the woman but still has *** with her, he should accept the woman's decision. He was aware of the consequences beforehand. He knew the woman can choose abortion, so it'd be unfair if he later asked her to keep the child, if he knew the woman doesn't want it.

And what about my other points?>.>

 

[Punk Hazard]

Elaborate. Give an example.

Mental- A bad relationship with your child. Example, my parents and I have bad relationships and it's led to depression and tension that has felt as bad as if not worse than physical pain.

Financial- Burden of having no money but needing it creates stress, which leads to many other problems, including physical. I've seen my mother crying because of bills, becoming stressed out because of bills, being physically drained because of bills, I doubt that isn't something that feels as bad as physical pain.

Need anymore?

So does pregnancy.

But pregnancy is 9 months, raising a child is 18 years. Would you rather feel the pain of an injection for ten days or a year?

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

Mental- A bad relationship with your child. Example, my parents and I have bad relationships and it's led to depression and tension that has felt as bad as if not worse than physical pain.

Financial- Burden of having no money but needing it creates stress, which leads to many other problems, including physical. I've seen my mother crying because of bills, becoming stressed out because of bills, being physically drained because of bills, I doubt that isn't something that feels as bad as physical pain.

Need anymore?

A physical one.

 

[Punk Hazard]

A physical one.

My point is that physical tax(pregnancy) can be just as bad as the mental(bad relationships) and financial(need money) taxes of raising someone for 18 years.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

My point is that physical tax(pregnancy) can be just as bad as the mental(bad relationships) and financial(need money) taxes of raising someone for 18 years.

Give me a physical example.

 

[Genrou]

But pregnancy is 9 months, raising a child is 18 years. Would you rather feel the pain of an injection for ten days or a year?

Blubbit said it.

There's what I was looking for. This statement right here. You firmly believe. That's good. Honestly your intentions are not bad. Of course, I firmly believe that the father deserves the right to voice his opinion on the matter before decisions are made, but ultimately the decision is the mother's in the very end.

But the key words here are "I firmly believe". You firmly believe that something you will never go through is less taxing than something you may or may not go through, but haven't.

I don't think it would be wise to quantify who's potential suffering weighs more, when there's an actual existing process that's tangible and present.

 

[Scooby Doo]

......the ****ing point is that these taxes the man go through is equivalent to the physical tax the woman go through. Seriously, do you not understand what equivalent means?

But it's the woman who shall estimate if it's equivalent to her or not. She can say it's not worth to her. You may say then she is selfish and what not, but it won't change the fact that in the end it's her decision, whether you like it or not.

 

[lordcold]

Of all the countless threads on the internet you post it in a naruto one

 

[Punk Hazard]

But it's the woman who shall estimate if it's equivalent to her or not. She can say it's not worth to her. You may say then she is selfish and what not, but it won't change the fact that in the end it's her decision, whether you like it or not.

I can still voice my opinion on the matter.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I can still voice my opinion on the matter.

I didn't say you can't. You have valid points.

 

[A e r o]

I can't see it. I feel the mother has the most say in the matter, the mother is giving birth not the father. If the mother doesn't want the baby the father should repect her wishes instead of forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I think the mother should go with it if the father wants the baby.

 

[EnDash]

somehow i think if men had to carry the baby and give birth to it we wouldn't be having this conversation.

raising a child for 18 years is not easy, but pregnancy can cause stress issues, anxiety, mental disorders and immense physical pain. and theres a high chance the woman will die during birthing. to ask anyone to go through with it for someone else's sake without their consent is cruel. i'm sorry for the fathers views and beliefes, but with me the woman is taking precedence because she is asked to take the higher risk.

 

[assface3]

Hell no.

Abortions should be forced on women. Then, we can cut the human population down by a good 50% eventually.

Less humans = less problems.

 

[Avani]

So I was thinking that if a guy got a women pregnant, and the women didn't want to have the child(abortion), but the dad was willing to raise it on his own, that there should be a law that can stop the women from having the abortion and going through with the pregnancy, so the dad can take care of the child. The child has just as much of the fathers DNA in it as well as the mothers. What do you guys think?

Sure. Get the fetus and implant in your own body. Or get one who is willing to put up with your DNA rather than force someone to keep you DNA signature alive. If you just want a baby there are plenty who can use a caring parent. Otherwise you are not thinking about a life just someone to carry that DNA and ready to force it on an unwilling person regardless of what she wants or goes through for it and beyond. Life, feelings, physical and mental well being or problems and wishes of that woman are meaningless for you and she is just a womb to you for a baby like that castles you own for milk and wool.

somehow i think if men had to carry the baby and give birth to it we wouldn't be having this conversation.

raising a child for 18 years is not easy, but pregnancy can cause stress issues, anxiety, mental disorders and immense physical pain. and theres a high chance the woman will die during birthing. to ask anyone to go through with it for someone else's sake without their consent is cruel. i'm sorry for the fathers views and beliefes, but with me the woman is taking precedence because she is asked to take the higher risk.

Yep.