Abortion Question.

[SonictheHedgehog]

I agree with rikersalad, a man should have a say in the abortion and a woman should keep the baby and only on extreme circumstances even think of aborting, i do not condone abortion and rebuke it.

If you don't want a baby don't practice unsafe *** or rather yet practice abstinence.

Glad you added on the abstinence part, because you can have *** safe and still get a baby. Also, what if they're married and the woman still doesn't want a baby?

Furthermore abortion is a sin as regardless of the mother housing the baby or not it is a living being and deserves a fair shot at life.

Not everyone's religious...

This thread, especially Youth and Full Power's arguments, are basically "How dare you say the man's and child's needs matter more? No one's needs matter more. Except the women, their needs matter more."

There's not a hierarchy for needs, but since you guys who are arguing against the points I'm making want to base this on morality I'm simply showing you how it is. A woman isn't obligated to even carry your child just because you want something.

 

[Blubbit]

No, I am not a father. Explain to me how that means the love a father has for child is lessened in intensity or meaning in any way, or how that means raising a child is any easier. You can't, this question is irrelevant as ****, whether or not I'm a father does not mean raising a child is any less strenuous. Try actually rebuttalling to what I'm saying instead of dodging around with bullshit.

Settle down there sir, I was just asking a question. It helps me formulate thoughts.

Now here's something to think about, raising a child has a lot of many things to offer. There will be stressful times but it's filled with many happy times as well. You never know how it will turn out. You never say you endured raising a child.

You endure labor on the other hand. The fact that it's even called labor states something, because labor by definition is "work, especially hard physical work". You can't predict how a childhood will go about there are many different factors and such, other kids, personalities, interactions, etc. Labor is pain. It is pain, and potentially death, all to bring a child into the world, and getting pregnant doesn't even guarantee the child will live, and if it doesn't that's a whole lot more pain.

Now when raising a child is nothing but that, then you can say you have an argument, but it's not. There's more to it, and some aren't ready to face childbirth, and some don't want to face it again. Some don't want children, but like *** or were raped. Now with that, you want to force them to go through pain they don't want to endure and your only defense is "suck it up, raising a child is more strenuous". Do you know how pitiful your argument sounds now that I've revealed that? Yes, I believe the father's love can surpass the mother's dread for pregnancy, but that's where it starts. That's her body, what she has to go through regardless if she wants. Why don't you suck it up?

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

Youth, you're basically saying I'm wrong for putting one's needs ahead of another(man over woman), when you yourself are putting the woman's needs over the man's and child's. If I am wrong, then you are wrong for doing the same thing I'm doing with flipped roles.

Let's say you're right. Since you're basing this off of morality, what's morally sound about making someone else suffer because you can't get what you want?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Settle down there sir, I was just asking a question. It helps me formulate thoughts.

Now here's something to think about, raising a child has a lot of many things to offer. There will be stressful times but it's filled with many happy times as well. You never know how it will turn out. You never say you endured raising a child.

You endure labor on the other hand. The fact that it's even called labor states something, because labor by definition is "work, especially hard physical work". You can't predict how a childhood will go about there are many different factors and such, other kids, personalities, interactions, etc. Labor is pain. It is pain, and potentially death, all to bring a child into the world, and getting pregnant doesn't even guarantee the child will live, and if it doesn't that's a whole lot more pain.

Now when raising a child is nothing but that, then you can say you have an argument, but it's not. There's more to it, and some aren't ready to face childbirth, and some don't want to face it again. Some don't want children, but like *** or were raped. Now with that, you want to force them to go through pain they don't want to endure and your only defense is "suck it up, raising a child is more strenuous". Do you know how pitiful your argument sounds now that I've revealed that?

Just because there is more to it does not mean raising a child isn't taxing emotionally and physically, just like pregnancy is. Get this through, 18 years of emotional and physical tax>9 months of emotional and physical tax. 24 times more. PERIOD.

Let's say you're right. Since you're basing this off of morality, what's morally sound about making someone else suffer because you can't get what you want?

I'm not looking at this from a moral standpoint. I'm looking at this from a standpoint of justice. 9 months of tax is fully justified by the fact that the man will go through 18 years of tax. Not only that, but pregnancy is not suffering, it isn't torture.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

I'm not looking at this from a moral standpoint. I'm looking at this from a standpoint of justice. 9 months of tax is fully justified by the fact that the man will go through 18 years of tax. Not only that, but pregnancy is not suffering, it isn't torture.

@Bold: Dude...

@Everything else: You have a right to say that once you've busted your ***** open for a human being. Is a dude not getting what he wants torture?

 

[Punk Hazard]

@Bold: Dude...

@Everything else: You have a right to say that once you've busted your ***** open for a human being. Is a dude not getting what he wants torture?

I suppose then unless I get kidnapped or become bedfellows with a bullet or knife, I can't say murder and kidnapping is wrong.

 

[Blubbit]

Just because there is more to it does not mean raising a child isn't taxing emotionally and physically, just like pregnancy is. Get this through, 18 years of emotional and physical tax>9 months of emotional and physical tax. 24 times more. PERIOD.


I'm not looking at this from a moral standpoint. I'm looking at this from a standpoint of justice. 9 months of tax is fully justified by the fact that the man will go through 18 years of tax. Not only that, but pregnancy is not suffering, it isn't torture.

Here's the issue, you feel that just because it's longer it's more taxing yes? That's what I've been seeing. You always mention 9 months compared to 18 years. That's your defense.

Just because your suffer longer, doesn't make your suffering more severe. Let's use what I've just said and compare it to something else. Getting picked on at school. Gettong bullied. Not good right? Well that doesn't last forever and there's always opportunity for happiness. It's a long time top, usually. Then there's torture. Being forced to go through pain for hours on end with the chance you might die. In these two situations, who you tell to suck it up?

Noe obviously that is an extreme comparison, but do you see what I'm getting at? I'm not saying that raising a child isn't demanding, I'm saying that what's being demanded with labor is worse.

 

[Blubbit]

Just because there is more to it does not mean raising a child isn't taxing emotionally and physically, just like pregnancy is. Get this through, 18 years of emotional and physical tax>9 months of emotional and physical tax. 24 times more. PERIOD.


I'm not looking at this from a moral standpoint. I'm looking at this from a standpoint of justice. 9 months of tax is fully justified by the fact that the man will go through 18 years of tax. Not only that, but pregnancy is not suffering, it isn't torture.

Torture - the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

Not gonna lie bro, it sounds to me that forcing someone to go through labor against their will is torture.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Here's the issue, you feel that just because it's longer it's more taxing yes? That's what I've been seeing. You always mention 9 months compared to 18 years. That's your defense.

Just because your suffer longer, doesn't make your suffering more severe. Let's use what I've just said and compare it to something else. Getting picked on at school. Gettong bullied. Not good right? Well that doesn't last forever and there's always opportunity for happiness. It's a long time top, usually. Then there's torture. Being forced to go through pain for hours on end with the chance you might die. In these two situations, who you tell to suck it up?

Noe obviously that is an extreme comparison, but do you see what I'm getting at? I'm not saying that raising a child isn't demanding, I'm saying that what's being demanded with labor is worse.

Yeah I understand, but honestly, I firmly believe 9 months of pregnancy, despite the pain, is no where near as taxing as raising a child on your own for 18 years.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

I suppose then unless I get kidnapped or become bedfellows with a bullet or knife, I can't say murder and kidnapping is wrong.

You can, but you can't act like you know what it feels like and tell someone they should toughen up and get over it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can, but you can't act like you know what it feels like and tell someone they should toughen up and get over it.

But it's fair to tell a man to deal with the fact that he was deprived of his child without regard for what he wanted. Okay.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Yeah I understand, but honestly, I firmly believe 9 months of pregnancy, despite the pain, is no where near as taxing as raising a child on your own for 18 years.

I didn't really want to participate in this, but just one thing:

If the woman gives birth to the child, she also has to take care of it, unless it's adopted. Now it's one thing that the father has to pay , but the woman also has to support her child. Even if the father is willing to take the child, then it's the mother who'll have to pay money for 18 yrs.

So either way, the woman has more obligations: pregnancy/labor + support (unless the child is adopted)

 

[Blubbit]

Yeah I understand, but honestly, I firmly believe 9 months of pregnancy, despite the pain, is no where near as taxing as raising a child on your own for 18 years.

There's what I was looking for. This statement right here. You firmly believe. That's good. Honestly your intentions are not bad. Of course, I firmly believe that the father deserves the right to voice his opinion on the matter before decisions are made, but ultimately the decision is the mother's in the very end.

But the key words here are "I firmly believe". You firmly believe that something you will never go through is less taxing than something you may or may not go through, but haven't.

We've reached the point where I wanted, we understand each other. I understand your reasoning, and you understand mine. Good debate I must say. I'd like to thank the Academy for all the-

Okay enough with that. We've reached the end of discussion, you and I at least.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I didn't really want to participate in this, but just one thing:

If the woman gives birth to the child, she also has to take care of it, unless it's adopted. Now it's one thing that the father has to pay , but the woman also has to support her child. Even if the father is willing to take the child, then it's the mother who'll have to pay money for 18 yrs.

So either way, the woman has more obligations: pregnancy/labor + support (unless the child is adopted)

How exactly is paying a monthly check and going through labor MORE than constantly supporting, which includes paying, and raising the child for 18 years? Not to mention the man getting married ends the support, but marriage won't end his responsibilities to the child.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

But it's fair to tell a man to deal with the fact that he was deprived of his child without regard for what he wanted. Okay.

We're comparing physical to mental. And the mental is like that of a child.

But this is the man who's supposed to be able to raise a kid.

 

[Punk Hazard]

There's what I was looking for. This statement right here. You firmly believe. That's good. Honestly your intentions are not bad. Of course, I firmly believe that the father deserves the right to voice his opinion on the matter before decisions are made, but ultimately the decision is the mother's in the very end.

But the key words here are "I firmly believe". You firmly believe that something you will never go through is less taxing than something you may or may not go through, but haven't.

We've reached the point where I wanted, we understand each other. I understand your reasoning, and you understand mine. Good debate I must say. I'd like to thank the Academy for all the-

Okay enough with that. We've reached the end of discussion, you and I at least.

Yeah you brought up really good points, and while I don't agree with them, I can respect the way you defended them.

 

[Punk Hazard]

We're comparing physical to mental. And the mental is like that of a child.

But this is the man who's supposed to be able to raise a kid.

Raising a child also has physical, medical and financial strain.

 

[Blubbit]

But it's fair to tell a man to deal with the fact that he was deprived of his child without regard for what he wanted. Okay.

Neither are fair, sir. But I will give my partner ultimate decision. It is her child too. If I feel we shouldn't, I'll make my argument. But if she does not side with me I will accept it. That's what I'm going to do should that happen. You can do differently according to your beliefs.

Good day.

-Blub

 

[Blubbit]

Yeah you brought up really good points, and while I don't agree with them, I can respect the way you defended them.

You want to know the best part of this? As heated as that got, we're both like "good discussion man". That just makes this for me lol.

 

[Scooby Doo]

How exactly is paying a monthly check and going through labor MORE than constantly supporting, which includes paying, and raising the child for 18 years? Not to mention the man getting married ends the support, but marriage won't end his responsibilities to the child.

Maybe we didn't understand each other.

You say that if the father is willing to take the child and raise it on his own for 18 yrs, that's more demanding than 9 months of pregnancy. Well IF the father is so willing to take the child, it means he has no conscience crisis and he takes pleasure in his child. So this should make up for his financial sacrifices.
Also paying a monthly check is one thing, the child has the right to keep in contact with the mother, and it's the mother's obligation as well. Which, the mother may not be comfortable with. It may cause several conflicts and damage the child's personality, however you can say that this is insigificant and still better than killing the unborn child. But if we are measuring emotional and physical pros and cons, this should be considered as well. And paying a monthly check in some cases can be demanding. Especially that you pay for something you didn't want in the first place.
So if the mother wants to avoid this, she can adopt the child, but then the father doesn't have much word either.
Also, what if it's the father who doesn't want the child and the woman wants? Then obviously the woman can have it, but then doesn't this mean the woman has more saying after all? Then why not in the case when she wants to abort it?