he never said he surpassed minato he said the ones that cam before doesn't mean he is talking about minato.you only proved minato used sage mode casue it was an asspull
Dude, wth are you on about?
Gamabunta said "Gramps... Did you see those, old familiar forms?". Clearly he was talking about Jiraiya and Minato. Fukasaku then said "I sure did" and thought "Looks like Naruto has surpassed those who became before him". Clearly he was talking about those two.
Dude, wth are you on about?
Gamabunta said "Gramps... Did you see those, old familiar forms?". Clearly he was talking about Jiraiya and Minato. Fukasaku then said "I sure did" and thought "Looks like Naruto has surpassed those who became before him". Clearly he was talking about those two
All of this has already been brought up long ago...
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The Manga hinted much more to Minato not being able to use SM, before he used it. This is why people consider it an asspull.
This image of Jiraiya and Minato behind Naruto occured before Pa made his statement. If you read the previous page, it shows a close up of Tsunade's eye watching Naruto from behind. The image was of the similarities that Tsunade saw in Naruto with Jiraiya and Minato.
I agree. I think many were expecting it to be directly stated beforehand, rather than being a total surprise instead.
At first it did seem a little bizarre, but Kishi rectified it in later chapters as to why it wasn't seen or talked about before. After putting two and two together (contract with the toads & Jiraiya believing he would be the child of prophecy), it's pretty obvious Minato would have learned at least the basics of Sage Mode. Everyone was just waiting for the confirmation.
To assume that Minato would never have been taught, despite the fact his teacher and son were, is rather close-minded.
All in all, Minato can't even use it that well in battle. It's hardly a big asspull when it doesn't even benefit the character, as we saw when Madara dealt with it easily.
All of this has already been brought up long ago...
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The Manga hinted much more to Minato not being able to use SM, before he used it. This is why people consider it an asspull.
This image of Jiraiya and Minato behind Naruto occured before Pa made his statement. If you read the previous page, it shows a close up of Tsunade's eye watching Naruto from behind. The image was of the similarities that Tsunade saw in Naruto with Jiraiya and Minato.
guess this all means that Minato's "BODY" was more suited for "SENJUTSU" than Jiraiya's was, but Jiraiya still used it better with Ma & Pa's assistance. Minato probably didn't use their assistance and instead only did it by himself. He probably just "sucks" with senjutsu Lol & cannot use the frog kata "tai"jutsu.
Just because Fukasaku didn't say anything about Minato doesn't mean that Minato did not learn SM. You have to remember the context of that time. Naruto seeked revenge for Jiraiya's death and that's why he went to Mount Myoboku (to become stronger so that he could achieve it). Everything was about Jiraiya that time. Naruto wanted to learn the same SM Jiraiya had. He wanted to surpass his sensei. He wanted to avenge his sensei's death. Fukasaku knew this and that's probably why he only mentioned Jiraiya. He even showed one of Jiraiya's book to Naruto for inspiration. Naruto's feelings towards Jiraiya played a big role in all of this.
Still doesn't prove that Minato didn't had SM. Minato could have said "He can use the same senjutsu as I?" but he said "Jiraiya's senjutsu" instead probably because Jiraiya was the first man to show him TSM and that's why he addressed it like that.
This image of Jiraiya and Minato behind Naruto occured before Pa made his statement. If you read the previous page, it shows a close up of Tsunade's eye watching Naruto from behind. The image was of the similarities that Tsunade saw in Naruto with Jiraiya and Minato.
Yes, Tsunade saw J-man and Minato in Naruto but so did the toads too. Otherwise, why did Gamabunta said "Gramps... Did you see those, old familiar forms?" and Fukasaku replied "I sure did"? It's because they saw those two in Naruto too.
Just because Fukasaku didn't say anything about Minato doesn't mean that Minato did not learn SM. You have to remember the context of that time. Naruto seeked revenge for Jiraiya's death and that's why he went to Mount Myoboku (to become stronger so that he could achieve it). Everything was about Jiraiya that time. Naruto wanted to learn the same SM Jiraiya had. He wanted to surpass his sensei. He wanted to avenge his sensei's death. Fukasaku knew this and that's probably why he only mentioned Jiraiya. He even showed one of Jiraiya's book to Naruto for inspiration. Naruto's feelings towards Jiraiya played a big role in all of this.
Still doesn't prove that Minato didn't had SM. Minato could have said "He can use the same senjutsu as I?" but he said "Jiraiya's senjutsu" instead probably because Jiraiya was the first man to show him TSM and that's why he addressed it like that.
Yes, Tsunade saw J-man and Minato in Naruto but so did the toads too. Otherwise, why did Gamabunta said "Gramps... Did you see those, old familiar forms?" and Fukasaku replied "I sure did"? It's because they saw those two in Naruto too.
Just to let you guys no, Jiraya also referred to Rasengan as Minato's (Jiraya's words: the fourth Hokage's jutsu). And Hiruzen even said the Reaper death seal was the fourth Hokage's technique.
So minato saying that senjutsu was Jiraya's technique means nothing. It's just a way of respecting the inventor/original user of a technique. Minato probably was taught by jiraya and so he refers to it as Jiraya's even though he can use it himself, it's just being respectful and giving credibility.
Just to let you guys no, Jiraya also referred to Rasengan as Minato's (Jiraya's words: the fourth Hokage's jutsu). And Hiruzen even said the Reaper death seal was the fourth Hokage's technique.
So minato saying that senjutsu was Jiraya's technique means nothing. It's just a way of respecting the inventor/original user of a technique. Minato probably was taught by jiraya and so he refers to it as Jiraya's even though he can use it himself, it's just being respectful and giving credibility.
Just because Fukasaku didn't say anything about Minato doesn't mean that Minato did not learn SM. You have to remember the context of that time. Naruto seeked revenge for Jiraiya's death and that's why he went to Mount Myoboku (to become stronger so that he could achieve it). Everything was about Jiraiya that time. Naruto wanted to learn the same SM Jiraiya had. He wanted to surpass his sensei. He wanted to avenge his sensei's death. Fukasaku knew this and that's probably why he only mentioned Jiraiya. He even showed one of Jiraiya's book to Naruto for inspiration. Naruto's feelings towards Jiraiya played a big role in all of this.
Still doesn't prove that Minato didn't had SM. Minato could have said "He can use the same senjutsu as I?" but he said "Jiraiya's senjutsu" instead probably because Jiraiya was the first man to show him TSM and that's why he addressed it like that.
Yes, Tsunade saw J-man and Minato in Naruto but so did the toads too. Otherwise, why did Gamabunta said "Gramps... Did you see those, old familiar forms?" and Fukasaku replied "I sure did"? It's because they saw those two in Naruto too.
You can bring up explanations of how you want to interpret there words, my point is that it was much heavily hinted towards Minato not being able to use Sage Mode. This is why many people were annoyed. It was never hinted that Minato knew Sage mode.
You say he Minato said it like that because Jiraiya was the first to show him SM. But we know the Second Hokage was the one who invented FTG. Yet this is what Minato say's about Tobi's S/T jutsu:
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"...weilds space time techniques that exceed both the second and my own."
He refers to it as his and the Seconds technique, not just the Seconds.
Even if Minato said "he can use the same sage technique as Jiraiya too" it would have made a bit more sense. But he didn't.
The picture of Jiraiya and Minato behind Naruto had nothing to do with the toads, it was Tsunade's vision of Naruto only (which is why she says "Naruto..". It specifically showed Tsunade looking at him. This was clear. Gamabunta's statement and Pa saying Naruto has surpassed those who came before him, doesn't have anything to do with Minato. We know there were others who tried to learn Sage Mode aswell, and Naruto has surpassed them.
You say he Minato said it like that because Jiraiya was the first to show him SM. But we know the Second Hokage was the one who invented FTG. Yet this is what Minato say's about Tobi's S/T jutsu:
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"...weilds space time techniques that exceed both the second and my own."
He refers to it as his and the Seconds technique, not just the Seconds.
He mentioned himself and the Second because he was making a comparison between their techniques. Why mention the Second alone when Minato also has a S/T jutsu? Especially when Minato is analysing Tobi's skill in S/T jutsu and is dealing with him one-on-one...
This comparison differs from the one below... in that, they are not comparing their SMs. If Minato was doing that, then there would have been a much greater possibility of him saying something that suggests he has SM.
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Btw this is the official VIZ translation of that page (
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):
Minato: (He's even mastered the same Senjutsu as master Jiraiya!) Kyubi: "He's grown into quite a son, eh Minato?
It's no wonder he managed to sweet talk my other half."
Here, Minato only mentioned Jiraiya probably because it's a way of showing respect to him. Jiraiya might have been the one that introduced Minato to SM and trained/guided/inspired him towards the goal of acquiring SM. But whatever the reasons are, Minato didn't really have to think something that suggests he has SM.
The picture of Jiraiya and Minato behind Naruto had nothing to do with the toads, it was Tsunade's vision of Naruto only (which is why she says "Naruto..". It specifically showed Tsunade looking at him. This was clear. Gamabunta's statement and Pa saying Naruto has surpassed those who came before him, doesn't have anything to do with Minato. We know there were others who tried to learn Sage Mode aswell, and Naruto has surpassed them.
Nope, the quote "Naruto..." was also Tsunade's reaction to Naruto after he saved her from Pain's attack. Yes, Tsuande saw Jiraiya and Minato in Naruto (as demonstrated by the last panel of the previous page) but so did Gamabunta and Pa:
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Notice how Gamabunta says "Doesn't seeing him remind you of those two"? Obviously, he and Pa visualised Minato & Jiraiya in Naruto otherwise who else could those two be? Even the VIZ translation was similar:
Gamakichi: Gramps, doesn't he remind you of the two...? Fukasaku: Indeed.... (thinking: Naruto-boy has surpassed his predecessors.)
Source:
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forums.com/showthread.php?t=707977 (remove the space between "naruto" and "forums")
