[Discussion] Shinigami Aizen is the strongest (After Dangai Ichigo)

[Forbidden Tale]

You have some points, Aizen (without Hyogaku is top tier, there is no doubt about that, but he is far from second strongest character) - even his Hyogaku form i wouldn't put as second strongest character, but like you say let's not talk about his Hyogaku form.

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Your Ryujin Jakka is strongest Zanpakuto - stated by Aizen himself, so that mean that RJ >>>>>> KS
Also, Aizen stated that Ryujin Jakka alone may be able to overpower Aizen full capabilities. "If we were to fight directly it's (Yamamoto is not it, so he talking about RJ) combat ability may even exceed that of my own".
Two chapters later we see how easy Zanpakutoless Yamamoto destroy Margela, same Margela that was far more stronger than senior captain level shinigami and that was with just Hakuda.
Aizen said that battle of shinigamis are battle of reiatsu, Yamamoto already felt Aizen reiatsu, and even without zanpakuto he was pretty sure that he will able to take him down. Shikai Yamamoto is far stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Aizen was also overpowered by Isshin as can be seen in this page:

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Aizen also stated that Urahara would kill him in his shinigami form if he didn't had Hyogaku:

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So there are at least three characters who can beat Aizen and Aizen stated himself that he would lose to those.

When we add Bach (still unclear how Aizen fooled him + Bach got stronger since than), Hashwalth (he chop Tensa Zangetsu in half, and that form of Ichigo is stronger than FKT Ichigo and also it's still unclear did Hashwalth used his schrift or just his base skills), Uryu (still don't know how much this guy is strong, but consider hype....), Dangai Ichigo (already beat his strongest form) we still don't know full power of Zaraki Kenpachi, Royal Guards, Askin, Pepe but i estimate that someone of them should be stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Kubo also bring possibility of Kyoraku being stronger than Aizen is some interview and since Healthy Ukitake is about same level as Kyoraku (and i think that he will be healed during war), these two can also end stronger than Aizen.

 

[Goetia]

You have some points, Aizen (without Hyogaku is top tier, there is no doubt about that, but he is far from second strongest character) - even his Hyogaku form i wouldn't put as second strongest character, but like you say let's not talk about his Hyogaku form.

Spoiler

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Your Ryujin Jakka is strongest Zanpakuto - stated by Aizen himself, so that mean that RJ >>>>>> KS
Also, Aizen stated that Ryujin Jakka alone may be able to overpower Aizen full capabilities. "If we were to fight directly it's (Yamamoto is not it, so he talking about RJ) combat ability may even exceed that of my own".
Two chapters later we see how easy Zanpakutoless Yamamoto destroy Margela, same Margela that was far more stronger than senior captain level shinigami and that was with just Hakuda.
Aizen said that battle of shinigamis are battle of reiatsu, Yamamoto already felt Aizen reiatsu, and even without zanpakuto he was pretty sure that he will able to take him down. Shikai Yamamoto is far stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Aizen was also overpowered by Isshin as can be seen in this page:

Spoiler

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Aizen also stated that Urahara would kill him in his shinigami form if he didn't had Hyogaku:

Spoiler

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So there are at least three characters who can beat Aizen and Aizen stated himself that he would lose to those.

When we add Bach (still unclear how Aizen fooled him + Bach got stronger since than), Hashwalth (he chop Tensa Zangetsu in half, and that form of Ichigo is stronger than FKT Ichigo and also it's still unclear did Hashwalth used his schrift or just his base skills), Uryu (still don't know how much this guy is strong, but consider hype....), Dangai Ichigo (already beat his strongest form) we still don't know full power of Zaraki Kenpachi, Royal Guards, Askin, Pepe but i estimate that someone of them should be stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Kubo also bring possibility of Kyoraku being stronger than Aizen is some interview and since Healthy Ukitake is about same level as Kyoraku (and i think that he will be healed during war), these two can also end stronger than Aizen.

I agree with almost everything here. Isshin was overpowering Aizen because while Isshin had only just arrived, Aizen had already expended much of his stamina and energy fighting the Gotei 13. Urahara would've indeed killed Aizen had he not had the Hogyoku subjugated; however that is assuming Aizen would even rush in the way he did without thinking. Ever since subjugating the Hogyoku, he always had his guard lowered and was never cautious or careful in battle.

But other than those two things, I completely agree with you.

 

[illidanson]

This isn't the only reason he is my favourite character. His personality plays a huge part. But nice thread.

Aizen is your favorite!?!?!?

... Well... I guess we all have different opinions...

Anyways: As for the whether any other Shinigami than Dangai Ichigo can beat him:

Well, if we're talking Aizen without The Hogyoku I disagree.

In a totally fair 1v1, Aizen hasn't meet his opponent before and therefore hasn't had a chance to show them his Shikai YET.

If that was the case, there's a few other Shinigami who could beat him:

Yamamoto (With mid diff)
Members of squad 0 (Mid diff)
Current Kenpachi (Might win, but then again Kenpachi isn't too smart and that could definitely be his downfall against Aizen)
Urahara (Don't underestimate this guy, he's definitely one of the strongest in the series, he can probably win with high diff)
Shunsui (This one is also arguable, but he definitely stands a chance)

And ofc if we count people that aren't Shinigami Yhwach can obviously beat him and Jugram stands a decent chance as well.

 

[Goetia]

Aizen is your favorite!?!?!?

... Well... I guess we all have different opinions...

Anyways: As for the whether any other Shinigami than Dangai Ichigo can beat him:

Well, if we're talking Aizen without The Hogyoku I disagree.

In a totally fair 1v1, Aizen hasn't meet his opponent before and therefore hasn't had a chance to show them his Shikai YET.

If that was the case, there's a few other Shinigami who could beat him:

Yamamoto (With mid diff)
Members of squad 0 (Mid diff)
Current Kenpachi (Might win, but then again Kenpachi isn't too smart and that could definitely be his downfall against Aizen)
Urahara (Don't underestimate this guy, he's definitely one of the strongest in the series, he can probably win with high diff)
Shunsui (This one is also arguable, but he definitely stands a chance)

And ofc if we count people that aren't Shinigami Yhwach can obviously beat him and Jugram stands a decent chance as well.

Aizen is by no means unbeatable, far from it actually. Urahara, Yamamoto, Juha Bach (maybe), and Kenpachi can possibly beat him. Dangai Ichigo screws him over no diff. Out of all I listed, either Juha Bach or Urahara stands the highest chance of defeating Aizen.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

I agree with almost everything here. Isshin was overpowering Aizen because while Isshin had only just arrived, Aizen had already expended much of his stamina and energy fighting the Gotei 13. Urahara would've indeed killed Aizen had he not had the Hogyoku subjugated; however that is assuming Aizen would even rush in the way he did without thinking. Ever since subjugating the Hogyoku, he always had his guard lowered and was never cautious or careful in battle.

But other than those two things, I completely agree with you.

Well, possibly, but even thought Aizen didn't use Hyogaku (didn't use transformation), he was merged with it, and it's possible that Hyogaku already healed his wounds/restored his reiatsu (just like Hyogaku done that when Isshin cut him), i think that this was even stated somewhere, but i'm not sure about that. And also you should consider that Isshin didn't even use Shikai.

In Urahara's case i would say that it's just matter of time when whould Urahara outsmart Aizen and take him down, Aizen already stated that Urahara is smarter than him, and also again Urahara used just Kido, not even his shikai.

 

[Braveknight]

bless this post in every way

And about the fight between lord-Aizen and ichigo

we already seen who was at his knees and who was standing while laughing.

 

[Goetia]

Well, possibly, but even thought Aizen didn't use Hyogaku (didn't use transformation), he was merged with it, and it's possible that Hyogaku already healed his wounds/restored his reiatsu (just like Hyogaku done that when Isshin cut him), i think that this was even stated somewhere, but i'm not sure about that. And also you should consider that Isshin didn't even use Shikai.

In Urahara's case i would say that it's just matter of time when whould Urahara outsmart Aizen and take him down, Aizen already stated that Urahara is smarter than him, and also again Urahara used just Kido, not even his shikai.

Yes, I agree.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Well, possibly, but even thought Aizen didn't use Hyogaku (didn't use transformation), he was merged with it, and it's possible that Hyogaku already healed his wounds/restored his reiatsu (just like Hyogaku done that when Isshin cut him), i think that this was even stated somewhere, but i'm not sure about that. And also you should consider that Isshin didn't even use Shikai.

In Urahara's case i would say that it's just matter of time when whould Urahara outsmart Aizen and take him down, Aizen already stated that Urahara is smarter than him, and also again Urahara used just Kido, not even his shikai.

The only reason urahra an isshin looked good fighting aizen was cuz aizen did not use his shikai on them.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

The only reason urahra an isshin looked good fighting aizen was cuz aizen did not use his shikai on them.

It's not that Aizen chose not to use his shikai, he couldn't use it.

 

[Goetia]

It's not that Aizen chose not to use his shikai, he couldn't use it.

Thats a tough one. I personally don't think he could access the Shikai, he might have been able to and he just didn't.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Thats a tough one. I personally don't think he could access the Shikai, he might have been able to and he just didn't.

He first need to do some ritual, and that ritual must be seen by opponent in order for Kyoka Suigetsu to work, all captains seen that ritual during Soul Society arc, that's why they were under Aizen's hypnosis FKT arc, but Urahara and Isshin both weren't present in SS during that time, that's why Aizen couldn't put them under illusion.

 

[raziel777]

Naw he has no bankai he tricked people into thinking he had one to become a captian...

lol no that is it why Yama did not use bankai itbwouod have been better if he did use it right after grabbing on to aizen while aizen sword was stuck in his guy cuz he had the real aizen an not an illusion so his bankai would have been great for that moment but no he did not use it..an I don't think aizen can stand the heat of Yama bankai if he was afraid of Yama shikai flames..

An yama said he wanted to die along side his comrades him going bankai probly would have killed them along with aizen while Yama stayed alive witch he did not want.

Get real, Aizen has bankai. He tricked the captains because he wanted them to see his shikai release.

If Yamamoto had thought his bankai > Kyoka, he would have used it.

Yamamoto is undoubtly more powerful but Kyuoka gives Aizen the win in any 1vs1.

You have some points, Aizen (without Hyogaku is top tier, there is no doubt about that, but he is far from second strongest character) - even his Hyogaku form i wouldn't put as second strongest character, but like you say let's not talk about his Hyogaku form.

Spoiler

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Your Ryujin Jakka is strongest Zanpakuto - stated by Aizen himself, so that mean that RJ >>>>>> KS
Also, Aizen stated that Ryujin Jakka alone may be able to overpower Aizen full capabilities. "If we were to fight directly it's (Yamamoto is not it, so he talking about RJ) combat ability may even exceed that of my own".
Two chapters later we see how easy Zanpakutoless Yamamoto destroy Margela, same Margela that was far more stronger than senior captain level shinigami and that was with just Hakuda.
Aizen said that battle of shinigamis are battle of reiatsu, Yamamoto already felt Aizen reiatsu, and even without zanpakuto he was pretty sure that he will able to take him down. Shikai Yamamoto is far stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Aizen was also overpowered by Isshin as can be seen in this page:

Spoiler

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Aizen also stated that Urahara would kill him in his shinigami form if he didn't had Hyogaku:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So there are at least three characters who can beat Aizen and Aizen stated himself that he would lose to those.

When we add Bach (still unclear how Aizen fooled him + Bach got stronger since than), Hashwalth (he chop Tensa Zangetsu in half, and that form of Ichigo is stronger than FKT Ichigo and also it's still unclear did Hashwalth used his schrift or just his base skills), Uryu (still don't know how much this guy is strong, but consider hype....), Dangai Ichigo (already beat his strongest form) we still don't know full power of Zaraki Kenpachi, Royal Guards, Askin, Pepe but i estimate that someone of them should be stronger than Shinigami Aizen.

Kubo also bring possibility of Kyoraku being stronger than Aizen is some interview and since Healthy Ukitake is about same level as Kyoraku (and i think that he will be healed during war), these two can also end stronger than Aizen.

Aizen was not being overpowered by Isshin so to speak. He was about to transform. The Hogyoku was taking its toll on him. Notice when he says "as a shinigami", he was transforming all along the battle. "my soul is being reformed"

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Concerning your scan, Aizen is no fool. He said that if it weren't for the Hogyoku, he'd be dead. But you take his comment out of context. He just got hit by a combo. WHICH HE LET HAPPEN Shinigami Aizen would dodged/countered (he knows Danku for example)

Urahara again says it

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About the Aizen vs Urahara page. Urahara himself admitted he would have never hit Aizen. Aizen allowed him to hit him. To test his evolution. He said it.

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Bach is the only one arguably stronger than Aizen.

I agree with almost everything here. Isshin was overpowering Aizen because while Isshin had only just arrived, Aizen had already expended much of his stamina and energy fighting the Gotei 13. Urahara would've indeed killed Aizen had he not had the Hogyoku subjugated; however that is assuming Aizen would even rush in the way he did without thinking. Ever since subjugating the Hogyoku, he always had his guard lowered and was never cautious or careful in battle.

But other than those two things, I completely agree with you.

Isshin was not "overpowering" Aizen. They fought for maybe 3-5 minutes before Aizen started slowing down due to the Hogyoku reforming his soul

Well, possibly, but even thought Aizen didn't use Hyogaku (didn't use transformation), he was merged with it, and it's possible that Hyogaku already healed his wounds/restored his reiatsu (just like Hyogaku done that when Isshin cut him), i think that this was even stated somewhere, but i'm not sure about that. And also you should consider that Isshin didn't even use Shikai.


In Urahara's case i would say that it's just matter of time when whould Urahara outsmart Aizen and take him down, Aizen already stated that Urahara is smarter than him, and also again Urahara used just Kido, not even his shikai.

Aizen said Urahara surpassed him in intellect. What does that have anything to do with Aizen being the stronger one ?

Urahara can't defeat Aizen. Even without Kyoka.

He first need to do some ritual, and that ritual must be seen by opponent in order for Kyoka Suigetsu to work, all captains seen that ritual during Soul Society arc, that's why they were under Aizen's hypnosis FKT arc, but Urahara and Isshin both weren't present in SS during that time, that's why Aizen couldn't put them under illusion.

Thats a tough one. I personally don't think he could access the Shikai, he might have been able to and he just didn't.

It's not that Aizen chose not to use his shikai, he couldn't use it.

The only reason urahra an isshin looked good fighting aizen was cuz aizen did not use his shikai on them.

All of them saw his shikai.

Isshin left SS 20 years ago.

Urahara and Yoruichi, 110 years ago.

At the time (110 years ago)

All of them had already been under his influence. Seen by the fact that During the Hollowification Night incident, they thought Aizen had been stroliing casually in the park while he was obviously not.

The only reason they need Ichigo was because he was the only one strong enough and WHO HAD YET TO SEE KYOKA

bless this post in every way

And about the fight between lord-Aizen and ichigo

we already seen who was at his knees and who was standing while laughing.

Yep. Aizen would have won if it weren't for the Kido.

 

[Goetia]

Get real, Aizen has bankai. He tricked the captains because he wanted them to see his shikai release.

If Yamamoto had thought his bankai > Kyoka, he would have used it.

Yamamoto is undoubtly more powerful but Kyuoka gives Aizen the win in any 1vs1.




Aizen was not being overpowered by Isshin so to speak. He was about to transform. The Hogyoku was taking its toll on him. Notice when he says "as a shinigami", he was transforming all along the battle. "my soul is being reformed"

Spoiler

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Concerning your scan, Aizen is no fool. He said that if it weren't for the Hogyoku, he'd be dead. But you take his comment out of context. He just got hit by a combo. WHICH HE LET HAPPEN Shinigami Aizen would dodged/countered (he knows Danku for example)

Urahara again says it

Spoiler

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About the Aizen vs Urahara page. Urahara himself admitted he would have never hit Aizen. Aizen allowed him to hit him. To test his evolution. He said it.

Spoiler

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Bach is the only one arguably stronger than Aizen.




Isshin was not "overpowering" Aizen. They fought for maybe 3-5 minutes before Aizen started slowing down due to the Hogyoku reforming his soul



Aizen said Urahara surpassed him in intellect. What does that have anything to do with Aizen being the stronger one ?

Urahara can't defeat Aizen. Even without Kyoka.










All of them saw his shikai.

Isshin left SS 20 years ago.

Urahara and Yoruichi, 110 years ago.

At the time (110 years ago)

All of them had already been under his influence. Seen by the fact that During the Hollowification Night incident, they thought Aizen had been stroliing casually in the park while he was obviously not.

The only reason they need Ichigo was because he was the only one strong enough and WHO HAD YET TO SEE KYOKA




Yep. Aizen would have if it weren't for the Kido.

Damn it raziel. You're going to make me give in to my fanboyism soon. And I thought I was good at debating for Aizen.

 

[raziel777]

Damn it raziel. You're going to make me give in to my fanboyism soon. And I thought I was good at debating for Aizen.

Ahah I got a little carried on. I just love the dude. He's like a total boss, in everything. I can't wait to see his comeback.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Aizen was not being overpowered by Isshin so to speak. He was about to transform. The Hogyoku was taking its toll on him. Notice when he says "as a shinigami", he was transforming all along the battle. "my soul is being reformed"

Hyogaku was ready to transform because Aizen already hit his shinigami limit:

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Concerning your scan, Aizen is no fool. He said that if it weren't for the Hogyoku, he'd be dead. But you take his comment out of context. He just got hit by a combo. WHICH HE LET HAPPEN Shinigami Aizen would dodged/countered (he knows Danku for example)

While having Hyogaku he became arogant, he let Urahara hit him with some "fodder" kido, but he didn't thought that Urahara have some really strong kido against him, sure like silverASSASSIN79 said he would be more cleaver without Hyogaku, but as already stated Urahara is smarter than him, it would be just a matter of time before he catch his shinigami form and keep in mind that Urahara did that unreleased.

About the Aizen vs Urahara page. Urahara himself admitted he would have never hit Aizen. Aizen allowed him to hit him. To test his evolution. He said it.

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I don't see that he say something like that, he just said that Aizen wouldn't let him try attacks one by one, again we have fact that Aizen would be cleaver if he didn't have Hyogaku, but how much would Urahara need time to outsmart Aizen? (it depends on power level, which i highly believe that Urahara could do).

Isshin was not "overpowering" Aizen. They fought for maybe 3-5 minutes before Aizen started slowing down due to the Hogyoku reforming his soul

Yes, he was. The Hyogaku reformed his soul, because his shinigami form is not strong enough to fight Isshin (His words: i already hit my shinigami limit")

Aizen said Urahara surpassed him in intellect. What does that have anything to do with Aizen being the stronger one ?

Urahara can't defeat Aizen. Even without Kyoka.

'Cause Aizen said that with kido Urahara used even his shinigami form would be finished (if he didn't have Hyogaku), but again Aizen would be on guard without Hyogaku, so to pass Aizen's guard Urahara would need to outsmart Aizen (and it's proven that he is smarter).

All of them saw his shikai.

Isshin left SS 20 years ago.

Urahara and Yoruichi, 110 years ago.

At the time (110 years ago)

All of them had already been under his influence. Seen by the fact that During the Hollowification Night incident, they thought Aizen had been stroliing casually in the park while he was obviously not.

The only reason they need Ichigo was because he was the only one strong enough and WHO HAD YET TO SEE KYOKA

Because Isshin was part of Gotei, doesn't mean that he saw his shikai. As long as i remember, only Kyoraku and Hirako were under illusion.

 

[The 1 who knows]

Aizen destroys anyone Kenpachi has ever fought.

Yamaji could sense Aizen's reiatsu because the blade was in his guts.

Aizen is always using Kyoka. Ofc he's not going to rush with the fight. Kenpachi stands no chance against Kyoka.

yeah tell me when zaraki kenpachi has ever felt shy from rushing head on into the opponants attacks?
whats stopping him from getting a sword in his guts just like yama? huh tell me?....you do that and i will believe aizen can beat him!


Idk why guys assume kenny is illiterate/dumb/stupid...........the bleach wiki clearly states that his 1 and only weakness is that he thinks too much when fighting an opponant ( think of shikamaru)
you want proof, go back to the nnoitra v kenny battle you will see that point mentioned!
kenny is a battle genius...overthinking is his only weakness...as for aizen v kenny once slashed i bet he will come up with a strategu just like he came up with one against tousen!!!!!

 

[kotoamatsukami]

It's not that Aizen chose not to use his shikai, he couldn't use it.

Naw shinji an others left around the time urahra did an they were still in it everybody was in it cuz they all thought momo was aizen..

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Get real, Aizen has bankai. He tricked the captains because he wanted them to see his shikai release.

If Yamamoto had thought his bankai > Kyoka, he would have used it.

Yamamoto is undoubtly more powerful but Kyuoka gives Aizen the win in any 1vs1.




Aizen was not being overpowered by Isshin so to speak. He was about to transform. The Hogyoku was taking its toll on him. Notice when he says "as a shinigami", he was transforming all along the battle. "my soul is being reformed"

Spoiler

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Concerning your scan, Aizen is no fool. He said that if it weren't for the Hogyoku, he'd be dead. But you take his comment out of context. He just got hit by a combo. WHICH HE LET HAPPEN Shinigami Aizen would dodged/countered (he knows Danku for example)

Urahara again says it

Spoiler

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About the Aizen vs Urahara page. Urahara himself admitted he would have never hit Aizen. Aizen allowed him to hit him. To test his evolution. He said it.

Spoiler

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Bach is the only one arguably stronger than Aizen.




Isshin was not "overpowering" Aizen. They fought for maybe 3-5 minutes before Aizen started slowing down due to the Hogyoku reforming his soul



Aizen said Urahara surpassed him in intellect. What does that have anything to do with Aizen being the stronger one ?

Urahara can't defeat Aizen. Even without Kyoka.










All of them saw his shikai.

Isshin left SS 20 years ago.

Urahara and Yoruichi, 110 years ago.

At the time (110 years ago)

All of them had already been under his influence. Seen by the fact that During the Hollowification Night incident, they thought Aizen had been stroliing casually in the park while he was obviously not.

The only reason they need Ichigo was because he was the only one strong enough and WHO HAD YET TO SEE KYOKA




Yep. Aizen would have won if it weren't for the Kido.

Um no you have no proof of him having bankai so you fail like I said he tricked people into thinking he had a bankai.

Yama don't.just go around useing his bankai if he don't need to its dangerous he knew his shikai flames would be enough to kill shinigami aizen so no need to use bankai..lol what you said makes no sense why use a weaker power when you can use a stronger power, shikai<bankai if aizen was very strong Yama would have went bankai..

Aizen loses to Yama bankai he can't even get close to Yama game over..aizen made wonder wiess for a reason.

An I know they all seen it he just choose to not use it on yourichi,urahara,an isshin or ichigo for that matter...also without KS aizen would lose to urahara no question about it.

 

[illidanson]

Aizen is by no means unbeatable, far from it actually. Urahara, Yamamoto, Juha Bach (maybe), and Kenpachi can possibly beat him. Dangai Ichigo screws him over no diff. Out of all I listed, either Juha Bach or Urahara stands the highest chance of defeating Aizen.

Well then we agree I guess (Or at least agree to some extent)

 

[Zorø]

I agree lord aizen planned you would make this thread.