[Discussion] Yamamoto has been surpassed

[crackpot]

@GeneralOuki

Before you say anything else you should check your sources. That translation from Mangapanda about Yama's power being bought is wrong as is a lot of the translations from Mangapanda. If you want correct translations check Cnet and BadKarma's translations they are far more accurate. Here is what was actually said by Shunsui. Sources for translations:

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

Spoiler

Kyouraku：卯の花八千流
Unohana Yachiru

Page 17
Kyouraku：史上最強と言われる初代十三隊
The original Gotei 13 was said to be the strongest in history
Kyouraku：その中
And of them
Kyouraku：十一番隊隊長を務め今の十一番隊の原形を作った
She captained Squad 11 and established the structure it has now

Kyouraku：山じいに力を買われ隊長となる前は
Before having her prowess recognized by Old Man Yama and becoming a captain
Kyouraku：尸魂界史上空前絶後の大悪人
She was the most diabolical person that ever existed in Soul Society
Kyouraku：天下無数に在るあらゆる流派そして　あらゆる刃の流れは我が手にありと
Claiming total mastery of every single one of the limitless styles and blades in existence
Kyouraku：自ら名付けた名を“八千流”
She gave herself the name “Yachiru”*
*TN: Yachiru means “8000 Styles”

Kyouraku：“斬術の手ほどき”なんて
Sorry
Kyouraku：ずるい言い方して御免よ
For using that sneaky “swordsmanship training” line

Kyouraku：更木隊長とあんたが
Even I could’ve figured out
Kyouraku：一度刃を交えれば
That if you and Captain Zaraki crossed swords

Page 18
Kyouraku：どちらか死ぬしか無いって事は
One of you
Kyouraku：ボクも解ってた筈なのに
Would inevitably die

And here is the excerpt from Cnet128 another good translator.

Spoiler

17
Shunsui: In the first generation of the Gotei 13, said to be the most powerful generation of all... / ...that woman... // ...served as the Captain of the Eleventh Division, and forged it into what it is today. // Before Yama-jii saw the potential in her and made her a Captain... / ...she was the most infamous villain Soul Society has ever known. // As a boast that she was master of all the countless styles of swordsmanship in the world, all paths by which a blade may flow... / ...she gave herself the name "Yachiru".
[TN: The name is made up of "Yachi", meaning "8,000" or "countless", and "ru", meaning "styles" or "flows".]
Shunsui: "Teaching him the way of the sword"... // It was cruel of me to put it so lightly. // I understood perfectly well... / ...what this really means.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Did he let it? or was it forced upon him?


Before he "bought" his power Unohana was the strongest.

Still was the stronger one. Yamamoto simply had something to keep her in check.

Why is it that every other captain besides her actually fought , why was she the one who was held back?

Yea she was the strongest untill he showed up she was never stronger than him they just never met.

Yea his power keeps her in check he's to strong..she loved to fight she can't fight if she dead so she better listen.

She stopped fighting an just worked on healing people..healers of squad 4 are not supposed to fight there job is to heal the wounded cant do that if their in battle an fighting an opponent.

 

[GeneralOuki]

Yea she was the strongest untill he showed up she was never stronger than him they just never met.

Yea his power keeps her in check he's to strong..she loved to fight she can't fight if she dead so she better listen.

She stopped fighting an just worked on healing people..healers of squad 4 are not supposed to fight there job is to heal the wounded cant do that if their in battle an fighting an opponent.

Not really. He actually showed his power.. Unohana is so strong that she was never told to fight. She has never been told to fight.

Why did Yamamoto not tell her to fight in the Aizen arc? There were many times where they could have used Unohana.. hell during the quincy invasion also. But why is it that they never used her?

Because she was too weak?


And no she didn't just "stop fighting". Yamamoto firstly, made her the captain of the 11th division. So no she didn't automatically just say "oh i'm done fighting".

Yamamoto is not dumb enough to not use a power that he has in his hands, that could help potential threats.

 

[Edward]

doubt it, but he does come close though. Kenpachi is still not as great at kido, or whatever those things were called again z.z

 

[GeneralOuki]

And also let me correct myself. Yamamoto SOUGHT out her power.

You must be registered for see images

doubt it, but he does come close though. Kenpachi is still not as great at kido, or whatever those things were called again z.z

Sheer reitsu. And body.

Unohana a Shinsui and higher level shinigami got smashed on by Zaraki without the need of a bankai or anything.. come on now.

Though yea she did use her energy to kill him and then heal him. However, in the end she couldn't do anything against his overwhelming powers.

 

[GeneralOuki]

Also, let me not mention what Unohana herself said, she doesn't even acknowledge Yamamoto.. :

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[crackpot]

In Zanjutsu she probably had better skill but overall Yamamoto would shit on her and she'd die. I actually don't mind you saying Zaraki is stronger than Unohana and Shunsui because he probably is (Although to make a clear cut statement I have to wait for Shunsui's bankai) but Yamamoto was on his own level and I just can't imagine Zaraki defeating him as easily as you think he would.

Unohana saying she was the strongest has as much credit as Nnoitra saying he was the strongest espada and Gremmy saying he was the strongest Sternritter..... Logic.

 

[GeneralOuki]

In Zanjutsu she probably had better skill but overall Yamamoto would shit on her and she'd die. I actually don't mind you saying Zaraki is stronger than Unohana and Shunsui because he probably is (Although to make a clear cut statement I have to wait for Shunsui's bankai) but Yamamoto was on his own level and I just can't imagine Zaraki defeating him as easily as you think he would.

Unohana saying she was the strongest has as much credit as Nnoitra saying he was the strongest espada and Gremmy saying he was the strongest Sternritter..... Logic.

Just as much credit to Yamamoto saying he was the strongest. Correct?

And no she isn't "selfishly" saying she is the strongest. She is saying that she has never met anyone stronger than her, besides Zaraki.

She isn't putting herself at the top. But instead comparing Zaraki to all the others she has seen.

And from the way she trolled Zaraki, i'm not hesitating to say she is the stronger one.



I like how you compared 2 different scenarios and 2 inexperienced amateurs, to a captain.. nice logic.

You say Yamamoto would sh*t on her right? I can say the same about Unohana, with her bankai.

 

[Anarkist]

Let's put it this way. Aizen stomps Ken.
Yhwach did stomp Ken and probably can do so again as we have not seen his full power.
Therefore, the old man stomps Ken as Aizen and Yhwach both stated he'd kill them in a one-on-one fight.
You need to stop overrating him.

 

[GeneralOuki]

Let's put it this way. Aizen stomps Ken.
Yhwach did stomp Ken and probably can do so again as we have not seen his full power.
Therefore, the old man stomps Ken as Aizen and Yhwach both stated he'd kill them in a one-on-one fight.
You need to stop overrating him.

Please no, just stop man just stop.

Old man stomps Aizen? thats why he needed Ichigo's help?

Sorry, i need to stop overrating the man who has the title of the "strongest shinigami". Which is a official title. Given to only the strongest shinigami.

I'm not overrating anyone, simply going with what Kubo gave me boy.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Not really. He actually showed his power.. Unohana is so strong that she was never told to fight. She has never been told to fight.

Why did Yamamoto not tell her to fight in the Aizen arc? There were many times where they could have used Unohana.. hell during the quincy invasion also. But why is it that they never used her?

Because she was too weak?


And no she didn't just "stop fighting". Yamamoto firstly, made her the captain of the 11th division. So no she didn't automatically just say "oh i'm done fighting".

Yamamoto is not dumb enough to not use a power that he has in his hands, that could help potential threats.

Lol what? But she has fought before while being a captain...he showed his power?..so you telling me unohana choose to follow somebody weaker than herself you think she would do that?

he don't have to tell her to fight she can do what she wants she chooses not to fight during the aizen arc an instead heals the wounded...an like I stated before she needs to heal the wounded after the invasion was over she can't do that if she gets into a fight an possibly gets her self killed..as you see her vice captain was also held back from it they need to be able to heal after everything was over.

Well yea she kinda did just stop fighting as you can see she became a very nice person..during the espada arc she even tells a guy that she does not want to fight....she keeps her self out of fights cuz she needs to heal the wounded if she gets killed by aizen then who's there to heal the people who wer cut down?

 

[crackpot]

Again you are wrong about the title Kenpachi.... It doesn't mean they are the strongest of their generation I think another poster gave you the correct definition.

Ok I had thought about Yamamoto when posting about the "Strongest person title" so then lets narrow it down to feats shall we?
Yamamoto defeated Wonderweiss with Hakuda who is a being even Stark defined as someone strong enough to quickly end the fight during the FKT arc.
Yamamoto can also perform Kido incantations up to the highest degree with no chant (Level 96).
Aizen feared his power (Someone you think is stronger than Yama.... But then why did he take precautions against his Zanpakuto?) so made Wonderweiss whose main purpose was to seal the flames of Ryuujin Jaka (Aizen even admitted to not be stupid enough to take on Yama alone).
Yamamoto speedblitzed Kyoraku in SS arc who is the same Kyoraku who could match Stark's movements... Who was also the same Stark that was so fast that Zaraki and Ichigo couldn't do anything even though he was right there.
Yhwach also only made preparations against Yama which was his doppelganger so that he could waste his power in Bankai so it would be an easier kill for Yhwach.

Unohana's feats include defeating a weak version of Zaraki (Even Kyoraku outright stated that he wasn't good enough)
Having the name Yachiru meaning "8000 flows" meaning she can move her blade well using all these "flows" (Skill not power)
Being a former 11th division captain and bearing the name Kenpachi
Losing to Zaraki (Which was her intention and knew she had no chance once he got back to his previous level)
And being intimidating (Which doesn't indicate power level what so ever)

Yama is far more impressive to me than Unohana and even Zaraki who you so highly praise wouldn't be able to kill Yamamoto as easily as you think.

 

[GeneralOuki]

Lol what? But she has fought before while being a captain...he showed his power?..so you telling me unohana choose to follow somebody weaker than herself you think she would do that?

he don't have to tell her to fight she can do what she wants she chooses not to fight during the aizen arc an instead heals the wounded...an like I stated before she needs to heal the wounded after the invasion was over she can't do that if she gets into a fight an possibly gets her self killed..as you see her vice captain was also held back from it they need to be able to heal after everything was over.

Well yea she kinda did just stop fighting as you can see she became a very nice person..during the espada arc she even tells a guy that she does not want to fight....she keeps her self out of fights cuz she needs to heal the wounded if she gets killed by aizen then who's there to heal the people who wer cut down?

Yea people do that all the time. Strong people following weak people is nothing big. It happens all the time. Yamamoto sought out her power, the power of a villain. I'm sure he made some kind of a deal with her. Seeing as he let her basically slaughter the warriors from that one district.

Umm, Yamamoto is the commander, it is the commander's job to tell the soldiers to fight.


Uh who is there to heal the people who were cut down? oh i don't know the whole Division 4?

That yamamoto fapping is coming along just fine bro.

Again you are wrong about the title Kenpachi.... It doesn't mean they are the strongest of their generation I think another poster gave you the correct definition.

Ok I had thought about Yamamoto when posting about the "Strongest person title" so then lets narrow it down to feats shall we.
Yamamoto defeated Wonderweiss with Hakuda who is a being even Stark defined as someone strong enough to quickly end the fight during the FKT arc.
Yamamoto can also perform Kido incantations up to the highest degree with no chant (Level 96).
Aizen feared his power (Someone you think is stronger than Yama.... But then why did he take precautions against his Zanpakuto?) so made Wonderweiss whose main purpose was to seal the flames of Ryuujin Jaka (Aizen even admitted to not be stupid enough to take on Yama alone).
Yamamoto speedblitzed Kyoraku in SS arc who is the same Kyoraku who could match Stark's movements... Who was also the same Stark that was so fast that Zaraki and Ichigo couldn't do anything even though he was right there.
Yhwach also only made preparations against Yama which was his doppelganger so that he could waste his power in Bankai so it would be an easier kill for Yhwach.

Unohana's feats include defeating a weak version of Zaraki (Even Kyoraku outright stated that he wasn't good enough)
Having the name Yachiru meaning "8000 flows" meaning she can move her blade well using all these "flows" (Skill not power)
Being a former 11th division captain and bearing the name Kenpachi
Losing to Zaraki (Which was her intention and knew she had no chance once he got back to his previous level)
And being intimidating (Which doesn't indicate power level what so ever)

Yama is far more impressive to me than Unohana and even Zaraki who you so highly praise wouldn't be able to kill Yamamoto as easily as you think.

I never said Aizen was stronger than Yamamoto. I purposed the question, if Yamamoto was stronger than Aizen according to you all, why didn't he kill aizen? Why rely on Ichigo?


So you want to judge her by her name? ok lets go then. Ichigo means strawberry, i bet he can create strawberries right? He doesn't fight with power, he fights with strawberries.


Oh great another feat wanker, who doesn't have the brain to realize, feats aren't dependent on what we want. But on what the author decides to show us.

Sage of the 6 paths has 0 feats. Yet he is the strongest why? So stop with the feat wanking and use your logic.


He might be impressive, since we know how his powers work. But again Unohana is above any other character from the current Gotei 13 besides Zaraki.

I never said Zaraki can easily kill him. Rofl.

 

[Anarkist]

Please no, just stop man just stop.

Old man stomps Aizen? thats why he needed Ichigo's help?

Sorry, i need to stop overrating the man who has the title of the "strongest shinigami". Which is a official title. Given to only the strongest shinigami.

I'm not overrating anyone, simply going with what Kubo gave me boy.

You really are ignorant aren't you?
If old man yama could not stomp Aizen, why did Aizen not just kill every single one of them right there?
Why did he spare some of their lives?
Yama's bankai stomps on all.
Ichigo could have been moved away but he never does, it was his town, his friends/family, he wanted to fight. I'm not sure if that's why he helped, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[crackpot]

Yea people do that all the time. Strong people following weak people is nothing big. It happens all the time. Yamamoto sought out her power, the power of a villain. I'm sure he made some kind of a deal with her. Seeing as he let her basically slaughter the warriors from that one district.

Umm, Yamamoto is the commander, it is the commander's job to tell the soldiers to fight.


Uh who is there to heal the people who were cut down? oh i don't know the whole Division 4?

That yamamoto fapping is coming along just fine bro.


I never said Aizen was stronger than Yamamoto. I purposed the question, if Yamamoto was stronger than Aizen according to you all, why didn't he kill aizen? Why rely on Ichigo?


So you want to judge her by her name? ok lets go then. Ichigo means strawberry, i bet he can create strawberries right? He doesn't fight with power, he fights with strawberries.


Oh great another feat wanker, who doesn't have the brain to realize, feats aren't dependent on what we want. But on what the author decides to show us.

Sage of the 6 paths has 0 feats. Yet he is the strongest why? So stop with the feat wanking and use your logic.


He might be impressive, since we know how his powers work. But again Unohana is above any other character from the current Gotei 13 besides Zaraki.

I never said Zaraki can easily kill him. Rofl.

I don't know something called plot? If Yamamoto killed Aizen there would be no storyline for Ichigo.

Yachiru is the name she called herself (Which is in relation to her ability), much like how Zaraki named himself.....

Uhm so now your trying to disregard feats in a discussion about power levels which is the only indication of power? Yeah nice one.

Unlike the Six paths Yamamoto has actually shown impressive feats. Actually you're digging yourself a hole Unohana has shown shit feats compared to Yamamoto and yet your hyping her to god tier.

And you also can't say Unohana is stronger than the rest of the current Gotei 13. The title Kenpachi means nothing when all you've done is kill fodder in districts and powered up a monster. We've seen her full power but not Kyoraku, Ukitake nor Shinji. Kyoraku and Ukitake have been hyped is SS arc by Yamamoto and Kyoraku hyped up even more by Ukitake in FKT arc. You are just making empty and baseless assumptions... just by knowing she was once a Kenpachi.

Well judging by your blind fanboyism that was the only logical conclusion I could come to..... Sorry?

 

[GeneralOuki]

You really are ignorant aren't you?
If old man yama could not stomp Aizen, why did Aizen not just kill every single one of them right there?
Why did he spare some of their lives?
Yama's bankai stomps on all.
Ichigo could have been moved away but he never does, it was his town, his friends/family, he wanted to fight. I'm not sure if that's why he helped, correct me if I'm wrong.

If old man yama could stomp. WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT INSTEAD OF RISKING THE LIVES OF MANY???

He wanted to fight, because he had to. You think he had the choice of going to go get some pizza and chill?

I don't know something called plot? If Yamamoto killed Aizen there would be no storyline for Ichigo.

Yachiru is the name she called herself (Which is in relation to her ability), much like how Zaraki named himself..... Embarrasing

Uhm so now your trying to disregard feats in a discussion about power levels which is the only indication of power? Yeah nice one.

Unlike unlike the Six paths Yamamoto has actually shown impressive feats. Actually your digging yourself a hole Unohana has shown shit feats compared to Yamamoto and yet your hyping her to god tier.

And you also can't say Unohana is stronger than the rest of the current Gotei 13. The title Kenpachi means nothing when all you've done is kill fodder in districts and powered up a monster. We've seen her full power but not Kyoraku, Ukitake nor Shinji. Kyoraku and Ukitake have been hyped is SS arc by Yamamoto and Kyoraku hyped up even more by Ukitake in FKT arc. You are just making empty and baseless assumptions... just by knowing she was once a Kenpachi.

Well judging by your blind fanboyism that was the only logical conclusion I could come to..... Sorry?

Oh the fanboy plot excuse.

Ok well Unohana doesn't seem that powerful in fighting, because of the plot. Have any arguments? Argue the plot. I'm done with your fapping over Yamamoto. While the manga clearly showing things against you. Ignorance is a bliss.


Holy shit, are you dumb? Just because that is all we have seen her do, doesn't mean she has only done that. Manga obviously implies she has fought many before.

Zaraki is stronger than Yamamoto. Proven by Yamamoto's fear of him revolting and causing GREATE havoc, and Unohana not even acknowledging Yamamoto as someone stronger than her. And she isn't like those villains who claim themselves to be the strongest, she plain out stated her opinion through experience.

 

[Anarkist]

If old man yama could stomp. WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT INSTEAD OF RISKING THE LIVES OF MANY???
He wanted to fight, because he had to. You think he had the choice of going to go get some pizza and chill?

Don't use caps on me.
I'm not bothered to explain why anymore due to blatant ignorance and bias. You just won't accept the fact that they cannot beat him in a one-on-one fight.
I'll just ask you with this question, why did Aizen not just kill Yama when everyone else was fighting?
By the way, they even said Yamamoto can defeat just about anyone with his bankai.
Also I don't care what the authors say till they show it in the series.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Yea people do that all the time. Strong people following weak people is nothing big. It happens all the time. Yamamoto sought out her power, the power of a villain. I'm sure he made some kind of a deal with her. Seeing as he let her basically slaughter the warriors from that one district.

Umm, Yamamoto is the commander, it is the commander's job to tell the soldiers to fight.


Uh who is there to heal the people who were cut down? oh i don't know the whole Division 4?

That yamamoto fapping is coming along just fine bro.


I never said Aizen was stronger than Yamamoto. I purposed the question, if Yamamoto was stronger than Aizen according to you all, why didn't he kill aizen? Why rely on Ichigo?


So you want to judge her by her name? ok lets go then. Ichigo means strawberry, i bet he can create strawberries right? He doesn't fight with power, he fights with strawberries.


Oh great another feat wanker, who doesn't have the brain to realize, feats aren't dependent on what we want. But on what the author decides to show us.

Sage of the 6 paths has 0 feats. Yet he is the strongest why? So stop with the feat wanking and use your logic.


He might be impressive, since we know how his powers work. But again Unohana is above any other character from the current Gotei 13 besides Zaraki.

I never said Zaraki can easily kill him. Rofl.

Please give me an example of a weak person leading a group of other strong people please?

Lol what deal?

Yea but he never told unohana she had to fight she choose not to fight her self but instead heal people.
The whole division 4 won't there at the time now were they?

Lol an why did aizen not kill Yama well it seems you clearly forgot about wonder wiess an what he did.

An aizen even states Yama sword is the strongest

You must be registered for see links

 

[crackpot]

Oh the fanboy plot excuse.

Ok well Unohana doesn't seem that powerful in fighting, because of the plot. Have any arguments? Argue the plot. I'm done with your fapping over Yamamoto. While the manga clearly showing things against you. Ignorance is a bliss.


Holy shit, are you dumb? Just because that is all we have seen her do, doesn't mean she has only done that. Manga obviously implies she has fought many before.

Zaraki is stronger than Yamamoto. Proven by Yamamoto's fear of him revolting and causing GREATE havoc, and Unohana not even acknowledging Yamamoto as someone stronger than her. And she isn't like those villains who claim themselves to be the strongest, she plain out stated her opinion through experience.

Uhm because it is fact..... not an excuse. Aizen admitted to Yama having more power than him as a Shinigami so took precautions against him, on the other hand he was trying to power-up Ichigo so that he could transcend to newer levels and take over the Soul King.

Unohana is strong.... but not stronger than Yama :O

Obviously not dumb since I can counter every single argument of yours with fluid and graceful tact :heh:. And sure she may have done more.... But nothing that would put her on Yama's level or are you trying to say that it was actually Unohana that defeated Yhwach 1000 years ago instead of Yama (Which we have proof of him actually doing so). Yeah Unohana is going to come up with something better than defeating someone who is the Emperor and God of all Quincies and sent him to sleep for a good 900 years..... because to me it sounds like that is what you are implying.

Yeah that great "Ignorance is bliss" quote would only be applicable to you. Yama was not scared that was C46 being scared.... See it as being a precaution for the better of SS better having a weak bloodthirsty brute than a strong one.

Until you give me solid information of Zaraki being stronger than Yama I will concede but as of now everything you brought up is weak.

 

[Nebula]

They are approaching yamamoto's level atleast... not surpassing though.