Part 2 Neji vs Hebi Sasuke

[slimreaper]

Please show me a scan of sasuke using nagashi without being held...show me a scan of him using in a fast moving taijutsu fight...against Itachi he couldn't use it cuz he didn't have time..he could only use it when he was pushed back by Itachi..each time he's shown using it,

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he's being held or not being attacked by high level taijutsu opponents
so he can't just spam it...Neji's byakugan can see chakra building up so it's useless anyways
You talk about Neji being trapped in Kisame's prison..please that's just irrelevant here..Kisame using that jutsu when he had the geographical advantage...btw..neji broke out of it..I don't see the relevance of that here..kisame and sasuke are 2 different opponents..what does the water prison have to do with this?...Neji broke out of it..do you know whether or not sasuke could have done the same?..can sasuke use one body blow art like neji did to escape that jutsu..no he can't...so don't bring that up..how was neji defeated by a 30% clone..please read that chapter again

I'm not claiming Neji >> Sasuke..I'm simply saying Neji is superior to him in a taijutsu fight...the fact that sasuke is a main characters does matter even if I never stated that..sasuke has been shown fighting opponents while we haven't seen Neji's full powers yet...so that actually should be taking into consideration
If Kishi sasy Neji is 4.5 in terms of speed, which is the same as Sasuke..why should we go against that?..sasuke plays a bigger role in the manga..far bigger than Neji, so we get to see him far more than Neji..but if kishi says Neji>>Sasuke in terms of Taijutsu and equal in terms of speed, why should we argue that..the guy created the manga and knows this...simply because we haven't seen much of Neji but have seen a lot from sasuke doesn't make sasuke>> Neji in taijutsu or speed..obviously, feats suggest sasuke is stronger than Neji overall

As for the deidara part, please you people need to stop this crap already..Deidara was running for his life..he didn't face them like he faced sasuke..he wanted to fight sasuke..here he was runnng for his life..2 different things

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he even says he couldn't escape..so because of this are we going to say Sasuke is also faster than Gai?
Because Deidara complimented sasuke doesn't make him faster
From what we've seen, that is judging from shippuden..anyone can say Shika and choji are above Neji simply because we've seen them fight more than him...but Neji is a jounin while they're chuunins..this matters..a lot of people say rank doesn't matter cuz of Naruto and sasuke's rank but these 2 haven't been in the village for quite a while

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[Conspirator.]

Lol his Kenjutsu is the best in the manga? ***** please, Neji could probably break his sword in CQC with his strong punches.

Nice joke.

 

[Haizaki]

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I meant in a cqc..he clearly had enough time to do that

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

People her really misunderstand the Byakugan.

The Byakugan, it could not only Grant Vision and allow to Oneshot to cripple opponent through chakra network but also it allows to "Sense" all of their opponents movements & attacks, as it was stated to be the "Sensory Type" and it can also skillfully control the chakra.

Kakashi even stated that the Byakugan surpasses the Sharingan in terms of insight meaning a deep understanding of a person thoughts and have perception.

So in other word, the Byakugan can not only repel, but simultaneous turn the move into the Byakugan User's advantage. For example lets say Sasuke uses the Susanoo arrows as it was shown in the manga that it was too fast as if it was unavoidable. The Byakugan user could perceive and react of an opponent incoming attack thus they could form a Rotation beforehand and the Susanno Arrow wouldn't able to lay a scratch to the Hyuga strongest defence. These only provide defense against such attacks.

 

[slimreaper]

People her really misunderstand the Byakugan.

The Byakugan, it could not only Grant Vision and allow to Oneshot to cripple opponent through chakra network but also it allows to "Sense" all of their opponents movements & attacks, as it was stated to be the "Sensory Type" and it can also skillfully control the chakra.

Kakashi even stated that the Byakugan surpasses the Sharingan in terms of insight meaning a deep understanding of a person thoughts and have perception.

So in other word, the Byakugan can not only repel, but simultaneous turn the move into the Byakugan User's advantage. For example lets say Sasuke uses the Susanoo arrows as it was shown in the manga that it was too fast as if it was unavoidable. The Byakugan user could perceive and react of an opponent incoming attack thus they could form a Rotation beforehand and the Susanno Arrow wouldn't able to lay a scratch to the Hyuga strongest defence. These only provide defense against such attacks.

what stop the sharingan user from seeing the other person build up chakra and spin before they do?

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what stops sasuke from seeing neji finish the spin before he actually does and attacking as he finishes? neji either runs himself out of chakra or gets killed

 

[Icelerate]

Ultra high speed compressed chakra that will hit them before they even know it says Kishi. Just incase you do not know, it isnt made to do external damage. Vital organs are the target and with the amount of force behind it you will surely be knocked out or back. Kisame weights roughly Double the lbs as sasuke yet be was blown back as if a hurricane hit him. Kisame is much much much more durable then any form of sasuke! The forbidden Tech Pain used makes them exact copies with only the chakra being limited. The body down to there chakra nature was perfect, so that point is mute. Kisame also grabbed Samahadra after he was hit, and as we all know; Same'heals everything for Kisame. But that is neither here nor there.

It is said that vacuum palm targets the vitals and that

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tend to do a great deal of damage even against the most durable of enemies. However, Kisame tanked it with ease and the only thing that happened to him was that he was pushed back so Kisame being more durable than Sasuke wouldn't really matter. As for getting pushed back by vacuum palm, you do realize

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with snakes coming out of his arms right?

The Vacuum palm wasn't even mentioned nor needed most the time, just because Sasuke can see the color (only) of chakra doesn't mean he can predict nor stop the chakra. And there is only Gate users and Hyugas who are able to move there arms so fast they can fire off Pressure in the form of Chakra/air/fire. That right their is beyond any hand speed shown in the manga no disputing.

@Bold, the vacuum palm isn't fast because of their hand speed but because the chakra within the palms of the user is compressed and then suddenly released. Not to mention that once vacuum palm is released, the attack is no longer useful whereas if Sasuke uses chidori sharp spear, he can still move it around and control. Hence Sasuke has the edge in close to mid range combat because his mid ranged move is continuous unlike Neji's. Also vacuum palm is a direct precise attack with no area of effect, due to Sasuke being a very fast fighter, it is going to be hard for Neji to accurately aim it directly at Sasuke, especially his vitals. Kisame was up against four opponents, he is slower than Sasuke and has worse reactions so Neji being able to hit Kisame doesn't mean he can do the same to Sasuke.

Then you bring up speed as if they aren't the same with in the databook. Neji is faster then Deidara and Neji also has the Byakugan to sense chakra build up for any and all Shunshin attempts. So speed is Mute since they are equal and sasuke relies of ninjutsu to "Blitz".

Next:

1. You didn't comprehend what the reason's and meanings behind the scans I showed you. The scans were to show Sasuke cannot predict Chakra period. Just because he can see it doesn't mean he can predict it. Vacuum palm will hit him if he doesn't dodge or is air born. The point of showing VOTE sasuke was to show the mechanics behind 3 tomoe, I can care less which form of sasuke it is, the 3 tomoe is a 3 tomoe. That is fact whether he is 50 or 16.

Alrighty then, Sasuke doesn't need to predict chakra but he can still read Neji's hand movements to some extent, better than most shinobi anyway. Furthermore, you keep on talking about vacuum palm hitting Sasuke but if Neji decides to go on the offensive with vacuum palm, can't Sasuke simply chidori sharp spear him? Pretty sure chidori sharp spear is more dangerous as it is more lethal, can be swung around and maintained for an extended period of time unlike vacuum palm.

2. Weak argument that i did not expect from you.
a. Bee was not even an once serious the entire time. Fact he gave them plenty chances, Fact he didn't kill them off bat, Fact He didn't even use V2. I can say everything about bee letting them last longer then they did. That is the weakest argument sasuke fans use. As if him being 100% affects the opp being pitty with them. Not to mention later on they switched to say they will have to fight to kill... SMH... If you are saying 100% sasuke would have defeated a Blood lust serious bee, I'll just stop debating you here and now.

b. Itachi fleed, that isn't dodging or evading. Being backed up and then Fleeing isn't anything worth bragging about. If anything that shows Bee was too much for itachi that even he could't land a hit. Sasuke was doing fine exactly like Itachi was, and looked what happened when be decicded to go for the kill.

c. You overrate the **** out of chidori sharp spear its sad. That thing is easily evaded. Then you seem to think he can swing it faster then being hit with 32 strikes almost INSTANTLY??? Basically you're saying sasuke can swipe his spear so fast nothing is shown??? Link please!

Anything chakra related is seen through before it is expelled, neji will know every chakra related thing that will happen before it happens! Fact! He easily dodges the slow swiping motion of a long spear. It is nothing but lighting chakra, Neji can simply use chakra to block it, nothing serious.

a) Hebi Sasuke is leagues above Taka Sasuke in speed, intelligence and endurance. Furthermore, a serious Bee destroys Neji too so what is your point? Sasuke saying they have to fight to kill doesn't mean he'd start using attacks that could instantly kill Bee unless he was placed in a dire position.

b) Going by your logic, pretty sure Kabuto also fled from Tsunade but I keep on seeing Tsunade being underrated because she couldn't land a hit on part one Kabuto. Itachi was forced to flee because he couldn't parry Bee nor could he overpower him but he did avoid his hits. Anyway since Sasuke is faster than Neji, he could also "flee", look for an opening and go in for the kill.

c) Sure Neji can evade chidori sharp spear. My point was that Neji has to come within arm's length to finish Sasuke off with 8 trigrams 64 palms but that Sasuke can simply use chidori sharp spear to finish him off before Neji can finish Sasuke off. If Neji decides to retreat from Sasuke's range to dodge chidori sharp spear, Sasuke shunshins and uses it on him.

3. It doesn't matter if it is a chidori sharp spear or a punch. I didn't want to say anything in your thread because you were debating, but now I will.

a. Everything you stated about the rotation is misinterpreted and wrong for the most part. A Kyubi ckakra enhanced punch or hit sent sasuke flying no diff, yet lost to a chakra shield of neji not rotating fully. It wasn't because he couldn't (because he did), it was because he was still in shock the power naruto gained. Not to mention this was part one neji. Part 2 neji tanked a juubis hand. Juubi hand force>>>>>>>>>>>Any form of Chidori. Period! It was also able to tank Spears from the juubi no diff. I'll further break your argument down, just post it again so i can go into further details.

You should reread what happened since Naruto's punch managed to do a

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against Neji due to not being able to rotate in time. On the other hand, by spinning around, Neji and Hiashi managed to repel the Juubi's hand due to actually using rotation. This goes to show and should be obvious, that a mere chakra cloak has vastly inferior defensive capabilities than a fully functioning rotation. Especially since this cloak of chakra is

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than when the user

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. So not only does it take time to begin a full rotation, the prerequisite to rotation, the "

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", doesn't have the spinning momentum which means there is no repulsive force hence why it is no where near a good of a defence as a full body rotation.

Next:

Chidori current isnt a physically damaging move. It is simply lighting chakra, simple. Neji can create a layer of chakra armor everytime to tank it. Neji will see Chidori current before sasuke uses it (fact). He doesn't have to rotate, but if he does, sauske is a sitting duck and will be basted away since he was in the middle of attempting a ninjutsu. And what you do not get with rotation is sad.

The chakra armor is what is used to stop all attacks, Spinning is what is used to repel them and or hit them with there own force!

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Releasing chakra from your body is instant for them! No question. Regular chidori lighting isnt getting past the chakra armor. Spinning is easy since they spin so fast instantly ony a blur is shown, this shows how fast there feet moves to achieve such feat. So the argument of rotation being slow is a myth. Again post your entire Rotation argument first so i can break it down and help you better understand the mechanics behind it and why kishi calls and shows it as an ultimate defense.

I know Neji can easily defend from chidori nagashi. Did you ignore what I posted? My point was that if for whatever reason, Sasuke couldn't move out of the way in time, chidori nagashi is an option to keep Neji from getting close, he'd no doubt sense the attack and stop charging at Sasuke, possibly even retreating, or possibly use rotation. I know that Hyuugas spin extremely fast while using rotation, but it takes time to start using rotation and speeding up their spinning capability. It is an ultimate defence even surpassing Gaara's only because of the spin and range. It ain't defending against chidori sharp spear in its infant stages before the spin and when the chakra layer is thin.

And I cannot believe you did not understand What I showed with pics and broke down. smh

You do not have to be wrapped around them for them to release chakra. This is the most simple thing i list. IWHat part of anytime and every where from there body they can release chakra from don't you understand bro? I'll break it down yet again even simpler:

Looks like you didn't understand my previous post. In your previous post, you talked about how strong of an offence full body blow is but it is only an offence if Sasuke is right next to Neji but he can fight from a few metres away so he isn't getting hit by it unlike the Zetsu clone that was already on Neji to begin with. BTW didn't that Zetsu clone later on survive and gain Neji's DNA to transform into Neji himself? So that Zetsu clone wasn't even killed, SMH. Nevermind that, the same Zetsu clone that managed to pull a fast one on Neji couldn't even

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Sakura yet you overrate the hell out of Neji and underrate the hell out of current Yin Seal Sakura who is much stronger than the Sakura that fodderized that Zetsu clone no difficulty. So much for Neji's 360 vision which didn't allow him to counter an assault from a mere fodder Zetsu clone.

And again, show a link or databook reference of the sharingan of any user being able to see chakra build up or the chakra network where chakra will be expelled in the body. Please show me a link, then I'll show you a link of the hyugas! You basically are saying they have the same feats as a sensor! Which isn't even close to true, i'll break it down the moment you disagree again.

Sharingan sees chakra, so it will see chakra build up. If I can see ants with my own eyes, than I can see a buildup of ants in an ant hill. Simple logic using deductive reasoning which you seem to lack. You're now using Shelke's logic who claimed SM Naruto can't sense amaterasu's prep because no sage mode user had feats of detecting amaterasu's prep. I agree it can't see the chakra network but right before Neji releases the chakra from his body, Sasuke will see it linger in the many pores exposed to the air in Neji's body.

Neji has the Byakugan, fighting with his back turned is what they do. And like i said, average snakes are dealt with no diff. Sasuke wouldn't even resort to that tactic after he see's the out come. I'm just waiting on a Manda argument so neji can go against the king!!! lol

All in all, nothing you stated is going to work and half of it is wrong with no manga proof behind it. I'm about to dip, so you'll have all day to counter me, don't rush it bro. Peace!

That isn't the point. I know Neji won't get blindsided by Sasuke but we all know full well that Sasuke is the faster shinobi. Them having the same speed score in the databook means they are around the same level but Sasuke is no doubt the faster one. Databook has a very inaccurate scale because it doesn't have many number options, so a lot of shinobi with differing speeds are put on the same level.

Anyway my point in using snake summoning was to show that while Neji attacks the snake summon, he can't defend himself from Sasuke's blitz. If he does do that, he ends up not attacking the snake summon since Neji can't simultaneously attack the snake summon while dodging or blocking Sasuke. In other words, Neji can't deal with Sasuke's summons without dealing with Sasuke himself. If Neji decides to focus on taking Sasuke, he'll also have to worry about the snake summon being on the loose.

Face it bro! Neji gets overwhelmed mid difficulty at most!



I'll post this again, now reread what I said and try to comprehend it fully:
Rotation's Weakness
Rotation is a powerful defence and I'm not going to argue whether or not Sasuke can breach it but it does have two key weaknesses. The first weakness is the fact that when the user is stationary, it takes time to start rotating.

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: Naruto managed to land a punch on Neji before he started spinning but the chakra emitting from Neji's skin managed to block Naruto's weak punch. Sasuke is incredibly fast and thus he'll manage to reach Neji before he can start spinning. Without the momentum from Neji's spin, Sasuke's chidori sharp spear will slice through the chakra surrounding Neji's body because majority of rotation's defence comes from the torque from the rotation which pushes out and repels attacks continuously as attacks try but inevitably fail to get through this powerful deflective force. This is because the speed at which the user rotates is immense and can change the trajectory of focussed precision based attacks. However since Sasuke is faster than base Naruto, he can attack Neji before he starts spinning. Basically

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that rotation is a two part process and my premise is that the first part of the rotation won't be a strong enough defence against Sasuke's raiton. Another weakness of rotation is that the user is stationary and can't go on the offensive while using it. Thus the user has to end the rotation

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which gives Sasuke the opportunity to finish Neji off with his superior range before Neji can get in range.

Basically Neji was

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against Naruto hence he wasn't able to dispel the force from Naruto's punch completely which is why he

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.

Completing a full rotation becomes even more difficult when the user is on the move since they first have to stop before initiating the process. For example, when Neji sacrificed himself to save Hinata, he didn't bother rotating or even using vacuum palm because it

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. This means that if Neji tries to charge his way towards Sasuke, he is dead meat.

 

[shelke]

Lol his Kenjutsu is the best in the manga? ***** please, Neji could probably break his sword in CQC with his strong punches.

It is, right up there with Bee. We don't care if you don't agree.

 

[Haizaki]

It is, right up there with Bee. We don't care if you don't agree.

I thought Mifune was above Bee in kenjutsu

 

[shelke]

^ Bee is clearly superior. Mifune should be under Sasuke, as despite being the master of 'Quick Draw', he couldn't even surprise Sasuke.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Im not sure where you get how that is a weakness, ice, but clearly you must be misunderstood.

rotation doesn't take long to initiate. the spinning motion itself is the only thing that requires any time at all to even start and even that time is very fast. in the fight with naruto, naruto was rushing neji and because neji was caught off guard that naruto would so foolishly rush in being such a loser and all, that he realized that he wouldn't be able to counter him properly and therefore had to use rotation due to the speed at which he was rushing in(speed that he didn't expect naruto to have). since he started it much later than he should have(when naruto was inches away from him) the resulting weak repulsion force caused not just the repulsion of neji, but of naruto at the same time.

this doesn't mean that anyone can just speedblitz him out of rotation, because at that point in time, neji had underestimated narutos power, especially with kuramas chakra. had it been another opponent, he wouldn't have taken them so lightly and taken precautions to use rotation before hand and not until the last moment like he did before.

the only weakness it has is that it requires spinning in the first place and that it roots the user into that spot

 

[Haizaki]

^ Bee is clearly superior. Mifune should be under Sasuke, as despite being the master of 'Quick Draw', he couldn't even surprise Sasuke.

Damn..I'm guessing it's cuz of that 7 sword dance

 

[slimreaper]

Im not sure where you get how that is a weakness, ice, but clearly you must be misunderstood.

rotation doesn't take long to initiate. the spinning motion itself is the only thing that requires any time at all to even start and even that time is slow. in the fight with naruto, naruto was rushing neji and because neji was caught off guard that naruto would so foolishly rush in being such a loser and all, that he realized that he wouldn't be able to counter him properly and therefore had to use rotation due to the speed at which he was rushing in(speed that he didn't expect naruto to have). since he started it much later than he should have(when naruto was inches away from him) the resulting weak repulsion force caused not just the repulsion of neji, but of naruto at the same time.

this doesn't mean that anyone can just speedblitz him out of rotation, because at that point in time, neji had underestimated narutos power, especially with kuramas chakra. had it been another opponent, he wouldn't have taken them so lightly and taken precautions to use rotation before hand and not until the last moment like he did before.

neji should have sensed naruto was going to charge. you neji fans going back on your word all the time U_U

 

[fastrthnwind]

neji should have sensed naruto was going to charge. you neji fans going back on your word all the time U_U

the byakugan doesn't sense movements like sharingan, or have you forgotten?

neji didn't expect him to charge like that because he knows that he would still best him in cqc, but naruto still charged in anyways.

 

[Icelerate]

Im not sure where you get how that is a weakness, ice, but clearly you must be misunderstood.

rotation doesn't take long to initiate. the spinning motion itself is the only thing that requires any time at all to even start and even that time is slow. in the fight with naruto, naruto was rushing neji and because neji was caught off guard that naruto would so foolishly rush in being such a loser and all, that he realized that he wouldn't be able to counter him properly and therefore had to use rotation due to the speed at which he was rushing in(speed that he didn't expect naruto to have). since he started it much later than he should have(when naruto was inches away from him) the resulting weak repulsion force caused not just the repulsion of neji, but of naruto at the same time.

this doesn't mean that anyone can just speedblitz him out of rotation, because at that point in time, neji had underestimated narutos power, especially with kuramas chakra. had it been another opponent, he wouldn't have taken them so lightly and taken precautions to use rotation before hand and not until the last moment like he did before.

the only weakness it has is that it requires spinning in the first place and that it roots the user into that spot

What Slimreaper says holds true but I was exaggerating that it is slow. Sure Neji can execute it pretty fast but what I'm trying to say is that Neji isn't untouchable as the manga clearly portrays otherwise. Furthermore, Sasuke's reach and shunshin are well above Naruto's. Neji couldn't rotate or even use full body blow or vacuum palm to save Hinata and instead had to sacrifice himself. Clearly not an instantaneous defence. The only way I see Sasuke losing is if he acts arrogant and decides to use taijutsu against Neji.

 

[Conspirator.]

Damn..I'm guessing it's cuz of that 7 sword dance

The most skilful kenjutsu users
are:
Bee
Sasuke
Mifune
Kisame

In that order. The reason kisame is 4 is due to the fact that his SWORD is powerful.

 

[Icelerate]

the byakugan doesn't sense movements like sharingan, or have you forgotten?

neji didn't expect him to charge like that because he knows that he would still best him in cqc, but naruto still charged in anyways.

Yet you guys are always acting that the perception of the Byakugan surpasses the sharingan due to being able to see the chakra network. When a person starts running, their blood circulation gets faster and since chakra is located within the

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, Neji should have been able to anticipate Naruto's blitz attempt by noticing the chakra flow inside Naruto's blood increasing.

 

[Conspirator.]

@icelerate
Just throwing this out there-madara was able to shove the chakra rods into hashirama's chakra/pressure points. How was he able to aim at them so accurately, when he only had the rinnegan activated?

 

[shelke]

Damn..I'm guessing it's cuz of that 7 sword dance

Obviously. His sword dance is incredible.

 

[fastrthnwind]

What Slimreaper says holds true but I was exaggerating that it is slow. Sure Neji can execute it pretty fast but what I'm trying to say is that Neji isn't untouchable as the manga clearly portrays otherwise. Furthermore, Sasuke's reach and shunshin are well above Naruto's. Neji couldn't rotate or even use full body blow or vacuum palm to save Hinata and instead had to sacrifice himself. Clearly not an instantaneous defence. The only way I see Sasuke losing is if he acts arrogant and decides to use taijutsu against Neji.

While I agree that he isn't untouchable, sasukes speed is nowhere near fast enough to do anything to neji or else lee would have bested him in all of his fights since lee is around the same speed as sasuke (maybe even slightly faster). it just proves that speed is not all that is required to beat a hyuuga. (though the super high speeds of gates are sufficient, though even that's debatable to a certain degree)

during the war, the wooden branches (which are being launched by the juubi no less) were being pinpointed at naruto so its power/speed is far greater than when it was a spread shot against the alliance.

once again, rotation requires the person to be rooted in order for it to be effective, so he would have had to make it in front of them, stop, and then start rotating, but considering the speed/power of the branches, neji barely made it in time just to use himself as a shield.

 

[slimreaper]

People her really misunderstand the Byakugan.

The Byakugan, it could not only Grant Vision and allow to Oneshot to cripple opponent through chakra network but also it allows to "Sense" all of their opponents movements & attacks, as it was stated to be the "Sensory Type" and it can also skillfully control the chakra.

Kakashi even stated that the Byakugan surpasses the Sharingan in terms of insight meaning a deep understanding of a person thoughts and have perception.

So in other word, the Byakugan can not only repel, but simultaneous turn the move into the Byakugan User's advantage. For example lets say Sasuke uses the Susanoo arrows as it was shown in the manga that it was too fast as if it was unavoidable. The Byakugan user could perceive and react of an opponent incoming attack thus they could form a Rotation beforehand and the Susanno Arrow wouldn't able to lay a scratch to the Hyuga strongest defence. These only provide defense against such attacks.

While I agree that he isn't untouchable, sasukes speed is nowhere near fast enough to do anything to neji or else lee would have bested him in all of his fights since lee is around the same speed as sasuke (maybe even slightly faster). it just proves that speed is not all that is required to beat a hyuuga. (though the super high speeds of gates are sufficient, though even that's debatable to a certain degree)

during the war, the wooden branches (which are being launched by the juubi no less) were being pinpointed at naruto so its power/speed is far greater than when it was a spread shot against the alliance.

once again, rotation requires the person to be rooted in order for it to be effective, so he would have had to make it in front of them, stop, and then start rotating, but considering the speed/power of the branches, neji barely made it in time just to use himself as a shield.

lee lacked to proper tools to fight neji without the gates. Sasuke on the other hand isn't comparable to lee. he has a wide array or ninjutsu and the sharingan.

don't compare lee to sasuke