Oppressive society

[Bastian]

This still remains one of the most educated periods in history, between the the 20th and 21st centuries. This is were I don't quite understand your postulate. While youth now are generally educated in rather broad but beneficial subjects, youth in past eras were rarely literate unless they were among the privlelaged or in elite. Most children learned sets of vocational skills and remained ignorant to other fields.
Reliance and over - reliance, while detrimental in many physical and sensory spheres, is needed for the development of any modern society, as eventually technology needs to be advanced enough for humans to cease the need for non-social interactions. In between the time this development takes place a period like this will always have to occur.

If you don't understand my reasoning I make a distinct difference between knowledge , education and what youth are told to know, and cognitive thinking , say logic and original thought. I left that quote to back up my point, it's fine that society is generally more educated than say societies in antiquity. Which is obviously true, but I believe in this moment in time people are dumber than they were say fifty years ago. Before a vast amount of technology that numbs our brains had been introduced.

I fundamentally disagree with your last few points though, as a whole only some technology is needed for the development of modern society. It's determining which is detrimental to ourselves and which is not, that is the key. Also technology needing to be advanced enough for humans to cease non-social interactions is a dangerous ideology to have.

I suppose I should address your last sentence too, I don't believe this is a transitional period as you may believe but rather the start of the devolution of the human race.

 

[Tingun]

If you don't understand my reasoning I make a distinct difference between knowledge , education and what youth are told to know, and cognitive thinking , say logic and original thought. I left that quote to back up my point, it's fine that society is generally more educated than say societies in antiquity. Which is obviously true, but I believe in this moment in time people are dumber than they were say fifty years ago. Before a vast amount of technology that numbs our brains had been introduced.

I fundamentally disagree with your last few points though, as a whole only some technology is needed for the development of modern society. It's determining which is detrimental to ourselves and which is not, that is the key. Also technology needing to be advanced enough for humans to cease non-social interactions is a dangerous ideology to have.

I wasn't finished, you missed a lot that I explained that covers much of what you've said here.


And I'd like to point out it is not my ideology, but simply what society seems to be tilting towards in the grand scheme of things judging by human desire.

EDIT: To avoid confusion I won't respond again until you've finished that section and have re-responded.

 

[Bastian]

As far as your concern for the effects of different media forms on culture, society and general intellectual acuity. I can assure you that free thought has not been damaged by these things in any way that hasn't been seen in the past. The rapid advancement of technology surely makes up for any lack of social depth in parts of the current generation, as well as the simple fact that things such as social consciousness, philosophy, sociology, psychological, anthropology and so many other fields that inspire thought and debate are readily available to a large portion of the populace of most first world countries. The same cannot be said for many other periods in history.

Even if it could be argued that things such as google inhibits the natural learning process in ways that cause it to be less effective than the learning in past eras, it could aldo be argued that there are still many people who continue to adk questions and study in a more philosophical manner. The only difference is that now instead of there being a large margin in between those thinkers (the elite) and the common man, both are educated, and one has a method of higher learning.

In other words we have created a middle class of thought so to speak, as opposed to the social elite versus the proletariat, where the latter and largely uneducated.

All these things are better in my opinion.

I just happened to quote you before you had edited in the extra text. Also it's good your ideology is not that of society at large, in the long run I believe it's a very dangerous way of thinking. We should see in the next thirty six years or so if I'm right. I'm not sure exactly when the singularity is predicted to occur. Last I checked the general consensus was like 2050? I'm not sure, I can't be asked to look it up right now though.

My concern of the effects of media is that our minds are not used to it, not just that I believe them to be an inhibitor to our thought process.

At bold, is what I disagree with the most. How thought is being damaged , again original thought, is vastly different than it has been in the past. The impact has been a lot more severe and will continue to be so, as technology advances. Obviously in my opinion of course.

Also my general viewpoint may differ from yours simply from the place where we live or our educational upbringings. I don't agree with everything you're saying but I understand where you're coming from when you say all of it.

Also by logic if we have created a middle class of thought we have also created a lower class and upper class right? I don't intend this to be a point of discussion but rather an observation, if you believe your own words to be true.

My assumptions on the future of the human race are based upon my personal observations, basic knowledge of history at large, how society has been able to advance so quickly through the exploitation of oil and coal, evolution of consciousness and what I at least believe is a pretty thorough understanding of how the human mind works.

We'll just have to see where society at large, again in developed countries where technology and media are affecting our minds greatly, is headed.

Again though just to make this point clear, we are more educated than past societies I don't disagree with that. But the affects of technology on the cognitive development of children yet to be born, and even people now living, is my main concern.

My original use of the word dumb had more to do with our minds becoming dull, not that people weren't more or less educated by the way. ( I said this in my original response, knowledge wasn't down but rather cognitive thinking is in my opinion.) I don't always make things perfectly clear though when I post, part due to laziness and part due to the hope of someone asking for my reasoning.

 

[Tingun]

Also by logic if we have created a middle class of thought we have also created a lower class and upper class right? I don't intend this to be a point of discussion but rather an observation, if you believe your own words to be true.

My assumptions on the future of the human race are based upon my personal observations, basic knowledge of history at large, how society has been able to advance so quickly through the exploitation of oil and coal, evolution of consciousness and what I at least believe is a pretty thorough understanding of how the human mind works.

We'll just have to see where society at large, again in developed countries where technology and media are affecting our minds greatly, is headed.

Again though just to make this point clear, we are more educated than past societies I don't disagree with that. But the affects of technology on the cognitive development of children yet to be born, and even people now living, is my main concern.

My original use of the word dumb had more to do with our minds becoming dull, not that people weren't more or less educated by the way. I don't always make things perfectly clear though when I post, part due to laziness and part due to the hope of someone asking for my reasoning.

Very nice, I'll only quote this last part as the previous section is pretty much resolved as either opinion or some form of concensus. I'll space my responses in corresponding paragraphs.

Yes, indeed I believe the lower class is almost the same as before except they are not completely illiterate and or uneducated. My problem was only that it can't be forgotten that the thinkers of the past were for the most part the elite, and remain so today. Society has just molded to a different structure.

Yes.

Again, yes. However I feel the future is going to be less predictable than ever before seeing as the information age will make things much different moving forward.

I see. I Have reasons to doubt this, but I'd need to reflect a bit more before making any clear analysis.

That's all fine, I see your intent. I may have misunderstood initially but I think I readjusted with the first edit.

 

[Bastian]

The future will be less predictable, which is exactly why people need to start predicting it. Before society implodes due to self interest or silly individual pride. Basically human desire as you stated before.

A bit unrelated to the original discussion topic but we, really any developed first world country, build stronger weaponry out of self defense. We only need to defend ourselves, I'm referring to the U.S.A. where I live I can't speak for other nations, because outside parties show aggressive action towards us. What happens then when we decide, again, to use nuclear weapons and this triggers war on a world wide scale. Say goodbye to developed society and the world we live in as we know it.

Also I understand you may have reason to doubt technological impact on our minds, on the same level as I see the impact. Consider the big picture, humans have been living for however many thousands, hundreds of thousands, or however many years I can't say because the science isn't there to make an accurate claim. But only very recently, in relation to the grand scheme of things, have these new technologies been introduced. TV , internet, advertisements literally everywhere etc. We will adapt, it just depends on how we adapt, for better or for worse at large.

Misunderstanding is part of the nature of internet forums, anyway, I don't really care about being right or wrong just conversing with others.

 

[Tingun]

A bit unrelated to the original discussion topic but we, really any developed first world country, build stronger weaponry out of self defense. We only need to defend ourselves, I'm referring to the U.S.A. where I live I can't speak for other nations, because outside parties show aggressive action towards us. What happens then when we decide, again, to use nuclear weapons and this triggers war on a world wide scale. Say goodbye to developed society and the world we live in as we know it.

Also I understand you may have reason to doubt technological impact on our minds, on the same level as I see the impact. Consider the big picture, humans have been living for however many thousands, hundreds of thousands, or however many years I can't say because the science isn't there to make an accurate claim. But only very recently, in relation to the grand scheme of things, have these new technologies been introduced. TV , internet, advertisements literally everywhere etc. We will adapt, it just depends on how we adapt, for better or for worse at large.

That's interesting, the idea of Total War occurring in this age is quite frightening. I also wonder if how far nations todat would go in order to insure their survival if a situation that drastic developed. I feel that regardless of how many Geneva laws or UN rulings are legislated that there is a point where the natural need to retain power could easily lead to a bypassing of the most crucial laws of the previously stated factions. I also can't really see the take over of even the smallest power being something that could happen without serious repercussions. Strangely as strong as it seems the worlds powers have become the more fragile they are in actuality. To me it seems that the modern sense of power has become very precarious.

I see, so you mean that while the development of technology is increasingly exponential, yet the development of the human anatomy and psych are not and therfore cannot correctly correspond. If that's correct then yeah I agree. The Brian is amazing and while it's a well known and overused, overrated fact, the brain is not completely utilized to its maximum capacity, however it's current state along with the bodies other faculties are not exactly up to speed. I suppose that there is a hope that technology itself can overlap the wrinkle it will cause, but as you've said, future events are pretty unclear.

 

[Bastian]

That's interesting, the idea of Total War occurring in this age is quite frightening.

I see, so you mean that while the development of technology is increasingly exponential, yet the development of the human anatomy and psych are not and therfore cannot correctly correspond.

It is frightening though I'm optimistic, I don't believe anything like an all out war will actually occur. Well at the very least I hope something like that wouldn't occur. Not only are our super powers, becoming like you said more fragile, but our world is becoming for fragile.

We effectively have the means to destroy the planet on a whim, but we couldn't reverse the effects. We can set off a nuclear bomb though we couldn't afterwards make the area live-able for human beings. Specifically I'm referring to a nuclear holocaust of sorts.

Yes that's basically my point, which is why I believe psychology need be taught in schools. It should also be taken seriously as we have no way of knowing how technology will affect our minds in the future. I believe it has already affected our minds in general negatively, though this point is a difference of opinion. We at least need to understand our own minds so we can make wiser decisions individually regarding the use, and in some cases overuse and over reliance on technology.

I have dinner now and I can't be asked to write much more anyway. But basically in a nutshell we need to be cautious. Because the future is unclear. As we both agree.

 

[Tingun]

It is frightening though I'm optimistic, I don't believe anything like an all out war will actually occur. Well at the very least I hope something like that wouldn't occur. Not only are our super powers, becoming like you said more fragile, but our world is becoming for fragile.

We effectively have the means to destroy the planet on a whim, but we couldn't reverse the effects. We can set off a nuclear bomb though we couldn't afterwards make the area live-able for human beings. Specifically I'm referring to a nuclear holocaust of sorts.

Yes that's basically my point, which is why I believe psychology need be taught in schools. It should also be taken seriously as we have no way of knowing how technology will affect our minds in the future. I believe it has already affected our minds in general negatively, though this point is a difference of opinion. We at least need to understand our own minds so we can make wiser decisions individually regarding the use, and in some cases overuse and over reliance on technology.

I have dinner now and I can't be asked to write much more anyway. But basically in a nutshell we need to be cautious. Because the future is unclear. As we both agree.

Cool, nice talk.


Enjoy.