The real reason why Sasuke broke out of Tsukyomi that everyone overlooked

[Sennin of Logic]

Should I post the Databook scan again?

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- without any enhancement from CS2.

Sasuke broke it on his own. Manga fact.

Let me guess this is you "golden touch" again? It said that he defeated it, but it also never stated curse mark didn't play a factor.

 

[Draphsin]

Should I post the Databook scan again?

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- without any enhancement from CS2.

Sasuke broke it on his own. Manga fact.

He only defeated it because itachi gave him time to.

 

[shelke]

He only defeated it because itachi gave him time to.

Is this what you are going with? He defeated it, the databook confirms it. In fact, Itachi was surprised. Nothing in the manga even suggests that he 'gave him time'.

@Naruto x Man

The scan is clear. Keep denying it.

 

[Draphsin]

Is this what you are going with? He defeated it, the databook confirms it. In fact, Itachi was surprised. Nothing in the manga even suggests that he 'gave him time'.

The fact that tsukuyomi lasted multiple moments & the fact that itachi didn't stab sasuke in the heart during the genjutsu proves that sasuke was given time.

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Sasuke could've been stabbed here, itachi dispels the genjutsu, & goes in for the final blitz, thereby suffering no damage from sasuke's attempt to break free.

 

[Behemoth55]

The fact that tsukuyomi lasted multiple moments & the fact that itachi didn't stab sasuke in the heart during the genjutsu proves that sasuke was given time.

No, completely wrong understanding of Tsukuyomi. With Tsukuyomi Itachi controls time. Actually, one second in the real world is one year inside of the illusion.
If you would re-read chapter 387/388 again, you would see that everything happened inside of Tsukuyomi and didn't influence the real world. On the other hand, there wasn't any time for Itachi to stab Sasuke, because it was literally just an instant. Even Shiro and Kuro Zetsu were suprised how fast this fight of Sasuke and Itachi was "over", but Itachi simply underestimated Sasukes talent-according to Kuro Zetsu.

I don't know why you are still denying facts of the databook and manga. This thread is the best example for it(Sorry Naruto X, but it's true). Whatever happens inside of a Genjutsu doesn't influence the real world. Itachi can cut off your ear or the target can try to release a huge amount of chakra, but in the end it's pointless, because Itachi controls the flow of chakra of the target.
That's the way of functioning of near all Genjutsu(only exception is Izanagi).

The reason why Tsukuyomi is so powerfull is simple: That kind of Genjutsu suggest the brain pain. It won't kill you but it will strain your psyche. The result is a mental breakdown-according to the databook.

Itachi knelt in front of Sasuke too, because he did everything he could do with Tsukuyomi to "break him".

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However, this thread failed in another context too. Orochimarus Juin bestows the user with an amount of Senchakra in exchange for his own chakra. If you remember the invasion of Konoha in Part 1~ Sakura was able to break a Genjutsu due to her great chakra control.
The amount and quality of chakra isn't important in that case.

There are just a few ways to break a Genjutsu:

-great control of chakra
-good dealing with the Sharingan
-Genjutsu: Kai
-hit the caster

In the case of Tsukuyomi only option 2 is valid. Itachi mentioned that long ago.
These community has an unwholesome obsession with characters like Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[shelke]

The fact that tsukuyomi lasted multiple moments & the fact that itachi didn't stab sasuke in the heart during the genjutsu proves that sasuke was given time.

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Sasuke could've been stabbed here, itachi dispels the genjutsu, & goes in for the final blitz, thereby suffering no damage from sasuke's attempt to break free.

What? No it didn't. You forget that a small instance in the real world stretches out to many hours in Tsukiyomi. Itachi didn't give any time to Sasuke to recover. The image you showed me is of Tsukiyomi. That wasn't happening in real world:

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- This where Sasuke and Itachi are standing. Note the Pattern behind both of them and the rough distance from the patterns.

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- As soon as Itachi showed his crows, it was the on-set of Tsukiyomi. He didn't even kick him back or blitzed him. Even these were illusions. As we can see through these images:

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- This is where Sasuke is and Itachi hasn't moved an inch as well -

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- Both of them didn't move at all:

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As for the giving Sasuke time, then not even a second passed as Sasuke broke Tsukiyomi before Itachi could even feel its affects-

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- This is where he felt Tsukiyomi's affect himself. As everything was an illusion before this image. This is the time that was passed in the real world. Itachi slaps his hand on his eye, and Sasuke has broken it before Itachi even realized it himself:

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- Zetsu confirms it that Itachi had used Tsukiyomi not even a second ago or Just used it. Sasuke didn't even get hit properly, he overcame it well before it. All, simple facts. I have no idea why you people keep stating that Itachi let him or gave him time, when the manga doesn't support it.

 

[Draphsin]

What? No it didn't. You forget that a small instance in the real world stretches out to many hours in Tsukiyomi. Itachi didn't give any time to Sasuke to recover. The image you showed me is of Tsukiyomi. That wasn't happening in real world:

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- This where Sasuke and Itachi are standing. Note the Pattern behind both of them and the rough distance from the patterns.

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- As soon as Itachi showed his crows, it was the on-set of Tsukiyomi. He didn't even kick him back or blitzed him. Even these were illusions. As we can see through these images:

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- This is where Sasuke is and Itachi hasn't moved an inch as well -

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- Both of them didn't move at all:

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I already know all of this, don't post scans of the obvious. Itachi could've stabbed sasuke in the genjutsu & it would've still affected him psychologically, which is how tsukuyomi works.

As for the giving Sasuke time, then not even a second passed as sasuke broke tsukiyomi before Itachi could even feel its effects-

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- This is where he felt Tsukiyomi's affect himself. As everything was an illusion before this image. This is the time that was passed in the real world. Itachi slaps his hand on his eye, and Sasuke has broken it before he even realizes it himself:

Oh my goodness you're completely misinterpreting everything. Sasuke was the one who dispeled the genjutsu, if itachi was to do it then sasuke would be the only one who would be suffering from the jutsu. Itachi felt backlash because sasuke broke free, & sasuke didn't feel the effects of the genjutsu until it was over because that's how it works. Once itachi dispels tsuku himself then sasuke would be on the ground & itachi wouldn't have been suffering as much as he did.

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Again stop posting useless scans, the genjutsu only got to that point because itachi decided not to dispel it after he removed sasuke's eye, & he didn't stab sasuke like he did to kakashi which would've resulted in a a more damaging trauma.

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- Zetsu confirms it that Itachi had used Tsukiyomi not even a second ago.

Confirms? There is absolutely no confirmation in the words "How is sasuke not collapsed on the ground..." & anyways this has nothing to do with my point. So what if tsukuyomi only lasts a second in the real world, it's the duration of the genjutsu that matters, & itachi prolonged it on purpose in order to get sasuke to break it.

Sasuke didn't even get hit properly, he overcame it well before it. All, simple facts. I have no idea why you people keep stating that Itachi let him or gave him time, when the manga doesn't support it.

Itachi did give him time & you need to stop being blind, I know that sasuke is your fave but c'mon dude there's a difference between arguing & wanking...

Itachi could've stabbed sasuke in the chest instead of plucking out his eye. Instead of simply removing an eye, [which actually isn't even fatal, is actually a rather easy procedure seeing as children can do it without much problem, see obito & kakashi.] Itachi stabs him in a fatal area, or slits his throat. The trauma of suffering from a fake eye transplant was enough to knock sasuke off his feet, imagine the trauma from a decapitation. & You say he didn't give sasuke any time?

 

[Behemoth55]

Rin(medic-nin) transplanted Obitos eye. These boys coudn't do it of their own. Kakashi got stabbed with a sword for three years(three seconds in the real world) and had afterwards a nervous breakdown. Do you really think it would have the same impact on Sasuke, even if he broke Tsukuyomi after a few moments?

 

[Draphsin]

Rin(medic-nin) transplanted Obitos eye. These boys coudn't do it of their own. Kakashi got stabbed with a sword for three years(three seconds in the real world) and had afterwards a nervous breakdown. Do you really think it would have the same impact on Sasuke, even if he broke Tsukuyomi after a few moments?

My point is they weren't exhausted from the pain that the transplant caused.

Kakashi was put out of commission, itachi only needs to get sasuke for a moment, then he can go in for the kill.

If removing an eye caused sasuke to nearly fall over, then it's apparent that a stab in the heart would produce a more traumatizing effect.

 

[Behemoth55]

My point is they weren't exhausted from the pain that the transplant caused.

Rin could stop the bleeding and Sasuke was (probably)mainly exhausted because he broke Tsukuyomi. It's only natural that this act is some kind of energy-sapping. On the other hand Itachi was more affected than Sasuke. However, we should also consider his illness.

Kakashi was put out of commission, itachi only needs to get sasuke for a moment, then he can go in for the kill.

How? Sasuke was on his feets before Itachi, after Tsukuyomi. During the usage of Tsukuyomi Itachi can't attack, because of the time difference. In the real world it elapses only an instant.

 

[shelke]

I already know all of this, don't post scans of the obvious. Itachi could've stabbed sasuke in the genjutsu & it would've still affected him psychologically, which is how tsukuyomi works.

Oh my goodness you're completely misinterpreting everything. Sasuke was the one who dispeled the genjutsu, if itachi was to do it then sasuke would be the only one who would be suffering from the jutsu. Itachi felt backlash because sasuke broke free, & sasuke didn't feel the effects of the genjutsu until it was over because that's how it works. Once itachi dispels tsuku himself then sasuke would be on the ground & itachi wouldn't have been suffering as much as he did.

Again stop posting useless scans, the genjutsu only got to that point because itachi decided not to dispel it after he removed sasuke's eye, & he didn't stab sasuke like he did to kakashi which would've resulted in a a more damaging trauma.

Confirms? There is absolutely no confirmation in the words "How is sasuke not collapsed on the ground..." & anyways this has nothing to do with my point. So what if tsukuyomi only lasts a second in the real world, it's the duration of the genjutsu that matters, & itachi prolonged it on purpose in order to get sasuke to break it.


Itachi did give him time & you need to stop being blind, I know that sasuke is your fave but c'mon dude there's a difference between arguing & wanking...

Itachi could've stabbed sasuke in the chest instead of plucking out his eye. Instead of simply removing an eye, [which actually isn't even fatal, is actually a rather easy procedure seeing as children can do it without much problem, see obito & kakashi.] Itachi stabs him in a fatal area, or slits his throat. The trauma of suffering from a fake eye transplant was enough to knock sasuke off his feet, imagine the trauma from a decapitation. & You say he didn't give sasuke any time?

- I never asked for a history lesson, I know this from the manga established time-line when Kakashi was stabbed for three days. You threw off people yourself, when you kept going on about time extension without specifying which one. Make your posts clearer. I doubt anyone likes wasting time collecting scans.

- So what's the problem then? I am misinterpreting what? I didn't follow a word of this. Just back and forth flip-flopping.

- Gave him time for what? The Technique is supposed to extend in the Genjutsu world. That is how it works. When it was used, Sasuke started feeling the lag in the Genjutsu realm automatically. Nothing in the manga supports that Itachi prolonged something that is meant to extend in the first place in the Genjutsu realm.

Unless Itachi doesn't break it himself, the time would keep on extending with the time in the real world, only the lag is much larger in terms of extension in the Genjutsu Realm. This doesn't even make any sense. What are you trying to tell me?

- This proves what? These long paragraphs haven't added a single thing I am not aware of.

- The Genjutsu is meant to extend - nothing in the manga suggests otherwise. The fact it lasted only a few minutes proves you wrong. He couldn't even extend it longer than that before Sasuke broke it.

- That isn't time, but choosing mode of pain. You cannot be seriously suggesting the two are even remotely rateable? Please, let's not get personal, when the Databook and the manga image both prove you wrong. Unless you have some concrete proof, this is nothing but self-interpretation.

I mean, the manga had established well before this that Sasuke is the only one capable of breaking it, and when it did happen, it doesn't count? Itachi let him? Give me a break. And I am being biased?

 

[Draphsin]

- I never asked for a history lesson, I know this from the manga established time-line when Kakashi was stabbed for three days. You threw off people yourself, when you kept going on about time extension without specifying which one. Make your posts clearer. I doubt anyone likes wasting time collecting scans.

Lol lecturing me? It should be obvious what I'm talking about, sasuke didn't lose an eye in the real world so I was obviously referring to genjutsu.

Don't like gathering scans? Then don't, I never asked you to & they weren't unnecessary.

- So what's the problem then? I am misinterpreting what? I didn't follow a word of this. Just back and forth flip-flopping.

You must be, how can I be any more clear? Itachi kept tsukuyomi active long enough for sasuke to escape...

- Gave him time for what? The Technique is supposed to extend in the Genjutsu world. That is how it works. When it was used, Sasuke started feeling the lag in the Genjutsu realm automatically. Nothing in the manga supports that Itachi prolonged something that is meant to extend in the first place in the Genjutsu realm.

Yeah, you aren't getting it. Itachi prolonged the genjutsu, he kept sasuke trapped even after he tortured him by removing his eye. If itachi was serious then he could've stabbed sasuke instead, & then ended it immediately so that sasuke can't dispel it & damage itachi further.

Does this make any sense to you? I don't know how to make it any more clear, but I guess ill try...

Unless Itachi doesn't break it himself, the time would keep on extending with the time in the real world, only the lag is much larger in terms of extension in the Genjutsu Realm. This doesn't even make any sense. What are you trying to tell me?

I'm trying to tell you that itachi didn't break it during the most opportune moment. Itachi kept tsukuyomi active after removing sasuke's eye, when in actuality he could've ended it right after he did so instead of going for the next eye. [

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^^ Why didn't itachi end it there? Because he was waiting for sasuke to escape it. [

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]

- This proves what? These long paragraphs haven't added a single thing I am not aware of.

Because you aren't getting it apparently.

- The Genjutsu is meant to extend - nothing in the manga suggests otherwise. The fact it lasted only a few minutes proves you wrong. He couldn't even extend it longer than that before Sasuke broke it.

He kept sasuke trapped inside the genjutsu long enough for him to escape, instead of just ending it after the damage was done. Basically what I've been saying this whole time.

- That isn't time, but choosing mode of pain. You cannot be seriously suggesting the two are even remotely rateable? Please, let's not get personal, when the Databook and the manga image both prove you wrong. Unless you have some concrete proof, this is nothing but self-interpretation.

Stop spouting, the databook doesn't prove a thing when you use common sense to put it into context. Itachi allowed sasuke to escape by prolonging his genjutsu after damaging him.

The concrete proof is the fact that itachi didn't end his genjutsu after removing sasuke's eye, there's nothing else that I need. You don't want to accept that then it's not my problem but it's clear as day.

I mean, the manga had established well before this that Sasuke is the only one capable of breaking it, and when it did happen, it doesn't count? Itachi let him? Give me a break. And I am being biased?

When did I say that sasuke can't break it? He can break it but it isn't instant [as proven when he suffered damage before escaping] therefore it still works on him, it's possible that he can train himself to dispel it faster but other than that he could only dispel it after the fact that he took damage.

At that point [in a serious fight] the jutsu's purpose is over & itachi can deactivate it, thus rendering sasuke hurt & unable to defend against the next attack in time, especially when considering itachi's speed.

 

[Kooljay]

I hoping that you was going to point out that Itachi wasn't even trying when using Tsukiyomi. He we went straight for the torture like with Kakashi then Sasuke would have been a goner.

 

[shelke]

Lol lecturing me? It should be obvious what I'm talking about, sasuke didn't lose an eye in the real world so I was obviously referring to genjutsu.

Don't like gathering scans? Then don't, I never asked you to & they weren't unnecessary.

You must be, how can I be any more clear? Itachi kept tsukuyomi active long enough for sasuke to escape...

Yeah, you aren't getting it. Itachi prolonged the genjutsu, he kept sasuke trapped even after he tortured him by removing his eye. If itachi was serious then he could've stabbed sasuke instead, & then ended it immediately so that sasuke can't dispel it & damage itachi further.

Does this make any sense to you? I don't know how to make it any more clear, but I guess ill try...

I'm trying to tell you that itachi didn't break it during the most opportune moment. Itachi kept tsukuyomi active after removing sasuke's eye, when in actuality he could've ended it right after he did so instead of going for the next eye. [

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^^ Why didn't itachi end it there? Because he was waiting for sasuke to escape it. [

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]

Because you aren't getting it apparently.

He kept sasuke trapped inside the genjutsu long enough for him to escape, instead of just ending it after the damage was done. Basically what I've been saying this whole time.

Stop spouting, the databook doesn't prove a thing when you use common sense to put it into context. Itachi allowed sasuke to escape by prolonging his genjutsu after damaging him.

The concrete proof is the fact that itachi didn't end his genjutsu after removing sasuke's eye, there's nothing else that I need. You don't want to accept that then it's not my problem but it's clear as day.

When did I say that sasuke can't break it? He can break it but it isn't instant [as proven when he suffered damage before escaping] therefore it still works on him, it's possible that he can train himself to dispel it faster but other than that he could only dispel it after the fact that he took damage.

At that point [in a serious fight] the jutsu's purpose is over & itachi can deactivate it, thus rendering sasuke hurt & unable to defend against the next attack in time, especially when considering itachi's speed.

Oh boy. Long post. Here we go - I will lump a few points together and keep it short:

- I gathered them because the time was never specified by you. Otherwise no, I don't like gathering scans.

- How long is long is your book? For Kakashi, he extended it to 3 days, when in real world only an instant passed. A few minutes is your idea of a LONG extension? Also, Sasuke survived getting multiple organs blown apart. He didn't die immediately. He survived long enough for medical help to be provided. You think Itachi would have killed him with a single stab?

- Again, no indication why he didn't. You are reaching with this argumentation. We don't know what Itachi decided, whether Sasuke was already endeavouring to break it or not. Zetsu even claims that Sasuke broke it before Tsukiyomi could 'hit him'. I am assuming he's taking about its full-fledged affects. Even Itachi is surprised, as he didn't expect it. Furthermore, it was Itachi's decision to show an illusion of plucking both his eyes. He never intended to stop at one:

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- I don't have to spout much, when the manga scans add a lot to common sense as well. Databook merely provides more leverage. Also, unless the Databook is not blatantly refuted, it is a credible source. You discrediting it and screaming common sense doesn't make any sense to me.

- Considering the fact that he could barely stand up himself - yeah, not happening.

 

[Bogard]

Itachi did prolonge the tsukuyomi against Sasuke [

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]. You can even notice Zetsu(who was in the real world) had time to notice something while Sasuke was under tsukuyomi. Itachi prolonged it to give more room to Sasuke in order to break his jutsu

 

[Draphsin]

Oh boy. Long post. Here we go - I will lump a few points together and keep it short:

- I gathered them because the time was never specified by you. Otherwise no, I don't like gathering scans.

Could've asked me, as I said I was referring to genjutsu because sasuke lost his eye, should've been obvious.

- How long is long is your book? For Kakashi, he extended it to 3 days, when in real world only an instant passed. A few minutes is your idea of a LONG extension? Also, Sasuke survived getting multiple organs blown apart. He didn't die immediately. He survived long enough for medical help to be provided. You think Itachi would have killed him with a single stab?

I'm not talking about the real world for the 50th time, he prolonged the genjutsu. Tsukuyomi only lasts a second in the real world yes, but the time inside the genjutsu is completely different, he extended that time.

& I never once said that a stab would kill sasuke, I said it will damage him & render him exhausted long enough for itachi to deliver the final blow.

& Idk why you're bringing up sasuke surviving bee's attack, he was incapacitated so that point is moot. & Anyways a stab in the heart would be fatal in terms of trauma, sasuke wasn't fine after madara stabbed him, he'll be feeling that sort of pain/near death experience while inside the genjutsu & afterwards in the real world.

- Again, no indication why he didn't. You are reaching with this argumentation. We don't know what Itachi decided, whether Sasuke was already endeavouring to break it or not. Zetsu even claims that Sasuke broke it before Tsukiyomi could 'hit him'. I am assuming he's taking about its full-fledged affects. Even Itachi is surprised, as he didn't expect it. Furthermore, it was Itachi's decision to show an illusion of plucking both his eyes. He never intended to stop at one:

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Zetsu has never been hit by tsukuyomi so taking his opinion for fact means nothing here, it's simply based on their observations.

Itachi "hit" sasuke with tsuku, & sasuke got damaged from it. Therefore tsukuyomi did it's job unless it has to do some other hidden function that I don't know about.

As I said itachi had multiple opportunities to dispel his genjutsu but didn't.

How is it zero argumentation when it's a fact that itachi never wanted to kill sasuke, his only goal was to remove the CM & give sasuke EMS. This fact alone supports my claim that itachi wasn't seriously fighting, & furthermore the fact that itachi didn't kill sasuke during tsukuyomi proves my point that he prolonged the genjutsu, just like he didn't directly aim ama at sasuke, & just like he didn't crush sasuke with susanoo.

There were multiple moments in that fight where sasuke was supposed to die, but didn't due to itachi's lack of intent to kill.

& As for itachi's decision to remove sasuke's eyes, why on earth would someone like itachi ever share info with his enemy? Let alone his entire goal & how he plans on achieving it? Someone as secretive as itachi wouldn't so foolishly explain the mysteries of the mangekyou to sasuke if he didn't count on sasuke getting it himself.

Itachi didn't pluck sasuke's eyes out for fun, he did it to stall the genjutsu, because as I said a serious itachi could've stabbed him in the heart, or slit his throat. But instead a non-serious itachi went for a laughable approach at incapacitating his bro.

Also to add, if itachi was seriously fighting then why would he go for such a non-lethal method of torture? After all he's the one who said that sasuke [someone of the same blood] is the only one capable of breaking it. Itachi would've expected sasuke to break free, which further cements my point that he was prolonging it in order for him to do so.

- I don't have to spout much, when the manga scans add a lot to common sense as well. Databook merely provides more leverage. Also, unless the Databook is not blatantly refuted, it is a credible source. You discrediting it and screaming common sense doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not discrediting anything, show me where I contradicted the databook & stop saying nonsense, because I clearly haven't said that sasuke can't break tsukuyomi, not once.

Nowhere does it mention the time & effort it took for him to escape, so it's a vague statement as it doesn't portray the entire situation.

Did it mention sasuke's use of CM? No, & the db even goes on to ask a question... "Is it because of his deep hatred towards his brother?" How can you take a source that asks a question as a specific piece of information? That makes no sense as the source itself doesn't even have an answer.

- Considering the fact that he could barely stand up himself - yeah, not happening.

Because sasuke dispelled it, simple. He used a longer genjutsu against kakashi & was okay to move afterwards, so yeah it is happening.

Rin could stop the bleeding and Sasuke was (probably)mainly exhausted because he broke Tsukuyomi. It's only natural that this act is some kind of energy-sapping. On the other hand Itachi was more affected than Sasuke. However, we should also consider his illness.

He was holding his eye, meaning he felt pain where his eye had been taken.

Itachi was more affected than sasuke was because sasuke broke it which causes more strain on his eyes. When itachi manually dispelled tsuku against kid sasuke & kakashi he was okay to walk afterwards.

How? Sasuke was on his feets before Itachi, after Tsukuyomi. During the usage of Tsukuyomi Itachi can't attack, because of the time difference. In the real world it elapses only an instant.

If itachi dispelled it instead of sasuke then he wouldnt have felt such a backlash & would've be able to attack.

& Itachi's illness doesn't have to do with the pain he felt in his eyes.

 

[shelke]

Could've asked me, as I said I was referring to genjutsu because sasuke lost his eye, should've been obvious.

I'm not talking about the real world for the 50th time, he prolonged the genjutsu. Tsukuyomi only lasts a second in the real world yes, but the time inside the genjutsu is completely different, he extended that time.

& I never once said that a stab would kill sasuke, I said it will damage him & render him exhausted long enough for itachi to deliver the final blow.

& Idk why you're bringing up sasuke surviving bee's attack, he was incapacitated so that point is moot. & Anyways a stab in the heart would be fatal in terms of trauma, sasuke wasn't fine after madara stabbed him, he'll be feeling that sort of pain/near death experience while inside the genjutsu & afterwards in the real world.

Zetsu has never been hit by tsukuyomi so taking his opinion for fact means nothing here, it's simply based on their observations.

Itachi "hit" sasuke with tsuku, & sasuke got damaged from it. Therefore tsukuyomi did it's job unless it has to do some other hidden function that I don't know about.

As I said itachi had multiple opportunities to dispel his genjutsu but didn't.

How is it zero argumentation when it's a fact that itachi never wanted to kill sasuke, his only goal was to remove the CM & give sasuke EMS. This fact alone supports my claim that itachi wasn't seriously fighting, & furthermore the fact that itachi didn't kill sasuke during tsukuyomi proves my point that he prolonged the genjutsu, just like he didn't directly aim ama at sasuke, & just like he didn't crush sasuke with susanoo.

There were multiple moments in that fight where sasuke was supposed to die, but didn't due to itachi's lack of intent to kill.

& As for itachi's decision to remove sasuke's eyes, why on earth would someone like itachi ever share info with his enemy? Let alone his entire goal & how he plans on achieving it? Someone as secretive as itachi wouldn't so foolishly explain the mysteries of the mangekyou to sasuke if he didn't count on sasuke getting it himself.

Itachi didn't pluck sasuke's eyes out for fun, he did it to stall the genjutsu, because as I said a serious itachi could've stabbed him in the heart, or slit his throat. But instead a non-serious itachi went for a laughable approach at incapacitating his bro.

Also to add, if itachi was seriously fighting then why would he go for such a non-lethal method of torture? After all he's the one who said that sasuke [someone of the same blood] is the only one capable of breaking it. Itachi would've expected sasuke to break free, which further cements my point that he was prolonging it in order for him to do so.

I'm not discrediting anything, show me where I contradicted the databook & stop saying nonsense, because I clearly haven't said that sasuke can't break tsukuyomi, not once.

Nowhere does it mention the time & effort it took for him to escape, so it's a vague statement as it doesn't portray the entire situation.

Did it mention sasuke's use of CM? No, & the db even goes on to ask a question... "Is it because of his deep hatred towards his brother?" How can you take a source that asks a question as a specific piece of information? That makes no sense as the source itself doesn't even have an answer.

Because sasuke dispelled it, simple. He used a longer genjutsu against kakashi & was okay to move afterwards, so yeah it is happening.

- I never denied that it doesn't last an instant in the real world. Tell me, what was the point of keeping it short in Tsukiyomi realm as you seem to be suggesting for him opting to prolong it? I would love to see a reasoning for this, as to inflict pain, whichever the sort, he would need more than an instant or a short time to begin with.

- A stab wouldn't cause as much pain as blowing multiple organs apart. I highly doubt it. I am sure none of us want to experience it, but common sense tells me that turning organs into a maroon paste must be unimaginably painful. If Sasuke can stand up right after recovering, then baring real world recovery shouldn't be a problem, when Itachi himself was kneeling from the affects of using MS.

If you are talking about Tsukiyomi realm, then nothing suggests that Itachi can kill Sasuke in the Genjutsu realm, when the manga has never supported it for part two, then I won't buy this one at all.

- Sasuke was still shown to struggle for several long seconds, despite being stabbed in the heart. Do you think Kakashi would have survived for being stabbed 3 days straight if the pain was exactly the same as the real world? I doubt it. In fact, he would have been dead on the 7th stab, I can assure you.

It's obvious that the pain is profound, but it doesn't match the real deal. The points on Sasuke surviving multiple organ being blasted away is pivotal. It shows his resilience.

- Again, do you actually think that would have killed a Sibling- Sharingan user that is canonically meant to resist the Illusions the most? Now you are just blatantly denying manga facts.

- You stating that Sasuke was allowed to break automatically contradicts everything, when neither the manga nor the Data book support it. Now you are playing ti by the ear that because Itachi knew he prolonged it? That doesn't cement anything. In fact that doesn't make a shred of sense.

- Do you understand Rhetorical questions? That would be one of them. Seriously, your nitpicks are odd.

- Though the affects do seem to be worse when someone else breaks it, Itachi was shown panting and sweating even when he dispelled it himself against Kakashi.

 

[Draphsin]

- I never denied that it doesn't last an instant in the real world. Tell me, what was the point of keeping it short in Tsukiyomi realm as you seem to be suggesting for him opting to prolong it? I would love to see a reasoning for this, as to inflict pain, whichever the sort, he would need more than an instant or a short time to begin with.

What are you talking about? Why are you speaking as if the genjutsu time & the real world time are somehow linked?

Itachi prolonged his genjutsu in order for sasuke to escape... If he was serious he would've kept it short but he didnt.

- A stab wouldn't cause as much pain as blowing multiple organs apart. I highly doubt it. I am sure none of us want to experience it, but common sense tells me that turning organs into a maroon paste must be unimaginably painful. If Sasuke can stand up right after recovering, then baring real world recovery shouldn't be a problem, when Itachi himself was kneeling from the affects of using MS.

I never said that it won't, jeez you're really bad at misinterpreting posts. The point itself is moot because sasuke was unable to move regardless, you can't judge how much pain sasuke can tolerate based off that instance, because he was going to die.

Sasuke stood up because he got healed, the healing part of this conversation is completely irrelevant, sasuke got stabbed in the heart & is currently dying, he will feel that sort of pain if itachi were to produce a similar result, & without the proper medical treatment nearby he won't be able to do anything.

Itachi was only kneeling because sasuke broke his genjutsu, how many times do I have to say it? Do I need to bring out the scans of itachi walking away from using tsukuyomi twice & for a longer duration? I Shouldn't have to..

If you are talking about Tsukiyomi realm, then nothing suggests that Itachi can kill Sasuke in the Genjutsu realm, when the manga has never supported it for part two, then I won't buy this one at all.

I never meant actually kill, I meant to deliver a fatal "killing" blow, the one that leads to his death in the real world.

- Sasuke was still shown to struggle for several long seconds, despite being stabbed in the heart. Do you think Kakashi would have survived for being stabbed 3 days straight if the pain was exactly the same as the real world? I doubt it. In fact, he would have been dead on the 7th stab, I can assure you.

Sasuke was unable to do anything, those several long seconds of him struggling is what he would be feeling.

Lol & Using kakashi as an example. Who says that itachi delivered any fatal blows at all? Even kakashi couldn't imagine why itachi didn't just kill him. Itachi can control anything in his genjutsu, he could've easily just kept on healing the wounds & going back in for non-lethal blows.

Again why would itachi kill a member of konoha? It wasn't fatal because itachi didn't want it to be, just like with sasuke.

It's obvious that the pain is profound, but it doesn't match the real deal. The points on Sasuke surviving multiple organ being blasted away is pivotal. It shows his resilience.

It doesn't match the real deal? Do you have proof that tsukuyomi pain isn't as bad as pain in the real world?

& There is zero resilience here...Neji got impaled by branches, managed to give a small speech before finally dying, & his durability is average. [

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] People don't die instantly, especially important people. So there's also an obvious plot component to this but I know you won't accept it. If sasuke wasn't able to recover from an obviously fatal blow then there is no difference in his durability, he can die just as easily as a regular shinobi can.

- Again, do you actually think that would have killed a Sibling- Sharingan user that is canonically meant to resist the Illusions the most? Now you are just blatantly denying manga facts.

& Again with the false assumptions, I never denied the manga, I keep asking you to bring show me where exactly I contradict the manga yet you can't... If you don't think that a stab to the heart would be fatal enough to put sasuke on the ground then you're just denying all forms of logic.

Nothing suggests that sasuke is made of steel, his resilience is average so he will feel the same pain as an average human being, his body isn't strong, his chakra is.

- You stating that Sasuke was allowed to break automatically contradicts everything, when neither the manga nor the Data book support it. Now you are playing ti by the ear that because Itachi knew he prolonged it? That doesn't cement anything. In fact that doesn't make a shred of sense.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here here...

- Do you understand Rhetorical questions? That would be one of them. Seriously, your nitpicks are odd.

Again I have no idea what you're talking about.

- Though the affects do seem to be worse when someone else breaks it, Itachi was shown panting and sweating even when he dispelled it himself against Kakashi.

Really? I see not a single drop of sweat or any indication of exhaustion. [

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[AGoodBoy]

Itachi allowed him to break it.

Anyway cursed mark only enhanced the amount of chakra sasuke had access to, giving him an extra bump to be able to finally get out of tsuk.

 

[shelke]

What are you talking about? Why are you speaking as if the genjutsu time & the real world time are somehow linked?

Itachi prolonged his genjutsu in order for sasuke to escape... If he was serious he would've kept it short but he didnt.

I never said that it won't, jeez you're really bad at misinterpreting posts. The point itself is moot because sasuke was unable to move regardless, you can't judge how much pain sasuke can tolerate based off that instance, because he was going to die.

Sasuke stood up because he got healed, the healing part of this conversation is completely irrelevant, sasuke got stabbed in the heart & is currently dying, he will feel that sort of pain if itachi were to produce a similar result, & without the proper medical treatment nearby he won't be able to do anything.

Itachi was only kneeling because sasuke broke his genjutsu, how many times do I have to say it? Do I need to bring out the scans of itachi walking away from using tsukuyomi twice & for a longer duration? I Shouldn't have to..

I never meant actually kill, I meant to deliver a fatal "killing" blow, the one that leads to his death in the real world.

Sasuke was unable to do anything, those several long seconds of him struggling is what he would be feeling.

Lol & Using kakashi as an example. Who says that itachi delivered any fatal blows at all? Even kakashi couldn't imagine why itachi didn't just kill him. Itachi can control anything in his genjutsu, he could've easily just kept on healing the wounds & going back in for non-lethal blows.

Again why would itachi kill a member of konoha? It wasn't fatal because itachi didn't want it to be, just like with sasuke.

It doesn't match the real deal? Do you have proof that tsukuyomi pain isn't as bad as pain in the real world?

& There is zero resilience here...Neji got impaled by branches, managed to give a small speech before finally dying, & his durability is average. [

You must be registered for see links

][

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][

You must be registered for see links

] People don't die instantly, especially important people. So there's also an obvious plot component to this but I know you won't accept it. If sasuke wasn't able to recover from an obviously fatal blow then there is no difference in his durability, he can die just as easily as a regular shinobi can.

& Again with the false assumptions, I never denied the manga, I keep asking you to bring show me where exactly I contradict the manga yet you can't... If you don't think that a stab to the heart would be fatal enough to put sasuke on the ground then you're just denying all forms of logic.

Nothing suggests that sasuke is made of steel, his resilience is average so he will feel the same pain as an average human being, his body isn't strong, his chakra is.

Really? I see not a single drop of sweat or any indication of exhaustion. [

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] Feel free to browse the whole chapter too.

- Itachi intended to show the genjutsu by plucking out both his eyes. Sasuke escaped before it. Nothing suggests he could have kept it short. Now I will demand a scan for it. Anything would do.

- Sasuke's sharingan is supposed to resist this Genjutsu. How do you think he should be able to resist it? Obviously by decreasing and surviving the affects of it.

- No he wouldn't, as I stated above, his Sharingan is meant to 'Canonically' resist the illusion, resisting it would mean resisting its full-fledged affects which would otherwise kill anyone else. Itachi outright states that 'Some' resistance can be made to Tsukiyomi, which is why Kakashi managed to survive, even that long. Itachi knew it himself. Had he felt the full pain of stabs for 3 days, he would have been dead in the first minute. This warrants a bit of commonsense now. Seriously, I have to post a scan for the 'resisting' points now?

- Itachi states that Kakashi can offer 'some' resistance, Sasuke can resist it to a great degree given the obvious points. A person was stabbed in the gut for three days and lived. Screw fatal blows, this is your resistance right here. Itachi could have gone for the throat but the burden of proof lies on you. Sasuke after being stabbed by multiple swords, which he did avoid by running Raiton through his body, STILL couldn't stand up, but getting stabbed by Blades, with real sensation wouldn't have outright killed him? Get real. It's obvious his Sharingan resisted the Genjutsu to some degree.

Face it, Itachi knew that this level of pain would be resisted by Kakashi as he possesses the Sharingan, which is why he didn't up it.

- Itachi cannot kill Sasuke in this genjutsu realm. The manga speaks against it. I don't care whether you agree with it or not as only Sasuke is supposed to resist its affects in the first place. He could have gone for the heart for all I care, but Sasuke would have survived regardless, as the manga states so. His resistance for this Genjutsu is canonical. Commonsense be damned.

- You are contradicting the manga on multiple accounts: failing to note Sasuke's Natural high resistance to Tsukiyomi and his potential to break free, making repeated assumptions that Itachi prolonged it, when nothing suggests it, assuming that the pain is the same for the Sharingan user, when Itachi outright claims that a Sharingan user can offer 'Some' resistance, which is why Kakashi even survived getting stabbed for 3 days. Do you think Asuma and Kurenai would have survived? No, because they lack the 'Resistance' aspect the Sharingan offers for this genjutsu.

-

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- I can clearly see a sweat drop and panting. No one said that Itachi would be wrecked. But he does seem visibly affected and would hardly be in a position to blitz anyone immediately.