[VS] Minato Vs Tobirama

[Gold Lightning]

Common sense, it needs not be stated. Assume alive unless typed otherwise.
.

Not really, I've seen people give kotoamatsukami for alive itachi even though shisui's eye didn't activate until after he became Edo. Or the whole Rinnegan Madara thing where people used to list him as #1 in top 10 threads, despite him only unlocking it in his old age (that was Madara's strongest form at the time so it shouldn't have really mattered if it was Edo or not). Or when you see vs threads with the Jinchuuriki in involved, not all of them were perfect Jins but I've seen them being given their Edo feats. There is another example but I can't remember it.

You say minato was on his knees after becoming a jin but he still managed to leap intron of Kurama's claw, use the summoning jutsu, perform the 4 trigrams/8 trigrams seal etc.

Like bogard said, there is a case for minato being a Jin while alive, not that i think it should even matter since these are hypothetical vs threads. If the op doesn't restrict it then I don't see why not since one of alive Minatos final actions was becoming a Jinchuuriki.

 

[Touken]

Having debated several times on this match-up, I've concluded there's literally no point in debating it. No one's gonna convince anyone on who wins.

 

[Murasame]

Not really, I've seen people give kotoamatsukami for alive itachi even though shisui's eye didn't activate until after he became Edo. Or the whole Rinnegan Madara thing where people used to list him as #1 in top 10 threads, despite him only unlocking it in his old age (that was Madara's strongest form at the time so it shouldn't have really mattered if it was Edo or not). Or when you see vs threads with the Jinchuuriki in involved, not all of them were perfect Jins but I've seen them being given their Edo feats. There is another example but I can't remember it.

You say minato was on his knees after becoming a jin but he still managed to leap intron of Kurama's claw, use the summoning jutsu, perform the 4 trigrams/8 trigrams seal etc.

Like bogard said, there is a case for minato being a Jin while alive, not that i think it should even matter since these are hypothetical vs threads. If the op doesn't restrict it then I don't see why not since one of alive Minatos final actions was becoming a Jinchuuriki.

Even if a case can be made are we just going to automatically give Minato full control of Kurama?

 

[Gold Lightning]

Even if a case can be made are we just going to automatically give Minato full control of Kurama?

That's up to the op and the conditions set. We saw how surprised Naruto and Kurama were that he was able to utilise KCM all of a sudden, and it's not like minato doesn't have feats with KCM/BM. He used it all in this war, he's shown the ability to create chakra arms and create giant rasengans and tailed beast bombs. So it's not like it's all some fanfiction, they're all feats he's pulled off, it's Minatos strongest state/form and the only power he got.

 

[End of Days]

Firstly, with edo tensei, you need to remain still and concentrate to control their movements

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Remaining still is the dumbest idea against someone like minato, you would get killed

Secondly, tobirama himself would have to get away from edos if he wants to get out alive from the edo explosion, (or does someone think he can tank the explosion?)
so unless someone thinks tobirama would get away from the explosion and yet minato, faster than him, cant then i dont know why edos are even considered a factor

the explosion barely destroyed the head gate of the juubi while minato had covered the whole of the juubi with just four markings

it isnt catching minato

Thirdly, it seems people think minato would lose to big expolsions, lolwut

He defeated 50 iwagakure shinobis who were using large scale explosive moves like this

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just look at the size of the explosion relative to the surroundings

Fourthly, sealing jutsus gg

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[Bogard]

Firstly, with edo tensei, you need to remain still and concentrate to control their movements

Spoiler

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Remaining still is the dumbest idea against someone like minato, you would get killed

Secondly, tobirama himself would have to get away from edos if he wants to get out alive from the edo explosion, (or does someone think he can tank the explosion?)
so unless someone thinks tobirama would get away from the explosion and yet minato, faster than him, cant then i dont know why edos are even considered a factor

the explosion barely destroyed the head gate of the juubi while minato had covered the whole of the juubi with just four markings

it isnt catching minato

Thirdly, it seems people think minato would lose to big expolsions, lolwut

He defeated 50 iwagakure shinobis who were using large scale explosive moves like this

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

just look at the size of the explosion relative to the surroundings

Fourthly, sealing jutsus gg

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Nice post. I totally forgot about the edo control thing, but concerning the rest of your post it's what i think as well, reason why i really don't understand Touken's point with the edos in this battle. I honestly don't get the role they play

 

[Murasame]

That's up to the op and the conditions set. We saw how surprised Naruto and Kurama were that he was able to utilise KCM all of a sudden, and it's not like minato doesn't have feats with KCM/BM. He used it all in this war, he's shown the ability to create chakra arms and create giant rasengans and tailed beast bombs. So it's not like it's all some fanfiction, they're all feats he's pulled off, it's Minatos strongest state/form and the only power he got.

Yeah but Minato and Kurama were sealed together and if I remember correctly those sealed by the reaper fight for all eternity in there. Perhaps that explains why he was able to use it as an edo because he beat Kurama during the time they were both sealed.. that or just the advantages of being an edo helped him. Yeah I know I agree with feats and all but thats not what I'm talking about.. I'm just saying he can't automatically become a perfect jinchuriki after just sealing Kurama in him.

 

[Minator93]

Minato wins more time than Tobirama does, that's all there is to it

 

[Valhorus]

Seeing people to use the argument about how Tobirama invented FTG and how Minato is using his invention and then saying Tobirama wins is making me laugh so hard .

 

[Memento Mori]

minato wins this

 

[Phact]

He already said he is inferior to minato

 

[Gold Lightning]

Having debated several times on this match-up, I've concluded there's literally no point in debating it. No one's gonna convince anyone on who wins.

Don't you mean no Tobirama fan is going to convince minato fans and vice versa. Besides it's more down to what the majority and neutrals say. And even though polls don't mean much, they still say a lot when there's a substantial difference in votes. I personally feel that kishi used painfully obvious hints and several different references to show which one of the 2 is more superior but I guess denial is a powerful thing.

Yeah but Minato and Kurama were sealed together and if I remember correctly those sealed by the reaper fight for all eternity in there. Perhaps that explains why he was able to use it as an edo because he beat Kurama during the time they were both sealed.. that or just the advantages of being an edo helped him. Yeah I know I agree with feats and all but thats not what I'm talking about.. I'm just saying he can't automatically become a perfect jinchuriki after just sealing Kurama in him.

I still don't understand how minato was able to master the kyuubi chakra mode in the first place; let alone become a perfect Jinchuuriki. Seems like a major plot device to me (not that I'm complaining) and at the end of the day it's all just speculation. Which is why I find it easier to just stick to the feats I've seen since not everything is fully explained.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

If Minato were to have Kurama, how does that change the outcome?

Tobirama's fighting style is as much as Minato meaning using big jutsu's isn't effective against these two. Thats all Kurama will supply.

In fact it will make Minato a bigger target.

Someone refresh my memory.

 

[Gold Lightning]

If Minato were to have Kurama, how does that change the outcome?

Tobirama's fighting style is as much as Minato meaning using big jutsu's isn't effective against these two. Thats all Kurama will supply.

In fact it will make Minato a bigger target.

Someone refresh my memory.

Let's not forget than in Bijuu Mode (Naruto and Minatos chakra avatar version) a shadow clone can still be made to go and attack Tobirama, than clone can also summon toads. Tobirama will have his hands full trying to deal with a Bijuu, Giant toads and shadow clone which can also use sage mode btw. Tobirama can counter with his own clones of course, but Minato can just match the amount of clones he makes, in addition to the toads, Bijuu etc. So it's a bit overwhelming for Tobirama tomdesl with alone.

 

[Conspirator.]

Alive Minato does NOT have kurama. Anyway, minato still wins.

 

[Touken]

You're talking to me about denial? First of all, you're going off compliments to believe Minato is superior. Secondly, this is the same Minato fan who believes SM is useable in battle for Minato, denying what the character himself actually said. Don't talk to me about denial you silly buffoon.

 

[Valhorus]

You're talking to me about denial? First of all, you're going off compliments to believe Minato is superior. Secondly, this is the same Minato fan who believes SM is useable in battle for Minato, denying what the character himself actually said. Don't talk to me about denial you silly buffoon.

And when Minato said his SM is not usable in combat ? Refresh me , show me that "SM is not usable " , their fighting style is almost the same , and if u think Tobirama is superior show me with what , cuz looking in the manga is not helping to see where Tobirama is superior to Minato overall.

 

[Gold Lightning]

You're talking to me about denial? First of all, you're going off compliments to believe Minato is superior. Secondly, this is the same Minato fan who believes SM is useable in battle for Minato, denying what the character himself actually said. Don't talk to me about denial you silly buffoon.

Considering Minato just used sage mode in battle against the Juubi Jinchuuriki and the fact that the viz translation suggests that he has used it in battle i seriously have no idea what you're talking about. Name calling, seems I got another Tobirama fan mad butt hurt.

Keep denying the sm feats, there are other minato fans here that have even better arguments than I have for his senjutsu ability.

And it's not just compliments, there are other factors such as the FTG versatility, Tobirama not being a sage like his brother, the superior summons, the hype of other characters or the fact that minato is still fighting while Tobirama is well... -_-. I can give scans upon scans.

 

[Optimistic]

Minato is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of Tobiramas league.

 

[Latios]

Minato himself said that he was shit at sage mode....