[Theory] The truth about the wood style and Ashura

Byron123

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Just have in mind that when I wrote this theory I thought tbased on the given translation, that hagoromo's brother was too a jinchuuriki, nonetheless if you change some things you could see that it can still be true. For example, Hagoromo's brother might have sealed Juubi's body alone in some form in order to weaken it before sealing it completely.


Hello guys,


Last chapter brought many questions and gave me some interesting thoughts about wood style properties.

Till now we thought that in order to get the rinnegan you need both the wood style and the uchiha dna, however, is that all that there is in it?

In last chapter we saw that Ashura, the sage's son was described as nothing special and all the power he got was through his training. However, wood style is a kekkei genkai and that either you have it from birth or you don't...or you acquire through a different method...

Returning to my first point, it's true that the sage did have the rinnegan but that was because he was born by the woman who had eaten the fruit which had Juubi's chakra and therefore its essence. Being said that, the same goes for his brother as well.

BUT if you really think about it based on what the sage said I realized that for him only the power of the eyes seemed a characteristic of his own and one that he expected to be inherited while he never spoke of any kekkei genkai nor for anything else.

Coming now to the sealing part of the Juubi, Hagoromo didn't say that his brother died, he didn't in fact say anything at all, however he did say that they sealed the Juubi in "themselves", which brings up the whole dividing part. On the one hand we have the sage's sons, one with powerful eyes and one other with nothing interesting which brings up the question: where the hell is the wood style in all that? Till now we thought that Ashura had taken Juubi's body's characteristics while Indra its eyes, however it doesn't seem to be the case.

My theory is that by sealing the Juubi in fact in Kaguya's two sons, Hagoromo was able to pass on one of his sons the Juubi's eyes while his brother acquired the respective ability but for its body's properties.

Now you may ask then how Ashura did acquire the wood style after all. The truth is artificially. First of all, to be able to survive while having the wood style and be able to use it, you would need to train a lot your body so that you can be able to use. That doesn't contradict with what Hagoromo stated as Ashura did train a lot to acquire "the same power as Indra's".

However, the one that gave him the ability to use wood style after that was Hagoromo's brother whom I suspect to be the ancestor of the uzumaki clan. Him having inside of him half of Juubi would make sense to possess the ability to pass on its body as his brother could with its eyes.

Now before you say that this is bull because we saw that Hagoromo did have eventually the whole Juubi inside of him when he devided it, something which can be proved about how the latter was capable of fully being revived by the fragments Hagoromo divided, let me just tell you that his brother could have simply died at one point.

In any case, being said that, I'm starting to wonder, who says that the senju clan didn't later become known for their powerful bodies only because they exercised a lot like Ashura did? It's not certain to begin with that Ashura had any children and so it's not like that any of his powers would pass on the next generations, let alone the fact that acquisition of a strong body through hard training is not an inherited trait, you have to gain it on your own.


Based on what the sage said, his son was known for gathering people around him so it would make sense for them to follow his steps.

Also, as for the reason for which he himself didn't pass it on others would be, I'll guess, out of fear of abuse of power. Let's accept it, from what we saw till now based on hashirama's power, wood style is on a complete different level compared to its counterpart (I'm not talking about the rinnegan). A prime example of that is the huge gap in power between Hashirama and madara at theit final fight. Hashirama's summoning was capable of figthing equally and even overwhelm Kurama in its full power while it was equipped with Perfect Susanoo!!

Also, the abuse of power is something that had in fact taken effect as we saw in l chapter 670 with Kaguya who became indeed the shinigami, for her sins, as Hagoromo said and what a more fitting way to be able to be called back by an uzumaki mask if what I say about her other son being the ancestor of the uzumaki clan is correct?

In any case, if indeed her other son, the uzumaki ancestor gave to Ashura the wood style it would explain why the 2 clans had such good relationships. In regards now to Hashirama and how he as well acquired the same technique, I would say in the same way Ashura had and in fact I believe, as I had stated in an previous prediction of mine that

"I think that his use of wood style might be a technique that was handed to him by the uzumaki clan, maybe as an offer to have peace with them in exchange for a marriage with one of their priestess and more specifically with Mito Uzumaki. You might say how I came to this conclusion, well the simple reason is because I couldn't find anything else that made Hashirama special in terms of his other clansmen other than the fact that he was married with an uzumaki priestess, a powerful one, considering the fact she could keep under contol the whole Kurama."

My point is that if hagoromo's brother was indeed the future uzumaki ancestor, maybe the wood style passed down in fact on uzumaki while the senju had nothing special on their own and their power was something that they acquired through hard training. The reason for not seeing any of the uzumaki using it is because they might have deemed it as a forbidden jutsu because of its overwhelming strength ( I mean just look at Hashirama's wood style abilities, he even has access on the 5 basic elements!) and they decided to give it only to Hashirama only because they were certain of their good will. P.S The reason for being wiped out was supposedly the fear other villages had for the uzumaki as they regarded them as powerful, the possesion of wood style could be an extra reason for being regarded as such. Besides, it's like a forbidden one that passed from a group of priests only to specific members. If you really think about it, we have seen something similar in the past against that guy hidan and kakuzu killed, he was also a priest and he as well had access to a powerful technique only because he was a member of that temple.

UPDATE!
Seeing that people have misinterpeted what I said about the uzumaki thing, I would like to make a clarification. I don't mean that mokuton as a kekkei genkai could be used by the uzumaki freely but rather that it was entrusted to them. They don't only deem it forbidden but they sealed it away as a technique in general only to be passed to those who deemed as worthy of not abusing that power.

Lastly you should put the rinnegan in the wider equation: Rinnegan is not only the end result of 2 other powers but it's also one of Juubi's features along with mokuton which is its second characteristic. To be complete you don't only need rinnegan but also mokuton.

In any case, that's all from me, I hope that you found my theory interesting =D I might make some corrections later.
 
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VongolaX

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I read up to the theory...

How can wood style come from the younger son, when the sage said that Idara acquired all of his powers?

The younger soon is a late bloomer no doubt(like Obito and Naruto), but his strength was through the support of others.
(Which represents senju: a few thousand hands/support).

The sage said that he later bloomed in equal power through his body which consist of Natural energy, physical energy, and yang chakra.
Besides the possibility of of a a Sage mode, his physical energy was just the same as Naruto's kcm mode.

Where does this mutation of mokuton come to play, when the older son is said to acquire this power?
 

Byron123

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Nice wall of text, I think he had Wood Release from birth, except it was yamato level ..
Sorry but reading theories can't be like reading comics, get used to it.
I read up to the theory...

How can wood style come from the younger son, when the sage said that Idara acquired all of his powers?

The younger soon is a late bloomer no doubt(like Obito and Naruto), but his strength was through the support of others.
(Which represents senju: a few thousand hands/support).

The sage said that he later bloomed in equal power through his body which consist of Natural energy, physical energy, and yang chakra.
Besides the possibility of of a a Sage mode, his physical energy was just the same as Naruto's kcm mode.

Where does this mutation of mokuton come to play, when the older son is said to acquire this power?
I think that you misunderstood what I'm trying to say what I'm trying to prove is exactly that wood style is not something Yashura acquired from birth like everyone thought, from the sage but quite in contrary it was never hagoromo's characteristic but based on what I hypothesised, a characteristic of hagoromo's brother who had sealed the other half of the Juubi inside of it and therefore his uncle gave it to him.
 

valandil988

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So what you are saying, is that Hagaromo gained the eye techniques of the Juubi "Rinnegan", and his brother gained the body techniques of the juubi "Mokuton?".

But that doesn't explain Hashirama at all....why does he have the Mokuton then?


And if as a lot of people are suggesting that the other brother founded the Hyuuga and Uzumaki. The uzumaki were never know of the mokuton so it doesn't make sense form that perspective either.

Mokuton still doesn't really make sense at all.

You can't just give people the Mokuton its an extremely destructive technique that destroys the hosts bodies if not careful.

IF the Uzumaki are the true users of this technique then why aren't they known for it?
 
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Byron123

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So what you are saying, is that Hagaromo gained the eye techniques of the Juubi "Rinnegan", and his brother gained the body techniques of the juubi "Mokuton?".

But that doesn't explain Hashirama at all....why does he have the Mokuton then?


And if as a lot of people are suggesting that the other brother founded the Hyuuga and Uzumaki. The uzumaki were never know of the mokuton so it doesn't make sense form that perspective either.

Mokuton still doesn't really make sense at all.
I did explain it about Hashirama, it would make great sense for him to have acquired it via the uzumaki clan because based on the new deviding equation I established, it would be possible for Hagoromo's brother to have it. I did also say why non of the uzumaki had used it. I don't say that they have it in their dna definetely but more like a secret ritual via which you can get access in it. Maybe a specifc ceremony or sealing that was passed from hagoromo's brother to only a handful of them.
 

valandil988

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I did explain it about Hashirama, it would make great sense for him to have acquired it via the uzumaki clan because based on the new deviding equation I established, it would be possible for Hagoromo's brother to have it. I did also say why non of the uzumaki had used it. I don't say that they have it in their dna definetely but more like a secret ritual via which you can get access in it. Maybe a specifc ceremony or sealing that was passed from hagoromo's brother to only a handful of them.
That sounds far fetched, so Mokuton isn't a bloodline? Erm sorry? I'm not quite seeing how this fits into the Naruto verse.
 

Byron123

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That sounds far fetched, so Mokuton isn't a bloodline? Erm sorry? I'm not quite seeing how this fits into the Naruto verse.
No it is indeed but it's like a forbidden one that passed from a group of priests only to specific members. If you really think about it, we have seen something similar in the past against that guy hidan and kakuzu killed, he was also a priest and he as well had access to a powerful technique only because he was a member of that temple.
 

VolatileSoul

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This is wrong. Not all bloodlines work that way. Uchiha don't have Sharingan from birth, and Uchiha and Indra's bloodline in general is the only one comparable to the younger. We were told he awoke his powers at a later date, so that's what happened. Mokuton wasn't said to be the requirement for Rinnegan either. DNA from any Senju should probably do the trick.
 

Ahmed1993

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Well you can have a Kekkei Genkai that you need to unlock in order to use like the Sharingan , MS etc...
We don't know if that applies to the Mokuton but we didn't see Hashirama rocking it when he was a kid , so its safe to assume that it needs unlocking/training in order to use it.

Hagoromo did say that through training and hard work , the power within Ashura bloomed , so its clear that he inherited the body characteristic of his father.
As for Hagoromo's brother , i think that while Hagoromo sealed the body of the Juubi inside him , his brother sealed the mind of the Juubi inside him.

But lets read your theory first.

Now you may ask then how Ashura did acquire the wood style after all. The truth is artificially. First of all, to be able to survive while having the wood style and be able to use it, you would need to train a lot your body so that you can be able to use. That doesn't contradict with what Hagoromo stated as Ashura did train a lot to acquire "the same power as Indra's".

However, the one that gave him the ability to use wood style after that was Hagoromo's brother whom I suspect to be the ancestor of the uzumaki clan. Him having inside of him half of Juubi would make sense to possess the ability to pass on its body as his brother could with its eyes.
The Sage's brother giving Ashura the Mokuton and training him to master is indeed plausible , but i don't dig it because the Rinnegan is not a Dojutsu that can be supported or used to its full potential by someone who only has the eyes genes.
You need to have the body characteristic of the Juubi in order to use it to its full potential.

Also, as for the reason for which he himself didn't pass it on others would be, I'll guess, out of fear of abuse of power. Let's accept it, from what we saw till now based on hashirama's power, wood style is on a complete different level compared to its counterpart (I'm not talking about the rinnegan). A prime example of that is the huge gap in power between Hashirama and madara at theit final fight. Hashirama's summoning was capable of figthing equally and even overwhelm Kurama in its full power while it was equipped with Perfect Susanoo!!
True but that was Sage Mode enhanced Mokuton , and Madara didn't have the spiral Rinnegan or proto Rinnegan if you like ( Indra's Dojutsu ) , so we can't say that the Mokuton is the prominent one.
Here is my theory on why Madara was inferior to Hashirama.


well the simple reason is because I couldn't find anything else that made Hashirama special in terms of his other clansmen
His unnatural chakra reserve even among his clansmen , heck in fact the dude was a genius since he was a kid.
Madara as kid was able to beat adult Senju yet he was beaten by a kid Hashirama in their first fight. ( friendly fight ).

he even has access on the 5 basic elements!)
When was it stated that he has the 5 elements ? O__O , i know he had earth , water and wood elements but not the 5.


All in all its not a bad theory , you have good points like Kaguya becoming the Shinigami and the descendants of Hagoromo's brother but as i said i don't agree on Ashura's part , because Hagoromo clearly said that he was a late bloomer.
 
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spidercraker

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I don't think Ashura has a mokuton. He has bijuu mode, but I don't think he is a Jinjuuriki cause bijuu were kids back then. Also Mokuton is unique. Only Hashi and SO6P(maybe) can use it. Also the bodies of Ashura and Hashi made them powerful. It enhanced their kkg(wood style) or another jutsu.
 

NaruSasuRival

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I think most people are misinterpreting Hagoromo's statement in the same way they misinterpreted Tobirama's Uchiha love story. From what Hagoromo said, it is clear that both Indra and Ashura were born with their respective equal power. However, as a kid, Ashura had hard time being good, which means his power was hidden or maybe unknown to him.

This can be understood by the conclusion on this page.

You must be registered for see images


As you can see, Ashura had the chakra within himself from the beginning. The only problem is that the chakra bloomed after a while. In fact, his appearance show clearly that he inherited the power from his father.
 

Byron123

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This is wrong. Not all bloodlines work that way. Uchiha don't have Sharingan from birth, and Uchiha and Indra's bloodline in general is the only one comparable to the younger. We were told he awoke his powers at a later date, so that's what happened. Mokuton wasn't said to be the requirement for Rinnegan either. DNA from any Senju should probably do the trick.
As for what you said about the bloodlines I'll agree that I was too perpendicular but as for the senju in general being a recuirement and the mokuton specifically I'll exercise veto because if what you say is correct then there would have been many people who would have awakened it at one point or another if they could kill just a random fodder and if you go by saying that they simply didn't know it, I'll say no because in Madara's case he did have knoweledge on that yet he despite to figth against the strongeest possible candidate while according to you there was an easy way out of it.
Well you can have a Kekkei Genkai that you need to unlock in order to use like the Sharingan , MS etc...
We don't know if that applies to the Mokuton but we didn't see Hashirama rocking it when he was a kid , so its safe to assume that it needs unlocking/training in order to use it.

Hagoromo did say that through training and hard work , the power within Ashura bloomed , so its clear that he inherited the body characteristic of his father.
As for Hagoromo's brother , i think that while Hagoromo sealed the body of the Juubi inside him , his brother sealed the mind of the Juubi inside him.

But lets read your theory first.



The Sage's brother giving Ashura the Mokuton and training him to master is indeed plausible , but i don't dig it because the Rinnegan is not a Dojutsu that can be supported or used to its full potential by someone who only has the eyes genes.
You need to have the body characteristic of the Juubi in order to use it to its full potential.



True but that was Sage Mode enhanced Mokuton , and Madara didn't have the spiral Rinnegan or proto Rinnegan if you like ( Indra's Dojutsu ) , so we can't say that the Mokuton is the prominent one.
Here is my theory on why Madara was inferior to Hashirama.




His unnatural chakra reserve even among his clansmen , heck in fact the dude was a genius since he was a kid.
Madara as kid was able to beat adult Senju yet he was beaten by a kid Hashirama in their first fight. ( friendly fight ).



When was it stated that he has the 5 elements ? O__O , i know he had earth , water and wood elements but not the 5.


All in all its not a bad theory , you have good points like Kaguya becoming the Shinigami and the descendants of Hagoromo's brother but as i said i don't agree on Ashura's part , because Hagoromo clearly said that he was a late bloomer.
Thank you for your constructive criticism I really appreciate it=D

Now back to business,
what you said about the mind and the body was also one of my thoughts but what made me to rule it out was that when we saw kaguya's 2 sons fighting, it already seemed mindless, ofc that's may be completely subjective.

As for hagoromo and him being the one having, I have my doubts because his reactions did not show the slightest sign of mokuton being a characteristic of his, he didn't even mention it, he only spoke about eyes. Also, as for the explanation you gave with the huge chakra reserves I'm sorry but I simply can't believe that in all those senju, there wasn't even one who was capabe of pulling it off. Besides we have seen that it is possible to use mokuton of lower level like Zetsu and Tenzo have done and in Tenzo's case particularly he never seemed to have any extraordinary chakra.

Lastly, what I said about the 5 elements was stated indirectly when Spiral Zetsu was able to use them through his summmoning.
 

Byron123

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I think most people are misinterpreting Hagoromo's statement in the same way they misinterpreted Tobirama's Uchiha love story. From what Hagoromo said, it is clear that both Indra and Ashura were born with their respective equal power. However, as a kid, Ashura had hard time being good, which means his power was hidden or maybe unknown to him.

This can be understood by the conclusion on this page.

You must be registered for see images


As you can see, Ashura had the chakra within himself from the beginning. The only problem is that the chakra bloomed after a while. In fact, his appearance show clearly that he inherited the power from his father.
I have thought of that page but what confuses me is that the sage did not react to mokuton as if it was something he had. He only spoke about powerful eyes, it looked as if that was all he expected from his sons. Besides, if we do take your scenario as being the possible case then answer me this: why apart from Ashura the only other persn capable of using it was Hashirama? If it all was a matter of power then surely others before him should have been able to use it, even to a lower extent like Zetsu and Tezno do. But no, nothing ever was stated about anyone else. The only person about whom we know with certainty that possessed it and that it was his own was Hashirama and that man is coincidentally the only one we know of being in marriage with an uzumaki priestess. I don't know about you but something rings hollow to me with all these coincidences.
 

Ahmed1993

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As for what you said about the bloodlines I'll agree that I was too perpendicular but as for the senju in general being a recuirement and the mokuton specifically I'll exercise veto because if what you say is correct then there would have been many people who would have awakened it at one point or another if they could kill just a random fodder and if you go by saying that they simply didn't know it, I'll say no because in Madara's case he did have knoweledge on that yet he despite to figth against the strongeest possible candidate while according to you there was an easy way out of it.


Thank you for your constructive criticism I really appreciate it=D

Now back to business,
what you said about the mind and the body was also one of my thoughts but what made me to rule it out was that when we saw kaguya's 2 sons fighting, it already seemed mindless, ofc that's may be completely subjective.

As for hagoromo and him being the one having, I have my doubts because his reactions did not show the slightest sign of mokuton being a characteristic of his, he didn't even mention it, he only spoke about eyes. Also, as for the explanation you gave with the huge chakra reserves I'm sorry but I simply can't believe that in all those senju, there wasn't even one who was capabe of pulling it off. Besides we have seen that it is possible to use mokuton of lower level like Zetsu and Tenzo have done and in Tenzo's case particularly he never seemed to have any extraordinary chakra.

Lastly, what I said about the 5 elements was stated indirectly when Spiral Zetsu was able to use them through his summmoning.
Maybe that shoot about them fighting the Juubi is after they sealed the mind in Hagoromo's brother because the latter looked exactly like Rikudo Madara , but who knows...

Hagormo didn't spoke about any of his powers , its was Naruto who mentioned the Rinnegan in Hagoromo's eyes.
But if you are talking about his sons , then yea he didn't mention anything about Ashura's powers , he only said :
" One inherited my eye genes and powerful chakra while the other didn't "
This can't be interpreted through many ways like he meant :
-Ashura didn't have any special powers
-Ashura didn't have the eye genes but did have the body genes.

Before Hashirama's era , yea probably but during his era and after that , then no simply because than only his cells are used to empower the prominent Uchihas.

Sorry but that's a feat of a special Zetsu possessing Tenzo , we can't be sure whether Hashirama did have that feat or not.
 

Six Paths

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A Great Theory, makes lot of Sense. The Senju didn't have anuthing special only the strongly trained bodies. The Wood style might have actually came from The Uzumaki clan ancestor.
 
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