Rock Lee vs Kakuzu

paratise

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Okay THIS argument I admit is ridiculous, the K11 take Kakazu with ease, especially if they have Shika coordinating them. Tenten was able to one-shot a heart with one single strong blow. These hearts are versatile but Hinata, Lee and Neji devastate them. If anyone has seen the final fight in Naruto: The Inheritors of the Will of Fire then you'll have seen the combined power of the K11 in action and they were taking down huge beasts with top teamwork and ease. I know it's a movie but it showed nothing that wasn't of their capabilities.

PS: I believe that the K11 combined with planning can beat Itachi ;)

By ridiculous i assuming you mean something good as the rest of your post suggests:eww:

Itachi? Mmmm make a k11 vs Itachi thread and see the responses XD

But i gotta say this...
Shikamaru can be shilded by Katsuyu for being protected from Amaterasu and his shadows can sweep underneath Susanoo, after than mindswitch by Ino from distance like she did against Hinata can be a good strategy.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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By ridiculous i assuming you mean something good as the rest of your post suggests:eww:

Itachi? Mmmm make a k11 vs Itachi thread and see the responses XD

But i gotta say this...
Shikamaru can be shilded by Katsuyu for being protected from Amaterasu and his shadows can sweep underneath Susanoo, after than mindswitch by Ino from distance like she did against Hinata can be a good strategy.

Yeah totally on your side, saying Kakazu can even survive that 11 on 1 is ridiculous.

+That is but one really smart strategy that Shikamaru would use. Honestly, the true strength of the K11 when bundled together as 1 fighting team is Shikamaru. The guy who can make 1000 scenarios and knows all of these guys and their movesets inside out, the K11 are some of the most diverse and useful ninja Shikamaru can have at his disposal, you're smart and was able to think up the Sakura/Ino/Shika way of getting Itachi...imagine how many match-ups like that Shikamaru can make...
 

Legendary Toad Sage

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Kakuzu activates Domu and watches Lee tire himself out. Nothing in Lee's offense suggests that he can bypass Domu as of now.
 

Touken

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Kakuzu activates Domu and watches Lee tire himself out. Nothing in Lee's offense suggests that he can bypass Domu as of now.
He isn't reacting to Lee quick enough to perform the hand seals for Domu.
 

Legendary Toad Sage

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He isn't reacting to Lee quick enough to perform the hand seals for Domu.

Lee has to first open the gates, and then charge at Kakuzu.

Definitely can erect Domu in that amount of time, since he has never been displayed weaving hand signs anyways.
 

makosheva7

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hate to say it but Kakuzu will probably win high diff
 

Touken

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Lee has to first open the gates, and then charge at Kakuzu.

Definitely can erect Domu in that amount of time, since he has never been displayed weaving hand signs anyways.
He isn't going to stay in Domu for the rest of the battle. As soon as he deactivates Domu to move, Lee blitzes with Morning Peacock.
 

WreckRolled

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hakuzu can't move while using domu, lee in gates would wipe the floor with kakuzu thanks to his speed but it would be useless since kakuzu is made of threads and if for some reason he dies his masks would just return inside his body, at that point if he gets attacked again in his he can just grab lee with all his thread and take his heart...his large scale fire and wind is a problem too

chouji gets owned
 
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Latios

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hakuzu can't move while using domu, lee in gates would wipe the floor with kakuzu thanks to his speed but it would be useless since kakuzu is made of threads, and if for some reason he dies his masks would just return inside his body, at that point if he gets attacked again in his he can just grab lee with all his thread and take his heart...his large scale fire and wind could be a problem too

chouji gets owned
That's only if he makes his whole body diamond. He can still move and make his body partially diamond.
 

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He isn't going to stay in Domu for the rest of the battle. As soon as he deactivates Domu to move, Lee blitzes with Morning Peacock.

Lee having the ability to use the sixth gate doesn't automatically grant him the ability to use Morning Peacock, nor does it grant him the proficiency in Hachimon to use it correctly. Pure assumption that he can even use that correctly at this very moment. Very doubtful that an incomplete Morning Peacock could take down the same guy who was still alive after taking a Rasenshuriken at point blank range.

Multiple times in the manga, we have been shown that getting accustomed to the pain of a gate (particularly one never opened before) can interfere with the technique they plan to use.

Lee's fight against Gaara
Seen here Lee wasn't accustomed to the pain and paused for a brief moment to recollect himself.

Gai's fight against Madara
Also seen here when Gai wasn't accustomed to the pain and halted his assault.
 

Touken

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Lee having the ability to use the sixth gate doesn't automatically grant him the ability to use Morning Peacock, nor does it grant him the proficiency in Hachimon to use it correctly. Pure assumption that he can even use that correctly at this very moment. Very doubtful that an incomplete Morning Peacock could take down the same guy who was still alive after taking a Rasenshuriken at point blank range.

The minimum requirement for Morning Peacock is 6th Gate and Morning Peacock is just punching quickly while in 6G. Proficiency has nothing to do with Gates, all it does is remove limits. One person's 6G can't be better than another person's 6G. Kakuzu couldn't even move after being hit by Rasenshuriken and Morning Peacock killed Kisame who has much better durability showings.
Multiple times in the manga, we have been shown that getting accustomed to the pain of a gate (particularly one never opened before) can interfere with the technique they plan to use.

Lee's fight against Gaara
Seen here Lee wasn't accustomed to the pain and paused for a brief moment to recollect himself.

Gai's fight against Madara
Also seen here when Gai wasn't accustomed to the pain and halted his assault.
Lee's been slipping in and out of Gates and has shown no fatigue [ ][ ]. Both Lee and Gai have extremely high pain tolerance. The 8th Gate is the only exception to this rule and that makes sense considering a person can't train while in the 8th Gate.
 
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Legendary Toad Sage

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The minimum requirement for Morning Peacock is 6th Gate and Morning Peacock is just punching quickly while in 6G. Proficiency has nothing to do with Gates, all it does is remove limits.

Sorry, I did not convey my message correctly. When I say Hachimon proficieny, I simply mean pain tolerance and endurance. Gai can perform Morning Peacock with absolute minimal drawback, where as Lee would probably be worn out to the point of exhaustion (assuming his variation is even as deadly as Gai's). Also take into account that there very well may be a pause in the middle of the technique due to Lee accustoming himself with the pain.


Kakuzu couldn't even move after being hit by Rasenshuriken and Morning Peacock killed Kisame who has much better durability showings.

Rasenshuriken is on an entirely different level then Morning Peacock, and we can't necessarily draw the conclusion the Lee can do as much damage as Gai could.

One person's 6G can't be better than another person's 6G.
One persons gates can definitely be better then the next persons.
This is defined by...
> The durability of the user
> The base physical stats of the user
> The taijutsu skill of the user


Lee's been slipping in and out of Gates and has shown no fatigue [ ][ ]. Both Lee and Gai have extremely high pain tolerance. The 8th Gate is the only exception to this rule and that makes sense considering a person can't train while in the 8th Gate.

Entering and exiting the gates do not induce as much strain as Primary Lotus, Hidden Lotus, Morning Peacock, or Afternoon Tiger. Lee has done nothing in regards to pushing his bodies physical limits (the fore mentioned techniques), he is (like you've said) simply seen entering and exiting the gates. There is no telling what preforming Morning Peacock would do to his body.

Furthermore, I love debating with someone who is obsessed with Hachimon as I am and actually has a fantastic understanding of the concept instead of looking at it at face value. Kudos.
 

Latios

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The minimum requirement for Morning Peacock is 6th Gate and Morning Peacock is just punching quickly while in 6G. Proficiency has nothing to do with Gates, all it does is remove limits. One person's 6G can't be better than another person's 6G. Kakuzu couldn't even move after being hit by Rasenshuriken and Morning Peacock killed Kisame who has much better durability showings.

Lee's been slipping in and out of Gates and has shown no fatigue [ ][ ]. Both Lee and Gai have extremely high pain tolerance. The 8th Gate is the only exception to this rule and that makes sense considering a person can't train while in the 8th Gate.
Lee hasn't even been shown to be capable of using 6G Moves...
 

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Lee hasn't even been shown to be capable of using 6G Moves...

It isn't far fetched.

Hachimon isn't (for example) like Sage Mode, where X mode must be activated in order to use X technique. Upon entering gate six you should automatically have acquired the physical stats to at least perform the technique to some extent.
 

Latios

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It isn't far fetched.

Hachimon isn't (for example) like Sage Mode, where X mode must be activated in order to use X technique. Upon entering gate six you should automatically have acquired the physical stats to at least perform the technique to some extent.
I doubt Lee has it considering he just unlocked 6th Gate
 

Legendary Toad Sage

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I doubt Lee has it considering he just unlocked 6th Gate


It's not something you acquire after training lol.

As soon as Lee opened the sixth gate he was eligible to use the technique. The techniques themselves are not difficult to preform, rather people just lack the physical stats to do so, hence the opening of the gates. Will Lee's Morning Peacock be able to match the potency of Gai's or harm Kakuzu? Doubt it. But realistically speaking there is no reason he would not be able to use it.
 

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Sorry, I did not convey my message correctly. When I say Hachimon proficieny, I simply mean pain tolerance and endurance. Gai can perform Morning Peacock with absolute minimal drawback, where as Lee would probably be worn out to the point of exhaustion (assuming his variation is even as deadly as Gai's). Also take into account that there very well may be a pause in the middle of the technique due to Lee accustoming himself with the pain.
If Lee does get worn out, it'll only be after he's come out of Gates. I highly doubt he'd use 6G against JM Madara when it could be a risky move and ultimately lead to his death i.e. not maintaining 6G for long and then falling nigh unconscious due to exhaustion, or using a technique and having to stop midway to get used to the pain. It's way too risky against a high level opponent like Madara, he'd be better off using lower level Gates. The fact he decided to use 6G leads me to believe he definitely is "proficient" with 6G.
Rasenshuriken is on an entirely different level then Morning Peacock, and we can't necessarily draw the conclusion the Lee can do as much damage as Gai could.
He just carries on using Morning Peacock until Kakuzu falls.
One persons gates can definitely be better then the next persons.
This is defined by...
> The durability of the user
> The base physical stats of the user
> The taijutsu skill of the user
-If by durability you mean pain tolerance then yes, you're right, but I've already addressed that part.

-Right again, but Lee's already been established as a taijutsu master (don't have the Data Book scan) and I'm pretty sure this showing [ ][ ] shows the gap between Lee and Gai isn't that big.

-Lee's extremely skilled. His physical stats or his skill aren't up to Gai's level but his stats/skill currently should be more than enough for Kakuzu.
Entering and exiting the gates do not induce as much strain as Primary Lotus, Hidden Lotus, Morning Peacock, or Afternoon Tiger. Lee has done nothing in regards to pushing his bodies physical limits (the fore mentioned techniques), he is (like you've said) simply seen entering and exiting the gates. There is no telling what preforming Morning Peacock would do to his body.
Opening the Gates themselves pushes the body to its limits, although I agree using taijutsu techniques puts more strain on the body. I still have confidence that Lee can maintain 6G for quite a while and use Morning Peacock without putting too much strain on his body but inferences made from the manga can't solidify this point.

Furthermore, I love debating with someone who is obsessed with Hachimon as I am and actually has a fantastic understanding of the concept instead of looking at it at face value. Kudos.
Backatcha homie. I think I'll hold off on this debate until Lee gets more feats though. I'm hoping he'll get some in the upcoming chapters.
 
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