Kakashi vs Tobirama

[miromiro]

He was trying to say you weren't, its mr Tobby that said you were.

My bad, sorry.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Keep grasping at straws. You can disagree with Kishi all you want. It is quite clear that Tobirama can use Edo Tensei in battle, and the good thing about his version is that anyone can be used for it.

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Well by all means show me Tobirama using edo tensei using it in battle.

Not sure what that scan is supposed to show me

 

[Penguin]

Well by all means show me Tobirama using edo tensei using it in battle.

Don't need to since it is a manga fact he can use it on multiple occasions by three different people. At some point you think common sense would kick in...

 

[HNIC]

Don't need to since it is a manga fact he can use it on multiple occasions by three different people. At some point you think common sense would kick in...

Doesn't he need actual Edo to do so? People use to argue that Orochimaru couldn't after the hokage were sealed, as if he has none to his disposal. What Edo would Tobimara have?

 

[Bogard]

Not...not sure if serious...I might be misreading the manga...but I am pretty sure Tobirama did have the upper hand against SM Madara and then he got off paneled. I am also pretty sure Juubi Madara hit Minato three times and threw Minato's arm at Kakashi before Kakashi could even think. But......you know.

Madara cut his left arm and went through him multiple times with black rods. How is that not owning? I didn't mention the fact it was off-paneled or not. All what i said is that Tobirama got owned, or am i wrong?

Kakashi on the other hand faced a vastly stronger opponent who tried to shut him down with one counter-attack. He still managed to warp the senpou rasengan at the same second it made contact with his body. To do something like that, you must be capable not only to follow the action but react with good time and fierceful precision, and we talk about an action that happened so fast that even Gaara's automatic defense didn't even manage to protect himself, yet Kakashi reacted just fine

 

[Gold Lightning]

Doesn't he need actual Edo to do so? People use to argue that Orochimaru couldn't after the hokage were sealed, as if he has none to his disposal. What Edo would Tobimara have?

This is exactly what I'm saying.

Back in the day when Orochimaru was in vs threads, edo tensei was restricted or just not mentioned because the Hokage were sealed and people didn't want to presume he had othe edo's due to lack of feats. Same thing here.

 

[Penguin]

Madara cut his left arm and went through him multiple times with black rods. How is that not owning? I didn't mention the fact it was off-paneled or not. All what i said is that Tobirama got owned, or am i wrong?

Kakashi on the other hand faced a vastly stronger opponent who tried to shut him down with one counter-attack. He still managed to warp the senpou rasengan at the same second it made contact with his body. To do something like that, you must be capable not only to follow the action but react with good time and fierceful precision, and we talk about an action that happened so fast that even Gaara's automatic defense didn't even manage to protect himself, yet Kakashi reacted just fine

We know how the fight started, we know the ending, but we don't know the middle due to the off paneling. Just because someone wins does not automatically mean it is a stomp. For all we know, he could have pushed him to high diff, or maybe Tobirama did get stomped. But that is for Kishi to tell us, not for you to decide.

Kakashi also had Minato and Gaara helping him, don't act like he was fighting Madara one on one. You make it sound as if Kakashi were merely waiting for the last second to warp it. Kakashi couldn't even react to Madara's taijutsu, and barely had the time to kamui the rasengan away. Part one lee got past Gaara's defense. Just stop. Lol

Doesn't he need actual Edo to do so? People use to argue that Orochimaru couldn't after the hokage were sealed, as if he has none to his disposal. What Edo would Tobimara have?

His edo summons were shown to be sealed. Tell me, were Tobirama's? Because the manga never mentions his edos being sealed....so....unless you are one for assumptions he has them.

This is exactly what I'm saying.

Back in the day when Orochimaru was in vs threads, edo tensei was restricted or just not mentioned because the Hokage were sealed and people didn't want to presume he had othe edo's due to lack of feats. Same thing here.

Were Tobirama's sealed? Were they even hinted at being sealed?

 

[Nattana]

If Tobirama can get past Kamui snipe, he should win.

Also, Tobirama banned Edo Tensei. He wasn't using this jutsu before his death so there's no reason to think he carries dead bodies/prepared Edo with himself. Moreover, he hasn't summonned any so far, at least on-panel. We are not giving Mei Katon and Doton feats in debates, even though we know she has mastery over these elements, so we shouldn't use ET when discussing Tobirama either.

 

[Touken]

Psst, Mr Pengie, don't try.

 

[Penguin]

If Tobirama can get past Kamui snipe, he should win.

Also, Tobirama banned Edo Tensei. He wasn't using this jutsu before his death so there's no reason to think he carries dead bodies/prepared Edo with himself. Moreover, he hasn't summonned any so far, at least on-panel. We are not giving Mei Katon and Doton feats in debates, even though we know she has mastery over these elements, so we shouldn't use ET when discussing Tobirama either.

Tobirama still used it after banning it. Obviously he did, considering Madara said edo tensei's Gojō Kibaku Fuda "clears the map along with the caster" which implies how Tobirama died. So? Completely different. We know exact jutsu Tobirama can use and people still think it matters which edo tensei summon he gets. Unless this ninja is a paraplegic, it won't matter.

 

[HNIC]

We know how the fight started, we know the ending, but we don't know the middle due to the off paneling. Just because someone wins does not automatically mean it is a stomp. For all we know, he could have pushed him to high diff, or maybe Tobirama did get stomped. But that is for Kishi to tell us, not for you to decide.

Kakashi also had Minato and Gaara helping him, don't act like he was fighting Madara one on one. You make it sound as if Kakashi were merely waiting for the last second to warp it. Kakashi couldn't even react to Madara's taijutsu, and barely had the time to kamui the rasengan away. Part one lee got past Gaara's defense. Just stop. Lol



His edo summons were shown to be sealed. Tell me, were Tobirama's? Because the manga never mentions his edos being sealed....so....unless you are one for assumptions he has them.



Were Tobirama's sealed? Were they even hinted at being sealed?

Whether they were sealed or not they don't exist. We've never witnessed the and for all we know the tags no long exist. We can't presume Orochimaru had sound 5 Edo, but you still need a current sacrifice, which Tobimara doesn't have.

 

[Bogard]

We know how the fight started, we know the ending, but we don't know the middle due to the off paneling. Just because someone wins does not automatically mean it is a stomp. For all we know, he could have pushed him to high diff, or maybe Tobirama did get stomped. But that is for Kishi to tell us, not for you to decide.

Kakashi also had Minato and Gaara helping him, don't act like he was fighting Madara one on one. You make it sound as if Kakashi were merely waiting for the last second to warp it. Kakashi couldn't even react to Madara's taijutsu, and barely had the time to kamui the rasengan away. Part one lee got past Gaara's defense. Just stop. Lol

The fight lasted shorter than the time it took Gaara to travel from one place to a nearby location, so it definitely didn't last that long. A fight not lasting that long with in the end a Madara who is showed not to break a sweat infront of a completely immobilised Tobirama, i won't qualify that as a high difficulty, not a chance

I never said Kakashi was fighting alone as well, but Madara like i've said tried to shut him down, yet he still reacted. You don't seem to understand but i'll give you an example. Imagine thunder hiting the location where you are. Would you have time to notice, react and warp the thunder before it hits your location?

Kakashi was shocked by Madara's taijutsu speed sure, but he still reacted to his counter-attack just fine

Also, part1 is part1. In part2, Gaara's sand reacted to Amaterasu or A in V2

 

[Touken]

Whether they were sealed or not they don't exist. We've never witnessed the and for all we know the tags no long exist. We can't presume Orochimaru had sound 5 Edo, but you still need a current sacrifice, which Tobimara doesn't have.

He doesn't need to sacrifice someone each time he uses ET. He can summon previously reincarnated shinobi.

 

[Gold Lightning]

His edo summons were shown to be sealed. Tell me, were Tobirama's? Because the manga never mentions his edos being sealed....so....unless you are one for assumptions he has them.



Were Tobirama's sealed? Were they even hinted at being sealed?

WE DON'T KNOOOOOW!!!

That's the whole point I'm trying to make, we have no clue what kind of edo's he has, how strong/durable they are. How many he can use at once, absolutely nothing :T_T:

Not trying to be a douche, it's just hard for me to take into consideration Tobirama's edo tensei when I haven't seen anything of it. For all we know, they were all sealed. I've seen better feats from Kabuto's dead sould jutsu.

But if it makes you happy then I guess I'll just accept that he has edo fodder, lets just pretend they're dead senju/uchiha but they're only at 50% power. Since his ET isn't on part 1 Oro's level. :dunno:U_U

 

[HNIC]

He doesn't need to sacrifice someone each time he uses ET. He can summon previously reincarnated shinobi.

You're right, he doesn't need one each one but he hasn't shown any at all.

 

[Nattana]

Tobirama still used it after banning it. Obviously he did, considering Madara said edo tensei's Gojō Kibaku Fuda "clears the map along with the caster" which implies how Tobirama died. So? Completely different. We know exact jutsu Tobirama can use and people still think it matters which edo tensei summon he gets. Unless this ninja is a paraplegic, it won't matter.

Could you post a scan of bold? Can't remember such situation.
Also, the problem with his ET is that we don't even know how much Orochimaru changed it from what it was when Tobirama used to use it. We have completely 0 info on how much preparations he needed etc. + it hasn't been shown on-panel. I'm not hating, but all we've seen as for Tobirama's ET was Gojou Kibaku Fuda used with Oro's version of ET, not Tobirama's.

Still, if Tobirama can dodge Kamui, he would win without much problems, even without ET.

 

[Touken]

WE DON'T KNOOOOOW!!!

That's the whole point I'm trying to make, we have no clue what kind of edo's he has, how strong/durable they are. How many he can use at once, absolutely nothing :T_T:

Not trying to be a douche, it's just hard for me to take into consideration Tobirama's edo tensei when I haven't seen anything of it. For all we know, they were all sealed. I've seen better feats from Kabuto's dead sould jutsu.

But if it makes you happy then I guess I'll just accept that he has edo fodder, lets just pretend they're dead senju/uchiha but they're only at 50% power. Since his ET isn't on part 1 Oro's level.

It doesn't matter if they were at 1% power.

The Senju only went up against the Uchiha, and to my knowledge, no Uchiha has displayed fuuinjutsu. Furthermore, it'd be incredibly difficult to seal an Edo that's essentially a suicide bomber, so I highly doubt any of his Edo were sealed.

 

[Penguin]

Could you post a scan of bold? Can't remember such situation.
Also, the problem with his ET is that we don't even know how much Orochimaru changed it from what it was when Tobirama used to use it. We have completely 0 info on how much preparations he needed etc. + it hasn't been shown on-panel. I'm not hating, but all we've seen as for Tobirama's ET was Gojou Kibaku Fuda used with Oro's version of ET, not Tobirama's.

Still, if Tobirama can dodge Kamui, he would win without much problems, even without ET.

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I am just surprised why people think Tobirama needs a certain ninja for edo. He could use a three year old and it would still be fine. As long as it is not a paraplegic, the edo tensei will be fine. And of course they won't be on the level of part one Orochimaru's, but all his edos need are running speed.

 

[sharingansennin]

Tobirama low Difficulty Uses Edo Tensei

feats of edo tensei? none mkay

 

[Gold Lightning]

It doesn't matter if they were at 1% power.

The Senju only went up against the Uchiha, and to my knowledge, no Uchiha has displayed fuuinjutsu. Furthermore, it'd be incredibly difficult to seal an Edo that's essentially a suicide bomber, so I highly doubt any of his Edo were sealed.

Can they even blow up unless they are in regenerating mode?

in bold: How can you even make an assumption like that lol

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I am just surprised why people think Tobirama needs a certain ninja for edo. He could use a three year old and it would still be fine. As long as it is not a paraplegic, the edo tensei will be fine. And of course they won't be on the level of part one Orochimaru's, but all his edos need are running speed.

It's not about the ninja he has, it's just us not knowing if he has any at all prepped or if they've all been sealed or what not. I'd love to assume Minato can use Wind release but unfortunately I can't because no feats.