Hirudora Destroyed V3 Susano'o

[Optimistic]

So was it a v2 or v3? Regardless of whether susanoo was destroyed or not, it probably tanked/absorbed most of the damage, so madara would probably receive insignificant damage from it. Similar to how kirin obliterated itachi's v2, but failed to hurt him in a significant manner.

just look at the scan posted above where hidorua hits it. It has no legs.

 

[ninthgate]

Lets face it:

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Madara got f*****d up by hirudora.
Kishi made it pretty obvious

 

[Touken]

That would mean that Hirudora destroy V2 plus Madara's body. I dont think that happen. Sussanoo had to at least soften the blow..

Alive Madara was able to recover, after getting his V3 smashed to pieces, by Buijuu tail swipe[

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]. That attack also remove a limb from Madara, yet he was still able to recover.

I dont see Hirudora being as effected here in that scenario^^, thus I believe concussive damage had applied.

@bold, that's what I was implying. He applied no pressure on Bee but he should have bounced back straight away if all Hirudora achieved was destroying Susanoo and nothing more. Alive states should be more durable than Edo states, considering Edo shinobi are made of debris and not flesh, which is far superior to the former. You reckon Lee enhanced by Kurama cloak could also bisect alive Madara? Although I agree with the thread, concussive force would remove Susanoo, bearing in mind Shinsuusenju essentially did that. Doing it over time should achieve the same result.

 

[shelke]

Guess what? I addressed that.


I'll address it now.

This has nothing to do with the actual techniques used while in Gates since the techniques themselves are almost entirely independent from the Gates; the only link they share is the Gates only allow them to use such techniques, the techniques themselves are executed in a set way, showing Gates =/= techniques utilized in Gates. Gai can put limits on his techniques or not. For example, Gai created less flames

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than he did

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.

Like I've addressed before, explosions underwater cause massive internal damage rather than dismembering people. On top of that, I've already stated how Gai can decide whether to put more power into his techniques or not.

lol, Pat put this the best way:

Actually no, the techniques are tied to the gates:

The Extreme Locus cannot be used without opening the said Gates -

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- The limit is removed to allow to Heal - the healing is also automatic - and then to further open the higher Tier Gates to use the Extreme Loctus.

He cannot even do the Initial Loctus without opening the first gate:

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- All these Gates are Limit Removers.

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- Which is why the Eight Eight spells death, as the Self-Destruction of the Body is paralleled with the Extreme Limit removed, which the body can no longer support. What you are suggesting is nothing but speculation, when the manga - as these scans prove - state something completely different.

Once the restrains on Gates are removed, how is the controlling the release of power? That is a huge hole in your explanation. The Gates themselves control the amount of power release, now that the restraints are gone, how is he controlling the power or anything at all, let alone the intensity of the punch which is beyond his control? Come on, even you know that given the manga scans, this doesn't make sense. It's like a car without the brakes. You can use the steering but not the brakes or the increase in speed if it is going down hill.

The manga has explained it fully and clearly.

 

[adeshina365]

It's always the Uchiha fanboys...

You've refuted nothing with that statement.

I love how you didn't even acknowledge the link I posted.

There is no 'V3" Susanoo; Susanoo's shape, size and power exist on a continuum.

 

[Touken]

I love how you didn't even acknowledge the link I posted.

There is no 'V3" Susanoo; Susanoo's shape, size and power exist on a continuum.

I was referring to the "weak evidence" part.

@shelke, I'll get back to you later.

 

[adeshina365]

I was referring to the "weak evidence" part.

@shelke, I'll get back to you later.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Your thread is founded on a false notion. Once you claim that there is a "V3" Susanoo, everything else you say is pointless.

 

[shelke]

I was referring to the "weak evidence" part.

@shelke, I'll get back to you later.

The manga scans are pretty clear cut. I hope you have something up your sleeve that doesn't repeat anything that has already been stated.

 

[~Sky~]

Obviously he destroyed it. Nothing suggests he did not.

 

[Touken]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Your thread is founded on a false notion. Once you claim that there is a "V3" Susanoo, everything else you say is pointless.

Oh, my bad.

There's certain stages of Susanoo that can be defined as versions. It's not clear-cut, but they can still be defined. With what you're saying, it implies that a rib cage Susanoo has the same tanking capabilities as a Complete Susanoo.

 

[adeshina365]

Oh, my bad.

There's certain stages of Susanoo that can be defined as versions. It's not clear-cut, but they can still be defined. With what you're saying, it implies that a rib cage Susanoo has the same tanking capabilities as a Complete Susanoo.

Sure, for purposes of simplicity Susanoo can be loosely categorized. Though, there are situations like with the "unstabilzed" Susanoo where that level doesn't even need to be reached to access "Perfect" Susanoo.

As for your last statement, I'm not sure where I even implied that. A ribcage is only ever going to be so dense. Completed Susanoo have the advantage of muscle and skin formation.

 

[Icelerate]

Makes sense, nice analysis.

About Killing Kisame or not, human are different from materaials.
A bullet can shot someone through stomach, but it may not kill people. Same bullet can get through steel thus damages it; just because a human being can survive it doesn't mean a human is more durable than steel.

Plus, who guarantees Kisame would survive after he got hit? It's not like he would walk out of it, people have a suffereing process before they die. It can be a killer move but not in an instant, Kisame did not die another killing move (V2 lariat) right of the bat either.

No, a bullet is a projectile and would still blow a hole in the human so even if the human survives the hole in the body, it doesn't mean they tanked it. On the other hand, Hirudora is a wide area of effect shockwave and if it is capable of destroying susanoo, any human caught in it is going to be completely obliterated.

As for susanoo being destroyed and the mokuton's grip being loosened, you do realize Madara was pushed back a large distance and wasn't present for a good chapter before being shown again? This means he was too far to do anything so him using susanoo at that particular time wouldn't be wise.

Madara likes to instil horror in his opponents and make them suffer for as long as he can make them which is why he makes statements that he'll finish off his opponents and that he'll go all out but he only ever went all out against Hashirama. He said he'll kill Tsunade but Tsunade is still alive.

 

[Minator93]

What is this? We got the panel of Hirudora destroying the V3Susanoo!

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The top left panel shows the explosion and Susanoo being obliterated to the dust U_U So as I've said from the beggining, Hirudora shits on Susanoo U_U

 

[End of Days]

Why are people trying to use kisame as an excuse?

Was it not explicitly stated and shown that Gai's Hirudora weakened after clashing with Kisame's Daikodan?

Here we see Hirudora's Tiger mouth getting smaller and smaller as it moves forward to Kisame through the Daikodan

Spoiler

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And if this isnt enough here we have Kisame wondering why Daikodan isnt getting absorbed despite the fact that gai's jutsu got deflated

Spoiler

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When Hirudora finally reached Kisame, it was no more than the size of his chest or maybe even smaller

Spoiler

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Compare this to the Hirudora that Madara was struck with

Spoiler

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Its even bigger than his susanoo, and not only that even this hirudora is not the maximum power hirudora since the mokuton was absorbing his chakras

There is a massive power difference between the Hirudora that struck kisame and the one that struck madara and his susanoo

________​

This is the full power Hirudora [

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] (before getting deflated by Daikodan)

 

[Touken]

Spoiler

Why are people trying to use kisame as an excuse?

Was it not explicitly stated and shown that Gai's Hirudora weakened after clashing with Kisame's Daikodan?

Here we see Hirudora's Tiger mouth getting smaller and smaller as it moves forward to Kisame through the Daikodan

Spoiler

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And if this isnt enough here we have Kisame wondering why Daikodan isnt getting absorbed despite the fact that gai's jutsu got deflated

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

When Hirudora finally reached Kisame, it was no more than the size of his chest or maybe even smaller

Spoiler

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You must be registered for see images

Compare this to the Hirudora that Madara was struck with

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Its even bigger than his susanoo, and not only that even this hirudora is not the maximum power hirudora since the mokuton was absorbing his chakras

There is a massive power difference between the Hirudora that struck kisame and the one that struck madara and his susanoo

________​

This is the full power Hirudora [

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] (before getting deflated by Daikodan)

lol, and there's even more reasons as to why it wasn't as strong against Kisame.

Sure, for purposes of simplicity Susanoo can be loosely categorized. Though, there are situations like with the "unstabilzed" Susanoo where that level doesn't even need to be reached to access "Perfect" Susanoo.

As for your last statement, I'm not sure where I even implied that. A ribcage is only ever going to be so dense. Completed Susanoo have the advantage of muscle and skin formation.

What? Then I don't get what was the point of your initial statement.

Actually no, the techniques are tied to the gates:

The Extreme Locus cannot be used without opening the said Gates -

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

- The limit is removed to allow to Heal - the healing is also automatic - and then to further open the higher Tier Gates to use the Extreme Loctus.

He cannot even do the Initial Loctus without opening the first gate:

You must be registered for see links

- All these Gates are Limit Removers.

You must be registered for see links

- Which is why the Eight Eight spells death, as the Self-Destruction of the Body is paralleled with the Extreme Limit removed, which the body can no longer support. What you are suggesting is nothing but speculation, when the manga - as these scans prove - state something completely different.

Once the restrains on Gates are removed, how is the controlling the release of power? That is a huge hole in your explanation. The Gates themselves control the amount of power release, now that the restraints are gone, how is he controlling the power or anything at all, let alone the intensity of the punch which is beyond his control? Come on, even you know that given the manga scans, this doesn't make sense. It's like a car without the brakes. You can use the steering but not the brakes or the increase in speed if it is going down hill.

The manga has explained it fully and clearly.

You're acting as if the Gates are sentient and dictate whatever Gai does, which isn't the case. Yeah, you're right, the Gates are limit removers but I've already said that. Once Gai is in Gates, can he choose whether to punch someone or not? Yeah. When he does punch someone, can he choose to either punch slowly or quickly? Yeah. Can he also choose to punch someone strongly or weakly? The answer's yes again. The same principle applies to Hirudora, as naturally, the faster the punch, the stronger Hirudora becomes. So can he choose to punch very quickly to make a very strong Hirudora, or just punch quick enough to meet the minimum requirements to create Hirudora? Yeah, again. There's a bunch of reasons why Kisame survived Hirudora, refer to End of Days' post, refer to my post regarding what happens in an underwater explosion and there's also this, Gai being able to create a weak Hirudora or a strong Hirudora.

 

[adeshina365]

What? Then I don't get what was the point of your initial statement.

What's not to get? For the purpose of fan simplicity Susanoo can be loosely categorized. This doesn't somehow make these categorizations correct. As I stated previously, Susanoo's form exists on a continuum and there is no "V3" Susanoo.

This is the why notion of Hirudora being able to destroy a "V3" Susanoo is fundamentally flawed. Susanoo of similar form have been showcased to vary significantly in defensive capability (hence densities differ)

 

[Touken]

What's not to get? For the purpose of fan simplicity Susanoo can be loosely categorized. This doesn't somehow make these categorizations correct. As I stated previously, Susanoo's form exists on a continuum and there is no "V3" Susanoo.

This is the why notion of Hirudora being able to destroy a "V3" Susanoo is fundamentally flawed. Susanoo of similar form have been showcased to vary significantly in defensive capability (hence densities differ)

@bold, no, they don't vary significantly in defensive capability. If they do vary, it's by a little, making this little debate completely pointless. V3 Susanoo is all Susanoo that look at least similar to

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in terms of size and bone density. Even though it's a loose categorization, it's not wrong.

 

[Icelerate]

On second thought, right when Hirudora hit susanoo, it does seem like it bent susanoo apart so it may have been destroyed.

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[Draphsin]

On second thought, right when Hirudora hit susanoo, it does seem like it bent susanoo apart so it may have been destroyed.

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It's the same as

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scan. Ay's attack bent susanoo but we get a panel explicitly showing us that it broke. There is nothing to indicate that susanoo was destroyed, but rather pushed back similar to what Ay did.

 

[Icelerate]

It's the same as

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scan. Ay's attack bent susanoo but we get a panel explicitly showing us that it broke. There is nothing to indicate that susanoo was destroyed, but rather pushed back similar to what Ay did.

Ay's punch didn't bend it as much as Gai's Hirudora yet it still did some damage. Now I'm thinking that susanoo did get damaged quite a bit and Madara decided to release it for convenience sake, because let's face it, what good is a broken susanoo especially when it decreases mobility and the fact Madara was pushed back where he couldn't fight against Naruto and co?