[Discussion] Super Saiyan 3

TheRedAndGreenBeast

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Something's been bugging me; we didn't ever get an explanation for Super Saiyan 3. We never know how Goku achieved it and Gotenks seemed to achieve it with however long he was in the hyperbolic time chamber (with Super Saiyan 2). We don't know of the requirements so I'm going to try and have a go at saying my opinion on the matter.

Let's start with the Super Saiyan 1 requirements (these don't apply to Goten and Present Trunks because Toriyama said so) : you have to be under pressure (Goku needed to beat Frieza, Gohan wanted to impress his dad and help his friends and Vegeta needed to surpass Goku and defeat the androids). You have to go through a traumatic experience (Goku: Krillin dies for the 2nd time. Vegeta: Was a slave to Frieza and found out the truth about his planet. Gohan: was useless and watched a lot of his friends die) this tells me that the traumatic experiences can happen at any time but you must NEED to become a Super Saiyan to achieve the form. Lastly, you need to have a power level of at least 3,000,000 (Goku's level vs Frieza). I say this because Vegeta had the other 2 things but lacked this. He trained for a while and surpassed this level and became a Super Saiyan. Gohan reached this in the hyperbolic time chamber where he grew many times stronger.

Super Saiyan 2 requirements: You have to have achieved Mastered Super Saiyan - the form where Super Saiyan takes no energy to activate and maintain. I say this because everybody who has achieved Super Saiyan 2 has achieved this state. You have to reach a certain level of power (Gohan when he was in the hyperbolic time chamber when his potential was showing and he achieved this form). Gohan didn't use 100% against Cell until #16 died because he didn't want to fight. Vegeta and Goku surpassed that level after Cell died. You do NOT have to have an emotional outburst as Goku and Vegeta had nothing to be angry about in the times of peace.

What I think about Super Saiyan 3's requirements: Maybe you have to accept harsh reality like Goku not being able to return to Earth? Goten and Trunks realised that Buu would kill everyone and that they were Earth's last hope but they has not achieved Super Saiyan 2 so they fused and Gotenks achieved Super Saiyan 2 in the time chamber - this is possible because although Goten and Trunks weren't strong enough for Super Saiyan 2, Gotenks was stronger than Goku so this gave them the boost needed and would explain why the two could only achieve this power as Gotenks. Then he achieved Super Saiyan 3 by accepting the fact that life was not all sunshine and roses like they were brought up to believe... Then they goofed around and Buu killed there family and friends... I don't think you have to reach a certain power level as SSJ2 Goku was not THAT much stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan.

TL;DR: I believe that you achieve SSJ3 after accepting reality. You must also have had to achieved SSJ2. This is the only thing I could think of because Toriyama gave us no clues.

Please, share your opinions. :win:
 
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Fuzzy Panda

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Hmm perhaps but didn't Vegeta kinda 'accept reality' before he turned SSJ1:

[video=youtube;iEB1PLC3KZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEB1PLC3KZA[/video]

^Oh and one of my favorite anime scenes of all time :)

Plus he accepts reality when SSJ3 Goku is fighting Kid Buu and he admits that Goku is the best.

Is that what you mean? On another note how sick would SSJ3 Vegeta be?? Haha


I thought it was really a**pull how gotenks achieved SSJ3 after so little time when Goku trained for hundreds of years. Not gonna deny though, still loved it.
 
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TheRedAndGreenBeast

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I could see this. I just figured it was a lot of training and then a**pulll.
I would hate to call it an asspull (though it probably is).
I don't think it's to do with training as Gotenks didn't have much time to train after he fought Fat Buu (he achieved Super Saiyan 2 & 3 in the hyperbolic time chamber).
 

TheRedAndGreenBeast

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Hmm perhaps but didn't Vegeta kinda 'accept reality' before he turned SSJ1:

[video=youtube;iEB1PLC3KZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEB1PLC3KZA[/video]

^Oh and one of my favorite anime scenes of all time :)

Plus he accepts reality when SSJ3 Goku is fighting Kid Buu and he admits that Goku is the best.

Is that what you mean? On another note how sick would SSJ3 Vegeta be?? Haha


I thought it was really a**pull how gotenks achieved SSJ3 after so little time when Goku trained for hundreds of years.
@ your video: I meant the person has to have achieved Siper Saiyan 2 first. Super Saiyan 1 comes from enough power, traumatic experiences and large amounts of pressure.

Damn if only Vegeta got Super Saiyan 3 after that speech! My theory would have been proved correct and DBZ would have ended a bit better.
 

Da Best Ever

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its not like that, it has to be just the potentila and the limits of a person...it is known vegeta was weaker than goku no matter how hard he trained, and he was about 10 years older than goku all which means his ceiling/potential was less than goku's and to futher prove its about potential, just look at Goten and Trunks, they achieve super saiyan when they were just 7 years old...it took goku and vegeta adult hood to do so, and gohan who arguably has the most potential stopped training to become a scholar which diminished his potential...but in the end vegeta never needed to reach ssj 3 because he was stronger than ssj 3 goku anyways as Bills stated...
 

TheRedAndGreenBeast

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its not like that, it has to be just the potentila and the limits of a person...it is known vegeta was weaker than goku no matter how hard he trained, and he was about 10 years older than goku all which means his ceiling/potential was less than goku's and to futher prove its about potential, just look at Goten and Trunks, they achieve super saiyan when they were just 7 years old...it took goku and vegeta adult hood to do so, and gohan who arguably has the most potential stopped training to become a scholar which diminished his potential...but in the end vegeta never needed to reach ssj 3 because he was stronger than ssj 3 goku anyways as Bills stated...
So SSJ3 is reached when you max out your potential (assuming you have enough potential)? I guess that could be right but then Goku goes and gets SSG which boosts his power even more. Or maybe SSG gives you more potential?
 

mistayoung3

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its not like that, it has to be just the potentila and the limits of a person...it is known vegeta was weaker than goku no matter how hard he trained, and he was about 10 years older than goku all which means his ceiling/potential was less than goku's and to futher prove its about potential, just look at Goten and Trunks, they achieve super saiyan when they were just 7 years old...it took goku and vegeta adult hood to do so, and gohan who arguably has the most potential stopped training to become a scholar which diminished his potential...but in the end vegeta never needed to reach ssj 3 because he was stronger than ssj 3 goku anyways as Bills stated...
he was only stronger because he threw away his pride, if u pay attention 2 the movie it clearly say's that ki doesn't work on BiLLS but in the DBZ universe they gauge power through ki so technically Goku was still stronger but Vegeta found a way 2 fight as a god just as Goku did at the end of the movie
 

TheRedAndGreenBeast

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I dunno he had a good bit of time in the chamber. What is it 1 day=1 year or was it 3yrs? If he was in half a day then it'd make sense bc that's 6 months to 1 yr 1/2. That's a lot of time for a Saiyan.
It's x365 so one day is one year. Gotenks spent 30 minutes in there 0.5 x 365 = 182.5 hours or 7.6 days.
 
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Drakengard

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I'm not very familiar with the DBZ verse but wasn't there a speech from Vegeta about how Goku always seemed to surpass him in the Kid Buu fight? Would you say that was "accepting fate"? I kinda forget the speech and I guess you can argue he wasn't going to blindly accept it but that must have been a lot considering his pride x_x
 
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TheRedAndGreenBeast

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Are these 2 different calculations?

I'm not very familiar with the DBZ verse but wasn't there a speech from Vegeta about how Goku always seemed to surpass him in the Kid Buu fight? Would you say that was "accepting fate"? I kinda forget the speech and I guess you can argue he wasn't going to blindly accept it but that must have been a lot considering his pride x_x
Yeah, I agree. That's annoying though because it breaks my theory :(
 

Sea Of Thy Soul

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Goku explained that he attained SSJ3 via training in the other world. He also explained that unlike the other 2 inferior versions, 3 can't be acquired through immense rage. So, yeah, you get it via extensive training.

It's also notable that Gotenks doesn't have SSJ2, he skipped it entirely and attained 3.
At least, that's how it looks like in the anime/ manga and in the games - where he only has two transformations when you select him in battle which is his SSJ form and SSJ3 form.
 

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Goku explained that he attained SSJ3 via training in the other world. He also explained that unlike the other 2 inferior versions, 3 can't be acquired through immense rage. So, yeah, you get it via extensive training.

It's also notable that Gotenks doesn't have SSJ2, he skipped it entirely and attained 3.
At least, that's how it looks like in the anime/ manga and in the games - where he only has two transformations when you select him in battle which is his SSJ form and SSJ3 form.
Good point but when Goku shows the kids SSJ3, he tells them they need to go to SSJ2 first. Also, if you watch Gotenks' SSJ3 transformation, it looks like he goes into SSJ2 for a moment then goes into SSJ3 (or maybe that's just how SSJ3 transformation looks). It would make sense since that's how Goku showed him how to do it. Either that or Gotenks' SSJ3 is just a complete asspull.
 
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