Obito ( Rinnegan ) vs BM Minato?

[Ababeel]

Bring a viz scans then we agree.​

with equal force Naruto's gonna cancel it out?

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[KidGamer65]

with equal force Naruto's gonna cancel it out?

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Was a scan really needed for this? Smh...some people.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

X man is right on this one.. even if Minato is not good with senjutsu he is still a perfect sage. This should be obvious since he has the same exact look as SM Naruto.

A perfect sage that sucks at senjutsu.Which would'nt make sense because logically a Perfect SM user would be to maintain SM far longer than Minato did.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Tomorrow we're getting the viz scan of what minato said.​

Hopefully that scan will put some of these arguments to rest.

 

[iNotorious]

with equal force Naruto's gonna cancel it out?

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I see.​

Hopefully that scan will put some of these arguments to rest.

Indeed, can't wait to read it​

 

[Sennin of Logic]

A perfect sage that sucks at senjutsu.Which would'nt make sense because logically a Perfect SM user would be to maintain SM far longer than Minato did.

Perfect sage is a term people made up. I think "true sage" is the best translation. Minato never said he couldn't perfectly balance chakra. What he said was "it takes too long" which Fukasaku also said about senjutsu in general, and he also said "It doesn't last very long" which is very vague because that's the case for all SM users as well. We don't even know what Minato considers "bad or good senjutsu." For all we know(and this may or may not be the case), Naruto during the Pain invasion, without his reserve clones was, "bad at senjutsu" since he'd fit the description Minato was talking about.

 

[Gold Lightning]

A perfect sage that sucks at senjutsu.Which would'nt make sense because logically a Perfect SM user would be to maintain SM far longer than Minato did.

If he's not a perfect sage, how do you explain the lack of toad features and the markings around his eyes. And pls show me the scan where Minato uses the word "sucks". Because from my understanding, compared to Naruto he's not as good (can't maintain it as long), doesn't mean he's terrible at it because he wouldn't have gotten this far in senjutsu if he "sucked".

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Perfect sage is a term people made up. I think "true sage" is the best translation. Minato never said he couldn't perfectly balance chakra. What he said was "it takes too long" which Fukasaku also said about senjutsu in general, and he also said "It doesn't last very long" which is very vague because that's the case for all SM users as well. We don't even know what Minato considers "bad or good senjutsu." For all we know(and this may or may not be the case), Naruto during the Pain invasion, without his reserve clones was, "bad at senjutsu" since he'd fit the description Minato was talking about.

Normally when people admit to not being good at something then that does'nt mean they are actually good at it.Minato is terrible at senjutsu in the same as Jiraiya yet you don't see people arguing he's a master at using senjutsu such as Naruto.

I would call Minato a Pseudo Perfect SM user because while he had shown the sighs of being one he clearly does'nt have the skill.

 

[Murasame]

-He doesn't need knowledge. If he can sense Bijuu chakra being transmitted from the Mazo to the Jins bodies; it'll be ridiculously simple to put two and two together, and as Minato is a sensor (Naruto needed SM at the time) replicating this feat isn't hard at all.

-Naruto had help from B, but Naruto isn't Minato.

Can Naruto redirect every projectile the Bijuu fire at him?

No, but Minato can via S/T Barrier.

Can Naruto teleport via Hiraishin?

No, but Minato can. In fact, the only pinch Naruto was ever in while engaging the bijuu was when he was about to get run over by Sanbi's rollout attack. Something Minato can easily evade via Hiraishin. Everything else is only a matter of ripping the rods out.


Also, where is this 7 Bijuu stuff coming from? Obito only has 6 Edo Jins. When OP said he has 7 Bijuu, it was obviously referring to the Bijuu in the Mazo. Does that mean they are usable in battle? Nope. Unless he magically pulled a Jin for Shukaku out his arse, its 6 Bijuu vs BM Minato.

Oh but for that to happen he has to change into sensor type [

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] Why would he do that when using BM which already has a form of sensing.. with no knowledge I don't see why Minato would switch to this if he doesn't need to use it for since the enemies are in front of him they're not hiding from him or anything.. and especially for a reason he doesn't know about. He used it for something that was going on somewhere else (naruto getting kurama extracted). He could've used it against BZ Obito since he ran out BM/KCM form but didn't so why would he when in BM? Naruto and the others despite knowing about the rods didn't even use sensing.. Kakashi who is analytical like Minato could've told Naruto to use SM but didn't. Them being pressured could've been a reason as well and Minato has no one to help him. So again I just don't see it unless you can really show me how.. then I will change my mind on who wins.

I agree Naruto isn't Minato but seriously Naruto in BM at most can hold off 3-4 bijuu... I don't see how having FTG would automatically give Minato the chance to beat 7 bijuu.. FTG will only prolong the battle and make him tougher to kill than Naruto. Since we have pretty much all the bijuu here the landscape will definitely get changed as it did in the manga so the kunai spread out or whatever will get destroyed.

I'm not too knowledgeable on Minato but how can he redirect mutliple attacks coming from different directions? It's not like they're all going to throw attacks in the same direction just so minato can redirect it Lol In fact they can just shoot tbb's close to him and let the explosion hurt him.. the kunai set around the area get destroyed by it lessening Minato's chances to teleport with Hirashin. Over time Minato won't be able to teleport anymoe as the battlefield is destroyed along with kunai then he gets overwhelmed. Also nothing suggest that each of the bijuu can't use continuous bijuu dama as well even if minato uses kcm clones to try and redirect multiple attacks coming from different directions there would be to much and the explosions would destroy kunais on the ground

As for the Bijuu what you say is right but if the OP made him have 7 bijuu then who are we to argue against his conditions? Even as much it sounds like BS he has 7 bijuu usable in this battle. Anyways I don't really want to argue this topic on who wins much anymore as I've said so I will reply to other things on here other than this maybe.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

If he's not a perfect sage, how do you explain the lack of toad features and the markings around his eyes. And pls show me the scan where Minato uses the word "sucks". Because from my understanding, compared to Naruto he's not as good (can't maintain it as long), doesn't mean he's terrible at it because he wouldn't have gotten this far in senjutsu if he "sucked".

Minato clearly said he can't gather senjutsu energy quick enough nor can he maintain SM,those two points make me believe he has no proficiency at using senjutsu.Therefore Minato is a Perfect Sage in name only.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Minato clearly said he can't gather senjutsu energy quick enough nor can he maintain SM,those two points make me believe he has no proficiency at using senjutsu.Therefore Minato is a Perfect Sage in name only.

Only one problem, The panel that we first see Minato activate sage mode, we see motion lines. In addition to those motion lines, we see the SHH SHH effects representing the sage marks appearing below his eyes (while he was moving!). Which means that while Minato was moving, he somehow was able to gather senjutsu -_- I swear to you I am not making this up. We also see that he threw a kunai before the sage marks appeared, this had to have been before Gaara put up the sand wall, otherwise the kunai wouldn't have passed. So it seems pretty clear that Minato activated sage mode in the time it took Gaara to construct that sand wall.

You may not believe this but I theorize that you can gather small amounts of senjutsu and enter it faster but at the cost of sage mode duration. But the longer you gather senjutsu, the longer you stay in sage mode and the more jutsu you can use before it runs out - this is the part I think Minato "sucks" at.

And I sincerely doubt Minato would become a perfect but not be able to use it for at least a couple minutes, even Naruto's first time lasted a while. And even with practice, naruto's limit was 5 minutes.

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh but for that to happen he has to change into sensor type [

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] Why would he do that when using BM which already has a form of sensing.. with no knowledge I don't see why Minato would switch to this if he doesn't need to use it for since the enemies are in front of him they're not hiding from him or anything.. and especially for a reason he doesn't know about. So again I just don't see it unless you can really show me how.. then I will change my mind on who wins.

BM already gives the ability to sense chakra regardless of Minato's base abilities. So whether he switches to "Sensor Type" is completely irrelevant as being in BM alone lets him sense.

I agree Naruto isn't Minato but seriously Naruto in BM at most can hold off 3-4 bijuu... I don't see how having FTG would automatically give Minato the chance to beat 7 bijuu.. FTG will only prolong the battle and make him tougher to kill than Naruto. Since we have pretty much all the bijuu here the landscape will definitely get changed as it did in the manga so the kunai spread out or whatever will get destroyed.

lol, no, it won't. Hiraishin pretty much removes the reason why Naruto almost got beat by the Bijuu.

-He almost got pummeled.

-Hiraishin would have let him escape.

What do the Bijuu do when Minato charges up his Super Bijuu Dama? They can overpower it with their own since Minato's is only equal to 5 Bijuu and there are six here, but S/T Barrier would suck in the opposing Bijuu Dama leaving the Bijuu to be hit and obliterated by Minato's own Bijuu Dama. The Rods get destroyed as well, rendering them useless.

The landscape they fought on never got destroyed.

-Naruto smacked away their smaller Bijuu Dama and redirected their larger one. Minato can do both as well.

-Their Ninjutsu attacks aren't going to obliterate the landscape and destroy his Kunai.

Once he grabs onto their chakra rods, its over.

If they try the Super Bijuu Dama route like they did on Naruto, it gets sucked in and either redirected, or Minato sucks it in and counters with his own. Either way the rods go bye bye along with the Bijuu.

I'm not too knowledgeable on Minato but how can he redirect mutliple attacks coming from different directions? It's not like they're all going to throw attacks in the same direction just so minato can redirect it Lol In fact they can just shoot tbb's close to him and let the explosion hurt him.. the kunai set around the area get destroyed by it lessening Minato's chances to teleport with Hirashin. Over time Minato won't be able to teleport anymoe as the battlefield is destroyed along with kunai then he gets overwhelmed.

I'm basing this off their fight with Naruto in the manga.

-No one ever said they would throw attacks in the same direction.

-Firing Bijuu Dama close to him and only having the explosion hurt him isn't going to do anything.

1. Kurama Cloak's tails can take Juubidama and protect the user completely, Bijuu Dama from these guys aren't going to do anything significant at all. They'd only be hurting themselves since their durability is poor compared to Minato's own.

2. If they use Bijuu Dama individually, he can smack them away like Naruto did in canon, so they won't be destroying any of his Kunai. Not to mention he can just spread more Kunai.

As for the Bijuu what you say is right but if the OP made him have 7 bijuu then who are we to argue against his conditions? Even as much it sounds like BS he has 7 bijuu usable in this battle. Anyways I don't really want to argue this topic much anymore.

Except OP never said that Obito had 7 Bijuu available to him battle. He only stated he had 7 Bijuu, which is true since he has 7 Bijuu in the Mazo. Doesn't mean that he can use them all.

@bold: Fine by me.

 

[Murasame]

Maybe later I will think of replying KG Lol atm I'm tired of replying so I will probably do so later.

 

[KidGamer65]

Maybe later I will think of replying KG Lol atm I'm tired of replying so I will probably do so later.

Alright. Do whatever you want to do. I don't really mind either way.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

As Minato can teleport, and can extend his Hiraishin to his chakra manifestation (in this case, chakra arms), he should have zero problems removing the rods. This is supplemented by sensing. Taking out Obito shouldn't be a problem, either. Essentially, Minato can do this [

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], and have a clone Hiraishin over there and remove the rods. Obito is dispatched as he was in Canon.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

1. Hachibi said naruto stop taking chakra

2. Obito stays suspended in the air, and firing black rods everywhere.

Minato can't dodge that, even BM naruto's speed couldn't dodge it because he needed bee to block it:

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3. Minato never used ftg in BM

4. Minato can't take on 7 bijuus, that's just ridiculous.

5. You soloed nobody, you're just making a complete fool of yourself.

1.No, this is what he said.

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He said "at some point." Meaning that, initially, he was.

2. You're post is incorrect in 4 ways. First, you can't use Naruto's BM speed to gauge Minato's BM speed.

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second, just because Naruto didn't dodge it doesn't mean he couldn't. Naruto casually caught 1 of those casually. By this logic, Madara's so slow he couldn't dodge Tsunade with 3.5 in speed from a long distance.

Spoiler

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Third, you're disregarding space time barrier, Minato doesn't even need to dodge.

Fourth, you're making the assumption that Obito can simultaneously control all the beasts and fight simultaneously. In reality, he never fought when he got 5 of them out, which going with this statement, indicates that he can't because it's too draining.

Spoiler

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3. This by no means, means he can't. This is a desperate assumption. First of all, the chakra itself is not a hindrance for teleportation since Minato has casually used FTG while in KCM. Size is no problem either since he teleported Gamakichi, who's the size of half Kurama with no visible effort.

Spoiler

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There has been no statement in the manga that Minato cannot teleport in BM, nor is there a any logical reason given to think that he can't. You're fabricating restrictions because you know I'm making a better case.

4. With brute force? no. With strategy that puts advantages in his favor? Yes. But Minato can easily bombard them with TBBs and redirect his enemies TBBs back at them for a ranged slaughter. You're thinking in terms of numbers and power win everything, and that every fight is direct, but that's obviously not what's gonna happen with Minato.

5. Actually, I did. The fact that you're forced to rely on fabricated weaknesses on Minato's abilities shows that I'm clearly putting up a better case than you. Also, you blindly relying on numbers shows that you have no leg to stand on.

[QUOTE=Ababeel;14630484]- did I say that you said that? No. I was talking about Naruto himself, not Minato. Zzz
- Lol, tell me more about it, what does 8tails mean?

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"Does he intend to counter-balance it with the same power"

- Very well, let's stop debating then. I think it's better for both of us.

Uh, no he didn't even you know this:

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[/QUOTE]


Uh, no, they were equal in power.

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The TBBs are the exact same size. On top of that, if Naruto's were weaker, then the biju's force would overcome it, and the opposite result would happen and it'd hit the ground.

I don't even think BSM can and I'm a Naruto fan not a fanboy like these guys. Naruto in BM was about to get overwhelmed by the bijuu until Bee stepped in and held two off so how is Minato who has equal fire power about to stand up to 7 bijuu and then the gedo mazo? Thats just plain fanboyism even if he has FTG or whatever.

Actually, you're not thinking hard enough. Think about it in these terms. Could 7 shadow clones of Naruto beat SM Naruto just because they outnumber him? Of course not. BSM puts Naruto leagues above even 7 biju.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Wait, who said Minato can't teleport in BM

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Wait, who said Minato can't teleport in BM

VarriaBossX. He really doesn't want to loose, so he's resorting to imaginary weaknesses.

 

[VongolaX]

1.No, this is what he said.

Spoiler

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He said "at some point." Meaning that, initially, he was.

2. You're post is incorrect in 4 ways. First, you can't use Naruto's BM speed to gauge Minato's BM speed.

Spoiler

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second, just because Naruto didn't dodge it doesn't mean he couldn't. Naruto casually caught 1 of those casually. By this logic, Madara's so slow he couldn't dodge Tsunade with 3.5 in speed from a long distance.

Spoiler

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Third, you're disregarding space time barrier, Minato doesn't even need to dodge.

Fourth, you're making the assumption that Obito can simultaneously control all the beasts and fight simultaneously. In reality, he never fought when he got 5 of them out, which going with this statement, indicates that he can't because it's too draining.

Spoiler

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3. This by no means, means he can't. This is a desperate assumption. First of all, the chakra itself is not a hindrance for teleportation since Minato has casually used FTG while in KCM. Size is no problem either since he teleported Gamakichi, who's the size of half Kurama with no visible effort.

Spoiler

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There has been no statement in the manga that Minato cannot teleport in BM, nor is there a any logical reason given to think that he can't. You're fabricating restrictions because you know I'm making a better case.

4. With brute force? no. With strategy that puts advantages in his favor? Yes. But Minato can easily bombard them with TBBs and redirect his enemies TBBs back at them for a ranged slaughter. You're thinking in terms of numbers and power win everything, and that every fight is direct, but that's obviously not what's gonna happen with Minato.

5. Actually, I did. The fact that you're forced to rely on fabricated weaknesses on Minato's abilities shows that I'm clearly putting up a better case than you. Also, you blindly relying on numbers shows that you have no leg to stand on.




Uh, no he didn't even you know this:

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Uh, no, they were equal in power.

Spoiler

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The TBBs are the exact same size. On top of that, if Naruto's were weaker, then the biju's force would overcome it, and the opposite result would happen and it'd hit the ground.




Actually, you're not thinking hard enough. Think about it in these terms. Could 7 shadow clones of Naruto beat SM Naruto just because they outnumber him? Of course not. BSM puts Naruto leagues above even 7 biju.[/QUOTE]

1. What point are you trying to make?

Hacibi suggested that he stopped taking chakra from Naruto, which proves my point.

2. Comparing kcm naruto so speed Bm naruto's speed?

What an amateur post:

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It requires hefty amount of chakra because he was controlling Gedo too, regardless it didn't faze Obito because he choose to use the six bodies justus like this:

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So kakakashi's assumptions<<<<<Obito's reason why...


3. Gosh the bullsh*t, kcm is a different state then BM...

BM can't preform seals, they're in beast transformation.

Even this proves it:

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You making up petty fan-fiction pic is sad, especially the fact that Obito who is uchiha/senju was taught these techniques:

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Mening shrina tensei, ct, and all the six path justus including omyoudon, but of course you wouldn't believe it until you see him using it.

So, unless I see BM Minato using FTG, your retort is invalid... :|

4. Getting rid of this FTG hypothetical once and for all...

All of ftg kunai and markings get blown out by this:

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You honestly need to try better then this...

 

[VongolaX]

VarriaBossX. He really doesn't want to loose, so he's resorting to imaginary weaknesses.

You're pathetic, since when does bijuu preform seals :|