[Discussion] I don't agree with some people out there

[Mr Hiru]

...that is telling that Naruto knows "how to use Rinnegan techniques", or that he can awake the "Rinnegan".

I agree that he knows about some of the techniques of the Rinnegan that exists out there, and he also knows how is the effect of these techniques, but he doesn't have ANY (and I repeat, HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY) experience using Doujutsu, so even if he knows the effects, he doesn't have knowledge on the cause for each effect, and he doesn't know how to control this kind of resource.

The manifestation of the eyes of the Sage were inherited by the Elder Son's Branch, and the mechanism behind the awakening (and henceforth, the use of these eyes) is the brain. Sasuke has this bloodline, and thus he was able to unlock new levels of his Sharingan until he got his MS. Moreover, under my POV, having the chakra of each Bijuu couldn't just let him awake the Rinnegan because Naruto doesn't have the physical means for this purpose (he doesn't have a brain that sprouts special chakra, Naruto doesn't belong to the Elder Son's bloodline, at least we don't have proof of that).

...we only have seen pictures of him related to the Sage, he had the big panel of a silhouette of a guy with a pair of Rinnegans... but was this foreshadow of him awakening the Rinnegan, or foreshadow of him surpassing the Sage, befriending Bijuu? All I know is that this panel was the Juubi's POV.

Let the discussion being.

 

[Snape Uchiha]

I agree. Naruto's fighting style doesn't fit with Dojutsu.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I agree. Naruto's fighting style doesn't fit with Dojutsu.

Thanks for your support. Although this thread doesn't touch how Naruto could/couldn't use the doujutsu in his fighting style, I think this Doujutsu doesn't fit with any of the main character's fighting style.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Hold on, you believe that the sage was born with the rinnegan,right?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Hold on, you believe that the sage was born with the rinnegan,right?

I think that he was born with the potential to awake it, just like the Uchiha Clan members are born with normal eyes that could evolve.

 

[yuvet]

Naruto is not meant to have Rinnegan, it's been clearly said that he's a descendent of the younger son of the Rikudou Sennin. Besides gaining the Rinnegan is the final step of all Doujutsu (for Uchihas), and Naruto hasn't show any ocular power ever..so it would be lame if he would get that!

 

[Mari Makinami]

While I agree that Rinnegan doesnt fit to Naruto at all, but I have to say that knowing Kishimoto's deep love for asspulls it is indeed very possible that he's gonna get it. Again, not -logical- but -possible-. And in this case he definitely -will- know how to use it, just because - for the same reason Madara can use susanoo w/o eyes, Kakashi can spam Kamui like he's the second Obito, etc, etc, etc.

 

[damon hunt]

naruto will have the body sasuke will have the eyes simple as that naruto wont have the sage's body and the sage's body therefore outmatching sasuke in every aspect which wont happen sasuke will have the best dojutsu its his specialty and naruto will have the sages body thus having all the chakra from every tailed beast. that way both of them working together sages eyes + sages body will beat the so called sage himself (madara)

 

[Mr Hiru]

Naruto is not meant to have Rinnegan, it's been clearly said that he's a descendent of the younger son of the Rikudou Sennin. Besides gaining the Rinnegan is the final step of all Doujutsu (for Uchihas), and Naruto hasn't show any ocular power ever..so it would be lame if he would get that!

I concur. The whole concept of balance tells that the Yin of the Eyes of the Sage were strongly manifested in the Elder Son's branch as Powerful Eyes, while the Yang of the Eyes of the Sage were just common eyes that were manifested in the Younger Son's branch.

While I agree that Rinnegan doesnt fit to Naruto at all, but I have to say that knowing Kishimoto's deep love for asspulls it is indeed very possible that he's gonna get it. Again, not -logical- but -possible-. And in this case he definitely -will- know how to use it, just because - for the same reason Madara can use susanoo w/o eyes, Kakashi can spam Kamui like he's the second Obito, etc, etc, etc.

There is something that I have learned from the moment that I joined these forums... This is that there are two kind of bad persons related to manga: Bad writters, and bad readers. Kishimoto is just regular, but he doesn't have love for asspulls, that's something I can ensure you. Every event in the manga has been hinted somehow, there is always something justifying each move Kishimoto does.

For instance:

Madara's Susano'o: Who tolds you he needs the eyes to use that Susano'o, if he already sprouts the chakra from his brain? Even Itachi had the Susano'o active when his MS was inactive.

Kakashi's Kamui: Who tolds you that Kakashi didn't have drawbacks when using Kamui? In fact, he got to the hospital a lot of times, and now in the war Kakashi had the Yang Kyuubi's chakra that reduced the drawbacks of the use of his Doujutsu (yeah, because Yang = Lifeforce, exactly as Danzou's use of Shisui's abilities, or Izanagi, thanks to Senju DNA).

So, foreshadows are everywhere, but these foreshadows are always based on logic to some extent.

But the case of Naruto goes far beyond common sense. If the Sage had the potential to awake the Rinnegan, it is because he beared the fruit's power from birth. Naruto doesn't have this adventage.

 

[take it easy]

sage training//sage knowledge. nuff said

 

[Mr Hiru]

sage training//sage knowledge. nuff said

I think Naruto is in middle of war. He doesn't have time for that XD

 

[take it easy]

I think Naruto is in middle of war. He doesn't have time for that XD

why not? for example naruto learn chakra transfer tech in 5 chapters.

 

[Mr Hiru]

why not? for example naruto learn chakra transfer tech in 5 chapters.

He has been doing that from the moment that Kurama did it with Kakashi, and also he knows the mechanics behind because he has been a jinchuuriki all his life.

Rinnegan is a completely different case.

Anyways, Naruto can't awake it by logic because he doesn't have a brain that sprouts special chakra. Maybe you can find the hint in the manga that suggests that Naruto has that kind of property in his brain?

 

[Uchiha Samater]

Something came to me when i was re-reading Madara battling with no eyes.

Many people argued that Madara using Susaanoo with no eyes was unexplainable and thus bad writing.

I disagreed, and in a thread argued that it was due to Madara attaining a power close to the sage that he was able to access and manifest Doujutsu without his eyes.

Now,

In Naruto's case, i believe he will attain if not the Rinnegan, definitely some sort of ''upgrade'' if you will regarding his eyes.

In terms of being able to use doujutsu, i think it will be more so of an ability of manifestation of whatever he wants to inflict on who he is battling.

I.e. Throw someone in Genjutsu just be pointing, [Itachi style], Or just be Imagining the Jutsu he has witnessed, etc Chibaku Tensei.

I don;t think that is far from what the sage was capable of due his ying and yang abilities.


So i agree Naruto won't know any jutsu, but he will be able to perform them, lol i know it sounds crazy reading it back, but what do you think

 

[valandil988]

Everyone seems to think the Rinnegan is a purely dojutsu based bloodline. This is blatantly untrue. Its a manifestation of two elements. Yin and Yang. Ergo in truth its a Body and Eye technique. So no its not just the final evolution of the Uchiha, its the final evolution of BOTH Senju and Uchiha.

I agree that Naruto would need training or perhaps some external force guiding him to make such a power up useful. I made a thread recently discussing this problem.


--------------------------------
Alternatives:

So lets explore the alternative. If not the Rinnegan what? Another jinchuriki bath robe? Wow fun yahoo and its another evolution along Naruto OWN path of yang development.

Sasuke however seems in line to gain a sage mode, something that has until now been the purview of Naruto's own Yang development line. So I suppose Sasuke is another story entirely he can have Naruto's toys as well because he is "Uchiha". Yet the idea of Naruto even awakening a dojutsu for a limited time is impossible?

Stop creating double standards for the main characters. If people want to play it by Yin and Yang. Sasuke should stick to eye techs, and Naruto should stick to body techs. But that doesn't look like it will happen.

 

[Naruto99Uzumaki]

if kakashi can wield a sharingan and danzo can control 10 sharingan , then naruto takes this with ease, naruto get the trick to use and learn something fastern than anyone, cause he dont give up

 

[Shinato]

if kakashi and danzo can do it, then naruto takes this with ease, naruto get the trick to use and learn something fastern than anyone, cause he dont give up

It took both Kakashi and Danzo years to reach the level they did, heck it takes years for an Uchiha. Naruto wouldn't be able to even use it in the war and it would only become an hindrance for him.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Something came to me when i was re-reading Madara battling with no eyes.

Many people argued that Madara using Susaanoo with no eyes was unexplainable and thus bad writing.

I disagreed, and in a thread argued that it was due to Madara attaining a power close to the sage that he was able to access and manifest Doujutsu without his eyes.

Now,

In Naruto's case, i believe he will attain if not the Rinnegan, definitely some sort of ''upgrade'' if you will regarding his eyes.

In terms of being able to use doujutsu, i think it will be more so of an ability of manifestation of whatever he wants to inflict on who he is battling.

I.e. Throw someone in Genjutsu just be pointing, [Itachi style], Or just be Imagining the Jutsu he has witnessed, etc Chibaku Tensei.

I don;t think that is far from what the sage was capable of due his ying and yang abilities.


So i agree Naruto won't know any jutsu, but he will be able to perform them, lol i know it sounds crazy reading it back, but what do you think

As I said earlier, Kishimoto only acts based on logic (sometimes he stretches his logic to reach some conclusions, but he doesn't act without logic).

This said, I agree that Naruto will definitely have some upgrade. But my criticism is that:

- He lacks the DNA to awake a Doujutsu, so he won't awake that doujutsu (until proven wrong, of course).
- He lacks the knowledge/experience to perform Doujutsu techniques (for obvious reasons).
- He didn't have potential to awake a Doujutsu from birth (Sasuke did; Hagoromo did if not born with Rinnegan).

He knows the effects techniques, but there is a huge difference between knowing the techniques and knowing the mechanics to perform the techniques.

Everyone seems to think the Rinnegan is a purely dojutsu based bloodline. This is blatantly untrue. Its a manifestation of two elements. Yin and Yang. Ergo in truth its a Body and Eye technique. So no its not just the final evolution of the Uchiha, its the final evolution of BOTH Senju and Uchiha.

I agree that Naruto would need training or perhaps some external force guiding him to make such a power up useful. I made a thread recently discussing this problem.


--------------------------------
Alternatives:

So lets explore the alternative. If not the Rinnegan what? Another jinchuriki bath robe? Wow fun yahoo and its another evolution along Naruto OWN path of yang development.

Sasuke however seems in line to gain a sage mode, something that has until now been the purview of Naruto's own Yang development line. So I suppose Sasuke is another story entirely he can have Naruto's toys as well because he is "Uchiha". Yet the idea of Naruto even awakening a dojutsu for a limited time is impossible?

Stop creating double standards for the main characters. If people want to play it by Yin and Yang. Sasuke should stick to eye techs, and Naruto should stick to body techs. But that doesn't look like it will happen.

I have to say, I wanted Naruto to be totally equal to Sasuke. But when you think about it, Sasuke wields Hagoromo's DNA in his blood, but Naruto doesn't. The Yin part of Rinnegan was inherited by the Elder Son, and as we are talking about inheritance, this is related not only to Yin, but to genetics as well, and the Uchiha Clan existence is enough proof for this statement.

I also mentioned that the Yang of the Eyes of the Sage turned into common eyes, and with the flow of time these common eyes became the eyes of the Senju Clan. So you're not saying anything new, we agree to this extent.

So, answering your first questions... Naruto is someone that handles chakra, in huge proportions, so if he has an upgrade, it has to be related to chakra, not to DNA, and Rinnegan is something related to DNA, Madara is the proof, arguing about this fact at this point would be futile.

Henceforth, you're right about your last sentence: Naruto and Sasuke can't be taken as Yin and Yang, even if (I) wanted them being equal... because their physical properties are totally different. The only possible Yin and Yang for them (in this context) is their philosophy.

This told, it is most likely that Naruto has an upgrade related to body or to chakra, rather than eyes (which properties belongs to the Elder Son bloodline).

Look at chapter 462, and you'll notice that chakra and physical properties are very separated. <<The Elder Son inherited his eyes and his powerful chakra>>

So, telling that the Rinnegan is the final manifestation of the Senju and the Uchiha, you only hold the half of the truth. You should say that the Rinnegan is the final manifestation of "The Eyes of the Senju and the Eyes of the Uchiha". You can't discard the powerful body inherited by the Younger Son, and the common body that was inherited by the Elder Son. These also are Yin and Yang of the Sage's Body.

...think about it. Why didn't Obito turn his MS into Rinnegan when becoming the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki? I really don't see Naruto awakening the Rinnegan if someone who met even more requirements could not.

 

[adeshina365]

Fully agreed.

I think those that think that Naruto will awaken the Rinnegan are going to be disappointed. He doesn't need to have the exact same powers of the sage to be his "successor".

The way I see it, Naruto is the successor of the Sage's ideals and teachings.

I see Naruto's "Juubi mode" as being a souped-up Bijuu mode.

 

[Shinato]

Fully agreed.

I think those that think that Naruto will awaken the Rinnegan are going to be disappointed. He doesn't need to have the exact same powers of the sage to be his "successor".

The way I see it, Naruto is the successor of the Sage's ideals and teachings.

They way I see it, he's the equalization of the Juubi . Sasuke being the equalization of the Sage. Both fight against the person who is alike the Sage himself, namely Madara Uchiha. Metaphorically it would be like the Sage and the Juubi battling together against a common enemy, solving the circle of hatred that Hagoromo and his mother started.