DSM Kabuto VS EMS Sasuke

[WolfHaley]

Not seeing the relevance of this post, at all. Both of these instances depicts Madara fighting opponents far stronger than Kabuto. He didn't even use PS against the Bijuu.

I was referring to how Sasuke failed to use them, kiddie gamer 69 @_@

 

[KidGamer65]

After that, it becomes a stomp match up right

Yes, it becomes a stomp match up. PS on its own is already too much for Kabuto to handle let alone Enton Kagutsuchi on the level of PS.

I was referring to how Sasuke failed to use them, kiddie gamer 69 @_@

lmao, I see......My point still stands though. Those were against foes far stronger than Kabuto. He didn't even get time to use it.

 

[HadouKage]

What feats does it need.

^This


Sussano can't block sound.


OT: I don't know Kabuto has intel on Sasuke, I'll go with Kabuto

 

[KidGamer65]

^This


Sussano can't block sound.


OT: I don't know Kabuto has intel on Sasuke, I'll go with Kabuto

Temari blocked Sound Genjutsu by swinging her fan and blowing the sound waves back. PS Sword Slash will give the same results.

 

[Haizaki]

Temari blocked Sound Genjutsu by swinging her fan and blowing the sound waves back. PS Sword Slash will give the same results.

Actually, this is a good point to be honest

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Yes, it becomes a stomp match up. PS on its own is already too much for Kabuto to handle

1.) Not really, as it still has flaws hitting smaller targets accurately.

2.) Depending Location can help Kabuto via Muki Tensei.

3.) Manda II can buy off time facing it (which you aren't making an accurate scaling from). While Kabuto can use his options of using techniques that can bypass Susanoo.

 

[TheSages456]

sasuke destroys kabuto if he has killing intent.

sasuke can fire enton from his hands that have the same AOE as a rasenshuriken(bottom right panel).

Spoiler

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if kabuto uses rebirth, his body will spawn inside a sea of flames.

 

[KidGamer65]

1.) Not really, as it still has flaws hitting smaller targets accurately.

No, it doesn't. It swung its blade once and Hashirama managed to evade, once. Not to mention someone who can keep pace with a man who can blitz SM Naruto is far faster than Kabuto by feats. So irrelevant point.

2.) Depending Location can help Kabuto via Muki Tensei.

Muki Tensei is useless here.

-Nothing he animates will be strong enough to restrain Susanoo.

-Nothing he animates will be strong enough to destroy it.

3.) Manda II can buy off time facing it (which you aren't making an accurate scaling from). While Kabuto can use his options of using techniques that can bypass Susanoo.

PS bisects Manda II with little effort, regardless of its size. It doesn't have the feats to even stand against PS.

sasuke destroys kabuto if he has killing intent.

sasuke can fire enton from his hands that have the same AOE as a rasenshuriken(bottom right panel).

Spoiler

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if kabuto uses rebirth, his body will spawn inside a sea of flames.

Then there is this. Sasuke even stands a good chance of winning without PS.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No, it doesn't. It swung its blade once and Hashirama managed to evade, once.

It swung its blade multiple of times. The panel in the middle shows off screen explosive traveling[

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], and Hashirama running away. Which then Madara resulted in using TBB with the Sussanoo Sword

It was confirmed twice on how he needs to swing his blade against smaller opponents, the shock wave is a bonus.[

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] and [

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][

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].

The Viz even stated that Madara use PS on the Gokages again[

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]<--Not Viz btw (but translation is a little closer here). And whats the results in their conditions?[

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]

Not to mention someone who can keep pace with a man who can blitz SM Naruto is far faster than Kabuto by feats. So irrelevant point.

I don't see how Madara blitz SM have to do with PS either. irrelevant point?

-Nothing he animates will be strong enough to restrain Susanoo.

Like I said location advantage. Lets say in a Gokage vs Edo Madara. Kabuto can animate the Sand to sink him in.

-Nothing he animates will be strong enough to destroy it.

Nothing in Kabuto's arsenal can destroy PS. Destroying isnt the only way of defeating it.

PS bisects Manda II with little effort, regardless of its size. It doesn't have the feats to even stand against PS.

1.It has more mobility feats then Sussanoo. And faster then PS. PS needs a compatible summoning to gain good mobility.

2.Manda II has far better senses then Madara using PS.

3. Kabuto can even buff Manda II if you personally dont believe his weight will be enough.

4. You don't need to be powerful to stop a sword swing, as long you stop the velocity of the weapon, swung.

Then there is this. Sasuke even stands a good chance of winning without PS.

Um right. I already know you don't believe Kabuto will be getting hit by Enton, when he already dodged one of Sasukes fastest jutsu. Not only that but Oral Rebirth is not even the only options.

He can also

1. Shed it off with his body fluid
2. Block its chakra with Kidomaru's body fluid.

So even then you can walk or jump out of it, if it even lands on him

 

[KidGamer65]

It swung its blade multiple of times. The panel in the middle shows off screen explosive traveling[

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], and Hashirama running away. Which then Madara resulted in using TBB with the Sussanoo Sword

Wrong. He swung it once resulting in that one dust cloud, and Hashirama ran.

It was confirmed twice on how he needs to swing his blade against smaller opponents, the shock wave is a bonus.[

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] and [

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][

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].

He'd still die regardless of how he swung the blade as Kabuto doesn't have the feats to evade something of that size and speed.

The Viz even stated that Madara use PS on the Gokages again[

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]<--Not Viz btw (but translation is a little closer here). And whats the results in their conditions?[

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]

Alright? Not seeing your point here.

I don't see how Madara blitz SM have to do with PS either. irrelevant point?

You said that it had trouble hitting smaller targets, but that's only cause Hashirama was able to evade once. He is faster than Kabuto, so using that as evidence is obviously flawed.

Like I said location advantage. Lets say in a Gokage vs Edo Madara. Kabuto can animate the Sand to sink him in.

He isn't going to sink a construct as big as PS before dying.

1.It has more mobility feats then Sussanoo. And faster then PS. PS needs a compatible summoning to gain good mobility.

-Slower than PS's movement is irrelevant, and it has no feats to show that its faster than its striking speed.

-Bold is irrelevant, it doesn't need mobility to kill Manda II.

2.Manda II has far better senses then Madara using PS.

Irrelevant. It still gets chopped in half. Its senses won't stop that.

3. Kabuto can even buff Manda II if you personally dont believe his weight will be enough.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

4. You don't need to be powerful to stop a sword swing, as long you stop the velocity of the weapon, swung.

You still need sufficient strength to do so.

Um right. I already know you don't believe Kabuto will be getting hit by Enton, when he already dodged one of Sasukes fastest jutsu. Not only that but Oral Rebirth is not even the only options.

Dodging an arrow isn't the same as dodging something that moves as fast as FRS (Slower than an arrow) but with an AoE much larger than that of an arrow.

He can also

1. Shed it off with his body fluid

If he's in a giant flame as big as that one, he isn't going to shed anything off, he'll just get burnt and killed.

2. Block its chakra with Kidomaru's body fluid.

Armor of Sticky Gold is only a temporary defense. So when it falls off, he dies. That's also assuming he gets time to use Souma no Jutsu and then use Kidomaru's abilities.

 

[Unorthodox]

standing
susanoo is more then enough

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Wrong. He swung it once resulting in that one dust cloud, and Hashirama ran.

There is no way that can happen judging by the scans.

1.[

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] This is the first swing from Madara. Hashirama blocks it[

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].
2.[

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]This is the second swing from Madara, to counter what Hashirama blocked.

3. The scan I provided, Hashirama took advantage of the area being trashed as platforms[

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] from its second slash (P.S. Which part 1 Kabuto was very skilled as using environment camo[

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]). This is all WHILE Hashirama decided to move closer to the shore. The middle panel shows Madara stating that he will not let him escape. The middle panel also provides a different location via Hashirama moving closer to the shore. There is no way the second slash will still be shown in a different location.

He'd still die regardless of how he swung the blade as Kabuto doesn't have the feats to evade something of that size and speed.

Whatever speed you think Kabuto lacks is still supported with his perceptual ability.

Alright? Not seeing your point here.

The Gokages, low stamina and chakra were still able to avoid being destroyed by the swing of PS slash, after witnessing Moukton spam with PS slash (via the results off screen)

You said that it had trouble hitting smaller targets, but that's only cause Hashirama was able to evade once. He is faster than Kabuto, so using that as evidence is obviously flawed.

Read above, overall

He isn't going to sink a construct as big as PS before dying.

Assuming he will dies before making another counter advantage.

-Slower than PS's movement is irrelevant, and it has no feats to show that its faster than its striking speed.

Maneuver underwater faster then any animal known to swim (moving on land is faster)[

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]
Snakes summons are commonly shown to out maneuver attack[

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][

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]

Whats PS speed feat with its swing?

Irrelevant. It still gets chopped in half. Its senses won't stop that.

Yes it will. Manda I was shown to detect Bunta swing and blocked it before it can harm him[

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]. Manda I was compatible with Bunta's size. Manda II being far over Manda I in senses and stronger, while also being compatible with PS in size (bigger though) will result the same fate.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

Kabuto can manipulate his snakes by welding hand signs[

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]
Kabuto will do the same to Manda II[

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]

You still need sufficient strength to do so.

Manda II as sufficient strength and can be buffed.

Dodging an arrow isn't the same as dodging something that moves as fast as FRS (Slower than an arrow) but with an AoE much larger than that of an arrow.

Do I even need to counter this part?

I dont even believe you were thinking straight with both claims as FRS being faster then arrow and Enton having an AoE larger then Arrow, when the AoE comes from igniting the opponent.

If he's in a giant flame as big as that one, he isn't going to shed anything off, he'll just get burnt and killed.

First off read the scans in context. Enton stared out as spheres darts. The size of the flame is only in side by its target that was ignited. This is how big the target was[

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Armor of Sticky Gold is only a temporary defense. So when it falls off, he dies. That's also assuming he gets time to use Souma no Jutsu and then use Kidomaru's abilities.

So what if its temporal, it is shed off, thus successfully shedding of the flames.... when it falls off the flames fall off.

Assuming what? That I should be arguing of Kabuto using both Sage Art first in a open area. Have a conversation, get an answer, then begin to to active the Sound 5 jutsus, like he did canonically?

standing
susanoo is more then enough

How so?

 

[MasqueradeNX]

Kabuto wins. Kabuto's whole kit counters sasuke.

 

[slimreaper]

There is no way that can happen judging by the scans.

1.[

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] This is the first swing from Madara. Hashirama blocks it[

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].
2.[

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]This is the second swing from Madara, to counter what Hashirama blocked.

3. The scan I provided, Hashirama took advantage of the area being trashed as platforms[

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] from its second slash (P.S. Which part 1 Kabuto was very skilled as using environment camo[

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]). This is all WHILE Hashirama decided to move closer to the shore. The middle panel shows Madara stating that he will not let him escape. The middle panel also provides a different location via Hashirama moving closer to the shore. There is no way the second slash will still be shown in a different location.



Whatever speed you think Kabuto lacks is still supported with his perceptual ability.




The Gokages, low stamina and chakra were still able to avoid being destroyed by the swing of PS slash, after witnessing Moukton spam with PS slash (via the results off screen)



Read above, overall



Assuming he will dies before making another counter advantage.



Maneuver underwater faster then any animal known to swim (moving on land is faster)[

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]
Snakes summons are commonly shown to out maneuver attack[

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][

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]

Whats PS speed feat with its swing?





Yes it will. Manda I was shown to detect Bunta swing and blocked it before it can harm him[

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]. Manda I was compatible with Bunta's size. Manda II being far over Manda I in senses and stronger, while also being compatible with PS in size (bigger though) will result the same fate.




Kabuto can manipulate his snakes by welding hand signs[

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]
Kabuto will do the same to Manda II[

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]



Manda II as sufficient strength and can be buffed.



Do I even need to counter this part?

I dont even believe you were thinking straight with both claims as FRS being faster then arrow and Enton having an AoE larger then Arrow, when the AoE comes from igniting the opponent.




First off read the scans in context. Enton stared out as spheres darts. The size of the flame is only in side by its target that was ignited. This is how big the target was[

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]



So what if its temporal, it is shed off, thus successfully shedding of the flames.... when it falls off the flames fall off.

Assuming what? That I should be arguing of Kabuto using both Sage Art first in a open area. Have a conversation, get an answer, then begin to to active the Sound 5 jutsus, like he did canonically?



How so?

so you are comparing bunta's strength to PS? scans showing bunta slicing mountains with just a shock wave?

this fight is ended with a bijuu sized amaterasu

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1. kabuto has no feats to suggest he can dodge something of this size
2. he can't shed a flame of this magnitude.
3. this would make one legendary kirin if he did escape

 

[Brother Numpsay]

so you are comparing bunta's strength to PS? scans showing bunta slicing mountains with just a shock wave?

this fight is ended with a bijuu sized amaterasu

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1. kabuto has no feats to suggest he can dodge something of this size
2. he can't shed a flame of this magnitude.
3. this would make one legendary kirin if he did escape

1. You obviously not read, or taking it out of context. I stated Manda I is compatible to Bunta, which enable him to block the swing of Bunta weapon. Manda II is compatible to PS size, which enbale him to be big enough to block the swing from the weapon.

2. Ammy lights by its line of sight. Meaning if its Buijuu/ summoning Size, the flames will go by what you just post. If its a human, then it will canonically be what was shown to the size of in the manga against Danzo and Ay/Samurai.

3. This confirms it and Itachi burning Sasuke's Fireball confirms this.

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuke wins with mid difficulty.

 

[jsss]

Kabuto wil won

 

[KidGamer65]

There is no way that can happen judging by the scans.

1.[

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] This is the first swing from Madara. Hashirama blocks it[

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].
2.[

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]This is the second swing from Madara, to counter what Hashirama blocked.

3. The scan I provided, Hashirama took advantage of the area being trashed as platforms[

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] from its second slash (P.S. Which part 1 Kabuto was very skilled as using environment camo[

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]). This is all WHILE Hashirama decided to move closer to the shore. The middle panel shows Madara stating that he will not let him escape. The middle panel also provides a different location via Hashirama moving closer to the shore. There is no way the second slash will still be shown in a different location.

The second slash you posted is irrelevant as it isn't even aimed to hit Hashirama in the first place. He didn't do anything to evade it because it wasn't coming for him. Hashirama ran from the third slash. Not the second one.

-PS swings its blade here.

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-After it has cut through his constructs and those Mountains, he starts running.

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-A panel or two later, the third slash occurs. Hence the large dust cloud.

Then he resorts to Bijuu Dama.

Whatever speed you think Kabuto lacks is still supported with his perceptual ability.

Uh, no, it isn't. Not unless you can prove it with feats.

The Gokages, low stamina and chakra were still able to avoid being destroyed by the swing of PS slash, after witnessing Moukton spam with PS slash (via the results off screen)

This is just speculation.

Read above, overall

Proves nothing.

Assuming he will dies before making another counter advantage.

He will as he can't evade a slash nor can he hinder Madara in the slightest.

Maneuver underwater faster then any animal known to swim (moving on land is faster)[

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]
Snakes summons are commonly shown to out maneuver attack[

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][

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]

The first point is speculation, and the rest don't let it evade PS slash.

Whats PS speed feat with its swing?

It doesn't even need speed feats. Manda's size makes it an easy target for the blade. He swings his blade and the shockwave bisects Manda II with little difficulty. Unless it has the speed feats to evade a shockwave that travels across a Mountain Range and then some in a split second. Which it doesn't.

Yes it will. Manda I was shown to detect Bunta swing and blocked it before it can harm him[

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]. Manda I was compatible with Bunta's size. Manda II being far over Manda I in senses and stronger, while also being compatible with PS in size (bigger though) will result the same fate.

Manda II isn't bigger than PS. Don't know where this nonsense came from. Regardless you have no strength feats to say it can block PS's attack. Bunta and Manda I are not evidence unless you can prove the jump in physical power from Bunta to PS and Manda I to Manda II is proportional, which you can't do.

You'd also have to prove that size was the only factor in blocking that, but of course that is false.

If Manda II tries this foolish strategy, it gets bisected.

Kabuto can manipulate his snakes by welding hand signs[

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]
Kabuto will do the same to Manda II[

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]

Those snakes are connected to his body. Manda II isn't. Nor is there any evidence that he can do this for all his snakes. So once again, all you have is shaky evidence. No point here.

Manda II as sufficient strength and can be buffed.

Feats disagree.

Do I even need to counter this part?

I dont even believe you were thinking straight with both claims as FRS being faster then arrow and Enton having an AoE larger then Arrow, when the AoE comes from igniting the opponent.

I don't think you were thinking straight when you read this post as I CLEARLY said FRS is slower than the arrow.



But I'm not going to bother with the rest. I'll focus on my main point.

 

[AGoodBoy]

By feats kabuto wins.

He dodges sasuke's attacks. His bests sasuke's elemental jutsu.

Worst of all, unlike itachi, sasuke was completely immobile during white rage. Without itachi, nothing stops kabuto from killing him during white rage.

In a cave kabuto most likely takes this. Outside a cave sasuke most likely does.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The second slash you posted is irrelevant as it isn't even aimed to hit Hashirama in the first place. He didn't do anything to evade it because it wasn't coming for him. Hashirama ran from the third slash. Not the second one.

-PS swings its blade here.

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-After it has cut through his constructs and those Mountains, he starts running.

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-A panel or two later, the third slash occurs. Hence the large dust cloud.

Then he resorts to Bijuu Dama.

So basically you are agreeing with me.. And your statement here

No, it doesn't. It swung its blade once and Hashirama managed to evade, once.

is false since Hashirama did encounter a third slash.

Uh, no, it isn't. Not unless you can prove it with feats.

What feats do you need, its the shockwave swung that travels faster then the actual sword swung.

1. Hashirama was able to wield a hand sign when the sword was swung already
2. Tsuade already tried to gather chakra, who also wield hand signs, when the sword was swung down at them. Some Gokages weren't ready to give up[

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]

This is just speculation.

Wheres the speculation?
Viz clarifies

Mei:"How's this possible?!"

Madara:"Don't you get it? Your ridiculously juvenile jutsu can't hold me."

Mei SFX: RRRK RRRK

Madara:"Now... The perfect Susano'o... Everyone who sees it dies... Or so they say.
I'm almost embarassed to have to do this again... I already used it once, but..."

2.) Everyone chakra and stamina was done at that point. (Except Tsunade). Ay couldn't even use Lightening Armor, which of course he can dodge with it.

3.) The ending results shows only Tsunade, being squashed Mokuton, while the others, she stated are separated from her location.[

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].

Nothing here is speculation. The only thing that will be speculation is how the fight went exactly. But I am not stating this. I am taking Madara's own words and the ending results that Kishimoto showed. Madara stated using PS again. PS feats must be applied here. Tsuande was smashed by Mokuton, therefore Mokuton was applied used.

Proves nothing.

Right....

He will as he can't evade a slash nor can he hinder Madara in the slightest.

Every character shown encountering it did.

The first point is speculation, and the rest don't let it evade PS slash.

How is that speculation? What land animal moves faster on water?

It doesn't even need speed feats. Manda's size makes it an easy target for the blade. He swings his blade and the shockwave bisects Manda II with little difficulty. Unless it has the speed feats to evade a shockwave that travels across a Mountain Range and then some in a split second. Which it doesn't.

Manda II size means nothing as Kabuto drug this being to counterpart/better then the original Manda. Far better senses will be detected and easily maneuver most of its body underground to avoid a lethal hit

Manda II isn't bigger than PS. Don't know where this nonsense came from.

Or maybe you don't understand how big Manda II is?

Turtle Island Spikes compare to humans[

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]
Turtle Island Spikes compare to Buijuu (study enough to hold the weight of Buijuu) [

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]
Turtle Island Spikes, roaming by Manda II, half of its body [

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]

What makes PS comparable to an island, that can hold multiple full Buijuu, by its scaling.

Regardless you have no strength feats to say it can block PS's attack. Bunta and Manda I are not evidence unless you can prove the jump in physical power from Bunta to PS and Manda I to Manda II is proportional, which you can't do.

You'd also have to prove that size was the only factor in blocking that, but of course that is false.

If Manda II tries this foolish strategy, it gets bisected.

Can you even prove Manda II is superior Manda I?

I dont see how can I change a bias opinion into a unbias opinion.

All of this comes with common sense. Moukton isn't able to produce shockwaves like PS can but it is very useful in blocking the the path. And I know you don't believe the jaws of wood dragon is more powerful then Manda II[

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].

ABC is can applied here reasonably.

Those snakes are connected to his body. Manda II isn't. Nor is there any evidence that he can do this for all his snakes. So once again, all you have is shaky evidence. No point here.

Here we go again.. Your doing this again. Once again THOSE snakes, called Hidden Snakes aren't being connected to the user body. They are able to unleash through their user body, explained by Kishimoto. They are not actually inside the users, waiting to be used.

With the summons specified beforehand, the procedure can be shortened by using blood on a summoning "contract seal" (結印, ketsuin), making it possible to use the technique immediately.

[

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].

Before I even have another argument of Kabuto being the "snakes"

Now you already stated you are only going by your personal interpretation with no evidence to back up the ability of Kabuto. Your interpretation from here hold no water with evidence to claim it is true.

Now lets look at the beginning of the fight.[

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]. Already your interpretation is flawed. Kabuto hides his face and had the snakes look at the brothers instead. In your case if the snakes are the same being as Kabuto, Genjutsu will still work on him. Then[

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]. Sasuke tells Itachi to watch out for those snakes. The context switches from Kabuto preventing getting hit from jutsu to Sasuke telling Itachi about the snakes, Kabuto is using to counter. Kabuto has no such feats to sense things through temperature and also sense of smell passing through his mouth, which Sasuke explains that the snakes can do. Sasuke questions the Snakes being bigger, something unoriginal to his knowledge. Then[

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]. Once Kabuto use the snakes to attack, Sasuke thought Kabuto was under the hood, which he ended up shocked that he wasn't. In your interpretation all of it should be Kabuto and no one should be surprise when capture Kabuto[

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].

Last point. When Kabuto was talking, no lip movement was involved from the snake[

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]. All you would actually read HISS sound effects.



Thats contradicting statement how they looking for Kabuto when they are holding Kabuto.



ALWAYS is a wrong statement, which I will get back up once again. The purpose of Hidden snakes comes in various purposes. Mainly Biting[

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] to constriction[

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] (Stated in Databook and scans I am linking).

Back to ALWAYS STAY and NEVER LEAVE. That is incorrect[

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>

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[/URL]].

I don't think you were thinking straight when you read this post as I CLEARLY said FRS is slower than the arrow.

You were right. But..

But I'm not going to bother with the rest. I'll focus on my main point.

As long you understood that his whole premise wasn't good to begin with