How would Naruto fare in the Kage encounter if he swapped with Sasuke???

[Valkyria]

Sage clones, Kage Bushins and smoke bombs are the key here for Naruto. SM is imo as least as fast, strong and probably more durable as Raikage with his lightning shroud up. He'd need enough Kage Bushins to deal with Darui and Shi whilst fighting the Raikage. Would the Raikage be as careless as his fight with Sasuke and present the opportunity of Rasenshuriken through tickery and at least touch him? I'd say yes and the Raikage wouldn't be able to tank the jutsu like Amaterasu so it'd be GG. Shi and Darui wouldn't be able to compete with the speed of Sage Naruto and be finished off afterwards. I believe that Naruto would be able to wrap things up before Gaara and Co. go to intercept them and head straight to the meeting. The rest I cannot be bothered speculating. I'll just say that Naruto would have obviously had more stamina to last this many high level battles and at the very least complete his objective of killing Danzou. Would he have eventually lost at the end like Sasuke? Most probably.

I feel like in every thread discussing Naruto's strength someone always tries to say Naruto "defeated" Pain. This NEVER happened. First of all you must take into the fact that Pain did not want to kill Naruto. That greatly alters the path of the battle. Then consider the fact that Pain had just laid waste to the ENTIRE village of Konoha. He killed multiple top shinobi including Kakashi, and he made Tsunade exert herself to the point of falling into a coma. On top of that, Pain had Naruto pinned down this his chakra bolt thing stuck through Naruto's hands. The battle at this point was OVER. It only continued because Hinata interfered and got Naruto to release his Kyuubi chakra. Then even after this Naruto was then imprisoned in a mini-moon which he broke out of thanks to 8 tails of Kyuubi power. In this case the word Kyuubi can be subbed out for "main char". Then if you actually pay attention to their meeting in Konan's paper tree, it is clear that Nagato has the ability to kill Naruto. It is only through Naruto's words that Nagato changes his heart and sacrifices himself to revive the fallen shinobi of Konoha.

Saying Naruto defeated Pain is like saying Sasuke defeated Itachi. It just never happened.

I know man. I keep saying this but people just look at the results and not at the circumstances. Keep telling 'em

 

[Magellan]

it would be another epic

 

[mbd8084]

I think that naruto would lose control and go nine tails then fulfill the role of the great destroyer and not the savior.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

I feel like in every thread discussing Naruto's strength someone always tries to say Naruto "defeated" Pain. This NEVER happened. First of all you must take into the fact that Pain did not want to kill Naruto. That greatly alters the path of the battle. Then consider the fact that Pain had just laid waste to the ENTIRE village of Konoha. He killed multiple top shinobi including Kakashi, and he made Tsunade exert herself to the point of falling into a coma. On top of that, Pain had Naruto pinned down this his chakra bolt thing stuck through Naruto's hands. The battle at this point was OVER. It only continued because Hinata interfered and got Naruto to release his Kyuubi chakra. Then even after this Naruto was then imprisoned in a mini-moon which he broke out of thanks to 8 tails of Kyuubi power. In this case the word Kyuubi can be subbed out for "main char". Then if you actually pay attention to their meeting in Konan's paper tree, it is clear that Nagato has the ability to kill Naruto. It is only through Naruto's words that Nagato changes his heart and sacrifices himself to revive the fallen shinobi of Konoha.

Saying Naruto defeated Pain is like saying Sasuke defeated Itachi. It just never happened.

1. Naruto defeated Pain
2. Naruto had been training just minutes before his summoning with Pain, and had just used a rushed idea to use shadow clones to sustain SM
3. Jiraiya said it himself, the Kyuubi comes when he is feeling emotionally unstable, or in life-threatening situations. Thus, if the Kyuubi did not come at that time, it would have come probably before Naruto getting the thing sucked out of him.
4. What words made it clear that he could have killed him? I actually found quite the opposite, "My way of the ninja is the same as my masters, so... I won't kill you. Naruto overcomes his rage! Next chapter!!
5. He withstood Nagatos chakra at point blank range.
6. Naruto had been collecting information on Nagato for a few weeks or so, Akatsuki had PLENTY of information about Naruto for a few years at the least. You do remember the info that shinobi corpses leave? Madara commented on how Naruto ended two of Kakuzus lives in one attack. They had THAT detail, suggesting that they definitely had info on him as well. Itachi also fought him, and I'm sure he had to keep his cover. Pain most likely knew the "truth" about Itachi but whatever.
7. In manga canonicity, it has been stated by characters that Naruto defeated Pain. Kishi wrote those words on paper himself.
8. Obviously, we have RARELY seen Naruto kill an enemy. Haku was killed by Kakashi, Gaara was left alive and later turned into an ally, Kakuzu was killed by Kakashi, Mizuki was beaten to a pulp, the genin from the land of rain were not killed, and were even seen again in a filler arc later on, Kabuto escaped with Orochimaru, etc. From this we can speculate that Naruto doesnt typically kill anyway, so that could alter the path for him as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but when has he actually killed anyone? Oh yeah, Itachis clone, and that can also be rounded off to the ferocity gained by the Kyuubis influence. A Kyuubi-sober Naruto in manga canonicity has not really killed anyone.

 

[Typhon]

1. Naruto defeated Pain
2. Naruto had been training just minutes before his summoning with Pain, and had just used a rushed idea to use shadow clones to sustain SM
3. Jiraiya said it himself, the Kyuubi comes when he is feeling emotionally unstable, or in life-threatening situations. Thus, if the Kyuubi did not come at that time, it would have come probably before Naruto getting the thing sucked out of him.
4. What words made it clear that he could have killed him? I actually found quite the opposite, "My way of the ninja is the same as my masters, so... I won't kill you. Naruto overcomes his rage! Next chapter!!
5. He withstood Nagatos chakra at point blank range.
6. Naruto had been collecting information on Nagato for a few weeks or so, Akatsuki had PLENTY of information about Naruto for a few years at the least. You do remember the info that shinobi corpses leave? Madara commented on how Naruto ended two of Kakuzus lives in one attack. They had THAT detail, suggesting that they definitely had info on him as well. Itachi also fought him, and I'm sure he had to keep his cover. Pain most likely knew the "truth" about Itachi but whatever.
7. In manga canonicity, it has been stated by characters that Naruto defeated Pain. Kishi wrote those words on paper himself.
8. Obviously, we have RARELY seen Naruto kill an enemy. Haku was killed by Kakashi, Gaara was left alive and later turned into an ally, Kakuzu was killed by Kakashi, Mizuki was beaten to a pulp, the genin from the land of rain were not killed, and were even seen again in a filler arc later on, Kabuto escaped with Orochimaru, etc. From this we can speculate that Naruto doesnt typically kill anyway, so that could alter the path for him as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but when has he actually killed anyone? Oh yeah, Itachis clone, and that can also be rounded off to the ferocity gained by the Kyuubis influence. A Kyuubi-sober Naruto in manga canonicity has not really killed anyone.

1. He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets. The difference being Sakura and Chiyo actually fought the puppet master after they defeated the puppets.

2. From how he looked when he arrived in Konoha he didn't seem to be tired at all, he seemed fine. And just because he rushed the idea of using shadow clones doesn't mean it wasn't a huge help to him. Comparing training to destroying the entire village of Konoha is a little silly IMO.

3. Naruto most likely would have been unconscious for the removal of the 9-tails so I don't think it would have came out. The beasts didn't come out of the other jinchuriki when they were being removed, there is probably some aspect of the statue that prevents it from happening.

4.

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If you read that page Konan says "Nagato, that's just a waste of time! Just hurry up and-" Then she is cut off by a calm Nagato who says, "Wait Konan, I want to hear his answer." I interpreted this as Konan saying "hurry up and kill him." Maybe you'll interpret it differently. Just given the wording any body language I believe thats what it meant.

5. While an extraordinary feat, withstanding his chakra at point black does not equate to being stronger/defeating him. Nagato has other techniques. Who's to say he couldn't just pull out Gedo Maze and rip out Naruto's soul? He had enough chakra left to revive the entire village of Konoha, I'm sure he could handle summoning it.

6. Yes Nagato had plenty of information on Naruto. But still Nagato had no idea about the sage mode. And while he new about sage mode because of Jiraiya, Naruto was able to master it even further than him as seen by how Naruto doesn't gain any ugly toad-like features. Also Naruto did have some information on Nagato. Ma and Pa had both fought Pain, the people in the village had fought against Pain, and by the time Naruto fought Pain, his secret had already been revealed.

7. In the manga it also stated that Sasuke "killed" Itachi. But we all know what really happened there, no? Itachi and Nagato both ended up dead while Naruto and Sasuke ended up alive, yet did they really defeat them? If thats how you want to define "defeat" then theres not point in continuing this because were just going to disagree.

8. I agree that we don't see Naruto kill enemies. Its just not his MO. It would defeat the purpose of his character, so I doubt we will see Naruto kill almost anyone. Maybe Madara, but who knows.

 

[gscabana]

all u keep saying ultimate defence, ultimate defence bla bla bla

but u forget that that ultimate defence didnt keep sasuke safe

 

[gscabana]

1. He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets. The difference being Sakura and Chiyo actually fought the puppet master after they defeated the puppets.

2. From how he looked when he arrived in Konoha he didn't seem to be tired at all, he seemed fine. And just because he rushed the idea of using shadow clones doesn't mean it wasn't a huge help to him. Comparing training to destroying the entire village of Konoha is a little silly IMO.

3. Naruto most likely would have been unconscious for the removal of the 9-tails so I don't think it would have came out. The beasts didn't come out of the other jinchuriki when they were being removed, there is probably some aspect of the statue that prevents it from happening.

4.

You must be registered for see links

If you read that page Konan says "Nagato, that's just a waste of time! Just hurry up and-" Then she is cut off by a calm Nagato who says, "Wait Konan, I want to hear his answer." I interpreted this as Konan saying "hurry up and kill him." Maybe you'll interpret it differently. Just given the wording any body language I believe thats what it meant.

5. While an extraordinary feat, withstanding his chakra at point black does not equate to being stronger/defeating him. Nagato has other techniques. Who's to say he couldn't just pull out Gedo Maze and rip out Naruto's soul? He had enough chakra left to revive the entire village of Konoha, I'm sure he could handle summoning it.

6. Yes Nagato had plenty of information on Naruto. But still Nagato had no idea about the sage mode. And while he new about sage mode because of Jiraiya, Naruto was able to master it even further than him as seen by how Naruto doesn't gain any ugly toad-like features. Also Naruto did have some information on Nagato. Ma and Pa had both fought Pain, the people in the village had fought against Pain, and by the time Naruto fought Pain, his secret had already been revealed.

7. In the manga it also stated that Sasuke "killed" Itachi. But we all know what really happened there, no? Itachi and Nagato both ended up dead while Naruto and Sasuke ended up alive, yet did they really defeat them? If thats how you want to define "defeat" then theres not point in continuing this because were just going to disagree.

8. I agree that we don't see Naruto kill enemies. Its just not his MO. It would defeat the purpose of his character, so I doubt we will see Naruto kill almost anyone. Maybe Madara, but who knows.

man ur logic is crap...



'He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets.

yea thats also like saying " you kicked sasukes ass, layed his susano and all other eye tricks to waste" BUT YOU DIDNT BEAT HIM BC MADARA saved him lol

cmon really? defeated his 6 paths but not him? and what happened when konan said bla bla bla finish him off and he didnt, what else could he do?? he already tried a short rangge chakra stick attack... didnt work...


i totally disagree when u compare naruto vs nagato with sasuke vs itachi... i mean cmon.... itachi would have annihalated sasuke.. nagato couldnt

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

1. He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets. The difference being Sakura and Chiyo actually fought the puppet master after they defeated the puppets.

2. From how he looked when he arrived in Konoha he didn't seem to be tired at all, he seemed fine. And just because he rushed the idea of using shadow clones doesn't mean it wasn't a huge help to him. Comparing training to destroying the entire village of Konoha is a little silly IMO.

3. Naruto most likely would have been unconscious for the removal of the 9-tails so I don't think it would have came out. The beasts didn't come out of the other jinchuriki when they were being removed, there is probably some aspect of the statue that prevents it from happening.

4.

You must be registered for see links

If you read that page Konan says "Nagato, that's just a waste of time! Just hurry up and-" Then she is cut off by a calm Nagato who says, "Wait Konan, I want to hear his answer." I interpreted this as Konan saying "hurry up and kill him." Maybe you'll interpret it differently. Just given the wording any body language I believe thats what it meant.

5. While an extraordinary feat, withstanding his chakra at point black does not equate to being stronger/defeating him. Nagato has other techniques. Who's to say he couldn't just pull out Gedo Maze and rip out Naruto's soul? He had enough chakra left to revive the entire village of Konoha, I'm sure he could handle summoning it.

6. Yes Nagato had plenty of information on Naruto. But still Nagato had no idea about the sage mode. And while he new about sage mode because of Jiraiya, Naruto was able to master it even further than him as seen by how Naruto doesn't gain any ugly toad-like features. Also Naruto did have some information on Nagato. Ma and Pa had both fought Pain, the people in the village had fought against Pain, and by the time Naruto fought Pain, his secret had already been revealed.

7. In the manga it also stated that Sasuke "killed" Itachi. But we all know what really happened there, no? Itachi and Nagato both ended up dead while Naruto and Sasuke ended up alive, yet did they really defeat them? If thats how you want to define "defeat" then theres not point in continuing this because were just going to disagree.

8. I agree that we don't see Naruto kill enemies. Its just not his MO. It would defeat the purpose of his character, so I doubt we will see Naruto kill almost anyone. Maybe Madara, but who knows.

1. Once the 6 paths of Pain were finished, it was pretty much over. What did NAGATO do other than control them?

2. Nagato also appeared fine as the 6 paths were fighting Naruto. That didn't change how he really was. Emaciated? Yes, but that is part of his appearance. No scratches or other signs of injury.

3. How do we knock Naruto unconscious? His 9-tails chakra heals up pretty rapidly. In any appearance that he has been knocked out he has recovered pretty quickly.

4. Konan sticks by Pain all the way. Its just like in Dragonballz
Frieza: You cannot defeat me! I rule the universe!
Goku: That didn't stop me from decimating everything on you from the neck down.
Ex 2.
Cell: I'm unbeatable!
(Gohan kicks his ass...)
I did just compare two different mangas, but it all comes down to the same thing. Konan is loyal to Pain and did not want him to lose, nor did she believe he could.

5. Look what Gedo Mazo did to him, he's in a wheelchair with rods on his back. Not only that, but whatever that thing is that is sucking the Bijuu out of the hosts looks enough like Gedo Mazo that we can guess that is who it is. On top of that, we have NO idea what the Kyuubis soul would have in interaction with that Gedo Mazo soul sucking technique.

6.Naruto did not know exactly which Pain could bring the others back to life, He did not know about Chibaku Tensei, which created the MOON. He did not know about the Human Paths sucking soul abilities, he also had no idea that the Preta Path could suck chakra, just ninjutsu.

7. I agree with you, Sasuke did kill Itachi. However, Itachi did plan it and he was dying of the unknown disease. Take the last 2 chapters of the Naruto and Pain fight. Look at Pain. You can clearly see a much more violent side of him, "If you don't have an answer... Give up!!!". Not only that, but he did tell Naruto that if he missed with his two RasenShurikens that he would beat him half to death. Seems like he had some slight killer intent there. Naruto doesnt kill, Pain doesnt kill.

8. Thanks for agreeing. I appreciate it.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

man ur logic is crap...



'He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets.

yea thats also like saying " you kicked sasukes ass, layed his susano and all other eye tricks to waste" BUT YOU DIDNT BEAT HIM BC MADARA saved him lol

cmon really? defeated his 6 paths but not him? and what happened when konan said bla bla bla finish him off and he didnt, what else could he do?? he already tried a short rangge chakra stick attack... didnt work...


i totally disagree when u compare naruto vs nagato with sasuke vs itachi... i mean cmon.... itachi would have annihalated sasuke.. nagato couldnt

Come on now, while I did disagree with him and agree with you on many counts, his logic was good and you could see where he was coming from. At least he writes intelligently, you'd be surprised how many people TiP3 LiiKe DiiS and still try to make a point. He just picked a side and tried to justify it. We chose the other.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

all u keep saying ultimate defence, ultimate defence bla bla bla

but u forget that that ultimate defence didnt keep sasuke safe

One thing I've learned in Naruto, every "ultimate defense", has an attack called an "ultimate offense" that can take it out.

 

[Typhon]

"man ur logic is crap..."

If you're going to make a statement like that you should really make better posts.....



"'He did not defeat Pain. He defeated the six paths of pain, but those were simply puppets of Nagato's. He never actually fought the real Nagato so you cannot say he defeated him. Saying he defeated Pain for destroying the six paths of pain is like saying Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori when they took out the 3rd Kazekage and the 100 puppets.

yea thats also like saying " you kicked sasukes ass, layed his susano and all other eye tricks to waste" BUT YOU DIDNT BEAT HIM BC MADARA saved him lol"

Ummm.....no......no its not. Sasuke is an actual person. Beating Sasuke's ass is beating Sasuke's ass. Its really a simple concept and I'm a little shocked you can't grasp it. The six paths of pain are corpses that are being controlled by Nagato. They are no different than puppets such as the ones Kankaro or Sasori used. Defeating the puppets, is not defeating the puppet master. I really don't see how your example is in any way related to what I said.....

"cmon really? defeated his 6 paths but not him? and what happened when konan said bla bla bla finish him off and he didnt, what else could he do?? he already tried a short rangge chakra stick attack... didnt work..."

Oh no! Naruto can resist Nagato's chakra at close range! What ever will he do?! Nagato has the rinnengan.....the eye technique that was said to give rise to ALL JUTSU! What makes you think he can't use the same techniques as his puppets? What about Gedo Maze? He used that without the need of a puppet when Hanzo attacked him. Hell he killed Hanzo with the use of his puppets. But no you're right, all he can do is use chakra sticks. LOL.


"i totally disagree when u compare naruto vs nagato with sasuke vs itachi... i mean cmon.... itachi would have annihalated sasuke.. nagato couldnt"

I was comparing the ending situation of both fights. In both fights the stronger character ended up dead. Itachi planned his death from the beginning to give Sasuke the MS. Pain's mind was changed by Naruto's words so he decided to sacrifice himself to revive Konoha.

 

[Deidara Akatsuki]

naruto would have defeated all of them he is stronger than sasuke and he defeated pein ON HIS OWN

NO HE DID NOT YOU SPACK.

wtf, pain wasted half his chakra blowing konoha up.
also kakashi was fighting, komonaru and pein wasted half his energy and time actually looking for naruto..

if it was all peins v naruto and naruto didnt have the intel what the villagers gave him he would of been bummd

 

[Valkyria]

Now, now guys. Let's not derail this thread

eyesofthekyuubi44 we've already had this discussion already in the Naruto vs Raikage thread. Pain/Nagato was already nerfed enough so that it'd seem somewhat possible/credible for Naruto to come out on up. The easiest way to put it is, if both Naruto and Pain both encountered each other randomly and were both willing to kill each other then the fight certainly stacks toward Pain. Mainly because Naruto won't be in Sage mode at the very beginning, he won't have multiple sage clones as backup power source, he won't have summons to back him up straight away, non-fighting personnel used as distractions and he certainly won't have important intel like the 5 sec rule and other path powers with instant updates from a healing slug. On the other side you'd have a fresh Pain with actual killing intent, Tendou pain fully powered at the very start and the valuable information of Pain's individual powers still intact. Don't forget that Naruto's fighting style is primarily Rasengans and Kage Bushins and that is how he fights from the get go. There's not a lot of info to be gotten from him as it's pretty straight forward and not comparable to Pain's abilities which are basically otherworldly.

 

[Kusanagi]

Pain did not want to kill Naruto. – Nanaki

If Pain would have captured Naruto than they would eventually have hooked him up to the statue. This would have ultimately ended with Naruto’s death. I don’t think Pain would have said, “Oh, I’m sorry Naruto. I didn’t mean to KILL YOU!!”

Then if you actually pay attention to their meeting in Konan's paper tree, it is clear that Nagato has the ability to kill Naruto.

He could’ve but didn’t. He needed his Kyuubi. After Pain shot him with one of his black projectiles Naruto had the Kyuubi Sage eyes (Awesome!!) and had to opportunity to kill Pain and didn’t. So, in a sense, they had the power to kill each other but no one did it. Pain, you can say, commit suicide. Now if Naruto had pulled back the paper and attacked in three tails mode that would've been a different story.

I'm a Narutard! I'm a Narutard! I'm a Narutard! I wonder how he would have faired against the Mizucougar?

 

[NineTailedSage]

I feel like in every thread discussing Naruto's strength someone always tries to say Naruto "defeated" Pain. This NEVER happened. First of all you must take into the fact that Pain did not want to kill Naruto. That greatly alters the path of the battle. Then consider the fact that Pain had just laid waste to the ENTIRE village of Konoha. He killed multiple top shinobi including Kakashi, and he made Tsunade exert herself to the point of falling into a coma. On top of that, Pain had Naruto pinned down this his chakra bolt thing stuck through Naruto's hands. The battle at this point was OVER. It only continued because Hinata interfered and got Naruto to release his Kyuubi chakra. Then even after this Naruto was then imprisoned in a mini-moon which he broke out of thanks to 8 tails of Kyuubi power. In this case the word Kyuubi can be subbed out for "main char". Then if you actually pay attention to their meeting in Konan's paper tree, it is clear that Nagato has the ability to kill Naruto. It is only through Naruto's words that Nagato changes his heart and sacrifices himself to revive the fallen shinobi of Konoha.

Saying Naruto defeated Pain is like saying Sasuke defeated Itachi. It just never happened.

You are wrong pain could not beat Naruto. Naruto won fair and square, he held back with his full power. Yeah pain only wanted to capture him but weather or not the kyuubi appeared is not relevant. Kyuubi is a part of his soul, his dark side that is always being suppressed. A power he POSSESES but dosen't like to use. You keep saying he didn't beat pain and it was obvious in the paper tree. Bull! Nagato clearly could not control Naruto at that point. Either the rods kept scrambling his kyuubi sage powers which gave him those eyes or something but naruto was the least fearful of the two, and the most confident as to the outcome of the battle. You wish Naruto lost, but I think Nagato surrendered to superior fire power as well as reason. Naruto having broken free of the moon was a new shinobi, fully confident in his abilities and totally resolute. His only issue was weather to kill pain, or not, for all the suffering he had inflicted on Konoha, Jirya, Kakashi, Pa toad, and finally Hinata. So no more of this silly Pain didn't lose to Naruto talk.

 

[Love Cook]

You are wrong pain could not beat Naruto. Naruto won fair and square, he held back with his full power. Yeah pain only wanted to capture him but weather or not the kyuubi appeared is not relevant. Kyuubi is a part of his soul, his dark side that is always being suppressed. A power he POSSESES but dosen't like to use. You keep saying he didn't beat pain and it was obvious in the paper tree. Bull! Nagato clearly could not control Naruto at that point. Either the rods kept scrambling his kyuubi sage powers which gave him those eyes or something but naruto was the least fearful of the two, and the most confident as to the outcome of the battle. You wish Naruto lost, but I think Nagato surrendered to superior fire power as well as reason. Naruto having broken free of the moon was a new shinobi, fully confident in his abilities and totally resolute. His only issue was weather to kill pain, or not, for all the suffering he had inflicted on Konoha, Jirya, Kakashi, Pa toad, and finally Hinata. So no more of this silly Pain didn't lose to Naruto talk.

Agreed

 

[Typhon]

You are wrong pain could not beat Naruto. Naruto won fair and square, he held back with his full power. Yeah pain only wanted to capture him but weather or not the kyuubi appeared is not relevant. Kyuubi is a part of his soul, his dark side that is always being suppressed. A power he POSSESES but dosen't like to use. You keep saying he didn't beat pain and it was obvious in the paper tree. Bull! Nagato clearly could not control Naruto at that point. Either the rods kept scrambling his kyuubi sage powers which gave him those eyes or something but naruto was the least fearful of the two, and the most confident as to the outcome of the battle. You wish Naruto lost, but I think Nagato surrendered to superior fire power as well as reason. Naruto having broken free of the moon was a new shinobi, fully confident in his abilities and totally resolute. His only issue was weather to kill pain, or not, for all the suffering he had inflicted on Konoha, Jirya, Kakashi, Pa toad, and finally Hinata. So no more of this silly Pain didn't lose to Naruto talk.

Once again.....Nagato not being able to control Naruto at close range does not mean he had nothing else he could to. You're blatantly ignoring simple facts.

A.) Naruto was pinned down by chakra sticks midway through the battle. Nagato could have simply ended his life right there and then. Game over. Naruto lost. Anything that happens beyond this point is moot.

B.) Prior to the beginning of the battle Nagato took out the entire village of Konoha. He killed numerous top shinobi including Kakashi and incapacitated others. He then proceeded to make a crater that encompassed the entire village. Naruto was training prior to it yes, but that in no way equates to what Nagato had gone through.

C.) Nagato wasn't trying to kill Naruto. Its a simple fact. You say that he would have killed him by extracting the Kyuubi which is true. But doesn't mean hes going to try to kill Naruto during the battle. He was intentionally trying not to. His intentions after the battle do not effect his intentions during.

D.) I pointed out the quote during their meeting that hints at the fact that Nagato could kill Naruto there. The chakra sticks are not Nagato's only ability. He has the Rinnengan for gods sake! Before using corpses to control he was able to kill Hanzo, so clearly his is a capable ninja without the six paths of pain. He had enough chakra to revive everyone in Konoha so he obviously had plenty of chakra left. Konan said, "Just hurry up and---" she was cut off by a clam Nagato who said, "No, I want to hear his answer." Try to finish her sentence. Part of reading something is understanding things that aren't spelled out for you. If you look at the language and the body language used by the characters its clear that both Konan and Nagato are confident that Nagato could kill Naruto if he wanted to.

E.) I in no way wanted Pain to win this fight. I thought he was a decent character, but he had served his purpose. I love character development. If a story lacks progress and development it sucks. The whole Pain arc was an important storyline to show character development in many characters. I wouldn't change anything about it. I'm simply trying to explain that Naruto is not stronger than Pain nor did he actually "defeat" him. Its not a knock against Naruto, Naruto is a great character IMO, but its just what happened.

 

[Deidara Akatsuki]

Once again.....Nagato not being able to control Naruto at close range does not mean he had nothing else he could to. You're blatantly ignoring simple facts.

A.) Naruto was pinned down by chakra sticks midway through the battle. Nagato could have simply ended his life right there and then. Game over. Naruto lost. Anything that happens beyond this point is moot.

B.) Prior to the beginning of the battle Nagato took out the entire village of Konoha. He killed numerous top shinobi including Kakashi and incapacitated others. He then proceeded to make a crater that encompassed the entire village. Naruto was training prior to it yes, but that in no way equates to what Nagato had gone through.

C.) Nagato wasn't trying to kill Naruto. Its a simple fact. You say that he would have killed him by extracting the Kyuubi which is true. But doesn't mean hes going to try to kill Naruto during the battle. He was intentionally trying not to. His intentions after the battle do not effect his intentions during.

D.) I pointed out the quote during their meeting that hints at the fact that Nagato could kill Naruto there. The chakra sticks are not Nagato's only ability. He has the Rinnengan for gods sake! Before using corpses to control he was able to kill Hanzo, so clearly his is a capable ninja without the six paths of pain. He had enough chakra to revive everyone in Konoha so he obviously had plenty of chakra left. Konan said, "Just hurry up and---" she was cut off by a clam Nagato who said, "No, I want to hear his answer." Try to finish her sentence. Part of reading something is understanding things that aren't spelled out for you. If you look at the language and the body language used by the characters its clear that both Konan and Nagato are confident that Nagato could kill Naruto if he wanted to.

E.) I in no way wanted Pain to win this fight. I thought he was a decent character, but he had served his purpose. I love character development. If a story lacks progress and development it sucks. The whole Pain arc was an important storyline to show character development in many characters. I wouldn't change anything about it. I'm simply trying to explain that Naruto is not stronger than Pain nor did he actually "defeat" him. Its not a knock against Naruto, Naruto is a great character IMO, but its just what happened.

You pure and simply took the words right out of my mouth.

couldnt agree more.

 

[RasenShruiken]

guys... this is not a did naruto really win against pain forum. get over yourselves.

 

[NineTailedSage]

guys... this is not a did naruto really win against pain forum. get over yourselves.

You are right. I will create a thread to discuss this issue in more detail later.