The Itachi vs Minato Thread

[DemonicAvenger]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

How can Minato sense Genjutsu..? You can't always tell whether it's an illusion and not, and if you can't realize it by yourself, you have no reason to try sensing it. If he realizes that he was caught in a Genjutsu, he still needs to break it. Jiraiya told that you need to disturb the Chakra flow in your brain with a stronger force than the Genjutsu has. Sasuke's 3T Genjutsu paralyzes people and let let them collapse, just sayin.

Itachi doesn't typically let people break Genjutsu either. [

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[AGoodBoy]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

And lol, if people think Minato is speedblitzing Itachi. Killer Bee reacted to FTG. The same Killer Bee who couldn't react to Itachi's Shunshin.

adding to this...

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[Owarij]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Oru never fought serious with Itachi, he simply wanted his body. That is a bad example. It was a small skirmish and nothing more.

It wasn't about being serious. He actually tried. The databook even listed it as a "humiliating defeat" . He attempted to break the genjutsu, but got his hand cut off.. Had Itachi been a true killer, it would have been his throat , or something more fatal. Itachi let him go. We then see that Itachi fled akatsuki because of the difference in strength, and he proclaims to kabuto that he is stronger than him.

There was just nothing he could do. Also the databook implies that it was only afterwards that orochimaru decided he actually wanted Itachi's body. Why they fought, and over what argument was never revealed

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Made an entire thread about this, and how underrated Itachi's shunshin is. He was literally moving distances before naruto and bee could blink. Bee could not keep up with him whatsoever. Naruto was semi lucky to have his kyuubi enhanced danger sensing to help him.
He deserves his 5 in speed

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

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OT:

going off manga feats and databook Itachi > Minato

going off personal opinions on what minato could do as oppose to what he has done: Minato > Itachi

Again, what does that have to do with anything I said? I never implied Minato was a better Shuriken user, that's absurb. Itachi is the best in that regard. All I said was Minato's clone can cover him from a distance and redirect any blind spot Kunai throws, similar to how he blinded the Rinnegan's field of vision. Come on guys, at least read what I say before quoting me, smh.

 

[Strict]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Itachi doesn't typically let people break Genjutsu either. [

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That makes it even worser for Minato.

And GoodBoy is beating Bogard with his own weapons.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Nato fans getting pasted here. I bet Bogard misses Ryuu.. and FizzyDrink.

 

[blazekev90]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Why are people using Orochimaru as an example? He clearly didn't try to avoid contact with Itachi, knowing he used ocular genjutsu. Orochimaru thought he was strong enough to surpass/resist Itachi's genjutsu but failed. This became clear after he expressed his shock of how powerful it truely was, which fueled his curving for the sharingan. That was the humiliating defeat in itself, his ego was defeated. However, in he did show signs of resist against Itachi's genjutsu.

With that being said, i doubt Minato would willing make eye contact with Itachi, he's not trying to test his abilities for his own desires. He'd move swiftly throughout the fight, trying to make sure Itachi wouldn't be unable to keep track of his movements the entire fight. That includes any other form of genjutsu.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Again, what does that have to do with anything I said? I never implied Minato was a better Shuriken user, that's absurb. Itachi is the best in that regard. All I said was Minato's clone can cover him from a distance and redirect any blind spot Kunai throws, similar to how he blinded the Rinnegan's field of vision. Come on guys, at least read what I say before quoting me, smh.

So you're saying itachi can't use shadow clones to aid him too?
Lmao, i like how people always use 'shadow clones' for minato in this discussion and not for itachi. Guess what, minato's shown shadow clones once; Itachi uses them constantly during a battle.

Why are people using Orochimaru as an example? He clearly didn't try to avoid contact with Itachi, knowing he used ocular genjutsu. Orochimaru thought he was strong enough to surpass/resist Itachi's genjutsu but failed. This became clear after he expressed his shock of how powerful it truely was, which fueled his curving for the sharingan. That was the humiliating defeat in itself, his ego was defeated. However, in he did show signs of resist against Itachi's genjutsu.

With that being said, i doubt Minato would willing make eye contact with Itachi, he's not trying to test his abilities for his own desires. He'd move swiftly throughout the fight, trying to make sure Itachi wouldn't be unable to keep track of his movements the entire fight. That includes any other form of genjutsu.

You've missed a crucial point owarji already made...

Eye contact is irrelevant.

 

[blazekev90]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

So you're saying itachi can't use shadow clones to aid him too?
Lmao, i like how people always use 'shadow clones' for minato in this discussion and not for itachi. Guess what, minato's shown shadow clones once; Itachi uses them constantly during a battle.



You've missed a crucial point owarji already made...

Eye contact is irrelevant.

I didn't, i mentioned he'd avoid any forms of genjutsu in the process. Not saying it'll be successful, but his attempt.

 

[Champ]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Tsukuyomi still rapes Minato

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

So you're saying itachi can't use shadow clones to aid him too?
Lmao, i like how people always use 'shadow clones' for minato in this discussion and not for itachi. Guess what, minato's shown shadow clones once; Itachi uses them constantly during a battle.



You've missed a crucial point owarji already made...

Eye contact is irrelevant.

Aid him in what exactly? Blindsiding Minato? I mentioned the clones as a means of protecting Minato from Kunai strikes from behind. I never proposed he use them offensively. Fact of the matter is, I've already told you I believe Itachi wins under these circumstances, so any further discussion is moot. If for a minute you're suggesting Minato dies from Kunai, then Lol. Minato's awareness is far too great for that.

 

[Owarij]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

I didn't, i mentioned he'd avoid any forms of genjutsu in the process. Not saying it'll be successful, but his attempt.

He can't avoid it. Because Itachi is a genjutsu master, who doesn't need to only rely on his ocular abilities.The point of Naruto and Itachi's second encounter was to prove that. After the first, naruto thought not looking at his fingers and not making eye contact was enough to avoid being caught. To which he was proven wrong

 

[~Sky~]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

A Sage Mode user being caught in a Genjutsu beginning of Shippuden Naruto almost broke out of is an absolutely ridiculous notion.

 

[Bogard]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

A Sage Mode user being caught in a Genjutsu beginning of Shippuden Naruto almost broke out of is an absolutely ridiculous notion.

Ikr, reason why i decided to rest my case. No limit fallacy right here. Judging by their arguments, Itachi solos everyone, Hashirama, Nagato included if even a sensor and Sage mode user can't

 

[Strict]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Ikr, reason why i decided to rest my case. No limit fallacy right here. Judging by their arguments, Itachi solos everyone, Hashirama, Nagato included if even a sensor and Sage mode user can't

And your logic? That Minato blitzes anyone no matter who it is?

 

[WolfHaley]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

If Minato starts off with a Kage Bushin he won't be affected by Genjutsu, plain and simple. Plus the Uchiha have a reputation for Genjutsu, leading Namikaze to take the necessary precautions, I.e the Kage Bushin. He may not know about dusk crow Genjutsu but he still inadvertently counters it via the aforementioned method. Minato may not know he's affected but the Bushin certainly will - easily dispelling the technique.

 

[Enki420]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

[QU

Spoiler

OTE=T Bogard;14479325]First of all, we got once again another confirmation that Minato sense all the time since he was able to compare Madara's chakra to Obito's while becoming Jubi's Jinchuriki

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Sensors are capable to sense chakra build up inside bodies

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So it would be easy for Minato know each time Itachi would try to build up chakra for either tsukuyomi or Amaterasu before the release just like Obito on the above picture, just like Nagato [

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], just like Zetsu as well [

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With his superior speed it would be childs play for him to escape either attacks when a slower and non-sensor opponent managed to

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Sasuke on the above picture couldn't even follow Raikage with the eyes and he is someone known to possess even better eyes than Itachi

Because of the above mention then, it would be hard for him to keep track. Susanoo would from then on be his only option

On the other side, Minato could simply decide to surround Itachi with his marked kunais

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The moment Itachi stops his Susanoo for some reasons(either avoiding chakra cost, being out of chakra or so on), he would be blitzed in this situation [

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We also have the confirmation Minato is a sage mode user, which means he trained with toads in the Sage mode mastery

Pa already confirmed knowing Minato even [

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In Sage Mode, it's basically no different than if Minato had eyes. We've seen Naruto could draw battlefields with sensing alone

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Minato can also decide to summon them and finish Itachi with their sound based jutsus

Sasuke made us understand

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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have

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(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his

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or

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or even something else in his arsenal.

We also know thanks to Kabuto, that

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, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:

Spoiler

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Reason why i believe Itachi stands no chance

I'll probably edit some more later, but this opening is already good enough for me. I rustled a bit because i'm going off-line soon

[/SPOILER]

Nice analysis of Minato's newfound abilities, but unfortunately, none of it matters. Not in this fight. We have argued about this before Bogard and you should be aware of the arguments I used in the past. To save time, it hasn't changed. My stance on this fight is still based on my understanding of genjutsu and how it works, and with that understanding , how broken and impractical it is face a genjutsu user of Itachi's standards in a one versus one fight.
Realistically , yes, Itachi has very slim oppurtunities to defeat Minato, considering most of his attacks wouldn't land a hit. Assuming your argument is that Minato will not make eye contact due to his genius level intelligence(though that in itself can be argued) it's not the only ace that Itachi would have up his sleeve. The winning card to be played that would become the deciding factor of the match would be the jutsu who's name was fan dubbed as "DCG" Dusk crow genjutsu.

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A simple genjutsu at first glance, the dangerous and overlooked aspect is the nature of the genjutsu and how it was cast to begin with. That being, requiring no eye contact or handseals. How do we know that? Naruto made it clear that he was not making eye contact nor looking at his fingernails , added to the fact that there were no visible handseals(Though admittedly seals could have been done inside of the akatsuki coat, considering how itachi ordinarily hides his hand inside the

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Back to the main point

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A while back either you or Uzumaki16 argued that the genjutsu could have been casted

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from his coat(seemingly with sharingan in their eye sockets). If that was the case, this genjutsu would be useless against Minato, unfortunately it isn't the case. Careful analysis of the entire encounter suggests otherwise. Firstly, it would go against Itachi's statement of "You are already in my genjutsu" . And secondly, all the crows seen in the encounter were part of the already applied genjutsu. Proof of this would be the abscence of feathers when the genjutsu ended

Spoiler

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In comparison to when Itachi uses actual feathers

Spoiler

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This leaves one other option for your argument , That He was put in the genjutsu when he first saw and glanced at Itachi. Once again, impossible, considering the location that he

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and the location he was when Itachi

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. Why is this important? because we get to know the specific spot that Naruto was when he was first put in the genjutsu
I.E - Right Here

Spoiler

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I talked alot about the specifics of the genjutsu, so you can understand exactly what predicament Minato is in if he faces Itachi. Itachi didn't make Naruto aware that he was in a genjutsu UNTIL he attempted to charge forward and resist. Until then, he simulated reality so well that naruto could not discern or tell that he was in one from the beginning.
This is the most important part, and where kishimoto screwed up with Genjutsu on a whole. It doesn't matter what the level of the genjutsu is. If it simulates reality perfectly, there is no way of knowing you are in one, until something out of the ordinary happens(Body dispersing into crows, sky turning red etc), or you have sharingan or another trained eye.

There are numerous ninja in this manga who have fallen to reality simulation genjutsu. Danzo, a trained war veteran, who had the eyes of a Genjutsu prodigy, was still unable to see through Sasuke's simulated genjutsu , until the very end when it was too late.(and might I tell you that Sasuke pales in comparison to what Itachi could do.) There have been more ninjas as well. Deidara and bee both also came close to death due to genjutsu of similar natures. Why do you think Kishimoto doesn't have this sort of genjutsu be used more often? Because's its broken, and no shounen manga writer wishes to see a character easily defeat characters in a few panel with such dull deceit and trickery..

Once minato is placed in this genjutsu, of which level and degree are unknown, considering it was never stated. It's just a matter of utilizing shunshin to close distance and slit his throat. An attack that could be done in less than 4 seconds. While Minato hasn't even realized he's in a genjutsu , and is standing comatose in the same spot.

There is nothing Minato could do at that point. Just as there was nothing Deidara could do, Nothing Orochimaru could do and so many others. To utilize Kai, you must first realize you are in a genjutsu, then overpower the enemey's chakra.

Sensing and Sage mode cannot help Minato, considering he will never be able to tell when his own chakra is being manipulated until it's already being manipulated. It's the same reason shee was caught in genjtusu despite being an expert sensor, The same reason Kabuto hid his eyes despite having sage mode.
And this is just at the very beginning of the match, when the first lay eyes on each other, as he always does . Itachi is a smart man, Why play stamina games with a man that not only has ftg, but is also avoiding eye contact? It doesn't suit his style and certainely wouldn't happen.

Tldr Itachi In this manga, depending on his opponent, is essentially just as broken as Sozuke Aizen's Kyōka Suigetsu. The very brokenness isn't portrayed much except for his encounter with deidara and a few other situations. in which he put the opponent in a genjutsu and simulated reality perfectly so they couldn't tell even if they wanted to. If Itachi was a bloodlusted killer, at that point, immediately after putting them in a genjutsu, he could run up and slit their throats.
Thank god for plot.
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Your forgetting Obito has the same genjutsu and he got man handled by the 4th.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

Aid him in what exactly? Blindsiding Minato? I mentioned the clones as a means of protecting Minato from Kunai strikes from behind. I never proposed he use them offensively. Fact of the matter is, I've already told you I believe Itachi wins under these circumstances, so any further discussion is moot. If for a minute you're suggesting Minato dies from Kunai, then Lol. Minato's awareness is far too great for that.

Aiding in dispensing those same clones, Or parrying those same kunai's used for parrying. Itachi bends kunai around trees, he can parry a parry quite casually while his original kunai go on course.

Minato is my favourite character. What i explicitly said was "people never factor in itachi also using shadow clones" which, by this response, I'm spot on about.

Ikr, reason why i decided to rest my case. No limit fallacy right here. Judging by their arguments, Itachi solos everyone, Hashirama, Nagato included if even a sensor and Sage mode user can't

So, you jump to conclussions now? Bogard you've lost. Just accept defeat like a man.

If Minato starts off with a Kage Bushin he won't be affected by Genjutsu, plain and simple. Plus the Uchiha have a reputation for Genjutsu, leading Namikaze to take the necessary precautions, I.e the Kage Bushin. He may not know about dusk crow Genjutsu but he still inadvertently counters it via the aforementioned method.

And what happens when Itachi decides to toss out a clone too? Now he sets his clone after 1 minato while he goes after another. Both get trapped. The clone is unaffected while the real one isn't.

Minato doesn't have head hunter jutsu, or a diversion to trick itachi into believing the clone is actually him.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

I think it's about time I one shot this vindictive, obdurate, Aberrant, audacious thread

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[Bogard]

Re: Thee Itachi vs Minato Thread

And your logic? That Minato blitzes anyone no matter who it is?

Already explained why he would be blitzed. Itachi couldnt outspeed Sasuke when Minato left him in the dust. Minato even outsped the fastest shinobi in a war era between Senju and Uchihas. His reflexive speed is above that of Raikage who blitzed Sasuke's eyes presented as better than his brothers. Not even mentioning hiraishin here. Either with his shunshin or hiraishin, he has all the ways to blitz Itachi, but i won't continue the discussion further since our opinions would never change

So, you jump to conclussions now? Bogard you've lost. Just accept defeat like a man.

I don't consider it a defeat when the only ones i'm debating against here are Uchiha fanboys. The example i gave with Hashirama, Nagato and so on is valid. How do they counter genjutsu in your opinion? What makes them above Itachi?