Genjutsu, still no counter to it. Thus, Itachi solos forever and always.
Plus, there really is no evidence that Minato can use a perfect sage mode while alive because the edo tensei body after all gets rid of physical limitations.
Real talk though. Even though this isn't the last "minato vs itachi" thread treat it like it is. I want to see obscene wank from both parties arguments.
Anyone trying to convince Bogard Itachi > Minato is wasting their time. He's actually the most loyal fan I've ever seen lmfao. I remember when Minato practically had just FTG and Rasengan, he was adamant Minato won 8/10 with around mid diff. Toss is Sage mode, Shadow clones, FTG swap, sensing, some Shunshins etc.. you get the drift.
Anyone trying to convince Bogard Itachi > Minato is wasting their time. He's actually the most loyal fan I've ever seen lmfao. I remember when Minato practically had just FTG and Rasengan, he was adamant Minato won 8/10 with around mid diff. Toss is Sage mode, Shadow clones, FTG swap, sensing, some Shunshins etc.. you get the drift.
OTE=T Bogard;14479325]First of all, we got once again another confirmation that Minato sense all the time since he was able to compare Madara's chakra to Obito's while becoming Jubi's Jinchuriki
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Sensors are capable to sense chakra build up inside bodies
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So it would be easy for Minato know each time Itachi would try to build up chakra for either tsukuyomi or Amaterasu before the release just like Obito on the above picture, just like Nagato [
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], just like Zetsu as well [
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]
With his superior speed it would be childs play for him to escape either attacks when a slower and non-sensor opponent managed to
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Sasuke on the above picture couldn't even follow Raikage with the eyes and he is someone known to possess even better eyes than Itachi
Because of the above mention then, it would be hard for him to keep track. Susanoo would from then on be his only option
On the other side, Minato could simply decide to surround Itachi with his marked kunais
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The moment Itachi stops his Susanoo for some reasons(either avoiding chakra cost, being out of chakra or so on), he would be blitzed in this situation [
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We also have the confirmation Minato is a sage mode user, which means he trained with toads in the Sage mode mastery
Pa already confirmed knowing Minato even [
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In Sage Mode, it's basically no different than if Minato had eyes. We've seen Naruto could draw battlefields with sensing alone
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Minato can also decide to summon them and finish Itachi with their sound based jutsus
Sasuke made us understand
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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
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(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
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or
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or even something else in his arsenal.
We also know thanks to Kabuto, that
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, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:
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Reason why i believe Itachi stands no chance
I'll probably edit some more later, but this opening is already good enough for me. I rustled a bit because i'm going off-line soon[/QUOTE][/SPOILER]
Nice analysis of Minato's newfound abilities, but unfortunately, none of it matters. Not in this fight. We have argued about this before Bogard and you should be aware of the arguments I used in the past. To save time, it hasn't changed. My stance on this fight is still based on my understanding of genjutsu and how it works, and with that understanding , how broken and impractical it is face a genjutsu user of Itachi's standards in a one versus one fight.
Realistically , yes, Itachi has very slim oppurtunities to defeat Minato, considering most of his attacks wouldn't land a hit. Assuming your argument is that Minato will not make eye contact due to his genius level intelligence(though that in itself can be argued) it's not the only ace that Itachi would have up his sleeve. The winning card to be played that would become the deciding factor of the match would be the jutsu who's name was fan dubbed as "DCG" Dusk crow genjutsu.
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A simple genjutsu at first glance, the dangerous and overlooked aspect is the nature of the genjutsu and how it was cast to begin with. That being, requiring no eye contact or handseals. How do we know that? Naruto made it clear that he was not making eye contact nor looking at his fingernails , added to the fact that there were no visible handseals(Though admittedly seals could have been done inside of the akatsuki coat, considering how itachi ordinarily hides his hand inside the
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Back to the main point
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A while back either you or Uzumaki16 argued that the genjutsu could have been casted
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from his coat(seemingly with sharingan in their eye sockets). If that was the case, this genjutsu would be useless against Minato, unfortunately it isn't the case. Careful analysis of the entire encounter suggests otherwise. Firstly, it would go against Itachi's statement of "You are already in my genjutsu" . And secondly, all the crows seen in the encounter were part of the already applied genjutsu. Proof of this would be the abscence of feathers when the genjutsu ended
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In comparison to when Itachi uses actual feathers
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This leaves one other option for your argument , That He was put in the genjutsu when he first saw and glanced at Itachi. Once again, impossible, considering the location that he
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and the location he was when Itachi
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. Why is this important? because we get to know the specific spot that Naruto was when he was first put in the genjutsu
I.E - Right Here
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I talked alot about the specifics of the genjutsu, so you can understand exactly what predicament Minato is in if he faces Itachi. Itachi didn't make Naruto aware that he was in a genjutsu UNTIL he attempted to charge forward and resist. Until then, he simulated reality so well that naruto could not discern or tell that he was in one from the beginning.
This is the most important part, and where kishimoto screwed up with Genjutsu on a whole. It doesn't matter what the level of the genjutsu is. If it simulates reality perfectly, there is no way of knowing you are in one, until something out of the ordinary happens(Body dispersing into crows, sky turning red etc), or you have sharingan or another trained eye.
There are numerous ninja in this manga who have fallen to reality simulation genjutsu. Danzo, a trained war veteran, who had the eyes of a Genjutsu prodigy, was still unable to see through Sasuke's simulated genjutsu , until the very end when it was too late.(and might I tell you that Sasuke pales in comparison to what Itachi could do.) There have been more ninjas as well. Deidara and bee both also came close to death due to genjutsu of similar natures. Why do you think Kishimoto doesn't have this sort of genjutsu be used more often? Because's its broken, and no shounen manga writer wishes to see a character easily defeat characters in a few panel with such dull deceit and trickery..
Once minato is placed in this genjutsu, of which level and degree are unknown, considering it was never stated. It's just a matter of utilizing shunshin to close distance and slit his throat. An attack that could be done in less than 4 seconds. While Minato hasn't even realized he's in a genjutsu , and is standing comatose in the same spot.
There is nothing Minato could do at that point. Just as there was nothing Deidara could do, Nothing Orochimaru could do and so many others. To utilize Kai, you must first realize you are in a genjutsu, then overpower the enemey's chakra.
Sensing and Sage mode cannot help Minato, considering he will never be able to tell when his own chakra is being manipulated until it's already being manipulated. It's the same reason shee was caught in genjtusu despite being an expert sensor, The same reason Kabuto hid his eyes despite having sage mode.
And this is just at the very beginning of the match, when the first lay eyes on each other, as he always does . Itachi is a smart man, Why play stamina games with a man that not only has ftg, but is also avoiding eye contact? It doesn't suit his style and certainely wouldn't happen.
Tldr Itachi In this manga, depending on his opponent, is essentially just as broken as Sozuke Aizen's Kyōka Suigetsu. The very brokenness isn't portrayed much except for his encounter with deidara and a few other situations. in which he put the opponent in a genjutsu and simulated reality perfectly so they couldn't tell even if they wanted to. If Itachi was a bloodlusted killer, at that point, immediately after putting them in a genjutsu, he could run up and slit their throats.
Thank god for plot.
That's literally the first thing that came into my mind when I saw Minato's SM. Everyone said he isn't getting BM, he got it. Everyone said he wasn't a sensor, he is. Everyone said he couldn't use clones, he can. Everyone said he couldn't use SM, he can. I really wouldn't put anything past Namikaze at this point.
So somebody made this thread already? Okay I'll list feats and counters, I won't put manga scans though, if you need for one ask, I'll add it later.
What we know of Minato?
Minato is a sensor:
1. Minato is a confirmed sensor with feats suggesting him able to sense Naruto and Kurama countries away and are working with each other.
2. Minato could also sense that Jin Madara was stronger than Jin Obito.
Amaterasu has nothing on Minato:
1. We already saw that Minato pretty much shat on Ento+FRS combo with Goshun Mawashi. In Goshun Mawashi Minato switches places with a thing that has marked with his FTG marking [which never disappears] so Minato even after getting hit gets out of it easily U_U
2. Minato has SM that he can enter very quickly as seen. Minato can sense an attack even before it happens so he'll dodge it.
3. Minato can simply shunshin dodge it.
Itachi's Susanoo has nothing on Minato:
We saw that Susanoo puts a lot of pressure on Itachi and he can use it for very little time, in fact he used the Final Susanoo only twice. Once to seal Oro and Once to seal Nagato.
The Susanoo strikes aren't going to hit Minato given his speed, sensing and SM sensing. It's a defense that Minato needs to get past which Minato does in several ways.
How Mianto gets past Susanoo:
A Susanoo is nothing but users chakra, Minato canonically can teleport anything that's connected with his chakra. So all Minato needs to do is "touch the Susanoo" to teleport it away. Minato can teleport likes of Kurama. This way Susanoo gets removed but thanks to shadow clones and Goshun Mawashi, Minato kills Itachi after making contact, I'll show how:
When Minato forms a chakra link with Itachi he's left with 4 options, namely:
1. Teleport Susanoo and leave Itachi
2. Teleport both Susanoo and Itachi
3. Teleport Itachi out of his Susanoo
4. Use shadow clone and do a Goshn Mawashi with Itachi, with that Itachi gets killed the instant Minato manages to touch Itachi's Susanoo.
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Base Itachi with Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and 3-T genjutsu isn't winning against Mianto:
As we saw and is proven Minato's reactions and speed are out of this world. Even Sage Madara couldn't notice when Minato threw his kunai next to him. He only reacted when Minato appeared with a rasengan. Tobirama also hyped Mianto's throwing speed [I have the Viz scan] Itachi gets killed if he goes taijutsu with Minato. Minato kills hims with speed, FTG and FTG level2. All of Itachi's Ninjutsus are useless against Minato's speed and FTG honestly. As shown in a filler [but quite effective] Minato can simply throw a kunai through Itachi's fire jutsu and use Hiraishin level 2 whilst Itachi is mid jutsu performing and kill him instantly with his Rasengan.
All Minato needs is a clone to fight Itachi's Genjutsu, and he's already aware of avoiding eye-contact whilst fighting an Uchihas as seen here
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Kakashi came up with shadow clone remedy and since Minato is already aware of Uchiha's skills he'll do the same. Even if Minato gets caught with a 3-T genjutsu he can escape seeing his chaka flow mastery [Kurama comparing him with BM Naruto]
So Except Tsukuyomi Itachi gets beaten in everything, his tsukuyomi is something that can end likes of Hashirama, Tobirama if hit and that's a "BIG IF"
Now the Tsukuyomi:
It's a short range Genjutsu a range Minato only gets in with a Kunai to land a killer blow as seen in all his battles. So 99% Minato doesn't get hit with it and kills him.
Now All I've written given the premise that both have no knowledge on each other. If they have the knowledge Minato will obviously come prepared with bag full of Kunais and start in SM with clones. Whilst Itachi most likely will avoid fighting altogether. He knows that Tsukuyomi is his only chance and given Minato's skill set there's no way to predict how he'll fight since he has way too many options.
Now Owarij, if you find anything objectionable or say need a scan just ask and I'll provide.
That's literally the first thing that came into my mind when I saw Minato's SM. Everyone said he isn't getting BM, he got it. Everyone said he wasn't a sensor, he is. Everyone said he couldn't use clones, he can. Everyone said he couldn't use SM, he can. I really wouldn't put anything past Namikaze at this point.
Well, minato can't genjutsued SM Kabuto, so genjutsu will not likely to happen with minato. And Minato will not be affected with Izanami since he doesn't fit the criteria for it.
If Minato meets Itachi and doesn't want to play long with him, he can throw marked kunais over itachi's head and it's over.
I can just imagine hundred of things minato can do with it and he can do all of it before itachi can finish saying O-M-G!
Tired of seeing that Itachi's genjutsu arsenal can only be utilized in short-range combat. When Sasukes genjutsu feat already trumped this. Also tsukyomi is most effective in short range. Effective... Never said it had to be casted only in close quarters. As long as Minato can see itachi, he gets genjutsu'd to the face and blitzed. Simple.
Of course if I presume Minato starts in base and is in character... Minato has never started SM right off the bat, and due to only manga knowledge, he doesn't know it's more suitable to use it when fighting itachi. Why did DSM Kabuto close his vision off, even with SM activated? To be so careful in not to be trumped by genjutsu he went as far as he did to make the possibility of Itachi's genjutsu landing zero. Why would manga knowledge Minato do the same? Kabuto was somewhat familiar with Itachi's arsenal, that's why closing off his vision in the beginning of the battle was the only to fight itachi. Minato doesn't know that, he will not replicate the same precautions...
Simple, if it's manga knowledge, Minato gets trumped every time.
Nagato is also a sensor (and as we know from Uzumakis, a quite good one). Look at the instant before he was hit by Itachi's Amaterasu. He just smiled as he didn't see that coming. Did Sage Mode Kabuto sense the Amaterasu Sasuke on the point before his feet? No, the flame suddenly appeared before his feet and made him stop. If Sasuke just raised his sight, he would've had hit him.. Minato could sense Naruto's and Kyuubi's Chakra from a far distance, so Tobirama could sense Madara's Chakra. Before claiming that Minato, while being in an offensive mode, instantly senses the Chakra built up in the Uchiha's eye and dodges, you need proves establishing this..
C said that he couldn't fight while tracking someone - Kyuubi told Minato to change his Chakra into a sensor type.
Minato sensed Madara's power in comparison to Obito's. Is this a point supporting your claim with Amaterasu? Certainly not.
Itachi is an expert when it comes to Genjutsu and feints, one can't simply see through him even if you are fully concentrated it. Avoiding eye contact constantly would mean nothing, as you would disable yourself and give Itachi more openings, in which he can cast feints easily; also Genjutsu (with a finger, with crows i.a.). You you would rather need to close your, in order to avoid the Genjutsu.
And at this point, he becomes fodder for Amaterasu, which is cast at any time, in any situation, instantly.
As I see it, the Minato supporters don't have ironclad proofs.
He can close his eyes to avoid any Genjutsu, and he is definitely hit by Amaterasu in the long run.
People simply underestimate Itachi's skills when thinking that he will only insist on Genjutsu and Amaterasu. It is his whole skills, his masterful Genjutsu, feints and tricks. To think Itachi wouldn't be able to use a feint on Minato when he tries to avoid eye contact, when Itachi esily uses them against any opponent no matter of how concentrated he would be. How can you follow Itachi's tricks and feints when you are already restricted to avoiding any significant visual contact? That's not possible. Amaterasu is only the tip of the iceberg, which becomes the most dangerous thing even with guys of Ay's speed, once they decide to avoid eye contact.
They think Minato will just close his eyes, sense Amaterasu and foresee/foreknow anything Itachi will do and blitz him. wtf.
First and foremost, Sensing will not help Minato against Itachi, at all. It didn't help Cee from being caught in a Genjutsu [
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-
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] Also notice what Cee says in the second link: "He was just using his buddy's attack as a distraction..." This is actually very important and a clever way of capturing Minato in a Genjutsu. Itachi is an expert at fighting with Bunshin feints. If Minato is in active combat with a Kage Bunshin, he won't notice Amaterasu. Its important to note that A saw Sasuke's eye bleed and predicted an attack was incoming. If Minato is preoccupied for even a second, he'll be open to an attack, and as Strict has pointed out, Minato can't actively sense and fight at the same time, as the Kyuubi implied.
Also, Minato won't start the fight activating Sage Mode. He didn't against Obito, and he thought Obito was Madara.
First and foremost, Sensing will not help Minato against Itachi, at all. It didn't help Cee from being caught in a Genjutsu [
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-
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] Also notice what Cee says in the second link: "He was just using his buddy's attack as a distraction..." This is actually very important and a clever way of capturing Minato in a Genjutsu. Itachi is an expert at fighting with Bunshin feints. If Minato is in active combat with a Kage Bunshin, he won't notice Amaterasu. Its important to note that A saw Sasuke's eye bleed and predicted an attack was incoming. If Minato is preoccupied for even a second, he'll be open to an attack, and as Strict has pointed out, Minato can't actively sense and fight at the same time, as the Kyuubi implied.
Also, Minato won't start the fight activating Sage Mode. He didn't against Obito, and he thought Obito was Madara.
