3rd Raikage VS Tobirama (2 different scenarios)

[Draegod]

Its simply a physical restraint, it has no special properties. All it does is pin its target, so that doesn't change the fact that it crumbled away when interrupted, and if the Bijuu Dama was still in the Hachibi's mouth (Which it was) the same would happen when he fell over on his face.


Deva was incapcitated by a Rasengan, pretty sure he didn't tank a Bijuu Dama from KN6.



He only has those 2 point like scars on his body (The point like scars are probably from the Raikage stabbing him) he doesn't have any other noticeable scars; unlike when he gets hit by his own Bijuu Dama in the panel you posted, he was bloody with ink all over his body. The two injuries look nothing alike, at all.

Yes, the Raikage could have damaged him, time went on between the two panels of their fight that we saw in the manga, that is when Hachibi got those injuries, cause it wasn't in the first panel and it definitely wasn't in the last one.

The smoke is clearly rising from where the two fell and no where else.

Again, not even close to being the same as collapsing with your jutsu/TBB in tact. He simply had a seal placed on him which made him cancel the tbb. The Kyubi did not collapse nor loose conscious. The Kyubi did not fall with his jutsu active, the Kyubi was fully aware of what was going on. SO please show another example of something at least close!

The 8 tails Literally thought he was injured because of his TBB. He for a fact knew his jutsu was active, he for a fact fell with it active and thus thought he was the reason that scar got there.


Deva was clearly in front of 6 tailed Naruto when it exploded with nothing in front of him to guard from it. His clothes were even damaged from the blast. Unless you can show that he evaded it or wasn't there when it exploded... I'll wait...



And again what are we looking at? Point?.... Point scars?... really? SO we are just simply avoiding the manga facts??? Hell stab slices and if it stabs/pierce it is clean and small on a bijuu. Not huge burns and damage to a Bijuu. And what about the FACT that Habachi stated they fell with there Jutsu's active? I showed a Before pic of no damage (fact), then an after pic with damage on his body (fact). What else do you need? A video??? 8 tails literally stated he thought it was his TBB, and that They both FELL WITH IT ACTIVE! As in he did not attack with hell stab first then collapsed. I mean with pictures and statements i cannot spell it out easier then what i did. I mean i could, but you should be smart enough to get it by now.

TBB to you and alot of users (including PS slash) seems to be the end all moves/jutsu's to you all. But in reality they have their downfalls and does not equal instant death.

It's easy to hate that The 3rd tanked it (because you don't wanna think he is that strong) but he did based on manga evidence. Nothing shows or states he didn't/couldn't tank one. Aye with his lighting and endurance fought and stood around With Enton/Ama' flames on his arm before chopping his arm off. You mean to tell me his dad who is more endured cannot survive a simple explosion??? Is Ama' not hotter then a Chakra explosion?

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

Most of his durability is attributed to his body. We've seen the limits of Raiton Armor on its own, and it was pierced by Sasuke's Chidori, though he didn't even manage to harm Ay...I have no reason to believe that this attack would even damage Ay let alone his much more durable father, even without his armor.

But based on what actual feats? We know that him going through his assistants teleportation Jutsu isn't that impressive as the woman herself even states that inanimate objects can pass through just fine, and that the only thing that allowed the Raikage to survive was his skin - which was akin to steel. Again, that's not entirely amazing, tearing through at the most 4mm of steel isn't as impressive as cutting through numerous trees. And again, Temari was able to dice him with her Jutsu.

How does the Raikage touch a man that's stated to be as fast, if not faster than him, when he's not even allowed to use the Jutsu that makes him so fast?

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Temari would've ended him if he were alive. You can quite clearly see he was diced in that scan.

I wouldn't bet on that. All that actually proves is that an Edo body is far less durable than that of a living entity. During Hiruzen's confrontation with his predecessors, one explosive tag a piece was able to rid them of their legs [

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]. Nagato, however, was able withstand a lot more explosive tags [

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] with his limb remaining intact, albeit very scarred. This proves that live bodies are more durable than dead ones, due to flesh and bones. Also meaning that an alive Sandaime would of comfortably tanked that. Oh, and for what it's worth, his blood was said to be as tough as iron [

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], whatever the hell that means.

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

I wouldn't bet on that. All that actually proves is that an Edo body is far less durable than that of a living entity. During Hiruzen's confrontation with his predecessors, one explosive tag a piece was able to rid them of their legs [

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]. Nagato, however, was able withstand a lot more explosive tags [

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] with his limb remaining intact, albeit very scarred. This proves that live bodies are more durable than dead ones, due to flesh and bones. Also meaning that an alive Sandaime would of comfortably tanked that. Oh, and for what it's worth, his blood was said to be as tough as iron [

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], whatever the hell that means.

There is quite a dip in power between Orochimaru and Kabuto's Edo Tensei as I'm sure you know. Suffice it to say though, that I'd agree with the jist of what you're saying as we only need to look at Madara and use Hashirama's statement as evidence. I still don't think he'd comfortably tank it, and you can't try to quantify just how much stronger he would be if he were living other than saying he is stronger. We'd brake into a no-limits fallacy then. On the flip side the same could be said for Tobirama with his techniques. Ultimately, 4mm of steel is still far below numerous trees that rapidly absorb chakra.

And the Iron part? Not that impressive considering that iron is actually weaker than a substance like Aluminium.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

There is quite a dip in power between Orochimaru and Kabuto's Edo Tensei as I'm sure you know. Suffice it to say though, that I'd agree with the jist of what you're saying as we only need to look at Madara and use Hashirama's statement as evidence. I still don't think he'd comfortably tank it, and you can't try to quantify just how much stronger he would be if he were living other than saying he is stronger. We'd brake into a no-limits fallacy then. On the flip side the same could be said for Tobirama with his techniques. Ultimately, 4mm of steel is still far below numerous trees that rapidly absorb chakra.

And the Iron part? Not that impressive considering that iron is actually weaker than a substance like Aluminium.

Incorrect. Orochimaru also perfected the Edo Tensei [

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], Kabuto merely strengthened the binding using Orochimaru's chakra [

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]. If there is a difference, it's sure to be miniscule, and not worthy of note. The sub-par performance of the Hokage can be attributed to Orochimaru's poor manipulation of them. However, I do not recall Kabuto's Edo Tensei being regarded as superior. If a more devastating cutting attack such as Rasenshuriken failed to do damage, and Temari's cast net augmented by two supporting fan wielders failed to do the job (provided I just proved Edo bodies are weaker), then there's no way Tobirama's Suiton can exploit the Sadaime's body. Bypassing numerous trees is impressive but no tree can hope to par the solidity of the Raikage's skin; regardless of how many trees Tobirama diced. The same trunks which got diced by Mifune and his little samurai buddies.

Like I said, only for what it's worth. That's merely a bonus.

 

[Icelerate]

Part one Temari has cut through far more trees than Suidanha. I know God tree branches are obviously at a higher level durability but not high enough to say that his Suidanha slices the 3rd Raikage when Shippuden Temari, much stronger than part one Temari could barely slice through with a bit of help. Anyway Wind Cast Net>>>Suidanha so I doubt it would be able to cut the 3rd Raikage, let alone finish him off.

 

[KidGamer65]

Again, not even close to being the same as collapsing with your jutsu/TBB in tact. He simply had a seal placed on him which made him cancel the tbb. The Kyubi did not collapse nor loose conscious. The Kyubi did not fall with his jutsu active, the Kyubi was fully aware of what was going on. SO please show another example of something at least close!

Please tell me how its different? They were both interrupted. Hachibi falling unconscious with his Bijuu Dama in his mouth means his Bijuu Dama was interrupted, it was never fired.

-Kurama's not losing consciousness is irrelevant.

-Kurama's Bijuu Dama was clearly active, you can see the Bijuu Dama above him, meaning it was active. Formed but not fired.

-The seal only made him cancel the Bijuu Dama because it pinned him to the ground while he was forming it.

The 8 tails Literally thought he was injured because of his TBB. He for a fact knew his jutsu was active, he for a fact fell with it active and thus thought he was the reason that scar got there.

Jutsu being active doesn't mean anything as we've already seen that it can be interrupted while its active, and once its interrupted, it doesn't explode.

Your point? Hachibi thinking he was injured because of his Bijuu Dama doesn't mean that his Bijuu Dama actually went off, he already stated he has a vague memory of that fight.

Deva was clearly in front of 6 tailed Naruto when it exploded with nothing in front of him to guard from it. His clothes were even damaged from the blast. Unless you can show that he evaded it or wasn't there when it exploded... I'll wait...

Not gonna bother, cause its not important.

And again what are we looking at? Point?.... Point scars?... really? SO we are just simply avoiding the manga facts??? Hell stab slices and if it stabs/pierce it is clean and small on a bijuu. Not huge burns and damage to a Bijuu. And what about the FACT that Habachi stated they fell with there Jutsu's active? I showed a Before pic of no damage (fact), then an after pic with damage on his body (fact). What else do you need? A video??? 8 tails literally stated he thought it was his TBB, and that They both FELL WITH IT ACTIVE! As in he did not attack with hell stab first then collapsed. I mean with pictures and statements i cannot spell it out easier then what i did. I mean i could, but you should be smart enough to get it by now.

Nukite is a spear, it can cut or pierce, or did you conveniently leave the latter part out? If

If he slashed him, you wouldn't see two point like scars on his body while the rest of his body is relatively uninjured.

The pic you showed fails to show that he tanked a Bijuu Dama, in fact it destroys your whole argument considering he only has two scars in comparison to when he actually got hit by his Bijuu Dama, and he was riddled with scars and bruises. I don't know how the hell you can believe the image of him collapsing against the Raikage and the image of him after he took his Bijuu Dama look even remotely similar, but anyone with decent eyesight can tell the obvious difference and the obvious difference in scar and bruise amount. I should be asking you if you are avoiding what is clearly shown in the manga.

-Falling with it active means nothing, we've already seen that if a Bijuu Dama is interrupted before its fired, it doesn't go off.

-Evidence for the bold? Cause I'm definitely not seeing any. All I see is you trying to get me to agree that Bijuu Dama caused two point like stab wounds and left the rest of his body unharmed rolleyes

TBB to you and alot of users (including PS slash) seems to be the end all moves/jutsu's to you all. But in reality they have their downfalls and does not equal instant death.

It's easy to hate that The 3rd tanked it (because you don't wanna think he is that strong) but he did based on manga evidence. Nothing shows or states he didn't/couldn't tank one. Aye with his lighting and endurance fought and stood around With Enton/Ama' flames on his arm before chopping his arm off. You mean to tell me his dad who is more endured cannot survive a simple explosion??? Is Ama' not hotter then a Chakra explosion?

lol......stop. I couldn't care less about how strong the Raikage is. Nothing you are saying is backed up by the manga, that's the only issue here.

Lol, now we are comparing having small Amaterasu flames on your body to tanking an explosion that evaporates Mountains? Lets be serious here. Nothing in the manga shows or states that he did tank one, period. All you have is speculation that is completely false.

An explosion that vaporizes Mountains obviously yields far more energy than an arm sized Amaterasu flame... Are you really resorting to this to prove your argument? Smh..

 

[Draegod]

Please tell me how its different? They were both interrupted. Hachibi falling unconscious with his Bijuu Dama in his mouth means his Bijuu Dama was interrupted, it was never fired.

-Kurama's not losing consciousness is irrelevant.

-Kurama's Bijuu Dama was clearly active, you can see the Bijuu Dama above him, meaning it was active. Formed but not fired.

-The seal only made him cancel the Bijuu Dama because it pinned him to the ground while he was forming it.



Jutsu being active doesn't mean anything as we've already seen that it can be interrupted while its active, and once its interrupted, it doesn't explode.

Your point? Hachibi thinking he was injured because of his Bijuu Dama doesn't mean that his Bijuu Dama actually went off, he already stated he has a vague memory of that fight.



Not gonna bother, cause its not important.


Nukite is a spear, it can cut or pierce, or did you conveniently leave the latter part out? If

If he slashed him, you wouldn't see two point like scars on his body while the rest of his body is relatively uninjured.

The pic you showed fails to show that he tanked a Bijuu Dama, in fact it destroys your whole argument considering he only has two scars in comparison to when he actually got hit by his Bijuu Dama, and he was riddled with scars and bruises. I don't know how the hell you can believe the image of him collapsing against the Raikage and the image of him after he took his Bijuu Dama look even remotely similar, but anyone with decent eyesight can tell the obvious difference and the obvious difference in scar and bruise amount. I should be asking you if you are avoiding what is clearly shown in the manga.

-Falling with it active means nothing, we've already seen that if a Bijuu Dama is interrupted before its fired, it doesn't go off.

-Evidence for the bold? Cause I'm definitely not seeing any. All I see is you trying to get me to agree that Bijuu Dama caused two point like stab wounds and left the rest of his body unharmed rolleyes



lol......stop. I couldn't care less about how strong the Raikage is. Nothing you are saying is backed up by the manga, that's the only issue here.

Lol, now we are comparing having small Amaterasu flames on your body to tanking an explosion that evaporates Mountains? Lets be serious here. Nothing in the manga shows or states that he did tank one, period. All you have is speculation that is completely false.

An explosion that vaporizes Mountains obviously yields far more energy than an arm sized Amaterasu flame... Are you really resorting to this to prove your argument? Smh..

I'm hooping and is on my phone so I'll keep it simple.. I'll reply forreal later ??????

How did he get that damage? How is the kyubi scene even close??? Nothing interrupted the habachi, literally nothing. And look up "slice" because it's clear you do not know the meaning. Nothing you said disproved anything. Just because a flashback only shows one part of the body doesn't mean the other sections were unharmed. Show how he got those wounds with something similar in the manga.

And what you do not understand is what mountains are made of. Just because something is bigger doesn't make it the most durable substance in the world.

I'll go into further laughs using your logic. Tbb couldn't kill nor evaporate habachi right? 3rd raikage damage his skin no diff right? Whether cutting or explosion tbb didn't blow any limbs yet aye and 3rd critically wounded the habachi. It will be funny how you respond to this not knowing... Lmao

 

[Touken]

Hmm, I'm kind of lost. If someone could answer my question, I'd appreciate it.

We've seen before that a large explosion doesn't equate to a necessarily more powerful explosion. Take Deidara's C0 for example; the crater which formed after that attack was pathetic at best, but it had such a wide radius. I'm sure we can all agree TBB > C0, regardless of the size. So what I'm saying is, just because it's large is there enough evidence to suggest it'd hurt Sandaime? Lets not forget they are paper bombs. Here's but one example;

Get a pebble, and throw it at a brick wall. Will the wall break? No. Now get 1000 pebbles and throw it at a brick wall. Will the wall break? Still no.

The pebble analogy isn't entirely valid, since pebbles and explosive tags yield different results; one explosive tag would be enough to break down a wall. GK's explosions

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and then

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, GK would definitely destroy Sandaime.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'm hooping and is on my phone so I'll keep it simple.. I'll reply forreal later ������

How did he get that damage? How is the kyubi scene even close??? Nothing interrupted the habachi, literally nothing. And look up "slice" because it's clear you do not know the meaning. Nothing you said disproved anything. Just because a flashback only shows one part of the body doesn't mean the other sections were unharmed. Show how he got those wounds with something similar in the manga.

If he managed to end up collapsing on his Bijuu Dama, then something obviously happened that forced it to be interrupted, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen with his attack in his mouth/on hand, he would have fired it at the Raikage.

What's clear is you don't know that Nukite isn't solely a cutting weapon, so saying it slices over and over again doesn't change the fact that you make no sense.

lol really? You can clearly see OTHER PARTS OF HIS BODY in that scan and there is NO INJURY WHATSOEVER apart from the ones I mentioned. NONE.

@bold: Why don't you show me where Bijuu Dama damaged him like you claim? I have no need to prove what damaged him as my only point is that Bijuu Dama isn't what caused those injuries, and anyone who compares his injuries from the Raikage fight to the Juubi fight will know that Bijuu Dama didn't cause those wounds, at all.

And what you do not understand is what mountains are made of. Just because something is bigger doesn't make it the most durable substance in the world.

It doesn't need to be the most durable substance in the world to make it impressive, Mountains are made of rock, simple as that.

I'll go into further laughs using your logic. Tbb couldn't kill nor evaporate habachi right? 3rd raikage damage his skin no diff right? Whether cutting or explosion tbb didn't blow any limbs yet aye and 3rd critically wounded the habachi. It will be funny how you respond to this not knowing... Lmao

Bijuu Dama not being able to evaporate Hachibi while they were able to cut it means nothing as Bijuu Dama isn't meant to cut. Doesn't change the fact that Bijuu Dama yields FAR more energy than Ay's karate chop and Nukite.

 

[Nattana]

Raikage takes this. Tobirama cannot even hurt him.

 

[Draegod]

If he managed to end up collapsing on his Bijuu Dama, then something obviously happened that forced it to be interrupted, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen with his attack in his mouth/on hand, he would have fired it at the Raikage.

What's clear is you don't know that Nukite isn't solely a cutting weapon, so saying it slices over and over again doesn't change the fact that you make no sense.

lol really? You can clearly see OTHER PARTS OF HIS BODY in that scan and there is NO INJURY WHATSOEVER apart from the ones I mentioned. NONE.

@bold: Why don't you show me where Bijuu Dama damaged him like you claim? I have no need to prove what damaged him as my only point is that Bijuu Dama isn't what caused those injuries, and anyone who compares his injuries from the Raikage fight to the Juubi fight will know that Bijuu Dama didn't cause those wounds, at all.

It doesn't need to be the most durable substance in the world to make it impressive, Mountains are made of rock, simple as that.



Bijuu Dama not being able to evaporate Hachibi while they were able to cut it means nothing as Bijuu Dama isn't meant to cut. Doesn't change the fact that Bijuu Dama yields FAR more energy than Ay's karate chop and Nukite.

As I thought You know nothing to prove my points and manga proof invalid. I'll just stop wasting my time on some one who simply thinks TBB is the end all Move along with PS shock wave. LMAO (this is why I don't bother with debating anymore)

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

The pebble analogy isn't entirely valid, since pebbles and explosive tags yield different results; one explosive tag would be enough to break down a wall. GK's explosions

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and then

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, GK would definitely destroy Sandaime.

Yes, pebbles and explosive tags wield entirely different results. However, you mustn't forget there is an extremely large difference between a brick wall and the Sandaime's skin as well. My analogy makes sense, and here's why. Ask yourself, will one, ten, twenty explosive tags do the job? It won't. Therefore, adding however many you want is doubtful to complete the job.

The size is completely irrelevant;

- Deidara's C0 radius is quite significant [

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], yet the impact it packed was rather pathetic. Just look at that puny crater [

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]. TBB, a smaller jutsu in comparison, packs a much stronger punch, vaporizing mountains even in it's weakest form [

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]. Is C0 > TBB simply because of its size and range? No. Likewise, I haven't seen anything which would suggest GK would bypass the Sandaime's skin. It's large, yes, but besides it being large all I see is a lot of exploding paper tags. With what feats suggests it can damage the Sandaime?

 

[Touken]

Yes, pebbles and explosive tags wield entirely different results. However, you mustn't forget there is an extremely large difference between a brick wall and the Sandaime's skin as well. My analogy makes sense, and here's why. Ask yourself, will one, ten, twenty explosive tags do the job? It won't. Therefore, adding however many you want is doubtful to complete the job.

The size is completely irrelevant;

- Deidara's C0 radius is quite significant [

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], yet the impact it packed was rather pathetic. Just look at that puny crater [

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]. TBB, a smaller jutsu in comparison, packs a much stronger punch, vaporizing mountains even in it's weakest form [

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]. Is C0 > TBB simply because of its size and range? No. Likewise, I haven't seen anything which would suggest GK would bypass the Sandaime's skin. It's large, yes, but besides it being large all I see is a lot of exploding paper tags. With what feats suggests it can damage the Sandaime?

Puny crater? One Bijuudama took out a mountain, while C0 is several mountains long. Yes, I believe C0 > Bijuudama, since they both are essentially bombs, and C0's shown it's the stronger bomb. GK is effectively the same thing. Thousands of paper bombs would bypass Sandaime's durability, what feats are there that suggests he's capable of tanking such techniques? A missile isn't comparable to a nuke (disregard what a nuke does in terms of radiation etc), just like how a twenty paper bombs aren't comparable to what GK does. The only thing going for Sandaime is tanking a Rasenshuriken (IIRC) which isn't comparable to GK.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Puny crater? One Bijuudama took out a mountain, while C0 is several mountains long. Yes, I believe C0 > Bijuudama, since they both are essentially bombs, and C0's shown it's the stronger bomb. GK is effectively the same thing. Thousands of paper bombs would bypass Sandaime's durability, what feats are there that suggests he's capable of tanking such techniques? A missile isn't comparable to a nuke (disregard what a nuke does in terms of radiation etc), just like how a twenty paper bombs aren't comparable to what GK does. The only thing going for Sandaime is tanking a Rasenshuriken (IIRC) which isn't comparable to GK.

Yes, a puny crater. Look at the scan I posted again; the crater which formed after the explosion was pathetic. Hell, you can even see that the trees are still intact (

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). So an explosion which failed to decimate even surrounding trees, and formed a crater that small is stronger than Tbb? Which vaporises mountains on impact? Absolutely not. Your logic is flawed, just because c0 has a wider radius, that doesn't mean it packs a stronger punch. In reality, Tbb is much more concentrated. GK is the same, you say. Then for your sake, i do hope it can at the very least destroy trees. And you must know, the burden of proof lies on you as you're the one claiming Gk destroys him; the Raikage battled the Hachibi on multiple occasions, tanked a cast net and Rasenshuriken. I still haven't seen what feats GK has which suggest it'd kill sandaime. Gk's purpose isn't to create an extremely strong explosion, its purpose was to create an explosion with a wide radius killing as many people on the battlefield as possible (

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). Its a weapon if war, and it isn't suited to taking out the 3rd Rai. On my phone so i may reply later.

 

[blazekev90]

Raikage wins quite comfortably

 

[KidGamer65]

As I thought You know nothing to prove my points and manga proof invalid. I'll just stop wasting my time on some one who simply thinks TBB is the end all Move along with PS shock wave. LMAO (this is why I don't bother with debating anymore)

The fact I'm getting this response only shows that you have no more BS to spout. You have no manga proof. You claiming that Hachibi had similar injuries to when he got hit by his Bijuu Dama when he was shown passed out is idiotic considering anyone who has eyes can see that is clearly false. Me believing Bijuu Dama and PS are the end all moves has nothing to do with this, not to mention such a thing was never stated, but you usually start barking nonsense like this so I'm not surprised.

 

[Touken]

Yes, a puny crater. Look at the scan I posted again; the crater which formed after the explosion was pathetic. Hell, you can even see that the trees are still intact (

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). So an explosion which failed to decimate even surrounding trees, and formed a crater that small is stronger than Tbb? Which vaporises mountains on impact? Absolutely not. Your logic is flawed, just because c0 has a wider radius, that doesn't mean it packs a stronger punch. In reality, Tbb is much more concentrated. GK is the same, you say. Then for your sake, i do hope it can at the very least destroy trees. And you must know, the burden of proof lies on you as you're the one claiming Gk destroys him; the Raikage battled the Hachibi on multiple occasions, tanked a cast net and Rasenshuriken. I still haven't seen what feats GK has which suggest it'd kill sandaime. Gk's purpose isn't to create an extremely strong explosion, its purpose was to create an explosion with a wide radius killing as many people on the battlefield as possible (

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). Its a weapon if war, and it isn't suited to taking out the 3rd Rai. On my phone so i may reply later.

And how does a crater indicate the strength of an explosion? Especially when the explosion isn't designed to go down, but up, so what relevance does a crater have? 1 paper bomb doesn't equate to the strength of 1000 paper bombs, which is exactly the case with GK since it concentrates all the paper bombs on one area. It isn't spread out. Tobirama had used a few paper bombs against Juubito and he stated he knew something of that scale wouldn't possibly be able to kill him [

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][

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]. So if Tobirama knew a few paper bombs wouldn't cut it, why would he resort to GK if didn't create an extremely strong explosion? The burden of proof now lies upon you, I've already shown why I think GK should be able to kill Sandaime, you now have to show me why you believe the 3rd can tank GK with references to his past durability feats.