Hyuuga: Taoist Objection to the Sage

Aim64C

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"Hanabi." The old oak's voice called.

"Yes, Father." The young girl complied, stumbling slightly up the debris-strewn embankment.

"Tell me," the elder Hyuuga paused, eyes contemplating the crater that was once the Leaf Village, "of our Clan's conviction."

The girl instinctively activated her Byakugan upon reaching her summit. The scale of devastation was ... legendary. Her consciousness lingered upon the spot where her sister fell, blood baked into the clay. A few small holes marked the epicenter of a small chakra-scorched crater not too far away - the scar of a Jinchuriki's last resort. "The Hyuuga will not utilize Ninjutsu." She said, firmly.

"Do you understand why?" Hiashi's voice was, oddly, laced with some indescribable emotion.

Her upper lip twitched slightly before giving a response, "Ninjutsu disturbs the natural ebb and flow of the universe. Kaguya sought the power of the God Tree to help ease the suffering of humanity, but her short-sightedness brought the Curse of Hatred. The Sage, in his folly, usurped the domain of the God Tree and bestowed its chakra upon humanity." Hanabi paused for a moment. "That, too, was doomed to a path of destruction. Rather than utilizing chakra to bring about a utopia, they used chakra as they use any other tool in their arsenal."

"Go on." Hiashi prodded.

"Both the Elder and Younger sons were deluded by the power no human should have. The Elder Son sought more power and control, the corruption twisting the eyes of his descendants into the Sharingan. Chakra was to usurp and bring about one's self-centered ideals." Hanabi shifted her gaze to the nearby forests. "The Younger Son believed that ninjutsu and people could live peacefully together, the sentiment ultimately twisting his descendants into the land, itself. Both of these ideas are inconsistent within the Tao, both powers a curse."

"And of our own Clan?" Hiashi, his stoic nature recomposed, prodded once more.

"Our ancestors warned the condemned Kaguya and her son of the temptation of power. Those who seek to overpower the world at every turn are soon consumed by unmanageable chaos and turbulence within the Tao. We could not overturn the Sage's curse upon humanity when he forced the chakra of the God Tree upon it, but we would not seek its power." Hanabi's vision fell, again, upon the baked-in remnants of Hinata's blood.

"Generations passed." Hiashi picked up. "We cultivated Chakra as our ancestors would have cultivated their own inner strength. We trained our minds and our bodies in the ways of the Tao. Even though we refused to rely upon it, the chakra melded our bodies to our being. The Byakugan is the raw expression of Taoist Mastery - an awareness of all that is in our surroundings. The manipulation of chakra pathways is a similar gift received from the curse."

Hanabi's brow furled for a moment. "One thing has always puzzled me, father." She paused, taking his silence as permission to continue. "We still take on missions as Ninja, and we still utilize chakra for our techniques. It seems... hypocritical."

Hiashi's face contorted into the Hyuuga-equivalent of a smile. "The Tao is about change. Yin becomes Yang, Wu precipitates Wei. Chakra has become a natural part of our Clan's being, even if it is a curse." The old oak looked directly at his daughter. "But it is a curse we must be wary of. Man nor Woman can become Gods. The eyes of the blind see what they wish. The eyes of the wise see what is necessary. There will come a time when our curse will change, as all things do."

The above is a 'novelized' form of the theory (possibly a bit more intriguing for some of you - though it's a lot of dialogue).

It always puzzled and troubled me how the Hyuuga are never depicted utilizing even the most basic of academy Jutsu. No substitutions, no basic clones, transformations - nadda. The reluctance to use substitutions, for a taijutsu-based style, is almost incomprehensible.

Many seem to have chalked it up to a sort of Hyuuga arrogance - which seems somewhat plausible given the atmosphere of the Clan. However, even during the war, many basic jutsu are forsaken at the cost of life - which was beginning to make me wonder if the Hyuuga were somehow -incapable- of performing standard ninjutsu.

Then, in a discussion with Sir Derp Obito - it hit me.

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This ties in on a tangent with one of my previous statements/theories:

It is not just the Rinnegan - but the use of chakra, itself, that represents the 'outer path' - the unnatural, even heretical path.

The Hyuuga are deeply rooted into the concepts of Taoism:

One of the cruxes of Taoism is that one works within the natural 'flow' of the universe to affect change with little effort and disruption. The reliance upon Chakra and the "God Tree" go completely against that ideology.

It remains to be seen how literal the notion is that the Sage is the 'father' of all ninja. It is quite possible that the Sage (or Kaguya) began 'gifting' chakra to human beings rather than all ninja being his blood relative (otherwise the distinction of Senju and Uchiha would be rather moot as all ninja clans would be branches of the Elder and Younger son's lineage). Perhaps when he sealed away the Juubi - he also 'imposed' chakra upon human beings in the belief that it would help (much in the way that he divided up the Juubi into the tailed beasts).

Regardless, it would appear as though the Hyuuga, at some point, objected to the notion that Chakra would be the solution to mankind's strife, perhaps even seeing Ninjutsu as a debauchery of the God Tree.

Recalling this:

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It made me wonder how chakra, over time, would influence the physical characteristics of clans.

The Aburame have become hosts to co-evolved insect colonies.

The Akimichi have developed unique techniques around their girth (which may not technically be a blood-line ability, but we see no other clans with related abilities).

The Yamanaka have developed the ultimate abilities to mess with an individual's mind (barring the ability to simply rip out their soul using the Rinnegan, mind you).

Suigetsu and the "Swordsmen" from the Mist have developed into shark-like beings with Suigetsu going so far as to be able to become water.

Perhaps without necessarily being related to the direct lineage of the Sage - it is quite possible that the Hyuuga emerged as the physical embodiment of Taoism - similar to how many other clans have expressed traits indicative of their Clan's legacy.

The Hyuuga may use chakra, but it is in line with the natural form of their Clan. Ninjutsu is rejected because it is unnatural - it is the reliance upon the powers of a God to do man's will.

That is the theory, anyway. It sprouted out of about an hour of thinking, so it should be taken with a grain of salt, but it was an interesting train of thought over a Blizzard from DQ.
 

Deviation

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I love it when you post. PUt simply, it is an interesting theory/thought on your part and gets me thinking more on the Hyuuga Clan. I feel they play an important role somewhere down the line. Or it might be that Kishimoto is theorizing how best to reintroduce them.

Keep thinking and you might come up with more great ideas.

Edit: One thing that puzzles me though is that they are required to perform the academy jutsu otherwise they can't pass and its not like the Hyuuga have a separate school. They probably do know how to use the jutsu but are forbidden or taught to not use them. It is an intriguing thought though and I await to hear more from you.
 
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DJKS

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Too late bro. Hyugas are fodder at this point in the story.
 

SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO

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You are correct sir that the Sage is not the blood ancestor of all Shinobi

Viz
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Forefather: a person (especially a man) from an earlier time who helped to create or start something modern or important

Which in context means Founder

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Just like Jesus was the Forefather/Founder of Christianity but not the blood ancestor of Christians.

The Sage or his Mother most probably shared Chakra with people the same way Naruto shared Kurama's Chakra with the Alliance, and these people from ancient times he shared Chakra with became the ancestors of the present-day Shinobi Clans.
 
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Souji

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Wow.

So, think about it, linking this together... the Gentle Fist style focusing on the CLOSING/DISRUPTION OF CHAKRA POINTS that prevent the performing of ninjutsu...

... could the Hyuga have developed their style to combat this "heresy", as you theorize ninjutsu is, Aim?

... there are many questions.
 

Deviation

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Wow.

[highlight]So, think about it, linking this together... the Gentle Fist style focusing on the CLOSING/DISRUPTION OF CHAKRA POINTS that prevent the performing of ninjutsu...

... could the Hyuga have developed their style to combat this "heresy", as you theorize ninjutsu is, Aim?[/highlight]

... there are many questions.

I really like how you said that. It got me to thinking about Aim's post and actually brings them together. Nice.
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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Again, that was nice brilliant thread however the Hyuga were able to perform ninjutsu such as substitution no jutsu but most of your argument that you point out is valid.

Wow.

So, think about it, linking this together... the Gentle Fist style focusing on the CLOSING/DISRUPTION OF CHAKRA POINTS that prevent the performing of ninjutsu...

... could the Hyuga have developed their style to combat this "heresy", as you theorize ninjutsu is, Aim?

... there are many questions.

Oh wow!! Nice one, I never thought of this, this solves the whole puzzles!! I really hope Kishi would reveal the Hyuga clans as it plays the pivotal role of this series

+rep =)
 

Gyakusetsu

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A very nice read. I especially liked the part that despite the knowledge that using chakra goes against nature, that it could be reasoned that it had become a part of nature. This is the paradox. How can anything that exists go against nature? Only ego makes such distinctions.

I'll use another analogy to express the point. In Star Trek there is the Prime Directive. It is a policy that limits any contact with civillizations below a certain threshold of advancement. The purpose is to prevent internal turmoil and undue influence that would obstruct the natural progression of that culture. The hypocrisy is that contact with a potentially highly advanced civilization is the natural progression for that society. In fact, societal influence has always been a part of every culture regardless of technological advancement. To assume otherwise is arrogance.

So relating this to balance and the Tao, it is pointless to assume that you are attempting to preserve the natural state because to do so you must make decisions about what is right and what is wrong to maintain that balanced state. Right and wrong are matters of ones own perception, which has flawed reasoning. The taoists saw the trap and this gives rise to their advice to "do nothing".
 
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OMGitsShakra

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that actually is very fitting, especially with the comment about being able to cut off the chakra points. They are a seriously old clan, supposedly older than the uchiha, well if the sons were "senju" and "uchiha" i wonder if the hyuga come close to have formed during their time.
 

Oksus

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Sorry but Uchiha and Senju made Hyuga their *****.


They are irrelevant to the plot, and while you have a nice theory it's pointless to even think about Hyuga at this point in Manga. If they were ever to be expanded upon it would of have had been after chunnin exams.
 
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Aim64C

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Sorry but Uchiha and Senju made Hyuga their *****.


They are irrelevant to the plot, and while you have a nice theory it's pointless to even think about Hyuga at this point in Manga. If they were ever to be expanded upon it would of have had been after chunnin exams.

Just like if Danzo were important, he would have been expanded upon in Part 1.

Perhaps Kishimoto will never fully delve into the Hyuuga. Perhaps he will. Speculation about an obscure portion of the 'Naruto Lore' is infinitely more entertaining and useful than:

"Itachi solos low diff."

"No, Goku does."

"He's not in this anime, dumbass."

"If Itachi was such a badass, why is he an edo in most of the panels we see him in?"

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!"

There are enough threads for toddlers around here to see an Edo die of old age. Though I do thank you for commenting, and therefor staving off the time where my thread will be buried by meaningless banter.

Which is somewhat hypocritical, as this post is largely made with the knowledge that it is done both in vain and in spite - which is little better than meaningless banter.

I do thank those of you who left constructive comments, though.
 

SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO

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I believe that after the war, in the dawn of the new world, Naruto must travel the world spreading the new gospel of the Inner Path to peace, Hinata accompanying him at his side, leaving Sasuke in care of Konoha as Hokage with Sakura at his side.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Just like if Danzo were important, he would have been expanded upon in Part 1.

Perhaps Kishimoto will never fully delve into the Hyuuga. Perhaps he will. Speculation about an obscure portion of the 'Naruto Lore' is infinitely more entertaining and useful than:

"Itachi solos low diff."

"No, Goku does."

"He's not in this anime, dumbass."

"If Itachi was such a badass, why is he an edo in most of the panels we see him in?"

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!"

There are enough threads for toddlers around here to see an Edo die of old age. Though I do thank you for commenting, and therefor staving off the time where my thread will be buried by meaningless banter.

Which is somewhat hypocritical, as this post is largely made with the knowledge that it is done both in vain and in spite - which is little better than meaningless banter.

I do thank those of you who left constructive comments, though.

Sig worthy.
 

Oksus

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I believe that after the war, in the dawn of the new world, Naruto must travel the world spreading the new gospel of the Inner Path to peace, Hinata accompanying him at his side, leaving Sasuke in care of Konoha as Hokage with Sakura at his side.

Kishi just doesn't seem like a writer who would do something like that... Naruto will most likely become the Hokage :p


Just like if Danzo were important, he would have been expanded upon in Part 1.

Perhaps Kishimoto will never fully delve into the Hyuuga. Perhaps he will. Speculation about an obscure portion of the 'Naruto Lore' is infinitely more entertaining and useful than:

"Itachi solos low diff."

"No, Goku does."

"He's not in this anime, dumbass."

"If Itachi was such a badass, why is he an edo in most of the panels we see him in?"

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!"

There are enough threads for toddlers around here to see an Edo die of old age. Though I do thank you for commenting, and therefor staving off the time where my thread will be buried by meaningless banter.

Which is somewhat hypocritical, as this post is largely made with the knowledge that it is done both in vain and in spite - which is little better than meaningless banter.

I do thank those of you who left constructive comments, though.

Why so defensive ?
Wouldn't you say the same thing as I have if I said that Kishimoto is going to expand on Kimimaro's clan ?
Or Sarutobi's clan ?
Or Jugo's clan ?

I mean it's obviously not going to happen, no need to get so butt-hurt when someone points it out to you.

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!" - How is that even relevant ? I think you have some frustration built up inside, you oughta release that Lol
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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Kishi just doesn't seem like a writer who would do something like that... Naruto will most likely become the Hokage :p




Why so defensive ?
Wouldn't you say the same thing as I have if I said that Kishimoto is going to expand on Kimimaro's clan ?
Or Sarutobi's clan ?
Or Jugo's clan ?

I mean it's obviously not going to happen, no need to get so butt-hurt when someone points it out to you.

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!" - How is that even relevant ? I think you have some frustration built up inside, you oughta release that Lol


It's funny how the Hyuga clan shrouded in mystery are the most Relevant in the series
 
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Aim64C

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Kishi just doesn't seem like a writer who would do something like that... Naruto will most likely become the Hokage :p

Can the Hokage bring peace to the world as the leader of one specific village? Or will that simply promote an environment of favoritism?

Why so defensive ?
Wouldn't you say the same thing as I have if I said that Kishimoto is going to expand on Kimimaro's clan ?
Or Sarutobi's clan ?
Or Jugo's clan ?

No, I wouldn't. I never said that Kishimoto would do anything. Nor do I fully expect him to explain the origins of the Hyuuga.

I mean it's obviously not going to happen, no need to get so butt-hurt when someone points it out to you.

Why bother to kill off Neji while saving Hinata?

Why bother to spare Hinata at the hands of Pain?

Why involve the Hyuuga in plot-shifting events that no other clan has played such an intrinsic role in (spare for the Senju, Uzumaki, and Uchiha - who seem to be at the center of everything)?

The Hyuuga continue to play a pivotal, but uncelebrated role in shaping the course of events. Who has been by involved in every major character-developing stage of Naruto since the mission to Wave? Hinata. Out of nowhere - Hinata streams in and keeps Naruto on the right path.

"You shut up, Naru-Hinatard!" - How is that even relevant ? I think you have some frustration built up inside, you oughta release that Lol

You obviously don't pay much attention to what others write.
 
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