[Question] Who is stronger Pica or Diamante?

[Love Cook]

But can't you show me the page exactly? Because i don't remember. The closest thing i found is him stating he was his oldest friend, not his right hand man

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And no Dressrosa does draw inspiration to Spain. It's not something i'm speculating around here since it was stated by Oda himself in the SBS volume 72

I don't have time to go through all those pages, to look for it. I recall it was in a conversation with Law. But this was on the Wiki:
"Vergo was stated to be Donquixote Doflamingo's most beneficial and trustworthy Marine officer."

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And, don't start your sentence with NO, if you clearly don't know where the Mediterranean region is located, It stretches from Spain to Turkey, so it also includes Spain, but Dressrosa is not soley based on Spain, since there are also some Italian, and even Greek influences in Dressrosa. I don't know if Oda did that because he doesn't know the difference that well, like people in the west often confuse korean stuff with Japanese stuff. Or that he wanted to show multiple cultures.

 

[Fireplay]

At this point it seems like Diamante iis the 2nd strongest/Vice-captain if you may.

 

[Hijey]

No way to tell now. For now, I'm gonna go with Pica being Doflamingo's strongest subordinate. It's common Zoro fights the strongest enemy after Luffy and Pica appears to have the spade seat which usually is the strongest card piece. I think it goes something like this:

Pica/Diamante > Diamante/Pica ~ Vergo > Trebol.

 

[Love Cook]

No way to tell now. For now, I'm gonna go with Pica being Doflamingo's strongest subordinate. It's common Zoro fights the strongest enemy after Luffy and Pica appears to have the spade seat which usually is the strongest card piece. I think it goes something like this:

Pica/Diamante > Diamante/Pica ~ Vergo > Trebol.

You just decided to skip the rest of the thread so you can repeat arguments that were already debunked ?

1) Vergo was DD #2 guy as stated on PH
2) Therefor your Zoro theory about him fighting the second already doesn't fly anymore
3) There is no order in suits of cards

and I give you a bonus one, Sabo was always picture with Ace to be miles ahead as a kid compared to Luffy. If Sabo was able to keep that gap under Dragon's supervision he would still be stronger than Luffy (and also Zoro), Jesus Burgess is the second in command from BB's ship, Bartolomeo is a new generation supernova and they're all fighting against Diamante, and Rebecca is also thrown into the mix.

It highly appears that Diamante is the second strongest from the card seat, judging from all the panels DD had communication with him to plan a strategy accordingly. He is also leader of the army faction, and organizes the tournament every time and wins every time, he is also trusted with the mera mera no mi.

What do we know about Pica ? Nothing. It's not even sure IF zoro will fight that guy. So there is absolutely no argument in favor of Pica instead of a gut feeling in comparison to Diamante, who has a few things working in favor of him.

 

[Bogard]

I don't have time to go through all those pages, to look for it. I recall it was in a conversation with Law. But this was on the Wiki:
"Vergo was stated to be Donquixote Doflamingo's most beneficial and trustworthy Marine officer."

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And, don't start your sentence with NO, if you clearly don't know where the Mediterranean region is located, It stretches from Spain to Turkey, so it also includes Spain, but Dressrosa is not soley based on Spain, since there are also some Italian, and even Greek influences in Dressrosa. I don't know if Oda did that because he doesn't know the difference that well, like people in the west often confuse korean stuff with Japanese stuff. Or that he wanted to show multiple cultures.

I don't get it. Where does it say it's his strongest subordinate? I don't know the source of the sentence, but this is what it says

"Vergo was stated to be Donquixote Doflamingo's most beneficial and trustworthy Marine officer."

Most Beneficial = Most advantageous, or Most helpful
Most trustworthy = Most reliable, or dependable

In both words or synonyms, where do you find a strength comparison?

Besides that, it says most beneficial and trustworthy marine officer. You completely missed the end of the sentence? It's the marine officer he trust the most according to this sentence. The suits aren't part of the marines, so they are not even included

 

[Love Cook]

I don't get it.

Yea, that much was obvious.

I already told you I wasn't going to all the pages to look for one text balloon where it was literally stated. But also with this sentence if you read between the lines, if someone is his most reliable soldier, that would also mean that he is someone who always will get the job done. So it has to be someone with immense strength, why else would you not send you strongest henchmen to a dangerous island alone ?

But that point aside, so that sentence was about the tons of marine officials Doflamingo had under his wing. Oh wait he only had one >.>

 

[Bogard]

Yea, that much was obvious.

I already told you I wasn't going to all the pages to look for one text balloon where it was literally stated. But also with this sentence if you read between the lines, if someone is his most reliable soldier, that would also mean that he is someone who always will get the job done. So it has to be someone with immense strength, why else would you not send you strongest henchmen to a dangerous island alone ?

But that point aside, so that sentence was about the tons of marine officials Doflamingo had under his wing. Oh wait he only had one >.>

Well if you can't find the page, who can? If you can't show me the page, where is the proof that sentence of yours even exist in the manga? Doflamingo also doesn't need to have tons of marine officers under his command to trust some. Shichibukais are natural allies of the marines. Anyway i'm starting to think that either you're trolling or that sentence of yours not even exist, but for some unknown reasons you want to persuade yourself that Vergo is the strongest

 

[LitzSabr]

Between Diamante and Pica. Diamante as of now seems/probably is the stronger one. Like @TBogard said early on, Viola, despite being sure if defeating doflamingo thought that they won't be able to handle Pica if he arrived. Now that's certainly not because Pica is stronger than Doffy because IMO he isn't. So it must be because of the location they are at right now that Pica would have an advantage of.
As for diamante, Doflamingo entrusted mera mera to diamante, he is the hero of the colosseum and never lost the tournament. All that implies that Diamante is the strongest from the card seats and second strongest from DD pirates.

You just decided to skip the rest of the thread so you can repeat arguments that were already debunked ?

1) Vergo was DD #2 guy as stated on PH
2) Therefor your Zoro theory about him fighting the second already doesn't fly anymore
3) There is no order in suits of cards
.

I am with the statement of Diamante being the strongest but Vergo is most definitely below the card seat holders strength wise. Law was 'going to' have the hearts seat. He was on that level and he defeated Vergo. Going by that, the other card seat holders, trebol, diamante and pica should be able to do that too. Of course All 4 can't be of the exact same strength but by their rank, they must be around the same level which is above vergo.

 

[Olorin]

Not saying Diamante isn't strong or what have you. But Oda always puts Zoro up against the enemies Number 2 or his right hand man. So I would have to say Pica for now. But from the looks of it from the Don family tree Pica, Diamante, Trevor, and even Law where all in the 4 card chairs. So until we see them all in action we cant really know for sure. One good thing thought Zoro has a bad ass enemy to fight now and I have been waiting to see him go all out since the time skip

Pica might be the opponent to the no. 2 SH but Diamante is in the ring with BB pirates first division commander Burgess and Sabo (who I'm quite certain is stronger than Luffy)

That logic doesnt fly here because
1. The SHs arent alone
2. Not all SHs are here

 

[Naruto D Luffy]

Diamente is stronger

 

[ToshiZO]

Vergo >= Diamante >= Pica > Trebol

I am with the statement of Diamante being the strongest but Vergo is most definitely below the card seat holders strength wise. Law was 'going to' have the hearts seat. He was on that level and he defeated Vergo. Going by that, the other card seat holders, trebol, diamante and pica should be able to do that too. Of course All 4 can't be of the exact same strength but by their rank, they must be around the same level which is above vergo.

That makes no sense, you've got it in reverse. Because Law was a reserved heart seat, and Doflamingo expected Vergo to stomp Law, this is hinting at Vergo > Seats.


Also theres the fact that Vergo is Doflamingos right hand

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Law would know he worked under DD.

 

[LitzSabr]

That makes no sense, you've got it in reverse. Because Law was a reserved heart seat, and Doflamingo expected Vergo to stomp Law, this is hinting at Vergo > Seats.


Also theres the fact that Vergo is Doflamingos right hand

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Law would know he worked under DD.

That's a good point but right now strength wise, Vergo can still be put under seats (or above as one might want to). The only thing is Law had a reserved hearts seat, he was going to be the owner of that seat. Now it's not confirmed, but IMO one needs to be really powerful, upto a certain level to become the owner of a seat. So, the other three who were already the owner of the seats, you can't say that they are below Vergo. Basically what I'm saying is that Doffy probably had in mind that 3 Seat owners>Law, probably by a small margin or whatsoever (but Law did beat Vergo so he was most likely up there with the three if we take seats>vergo).
Vergo Is the right hand man,.. doesn't really confirms if he is strength wise second too aside from authority.

 

[ToshiZO]

That's a good point but right now strength wise, Vergo can still be put under seats (or above as one might want to). The only thing is Law had a reserved hearts seat, he was going to be the owner of that seat. Now it's not confirmed, but IMO one needs to be really powerful, upto a certain level to become the owner of a seat. So, the other three who were already the owner of the seats, you can't say that they are below Vergo. Basically what I'm saying is that Doffy probably had in mind that 3 Seat owners>Law, probably by a small margin or whatsoever (but Law did beat Vergo so he was most likely up there with the three if we take seats>vergo).
Vergo Is the right hand man,.. doesn't really confirms if he is strength wise second too aside from authority.

Yea everything is basically speculation, so Vergo being the strongest imo is the most logical assumption based off of these hints. Also how many right hands have you seen that are not the second strongest in the crew?

 

[Bogard]

Also theres the fact that Vergo is Doflamingos right hand

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Thanks for the link. Didn't remember, but it seems to be a translation problem since he doesn't say the same thing in the CCC's script

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This website uses the CCC's script traduction and like you can see he says most important subordinate, not right hand man

 

[LitzSabr]

Yea everything is basically speculation, so Vergo being the strongest imo is the most logical assumption based off of these hints. Also how many right hands have you seen that are not the second strongest in the crew?

Most of the time, it's okay if you powerscale characters by rank, but this doesn't always work. We have a vice admiral (garp) who is stronger than an admiral. A pirate (WB) who tied in with Pirate King.
As seen in CCC's translation, Vergo was called 'the most important subordinate'. CCC script didn't mention that so there's no need for it but even if we take him as the right hand, it would still not guarantee him being second strength wise too.

 

[Olorin]

Just fyi, the Viz official translation about Vergo is ''most vital pawn''

 

[Hijey]

You just decided to skip the rest of the thread so you can repeat arguments that were already debunked ?

1) Vergo was DD #2 guy as stated on PH
2) Therefor your Zoro theory about him fighting the second already doesn't fly anymore
3) There is no order in suits of cards

and I give you a bonus one, Sabo was always picture with Ace to be miles ahead as a kid compared to Luffy. If Sabo was able to keep that gap under Dragon's supervision he would still be stronger than Luffy (and also Zoro), Jesus Burgess is the second in command from BB's ship, Bartolomeo is a new generation supernova and they're all fighting against Diamante, and Rebecca is also thrown into the mix.

It highly appears that Diamante is the second strongest from the card seat, judging from all the panels DD had communication with him to plan a strategy accordingly. He is also leader of the army faction, and organizes the tournament every time and wins every time, he is also trusted with the mera mera no mi.

What do we know about Pica ? Nothing. It's not even sure IF zoro will fight that guy. So there is absolutely no argument in favor of Pica instead of a gut feeling in comparison to Diamante, who has a few things working in favor of him.

Vergo was never said to be his strongest companion so my theory about Zoro fighting the strongest after the big bad guy of the arc, like always, is still in play. He is the oldest and most important subordinate which doesn't have to mean he is the strongest. Vergo is the only marine within the crew so he's the only one that can make sure the marines don't find out about the CC research, which is why he is the most important.

You and I both know Diamante is far too weak to fight all of those guys at the same time. Vergo, who you think is the strongest, is weaker than Law and Luffy/Law are more or less on par. It's a battle royale. Sabo alone would wipe the floor with Diamante(assuming he'd still be a hair weaker than Ace had he survived) so I imagine Diamante will be fighting Bartolomeo and Rebecca while Sabo takes care of Burgess. Spartan has won the monthly tournament 51 times and he was stomped by Luffy, so it doesn't really say much about Diamante winning it every time. Unless you're one of Doflamingo's men, escaping is next to impossible which is was their original plan, to trap Luffy.

Why won't Zoro be the one to fight him? Law is in a bad conditon and they need to get him asap. The likeliest thing to happen is that Luffy leaves Zoro to handle Pica and have hm catch up with them later. Also, why would Doflamingo sit idle by if Pica fights Luffy and Co? He's been taking the Strawhats very seriously ever since he lost Vergo. It's true we know nothing about Pica, but remember he was the last one revealed to us. Since he is the leader of the Special OPS Unit I suspect he might be so strong that if Doflamingo really wants a job to get done, Pica is the one he calls on.

 

[Love Cook]

Vergo was never said to be his strongest companion so my theory about Zoro fighting the strongest after the big bad guy of the arc, like always, is still in play. He is the oldest and most important subordinate which doesn't have to mean he is the strongest. Vergo is the only marine within the crew so he's the only one that can make sure the marines don't find out about the CC research, which is why he is the most important.

You and I both know Diamante is far too weak to fight all of those guys at the same time. Vergo, who you think is the strongest, is weaker than Law and Luffy/Law are more or less on par. It's a battle royale. Sabo alone would wipe the floor with Diamante(assuming he'd still be a hair weaker than Ace had he survived) so I imagine Diamante will be fighting Bartolomeo and Rebecca while Sabo takes care of Burgess. Spartan has won the monthly tournament 51 times and he was stomped by Luffy, so it doesn't really say much about Diamante winning it every time. Unless you're one of Doflamingo's men, escaping is next to impossible which is was their original plan, to trap Luffy.

Why won't Zoro be the one to fight him? Law is in a bad conditon and they need to get him asap. The likeliest thing to happen is that Luffy leaves Zoro to handle Pica and have hm catch up with them later. Also, why would Doflamingo sit idle by if Pica fights Luffy and Co? He's been taking the Strawhats very seriously ever since he lost Vergo. It's true we know nothing about Pica, but remember he was the last one revealed to us. Since he is the leader of the Special OPS Unit I suspect he might be so strong that if Doflamingo really wants a job to get done, Pica is the one he calls on.

You might as well copy and pasted Speculation Speculation Speculation Speculation and it would've been an more interesting read.

Only reason Law beat Vergo was because his DF allowed him too. I wonder if a physical fighter like Luffy would've penetrated Vergo's full haki form, as his normal form was enough for Sanji and Smoker to be done in.

Your theory about the special squad is made out of thin air, it might as well mean that he has some useful devil fruit tricks made to stall or trap.

Why Zoro won't fight ? I never said he wouldn't but Violet and Kin'emon are also still there, and never take a raging Luffy out of the calculation who also fought Blueno before he fought Lucci.

Vergo was suspected to bring in Law, a card seat, but the didn't expect this kind of growth from him. And it still doesn't make sense why you can be the most important marine in a group of 1 marines. He would automatically also be the worst.

You say you and I know both that Diamante is too weak, well please speak for yourself because I haven't sen him do anything yet, he is the unbeaten king of the Arena so he definitely is not a push over. And Spartan is not confirmed as Kyros, Kyros will most likely be the toy soldier.

And this is based on facts, not on air.

 

[ToshiZO]

Just fyi, the Viz official translation about Vergo is ''most vital pawn''

I will take your word for it.

Thanks for the link. Didn't remember, but it seems to be a translation problem since he doesn't say the same thing in the CCC's script

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This website uses the CCC's script traduction and like you can see he says most important subordinate, not right hand man

Most of the time, it's okay if you powerscale characters by rank, but this doesn't always work. We have a vice admiral (garp) who is stronger than an admiral. A pirate (WB) who tied in with Pirate King.
As seen in CCC's translation, Vergo was called 'the most important subordinate'. CCC script didn't mention that so there's no need for it but even if we take him as the right hand, it would still not guarantee him being second strength wise too.

Yea well if the Viz translation doesn't say that, then you are right. But like I said this is speculation, and even if he doesn't say right hand, there are two things that for me are hinting at Vergo being the strongest. 1.The fact that Vergo was expected to stomp a reserved heart seat. 2.The fact that Vergo is Doflamingo's oldest subordinate and most trusted subordinate. If he is not the right hand it is confirmed that he is atleast Doflamingo's oldest subordinate, just like Zoro is to Luffy and Rayleigh is to Roger. Thus out of all the speculation I think Vergo being the strongest is the most logical, but ofcourse it isn't confirmed.

@Hijey

Its funny you say Zoro fights the strongest to back your claim, where was he in Punk Hazard when Sanji fought Vergo and Zoro fought fodder Monet? Imo Diamante has been portrayed to be above Pica.

 

[kuramasage]

Since the arc began and for a long time, I was confident that Diamante was the strongest card seat. But, now I'm not so sure and if I had to pick I would be leaning towards Pica.
Also, I've always taught Vergo was the strongest Dofla subordinate and still do.