KCM Naruto vs Tobirama

Sendai Aka No Ou · Jan 30, 2014

So what you're saying is sasuke is the same speed as KCM Naruto? Ok then lol. The point is that Naruto wasn't trying to out speed sasuke, or are you just incapable of understanding that.

Not relevant. This some fan-fiction right here; why would Naruto not got as fast as possible?

Again you are acting like the third Raikage is slow, which he is not. It's impressive that Naruto hit him at all.

Now you're putting your own argument down. I shouldn't have to repeat myself: Naruto hit the Raikage as he landed.

You're talking about 3rd Raikage being in Tobiramas era, would he not have been a child in Tobiramas era.

Because he was. The second Raikage died whilst Tobirama was alive, unless you're trying to suggest that the hidden cloud went years without a Kage? Kin and Gin (the guys who most likely offed the 2nd and were probably killed by Tobirama.) even recognised him as the third Raikage.

Its relevant that it was a shadow clone because you people keep going on about Tobirama not being at full power, yet fail to acknowledge that Naruto wasn't at full power.

Give us people credit; we are debating someone as obtuse as yourself. Need in repeat myself again? A Kage Bushin divides power, not speed. Tobirama is different as his physical capabilities aren't as they were whilst he was alive.

Why should it even matter when Mu sensed Naruto. The manga scan already proves that Mu knew he was there. Flying out the way isn't hard is it now.

In other words you don't have a scan, in other words you made that up. Mū dodged as Naruto was just about to strike - that is a key point.

Defend your character but don't make ridiculous claims for him and make up all sorts of fanfiction.

As if it affects my argument in any shape or form.

Nagato The Sage · Jan 30, 2014

T Bogard said:
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Obito manhandled KCM Naruto in CQC and he isn't even Kakashi level

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I seriously see no difference between base Naruto and KCM Naruto in the area. He is terribly lacking there to hope winning this fight

Obito could use Kamui against Naruto and couldn't against Kakashi. Naruto wasn't using clones in that fight either.

Avinash012 · Jan 30, 2014

Touken said:
Unpredictable scenario? He'd already witnessed Juubito's speed first-hand whereas Tobirama and Hashirama's Mokuton bunshin had no idea of how fast Juubito was.

Now how would he have tagged Obito 5 times with a single shot? He clearly touched him seeing as you have to do that to place a Hiraishin seal on someone, which Tobirama did.

Obito is just standing infront of Tobirama and they are clearly expecting an attack from Obito but ya they have no Idea about his speed but in Naruto's case he attacked from underground.
Just throwing all of them towords his body can do fine,its not like they'll be attached to a single area on his body just because he throw them all at once.I still don't understand how Tobirama managed to tag them on the left part of Obito's body.

T Bogard said:
On the panel i've showed, Obito manhandled Naruto in CQC without using Kamui

He did it with Gunbai,it is not a taijutsu battle and he did the same to Kakashi as well.

My point still stands,Kakashi never managed to land a hit on Obito and samegoes for Guy so we can't say that Naruto's taijutsu is terrible as he managed to keep up with Uchiha Itachi in a pure taijutsu battle.
Btw I can't see those scans clearly,plz provide bigger scans.

Gold Lightning · Jan 30, 2014

Krazy Kaaant said:
Not relevant. This some fan-fiction right here; why would Naruto not got as fast as possible?

Now you're putting your own argument down. I shouldn't have to repeat myself: Naruto hit the Raikage as he landed.

Because he was. The second Raikage died whilst Tobirama was alive, unless you're trying to suggest that the hidden cloud went years without a Kage? Kin and Gin (the guys who most likely offed the 2nd and were probably killed by Tobirama.) even recognised him as the third Raikage.

Give us people credit; we are debating someone as obtuse as yourself. Need in repeat myself again? A Kage Bushin divides power, not speed. Tobirama is different as his physical capabilities aren't as they were whilst he was alive.

In other words you don't have a scan, in other words you made that up. Mū dodged as Naruto was just about to strike - that is a key point.

As if it affects my argument in any shape or form.

You're talking to me about fanfiction, a Tobirama fan? That is rich. The fact that you can't even answer a simple question "is Sasuke the same speed as KCM Naruto" just shows how you don't know what you are talking about.

So what, he hit him and that's that. It's because of Narutos pressure that put the Raikage in that position in the first place.

Gin/Kin know who the third Raikage but do we know how many more years the brothers lived after Tobirama's death? No, it's just speculation. For all we know, Madara didn't even know who the Third Raikage was, unless you have proof he does.

And Tobirama wasn't at full power, so if you're saying Naruto's speed wasn't affected then Tobirama's shouldn't have been either. Naruto's shunshin relies on his KCM, if he divides his power then why shouldn't his speed not be affected. We saw Tsunade compare Naruto's KCM to the yellow flash. Naruto dodged Ay's full speed punch, who only Minato was capable of doing (Minato is faster than Tobirama) and Naruto dodged it too, so KCM's speed is perfectly exceptional.

Why should I need to show you a scan which clearly shows Ohnoki noting that Mu is a sensor. Kishi was hinting that an attack from behind was never going to hit Mu. Naruto wasn't even running at him, he was airborne. Naruto wasn't using body flicker or going full speed, he just jumped at Mu, gosh. So stop exaggerrating Mu's spped, it was a simple evade.

Sendai Aka No Ou · Jan 30, 2014

Gold Lightning; if you insist on resorting to petty insults that hold no weight in this debate and don't stop crying I'm not going to take you seriously. I'm willing to forgive your previous offences and ignore your rather tragic debating history, but I must insist you stay relevant to the topic. Again, no tears please, it's only fictional drawings.

Will refute later.

Gold Lightning · Jan 30, 2014

Krazy Kaaant said:
Gold Lightning; if you insist on resorting to petty insults that hold no weight in this debate and don't stop crying I'm not going to take you seriously. I'm willing to forgive your previous offences and ignore your rather tragic debating history, but I must insist you stay relevant to the topic. Again, no tears please, it's only fictional drawings.

Will refute later.

What insult lol, if you're getting upset then leave. I don't want your forgiveness considering it means garbage to me. I am on topic, you done trying to make yourself feel good. There's nothing wrong with anything I've said, you want to mock my debating then fine, doesn't change the fact that you are making some ridiculous arguments.

Sendai Aka No Ou · Jan 30, 2014

Gold Lightning said:
What insult lol, if you're getting upset then leave. I don't want your forgiveness considering it means garbage to me. I am on topic, you done trying to make yourself feel good. There's nothing wrong with anything I've said, you want to mock my debating then fine, doesn't change the fact that you are making some ridiculous arguments.

I'm not getting upset; only that you seem to be upset so much you would try to attack me directly to supplement for your lack of credible arguments. If you don't know what you're debating about then don't bother. Instead of trying to apply your own logic to scenarios please recognise it falls flat before actual manga facts. And I must insist you don't make things up, like:

Mū detected Naruto long before he hit

As you have zero proof of this then leave it be. For me to take you seriously you need to stop appealing to every conditional argument you can, such as the Raikage not existing around Tobirama's time, even though it's glaringly obvious he was, or that Naruto just wasn't using his full speed

Minator93 · Jan 30, 2014

Tobirama takes this U_U

KingHashirama · Jan 30, 2014

Tobirama Senju.

Ababeel · Jan 30, 2014

Naruto stomps low difficult. Tobirama does not stand the smallest chance.

Sendai Aka No Ou · Jan 30, 2014

[You're talking to me about fanfiction, a Tobirama fan? That is rich. The fact that you can't even answer a simple question "is Sasuke the same speed as KCM Naruto" just shows how you don't know what you are talking about.

Not quite sure of the relevance of the first sentence. Did you ever ask that question in the first place? The answer is obvious they're roughly the same speed.

So what, he hit him and that's that. It's because of Narutos pressure that put the Raikage in that position in the first place.

Ignoring a point addressed at least two times before.

Gin/Kin know who the third Raikage but do we know how many more years the brothers lived after Tobirama's death? No, it's just speculation. For all we know, Madara didn't even know who the Third Raikage was, unless you have proof he does.

Mū and the Mizukage knew who he was - both knew Tobirama. Again, I've addressed this. Are you really trying to suggest that the hidden cloud would go without a Kage for years upon years until Tobirama died? What happened when Hashirama died? Tobirama took over. What happened when Tobirama took over? Hiruzen took over and so on.

And Tobirama wasn't at full power, so if you're saying Naruto's speed wasn't affected then Tobirama's shouldn't have been either. Naruto's shunshin relies on his KCM, if he divides his power then why shouldn't his speed not be affected. We saw Tsunade compare Naruto's KCM to the yellow flash. Naruto dodged Ay's full speed punch, who only Minato was capable of doing (Minato is faster than Tobirama) and Naruto dodged it too, so KCM's speed is perfectly exceptional.

This relates back to when you , on a Tobirama vs Minato thread, descended to a petty argument of "Minato does exactly what Tobirama does". It's laughable and pathetic, I can't take you seriously.

Edo Tensei = reduced physical capability. Kage Bushin = Division of Chakra, nothing else.

Why should I need to show you a scan which clearly shows Ohnoki noting that Mu is a sensor. Kishi was hinting that an attack from behind was never going to hit Mu. Naruto wasn't even running at him, he was airborne. Naruto wasn't using body flicker or going full speed, he just jumped at Mu, gosh. So stop exaggerrating Mu's spped, it was a simple evade.

Clearly this man knows nothing about the burden of proof. So you admit you were making up non-existent points? Mū may have been aware of it but he waited until the last moment to dodge, that is a feat. Naruto launched himself at him in the air and Mū dodged, that's all there is to it.

You've yet to counter one single point, so I'll give you one more chance before I move on from this thread.

Gold Lightning · Jan 30, 2014

Krazy Kaaant said:
I'm not getting upset; only that you seem to be upset so much you would try to attack me directly to supplement for your lack of credible arguments. If you don't know what you're debating about then don't bother. Instead of trying to apply your own logic to scenarios please recognise it falls flat before actual manga facts. And I must insist you don't make things up, like:

As you have zero proof of this then leave it be. For me to take you seriously you need to stop appealing to every conditional argument you can, such as the Raikage not existing around Tobirama's time, even though it's glaringly obvious he was, or that Naruto just wasn't using his full speed

Please do move on, why should I debate with someone who thinks Sasuke is the same speed as KCM Naruto. You aren't worth my time anymore either. Your debating is bull crap, half the things you say is speculation and fanfiction. You're biased beyond belief when it comes to Tobirama so this is a waste of time.

BlacLord™ · Jan 30, 2014

Tobirama wins.

Muu sensed and dodged an attack from KCM Naruto behind him, now add potentially better sensing skills, the joint sharpest reaction times in the series, FTG and Kage Bunshin.

miromiro · Jan 30, 2014

Tobirama takes this.

Murasame · Jan 30, 2014

Touken said:
He tagged him 5 times. He could have easily dodged that attack if he wanted to. KCM Naruto barely had the time to flinch when Juubito blitzed him.

lol @ Kaant saying Minato fanboys talk more about Tobirama than Tobirama fanboys. Honestly, this hate on a character is getting ridiculous now.

So because he tagged him 5 times he could've dodged his attack? Lol thats funny.

Touken · Jan 30, 2014

-Uzumaki Naruto- said:
So because he tagged him 5 times he could've dodged his attack? Lol thats funny.

Know what's funny? You insinuating it takes longer to side-step than to tag a person 5 times.

Murasame · Jan 30, 2014

Touken said:
Know what's funny? You insinuating it takes longer to side-step than to tag a person 5 times.

No whats funny is that you think that Tobirama's hand movements=him using foot speed to dodge Obito's blitz. All that scan proved is that Tobirama has hand speed so fast that he can tag you without you noticing.

Smd · Jan 30, 2014

tobirama mid diff

Ababeel · Jan 30, 2014

People seriously think Tobirama stand a chance? :|
He can't even handle Kin/Gin whom they have only a little tiny bit of Kurama's chakra. :erm:

Even If Naruto did not try to defend himself, what can Tobirama realistically accomplish against him?
Yeah, Tobirama has 3 water jutsus, that's great and all, but what is that going to do against Naruto?
Are his jutsus stronger than the like of these?