Hiruzen and Itachi vs DSM Kabuto

[AGoodBoy]

Izanami GG because really, that's the best option.

With having full knowledge, you're basically repeating the already-done fight except you're changing EMS Sasuke for a weaker partner.

@AGoodBoy Your scans in the outspeeding Sasuke section isn't the feat he had, in your provided scans, Sasuke is seen reacting to Itachi's assault, it was

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But the whole fight was just them getting on top of each other over and over again anyway. (Sexual connotation not intended.)

I had that scan also but I removed it because I didn't want him to say "that was during genjutsu"

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I'm just going to ignore your genjutsu counter because you can't even state how SM boosts tayuya to the levels of being unable to bind shikamaru to being able binding itachi. It's just speculation and denial.

Seriously.. This can't get any more wrong:

-I already proved to you how Tayuya Genjutsu works(Post #58 ,3.), and how Shikimaru already admitted that he will not get the second chance to break out the way he did last time.

-We already establish on, when I broke down, how Sage Mode boost effects works and how Curse Mode boost effects works. Which you already concede.

-Already debunked your claim that Ranking=power. is wrong. When it has been proven wrong countless of time, which I proved(post #58, 5.). What even dig a bigger whole in your claim is that Kabuto's Temple of Nivara is a A rank Genjutsu. Every elite ninja and even genin Sakura was able to Kai the effect[

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]. And guess who else broke it? Yup Shikimaru[

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].

- And to conclude it at, @bold, your still saying Kabuto's use/effect is the same as if Tayuya were to use it in CM2, and that Shikimaru can break Kabuto's too... (Sigh)

This keeps getting worst and worst of trying to counter.

Sawarbi no mei

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I already countered this. Lee was able to react to this. Gaara was able to react to this.
They were both leagues slower than itachi( see: speed feats ).

All itachi does is dodged the spikes as the rise, then stand on one the same way ninja can walk up

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,

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, etc. When kabuto pops out of bone to

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, itachi simply

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and

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. Kabuto's end is already near.

If you really want, Itachi can just clear it with a susano'o slash. But, of course, that's what you want to hear because then you can say "MS strain", "stamina". So, this is option B, option A is more viable.

Itachi has no reason to have susano'o up before this launches; He's alive, he doesn't have the nonchallance of being an edo where he could just squander MS techs with no reserves. Alive itachi simply doesn't camp MS like his edo form, after all Itachi survived years, with MS, without going blind, while in an S-class criminal group, while fighting against other S-class opponents. Sasuke survived less than a week with his MS.

First of all the jutsu comes out unpredictable more then it's actual speed feat. Which is why Itachi was dumbfound when seeing it the first time, which he didn't even bother to budget to move. Anyway, yes Itachi does have good reaction and speed so he will just jump. But you have forgotten how Gaara had to use a Sand Platform in the first place, and for Lee. It was to secure that any bones don't pop up, and ruin their landing. Your premise seem to think that Itachi will jump in time, and land perfectly on a bone with the bones being perfectly motionless. Escapially when they are craved to where you can't land, according to how Kimmimaro's bones look compare to part 1 series (when it didn't look sharp.[

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][

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]

Using this jutsu wasn't meant in my premise, to kill Itachi. But to take over the battle field. Your premise was that Kabuto comes out of no where to stab a feint clone, to start Izanami:

Your first mistake was to assume Kabuto will do a frontal attack. Itachi shown working by him personally approaching Kabuto to look in his face. Kabuto will be back stabbing him, having Itachi turn his head around alot.

Second, Kabuto was shown falling for the fient twice through distraction. 1. Trying to pick up the sword to save himself. 2. Sasuke gets in the way, and Itachi took advantage of the smoke. All of these gave Itachi openings to feint Kabuto. That is not working in his condition here.

With field advantage, Kabuto can summon his Spider[

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] and have all them attack Itachi in his limited space,[

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] each hit[

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] Itachi uses against the spider, busted out sticky webs. Which slowly immobilizes him.

Also, The Doki Spirits can phase through all the bones and go straight after Itachi.

Doton Doro

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The guy has to put his palms on the ground. Wait for earth to encircle his opponent. Then wait for the dome to form above them.

Itachi simply jumps out of this before it completes. Stating otherwise is stating this jutsu can catch sasuke, naruto, bee, ay, etc etc etc.
see speed feats

You tried your best to make it as slow as possible even Yamato was able to do the same thing to Sasukes god like speed, who needed to break out[

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].

Anyway lets look at my full premise again on how to catch him:

1.Muki Tensei can help scribble the ground. The way Kabuto has shown using it, he can force Itachi to use chakra stick on the ground, so he won't be dis balance the ground moving up and down. Once he does that he can trap him. If Itachi jumps, he waits until he lands, which is even better to time.

Jirobo's ability to create short earthquake[

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]. Once dis balance, he can use it.

Doki Spirits

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Itachi just dodges these; see speed feats. They're not fast, and the doki demons aren't under the effect of SM. They're completely independent summons, as fodder as they were in part 1.
Your premise relied on 'going under susano'o' Which implies itachi will have susano'o up to fight extremely slow, extremely weak ghosts. Itachi's shown speeds around the level of V1 ay, Bee, kcm naruto, Sasuke, kakashi, etc. These ghosts can now touch them also...?

These ghosts just get fodderized. Itachi has 0 reason to have susano'o up at this point; It's not one of the scenarios that require it.

Understand how effective this jutsu can be in Kabuto's hands (in Spoiler):

Spoiler

Senpō: Doki: Makyō no Ran | Exploit #2

Spoiler

終曲第九節・魔境の乱

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---

After transplanting Tayuya's DNA to himself, Kabuto has gained Tayuya's abilities such as the Mateki: Mugen Onsa. [

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→

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] This also means that he has gained access to Tayuya's Kuchiyose; the Doki. [

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] These Doki possess strenght that allows them to swing huge weapons which can easily crush a big tree branch. [

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] They also seem to be quite fast. [

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→

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] It took a while for Shikamaru to figure out the melody of the flute [

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] in order to learn the Doki's attack pattern, however, Tayuya has shown the ability to just change the melody and confuse the enemy just like Shikamaru was confused. [

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→

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] Kabuto can do the same thing against his opponents so that they can't figure out the Doki's attack pattern.

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Anyways, what makes these Doki extremely dangerous is not their speed or strenght, it's the Makyō no Ran technique. It works by releasing three ethereal worms that feed on the enemy's physical energy [

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], making them unable to use Chakra. [

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] They cannot be blocked because they are ethereal and they will easily pass throught physical objects such as a tree [

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] or Shuriken. [

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] Shikamaru managed to escape the danger of these worms by using smoke bombs and the enviroment to hide himself so that Tayuya doesn't know where he is. [

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] Fortunately, Sennin Mōdo grants Kabuto the ability to sense. [

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][

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] He can also sense body heat with his snakes. [

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] So hiding from him is not an option since he can sense the enemy anyways.

The weakness of the Doki is that the enemy can attack it's summoner in order to stop them [

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], however, fortunately for Kabuto, he doesn't have this weakness unlike Tayuya. It was even immensly difficult to attack Tayuya directly while the Doki were out as stated by Shikamaru [

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] so attacking Kabuto directly isn't really gonna happen. Why is it hard to attack Kabuto directly? Because not only can he sense you getting close [In other words; sneak attacks won't work], Sennin Mōdo also immensly increases his speed and perception as seen when he was capable of evading Sasuke's Susano'o Arrow [

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→

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] and Chidori Eisō without much difficulty. [

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] And he was also capable of blitzing Itachi. [

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→

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]

The only option left is to try and absorb the ethereal worms since they are made out of Chakra, but since Kabuto can simply transfer Senjutsu to them, making them a Senpō, this won't really be really an intelligent move either.

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Summoning

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This is useless. They get

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and used against kabuto.
Kabuto either has to

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them, or go out of his way to break the genjutsu on them while itachi's already attacking him. That's impractical that kabuto's going to go fight manda 2, just to break a genjutsu, while itachi's fighting. Especially considering as soon as kabuto dispels the genjutsu, itachi can just re-apply it.

Summonings are useless.

Kabuto method of his Summonings much different then Sasuke and Orochimaru[

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][

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][3]<-Common snakes to even use brille, to block out their eyes. Genjutsu is not working as it happen canonically.

Kidomaru

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Honestly, out in the open, he just dodged this( see: speed feats).
Even Neji was able to

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some of it, and neji's a stationary fighter with a 3 point speed. PEople like itachi, minato(no ftg), naruto, bee, sasuke, ay, are all around the same speed margin. If this can catch itachi, then, basically, kidomaru can catch all these guys.

Or, Itachi can just use amaterasu like manga. That way you can use "MS strain", "stamina" as a defence.

I like how you didn't want to post the whole context of the battle of Neji dodging them. In the end it caught Neji. Not only they you forgot its being use for a Sage user, with better precision.

Amateraru can only block one so no.

Final point to note; The only attack in kabuto's entire arsenal which definitely needs susano'o out in the open is...

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because it's too crippling for itachi to be able to move and defend himself.

- Sound gen is broken.
- Muki tensei is easily dodged in the open because there's no ceiling to 'sandwich'
- Sound 5 jutsu's are all dodged
- Orochimaru is dodged
- Even

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scenario is impossible. Notice how, page before, itachi drops his susano'o while standing right in the mouth of orochimaru. Plot induced stupidity like this only works to advance the plot. Someone like Itachi who's touted for intelligence won't do something like this normally. That's like kabuto, someone else touted for intelligence, while standing right infront of itachi, drops his defences and 'prepares a jutsu'.

Nothing needs to be said in this conclusion.

Izanami GG because really, that's the best option.

With having full knowledge, you're basically repeating the already-done fight except you're changing EMS Sasuke for a weaker partner.

@AGoodBoy Your scans in the outspeeding Sasuke section isn't the feat he had, in your provided scans, Sasuke is seen reacting to Itachi's assault, it was

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But the whole fight was just them getting on top of each other over and over again anyway. (Sexual connotation not intended.)

Interesting, Izanami working in a full knowledge scenario.

 

[AGoodBoy]

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Spoiler

Interesting, Izanami working in a full knowledge scenario.

I'd just like to make a note that itachi's genjutsu have always worked even when opponents had knowledge on it. Furthermore, thanks for pointing out full knowledge(i've already forgotten conditions) because you just made this debate easier. In order to stop izanami, kabuto must literally find a way to kill itachi without ever touching him. If kabuto touches itachi even once,

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.... Can kabuto fight, or even win, without ever creating a loopable, connecting sensation? Nope.

First of all the jutsu comes out unpredictable more then it's actual speed feat. Which is why Itachi was dumbfound when seeing it the first time, which he didn't even bother to budget to move.

He now has full knowledge. He won't be dumbfounded because he knows the bones protrude from the ground. Also, I probably didn't make myself clear enough, the 'walking up tree/cliff' thing wasn't to say he can land on the top of a bone; What I was trying to state was that itachi jumps onto the side of a bone. If itachi were to latch himself onto one of the bones

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, he'd basically be safe from the entire lot as they

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. The deadliest part of bone forest isn't exactly the bones coming out, it's the fact kimi(kabuto in this case)

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- yes, fodder and some decent shinobi will get 1 shot by just the bone growth, that's true.

Not a clone. The real itachi who bursts into crows; Or possibly a last second crow feint. It's never been hinted that that was a pre-created clone. Itachi simply implements the jutsu on the fly.

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- Notice in the first panel kabuto's holding the sword. Next panel, the crows are removing it from his hand. Next panel, The sword's now being, basically, held by the swarm of crows. Next scan, A slash just

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right from the center of the swarm. It's in this same manner that itachi

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, against sasuke, without any handseals, without any prior-prep, and while he was busy doing something else [

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][

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]. I'm not going to stand here and say, "oh, itachi definitely did it this way", however that clone was definitely not preprepared. Kabuto had sage mode, he would have definitely

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two itachi.

Your first mistake was to assume Kabuto will do a frontal attack. Itachi shown working by him personally approaching Kabuto to look in his face. Kabuto will be back stabbing him, having Itachi turn his head around alot.

You mean on the bone forest? Fair enough, I didn't consider that, that's the most logical thing to do. Though, itachi will expect it.
Itachi can read people very well[

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][

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].

The doki spirits are again useless. Shikamaru was able to

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away from them. I'll come back to this later with your doki counter anyway...

As for the spiders. Itachi can simply hypnotize the mother thereby stopping the '

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'.
If he has no LoS on the mother and she births, a Simple

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should suffice. They're not that chakra intensive, as even

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could use them, and his chakra control was bad to the point that he couldn't climb a tree; meaning, he did this on his low genin reserves and poor chakra control. Also, the katons are quite powerful [

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][

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](note what zetsu says, not sasuke... Sasuke tanked bombs in CSV2 after all).

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No lol. My intentions weren't to make it seem extremely slow; It was to show the process takes time and itachi has speeds that pass sasuke's 'god speed' meaning something that takes a process like this has a low chance of being successful.

Anyway, Notice that yamato's implementation is different. He didn't need to touch the ground or do anything, they just sprung from the ground while sasuke had his sword with him.
With this dome, The user needs to touch the ground (clear sign an earth jutsu is about to be used), as we can see here, itachi was able to react to a cave muki tensei which leaves no room for evasion.

Anyway lets look at my full premise again on how to catch him:

1.Muki Tensei can help scribble the ground. The way Kabuto has shown using it, he can force Itachi to use chakra stick on the ground, so he won't be dis balance the ground moving up and down. Once he does that he can trap him. If Itachi jumps, he waits until he lands, which is even better to time.

Jirobo's ability to create short earthquake[1]. Once dis balance, he can use it.

I'll admit. By this logic, there's a possibility it can catch him. However, just copy past over why you think itachi can't break this so I don't write up a counter that you probably refuted already.
This was a good strategy.

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I don't see how fodder AC's 'hack' changes anything.

"can't attack tayuya/kabuto while they're around" Implies they're remotely as fast as itachi. Which they're not.
"can change the melody" Implies that would make a difference. Sure, he can keep switching the melodies, however, at the point tayuya switched the melody, she then brought out the spirits... which shikamaru still dodged.
"Hidding won't help" Implies itachi would need to hide from things slower than shikamaru - yes, the doki themselves are slower than shikamaru considering they could never successfully catch up to him.
"If they touch you, you can't use chakra". That's complete bullshit seeing as when they touch you they drain chakra, not somehow seal it away. If they manage to somehow, through some magic, touch itachi, he now has a little less chakra.

The biggest thing to take from this is that the doki are on the level of genin shikamaru. Now, what happens to itachi in the face of such a slow opponent?

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...

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.

These doki also have exactly 0 defence feats and, assuming they have better defence than other summonings their size is already a stretch. So, it's very safe to assume they'd die to things that would kill other beasts of comparable size. Especially considering a

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was effortlessly killed by itachi... probably with one of those exploding kunai in the first place.

Therefore, a simple

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kills them, or an

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finishes the job. Both require very little chakra and the doki don't have the necessary speed feats to evade. At the point sakura/naruto barely dodged

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, after it was cast from a considerable distance, they were both well above shikamaru in speed.

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There's no scan 3. So i'll wait for that because the other 2 didn't really prove anything to me.
This is about Manda 2 right? Manda 2 can surely be hypnotized unless 3rd scan has something there. Let's not forget itachi's already gone up against Snake-master-orochimaru. So he does have quite some knowledge on the whole snake thing...
Hidden shadow sleeve snakes... mmh... Those are an entirely different top all together. I'll counter everything when you post scan 3.

---

I know neji got caught. I know you know neji got caught. You think I'm trying to trick you? We both know that you know more about the sound 4 and kabuto than me Lol.
The point was to show that they are dodgeable by even someone who isn't an 'evasive' fighter or necessarily fast. With itachi's speed, dodging what neji dodged and the rest kido tossed would be a picknick(see: Itachi's speed).
In fact, take a look at Itachi's speed, point 6. Itachi was able to dash away 5+ body lengths (over 30 feet) before bee's scarf could fall, or before KCM naruto/bee could move an inch. That's way way way way faster than these webs. Considering KCM naruto blitzed kisame, kept pace with V1 Ay, etc.*

*don't want to post the scans...

Amaterasu would logically be used against the biggest of the big; something exceeding even

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- just look at the width in the bottom scan; It's a lot smaller than itachi's shushin distance. He can literally side blitz and dodge this.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

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I'd just like to make a note that itachi's genjutsu have always worked even when opponents had knowledge on it. Furthermore, thanks for pointing out full knowledge(i've already forgotten conditions) because you just made this debate easier. In order to stop izanami, kabuto must literally find a way to kill itachi without ever touching him. If kabuto touches itachi even once,

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.... Can kabuto fight, or even win, without ever creating a loopable, connecting sensation? Nope.

Kabuto has too many moves to touch him. The only way for it to be effective if he decided to replicate the same way he touched him the first time. In fact using Sakon to touch, for the first time, can just invade him body, ending the match.

He now has full knowledge. He won't be dumbfounded because he knows the bones protrude from the ground. Also, I probably didn't make myself clear enough, the 'walking up tree/cliff' thing wasn't to say he can land on the top of a bone; What I was trying to state was that itachi jumps onto the side of a bone. If itachi were to latch himself onto one of the bones

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, he'd basically be safe from the entire lot as they

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. The deadliest part of bone forest isn't exactly the bones coming out, it's the fact kimi(kabuto in this case)

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- yes, fodder and some decent shinobi will get 1 shot by just the bone growth, that's true.

Itachi is no midget, even if you read the scan of the bone having space. If you scale Itachi against the bones forest, there is no way that counter is effect, to be side ways against the bone layer. In fact even the shortest character can't make this counter effective.

Not a clone. The real itachi who bursts into crows; Or possibly a last second crow feint. It's never been hinted that that was a pre-created clone. Itachi simply implements the jutsu on the fly.

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- Notice in the first panel kabuto's holding the sword. Next panel, the crows are removing it from his hand. Next panel, The sword's now being, basically, held by the swarm of crows. Next scan, A slash just

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right from the center of the swarm. It's in this same manner that itachi

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, against sasuke, without any handseals, without any prior-prep, and while he was busy doing something else [

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][

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]. I'm not going to stand here and say, "oh, itachi definitely did it this way", however that clone was definitely not preprepared. Kabuto had sage mode, he would have definitely

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two itachi.

It was a feint bushin. As you already brought up of Itachi's efficiency of this. First scan, reason it was removed was because the bushin burst into crows. In the end Kabuto was able to land hits on Itachi, and every bushin that he fell for was when he wasn't focused on Itachi. So even with his super senses, Itachi's efficiency with bushin can still make it possible, if Kabuto is not directly focused on him.

You mean on the bone forest? Fair enough, I didn't consider that, that's the most logical thing to do. Though, itachi will expect it.
Itachi can read people very well[

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][

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].

It always easy to detect somebody who wants to kill you.

The doki spirits are again useless. Shikamaru was able to

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away from them. I'll come back to this later with your doki counter anyway...

You didn't read the scan correctly. He use smoke bombs and explosives to escape, blocking Tayuya view. It had nothing to do with speed.

As for the spiders. Itachi can simply hypnotize the mother thereby stopping the '

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'.
If he has no LoS on the mother and she births, a Simple

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should suffice. They're not that chakra intensive, as even

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could use them, and his chakra control was bad to the point that he couldn't climb a tree; meaning, he did this on his low genin reserves and poor chakra control. Also, the katons are quite powerful [

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][

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](note what zetsu says, not sasuke... Sasuke tanked bombs in CSV2 after all).

Spiders are kept long ranged and will be hidden with the field of bones so way no LoS. (can you even genjutsu bugs?).

Is he using Katon when they start appearing to him or talking about Katon barraging through the bone forest?

Anyway it will be a battle between how much she can birth and Itachi's Katon

I'll admit. By this logic, there's a possibility it can catch him. However, just copy past over why you think itachi can't break this so I don't write up a counter that you probably refuted already.
This was a good strategy.

-Considering the fact that this Dome will not be powered by Sage Mode, it will most likely have better durability, recovery, and faster chakra draining.

-Kabuto can also support the Dome with Muki Tensei, stretching out the Dome or closing it in[

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].

-Since Itachi has no items to replenish their chakra, like how Shikimaru's team did, the fight ends with this jutsu displayed.

"can't attack tayuya/kabuto while they're around" Implies they're remotely as fast as itachi. Which they're not.
"can change the melody" Implies that would make a difference. Sure, he can keep switching the melodies, however, at the point tayuya switched the melody, she then brought out the spirits... which shikamaru still dodged.
"Hidding won't help" Implies itachi would need to hide from things slower than shikamaru - yes, the doki themselves are slower than shikamaru considering they could never successfully catch up to him.
"If they touch you, you can't use chakra". That's complete bullshit seeing as when they touch you they drain chakra, not somehow seal it away. If they manage to somehow, through some magic, touch itachi, he now has a little less chakra.

Shikimaru did not use his speed to dodged them[

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]. He was reading Tayuya flute, which commands their movement. He already admitted that the those Doki had impressive offense and defense(Which also count as speed considering they instantly appear to protect Tayuya[

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>

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]). What he did was hit and hide, while paying attention to the flute's command.[

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].

So using Shikimaru's speed is taking out of context of avoiding the Doki, to prove your point.

You also didn't land advantage into consideration.

The biggest thing to take from this is that the doki are on the level of genin shikamaru. Now, what happens to itachi in the face of such a slow opponent?

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...

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.

Same as above

These doki also have exactly 0 defence feats and, assuming they have better defence than other summonings their size is already a stretch. So, it's very safe to assume they'd die to things that would kill other beasts of comparable size. Especially considering a

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was effortlessly killed by itachi... probably with one of those exploding kunai in the first place.

They are pretty bulky and can easily smash though tree it will take more what you are describing. Plus my focus are not using them offensive but their Spirit attack.

Therefore, a simple

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kills them, or an

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finishes the job. Both require very little chakra and the doki don't have the necessary speed feats to evade. At the point sakura/naruto barely dodged

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, after it was cast from a considerable distance, they were both well above shikamaru in speed.

Lol no, plus I already post their speed, which Shikimaru commented, with their defense also. Itachi shooting a Fire Ball, gets a spirit worm right though it and on Itachi

There's no scan 3. So i'll wait for that because the other 2 didn't really prove anything to me.
This is about Manda 2 right? Manda 2 can surely be hypnotized unless 3rd scan has something there. Let's not forget itachi's already gone up against Snake-master-orochimaru. So he does have quite some knowledge on the whole snake thing...
Hidden shadow sleeve snakes... mmh... Those are an entirely different top all together. I'll counter everything when you post scan 3.

Scan there was Kabuto using a snake attribute, blocking their eye sight, called "Brille." He did this to counter Itachi's genjutsu. All snakes have this, and by Kabuto's command, they can. Plus the first two scan showed what else they can do, with is strictly using their tongue to sense Itachi, which he didn't even bother hitting them with Genjutsu. Meaning that its effective counter, canonically.

I know neji got caught. I know you know neji got caught. You think I'm trying to trick you? We both know that you know more about the sound 4 and kabuto than me Lol.
The point was to show that they are dodgeable by even someone who isn't an 'evasive' fighter or necessarily fast. With itachi's speed, dodging what neji dodged and the rest kido tossed would be a picknick(see: Itachi's speed).
In fact, take a look at Itachi's speed, point 6. Itachi was able to dash away 5+ body lengths (over 30 feet) before bee's scarf could fall, or before KCM naruto/bee could move an inch. That's way way way way faster than these webs. Considering KCM naruto blitzed kisame, kept pace with V1 Ay, etc.*

Ok but that isn't helping him countering the webs since it will still be spammed, with Kabuto Sage precision on top of it.

Amaterasu would logically be used against the biggest of the big; something exceeding even

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- just look at the width in the bottom scan; It's a lot smaller than itachi's shushin distance. He can literally side blitz and dodge this.

He does this then [

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]. With another coming on its way[

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].
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there is:
-Orochimaru White Snake: If Itachi were to keep owning it, once cut, poison will vaporized into the air paralyzing Itachi.

-White Rage: Blocking all Itachi senses, since he can't see Kabuto move, Kabuto can easily take him out, even underground[

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][

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] or [

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] outta the ground.

 

[AGoodBoy]

i'll read and respond tomorrow. I'm too sleepy to make any sort of coherent argument Zzz

 

[Brother Numpsay]

i'll read and respond tomorrow. I'm too sleepy to make any sort of coherent argument Zzz

If only this was in a proper debate with judged and etc. It will just end when one of us just don't feel like responding anymore.

 

[Mellanoma]

Manga shows Itachi beating Kabuto... nothing should change except maybe adding Enma and 5 element ninjutsu

 

[VongolaX]

If you restrict ET, then itachi can beat DSM kabuto with inzanami or other uchiha kinjustus.

If not, Edo tensei sweeps

 

[HiddenSound]

Manga shows Itachi beating Kabuto... nothing should change except maybe adding Enma and 5 element ninjutsu

Funny... I seem to remember there was someone else in that battle... Some 17-year-old EMS user... Who saved Itachi's ass a few times... Oh well, probably no one.
OT: I'm leaning toward Hiruzen and Itachi... But I don't really know.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

DSM Kabuto.

Quite easily.

 

[Mellanoma]

Funny... I seem to remember there was someone else in that battle... Some 17-year-old EMS user... Who saved Itachi's ass a few times... Oh well, probably no one.
OT: I'm leaning toward Hiruzen and Itachi... But I don't really know.

lol well I did say instead of Sasuke Itachi would have someone with a super powerful summon and 5 elements + 1000 Genjutsu

 

[WolfHaley]

Manda II? ._.

 

[Mellanoma]

Manda II? ._.

Enma and Totsuka GG

 

[AGoodBoy]

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Spoiler

Spoiler

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Kabuto has too many moves to touch him. The only way for it to be effective if he decided to replicate the same way he touched him the first time. In fact using Sakon to touch, for the first time, can just invade him body, ending the match.





Itachi is no midget, even if you read the scan of the bone having space. If you scale Itachi against the bones forest, there is no way that counter is effect, to be side ways against the bone layer. In fact even the shortest character can't make this counter effective.



It was a feint bushin. As you already brought up of Itachi's efficiency of this. First scan, reason it was removed was because the bushin burst into crows. In the end Kabuto was able to land hits on Itachi, and every bushin that he fell for was when he wasn't focused on Itachi. So even with his super senses, Itachi's efficiency with bushin can still make it possible, if Kabuto is not directly focused on him.




It always easy to detect somebody who wants to kill you.



You didn't read the scan correctly. He use smoke bombs and explosives to escape, blocking Tayuya view. It had nothing to do with speed.



Spiders are kept long ranged and will be hidden with the field of bones so way no LoS. (can you even genjutsu bugs?).

Is he using Katon when they start appearing to him or talking about Katon barraging through the bone forest?

Anyway it will be a battle between how much she can birth and Itachi's Katon



-Considering the fact that this Dome will not be powered by Sage Mode, it will most likely have better durability, recovery, and faster chakra draining.

-Kabuto can also support the Dome with Muki Tensei, stretching out the Dome or closing it in[

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].

-Since Itachi has no items to replenish their chakra, like how Shikimaru's team did, the fight ends with this jutsu displayed.

Before they even used susano'o, the bones were already big enough to be classed as a

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. They're completely climbable. you don't need to be a midget.

And, the same way, itachi can just block out kabuto's vision to feint bushin again. Itachi has shadow clone jutsu if you didn't know. Shadow clones can use every technique of the original. Nothing's stopping itachi from having a clone repeat

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with

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; then

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.

You can genjutsu a pseudo-plant [

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- >

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]. A bug is more 'alive' than that, nothing's stopping genjutsu from working on it.
Itachi's going to use the katon to kill them. Considering he can

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, the minute that bug's summoned, he simply shuushins to it and either genjutsu's it, or burns it and it's bugs alive while it's 'birthing', or creates a clone and dispatches of the mother while the clone kills the rest.

---

Spoiler

Shikimaru did not use his speed to dodged them[

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]. He was reading Tayuya flute, which commands their movement. He already admitted that the those Doki had impressive offense and defense(Which also count as speed considering they instantly appear to protect Tayuya[

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>

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]). What he did was hit and hide, while paying attention to the flute's command.[

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].

So using Shikimaru's speed is taking out of context of avoiding the Doki, to prove your point.

You also didn't land advantage into consideration.



Same as above



They are pretty bulky and can easily smash though tree it will take more what you are describing. Plus my focus are not using them offensive but their Spirit attack.



Lol no, plus I already post their speed, which Shikimaru commented, with their defense also. Itachi shooting a Fire Ball, gets a spirit worm right though it and on Itachi

- In the first scan you posted, shikamaru stated the melody changed (can't predict attack pattern) and stated 'something's comming'( meaning it was at last minute he spotted the doki).
- Yet, he still evaded. [SUP][

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][/SUP]
- Then, While moving through the air, they released the ghosts and shikimaru proceeded to lunge off a nearby tree[SUP][

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][/SUP]
- At which point he was now floating in the air with these 'ghosts' coming at him[SUP][

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][/SUP]
- While suspended in air, he had absolutely no way of changing his trajectory(where he's going), only his orientation(how he's facing). Yet, he still managed to nearly completely evade all 3 of these 'ghosts'[SUP][

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][/SUP]

- Next, shikamaru landed on a branch, turned, and tossed kunai at the 'ghosts'[SUP][

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][/SUP]
- At which point, shikamaru shushined away; Dropped a bomb tag; Which resulted in said bomb tag exploding to give him time to find a hiding spot.

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​

In all of these cases, Shikamaru still evaded, and launched a counter attack. The doki are slow. Period.

Furthermore, you keep touting their 'ghosts' yet you haven't explained how the doki themselves survive. So, itachi's going to fire a katon at them, and they pass the spirits through it to do what? The doki are now dead, the spirits are gone. They have absolutely 0 defence feats, hype or suggestion that their defence is better than any creature around their size.

---

Spoiler

Scan there was Kabuto using a snake attribute, blocking their eye sight, called "Brille." He did this to counter Itachi's genjutsu. All snakes have this, and by Kabuto's command, they can. Plus the first two scan showed what else they can do, with is strictly using their tongue to sense Itachi, which he didn't even bother hitting them with Genjutsu. Meaning that its effective counter, canonically.

This really doesn't help manda. The second manda 2 is summoned, he's susceptible to genjutsu. As we already know, it only takes the instant you glance into itachi's eyes for you to be under genjutsu[SUP][

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][

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][/SUP]. Kabuto will not be able to give manda 2 the command before he's under genjutsu, nor will he be able to receive the command while under it.

Shadow sleeve snakes is a completely different on-the-fly attack which can just be evaded with shunshin, bushin feints, countered with katon, suiton, etc etc etc.
Even if you argue those were sumonings, they're still way too small, making them simply too weak, to be relevant or warrant a susano'o. They'd be killed rather easily[SUP][

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][

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][

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][

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][/SUP]. At the end of the day, all kabuto did was make them grow bigger as these creatures from these 3 'special places' already have/can gather senjutsu energy[SUP][

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][/SUP].

---

Spoiler

Ok but that isn't helping him countering the webs since it will still be spammed, with Kabuto Sage precision on top of it.

What? What does spamming have to do with it? All he needs to do is keep running. He could even make a shadow resulting in

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. Spamming a technique your opponent is fast enough to dodge is completely pointless[

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][

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], and a waste of chakra, when the sharingan/MS can already keep up with V1 bee, V2 Ay, KCM naruto, BM naruto, and

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. These webs are no where near these godspeeds.
So, yes, the fact that Itachi could move faster than KCM naruto and Bee is definitely helping him counter the webs. Stating otherwise is basically stating these webs can catch V2 Ay, BM naruto, etc, etc by 'web spam'.

Spoiler

He does this then [

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]. With another coming on its way[

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].
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there is:
-Orochimaru White Snake: If Itachi were to keep owning it, once cut, poison will vaporized into the air paralyzing Itachi.

-White Rage: Blocking all Itachi senses, since he can't see Kabuto move, Kabuto can easily take him out, even underground[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] or [

You must be registered for see links

] outta the ground.

At that point he just slices the thing with susano'o sword, instead of using ama, the same way sasuke did. So even in such a situation it's still pointless.

Logically speaking, with full intel, itachi already knows about his massive disadvantages when white rage is out, therefore he'd just destroy the orb before it blew. He had enough time to dash a considerable distance to sasuke after it was already launched. He has plenty time to just destroy the orb. Even CT could be destroyed, this orb is nothing.

 

[Touken]

Can Itachi execute Izanami without getting stabbed a few times?

 

[AGoodBoy]

Can Itachi execute Izanami without getting stabbed a few times?

He doesn't need to be stabbed. It just needs a 'shared' feeling that he can use to map their 5 sensing onto. Kabuto can simply touch/wrap him with snakes and izanami can activate.

 

[sharingansennin]

100 feet
no restrictions (besides ET)
as title suggests Kabuto starts in DSM
open field
full knowledge

can hiruzen use reaper death seal?

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

can hiruzen use reaper death seal?

yup ofc 10char

 

[Touken]

He doesn't need to be stabbed. It just needs a 'shared' feeling that he can use to map their 5 sensing onto. Kabuto can simply touch/wrap him with snakes and izanami can activate.

Which would be impractical because that same feeling would have to occur twice, meaning he'd have to be wrapped round with snakes twice which'll probably end up with Itachi getting stabbed.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Which would be impractical because that same feeling would have to occur twice, meaning he'd have to be wrapped round with snakes twice which'll probably end up with Itachi getting stabbed.

Umm no. He replicated being stabbed, bursting into crows, and cutting kabuto's horn twice.
Getting wrapped by snakes is 1000x more practical then that. Why?
Because to get stabbed, he had to set up a situation where kabuto would have to stab him.
To burst into crows, he had to make sure he himself was prepped for that situation.
To cut his horn he not had to make sure he was fast enough and accurate enough not once, but twice.

All it takes to get wrapped by snakes is... having kabuto use a jutsu that's already in his arsenal/fighting style.