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Hiruzen and Itachi vs DSM Kabuto
- Thread starter Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg
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Boston Rob
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That's what someone's username ^ would say
Prime Hiruzen > Madara, what can yours username say?
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Boston Rob
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....Says the guy with a milk moustache Lol
Brother Numpsay
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Still waiting for someone explaining how alive Itachi can solo
AGoodBoy
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I automatically disregard E.T when i hear 'DSM Kabuto'. Only a coward runs to the likes of Edo madara to show how 'DSM kabuto' beats someone. That doesn't tell me a shred how Kabuto himself gets the job done, it only says edo madara is > x/y. Whoopty doo, Kabuto wins because he has a stronger man fighting for him :|
Dude, you're the one making no sense at all. You're making up those 'contradictions'.
You're scan hunting through the manga for any little thing to say i'm 'contradicting myself'. How am I contradicting myself when you're bringing up your own different statements?
What does Itachi telling sasuke, In the start of the fight, "Don't kill kabuto" have to do with a jutsu wayyyyy down the line?
What does the two of the two of them working together in the fight have to do with what I said?
What because they're working together, it instantly means they can't do anything alone in the fight? Then sasuke can't block muki tensei with his own susano'o? Itachi can't revert the cave with his own amaterasu? Sasuke can't break kimi's bones with his own susano'o sword? By your logic, only the person/person's who did something individually or together can hope to do it again.
You're literally looking up irrelevant nonsense to make a case. This has 0 to do with
Itachi: "Sasuke... Look into my eyes!" - Clearly an assertive statement so that he can keep sasuke safe like he did all fight long. Itachi's first priority was to keep sasuke safe.
Sasuke: "That's it!" - Sasuke's own opinion that what sasuke's stating is that they need to use genjutsu on each other. Sasuke's first priority was to stop Kabuto even if it means severely injuring him like he
Since you want to act all 'smart', answer these questions;
If itachi needed, wanted or requested sasuke's help, he'd
You're scan hunting through the manga for any little thing to say i'm 'contradicting myself'. How am I contradicting myself when you're bringing up your own different statements?
What does Itachi telling sasuke, In the start of the fight, "Don't kill kabuto" have to do with a jutsu wayyyyy down the line?
What does the two of the two of them working together in the fight have to do with what I said?
What because they're working together, it instantly means they can't do anything alone in the fight? Then sasuke can't block muki tensei with his own susano'o? Itachi can't revert the cave with his own amaterasu? Sasuke can't break kimi's bones with his own susano'o sword? By your logic, only the person/person's who did something individually or together can hope to do it again.
You're literally looking up irrelevant nonsense to make a case. This has 0 to do with
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scan. Itachi: "Sasuke... Look into my eyes!" - Clearly an assertive statement so that he can keep sasuke safe like he did all fight long. Itachi's first priority was to keep sasuke safe.
Sasuke: "That's it!" - Sasuke's own opinion that what sasuke's stating is that they need to use genjutsu on each other. Sasuke's first priority was to stop Kabuto even if it means severely injuring him like he
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.Since you want to act all 'smart', answer these questions;
- Is sasuke's basic genjutsu stronger than tsukuyomi? After all, by your logic, itachi( 5 gen) NEEDED to use tsukuyomi while all sasuke(4 gen) needed was basic genjutsu.
- Is shikamaru better at genjutsu than itachi and sasuke? The guy was able to use jutsu during tayuya's CS-V2 enhanced genjutsu and beat it, right?
- Can you prove to me that kabuto's SM enhanced flute song is soooo much more powerful than tayuya's CS-V2(pseudo SM)? Shikamaru( 2.5 genjutsu ) broke hers rather easily with pain, but you're implying itachi( 5 genjutsu/sharingan ) needed to use the most powerful genjutsu in the manga to break kabuto's.
If itachi needed, wanted or requested sasuke's help, he'd
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. Unless you can find an explicit scan (mangapanda/viz/etc) implying itachi asked or stated they both needed to break each other out, like he did
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, then stop fishing for non-existent evidence all over the fight. Sasuke's words =/= itachi's words when itachi's on a completely different agenda.not sure what this means. You do know sasuke had susano'o sustained for quiite some time before that scan right? [
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][
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][
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][
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][
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]The strain takes quite a while to occur on an MS body, assuming you even use the susano'o.
Ummm... Not the point. The point is, itachi launched himself directly at sasuke to protect him. Which strengthens my point that his genjutsu on sasuke was to protect him. Itachi would then worry about himself after like I've shown you about 5 times. You're disregarding evidence.
@bold: So, in edo body, itachi could overcome the deafening sounds and crippling pain but if he's alive he can't repeat that because you say so? Lmao, prove that.
In the end, he just does a rib cage on himself and tanks kabuto's attack because his target is obvious... assuming the effects are even that bad in an open field that itachi can't just substitute out with a crow bushin like usual.
@bold: So, in edo body, itachi could overcome the deafening sounds and crippling pain but if he's alive he can't repeat that because you say so? Lmao, prove that.
In the end, he just does a rib cage on himself and tanks kabuto's attack because his target is obvious... assuming the effects are even that bad in an open field that itachi can't just substitute out with a crow bushin like usual.
Oh, i'm sure I'll take your words for it. Now who's making things up?
So, because itachi
Underrate itachi much? Lol
So, because itachi
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to overcome the effects, sasuke was in less pain? Looks to me like he was in the same
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as sasuke (hand over ear, hunched over, gritting teeth) but I'm sure you can judge pain off still pictures.Underrate itachi much? Lol
So, now, we're making excuses are we?
I provide even more evidence to strengthen my point that itachi's been trying to protect sasuke, you talk about a naval? Yea, his naval would have been sooooooo effective against a guy who literally just
I provide even more evidence to strengthen my point that itachi's been trying to protect sasuke, you talk about a naval? Yea, his naval would have been sooooooo effective against a guy who literally just
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seconds ago.Yea, this was more to prove, yet again, seeing as you're somehow completely missing this simple point that itachi was protecting sasuke the entire fight.
But, anyway, In a cave? This will be one of the only times he'd need susano'o. Out in a field? He can just
Oh, Let me guess, you're going to imply that kabuto muki tensei's the sky to bring in down on itachi's head to sandwich him in again right? no, no! foolish me! You'll say kabuto curls the entire earth into an orb.
Stop making excuses. Kabuto's supposedly tiers above itachi, but MS strain and stamina is your fallback argument? Lol
But, anyway, In a cave? This will be one of the only times he'd need susano'o. Out in a field? He can just
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. Nothing suggests muki tensei is fast enough to catch a guy who could literally jump meters away from 2 super fast opponents before they could follow through with their attacks.Oh, Let me guess, you're going to imply that kabuto muki tensei's the sky to bring in down on itachi's head to sandwich him in again right? no, no! foolish me! You'll say kabuto curls the entire earth into an orb.
Stop making excuses. Kabuto's supposedly tiers above itachi, but MS strain and stamina is your fallback argument? Lol
1. I'm starting to get the feeling like you can't read..... I said "Itachi doesn't give a shit... about what sasuke can or can't do. Nor does he give a shit about his own wellbeing." However, "Itachi gives a shit... about keeping sasuke safe". I don't know if you know what the definition of contradiction is, but that isn't it.
2. lol. You have no evidence he can't. My evidence is shikamaru, leagues worse in genjutsu, broke out of a slightly weaker version on his own. Weak argument, you're clearly admitting defeat clutching to one jutsu.
3. Sweet bro, keep clinching to that sound genjutsu. Proof it's even as powerful in an open field? Proof itachi can't break it alone? Proof sasuke's better than itachi in genjutsu? Proof shikamaru's better than uchiha in genjutsu? don't worry, I'll wait. I can't wait to read these excuses.
4. Yea, they needed a more powerful genjutsu to break it. Ergo, basic sharingan genjutsu was more powerful Lol. Now, come make up an excuse that itachi can't break basic sharingan level genjutsu. Oh, wait, no, you'll cling to sasuke's words which have nothing to do with itachi. I'll wait till you bring me the scan where itachi asked for sasuke's help like he did with
2. lol. You have no evidence he can't. My evidence is shikamaru, leagues worse in genjutsu, broke out of a slightly weaker version on his own. Weak argument, you're clearly admitting defeat clutching to one jutsu.
3. Sweet bro, keep clinching to that sound genjutsu. Proof it's even as powerful in an open field? Proof itachi can't break it alone? Proof sasuke's better than itachi in genjutsu? Proof shikamaru's better than uchiha in genjutsu? don't worry, I'll wait. I can't wait to read these excuses.
4. Yea, they needed a more powerful genjutsu to break it. Ergo, basic sharingan genjutsu was more powerful Lol. Now, come make up an excuse that itachi can't break basic sharingan level genjutsu. Oh, wait, no, you'll cling to sasuke's words which have nothing to do with itachi. I'll wait till you bring me the scan where itachi asked for sasuke's help like he did with
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.-Itachi can jump. Full throttle seedling fern wasn't fast enough for a much slower, part1 rock lee to react to [
-What? LMFAO. This guy thinks Doki are fast enough to hit itachi? Are you that desperate now?? LMAO. Yea, bro, shikamaru got
-So, now, Kabuto can get close enough to itachi, touch the ground long enough, and form a complete dome around itachi before he does anything? LoL. Yea, bro, Kabuto's faster at executing complicated jutsu than bee and naruto are at
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][
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] (notice his stance changes) or for gaara to bring them up. >Inb4 base, part1 rock lee is faster than itachi.-What? LMFAO. This guy thinks Doki are fast enough to hit itachi? Are you that desperate now?? LMAO. Yea, bro, shikamaru got
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; Makes itachi look like a turtle.-So, now, Kabuto can get close enough to itachi, touch the ground long enough, and form a complete dome around itachi before he does anything? LoL. Yea, bro, Kabuto's faster at executing complicated jutsu than bee and naruto are at
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. I like your desperate attempt to even suggest the nonsense drains chakra so quick that a susano'o, which formed in <1/1000 a second, can't form inside it LolI love how itachi haters always bring up susano'o. If you even mention susano'o anywhere in your response, instantly they start putting words into your mouth "Itachi's going to use susano'o the entire time and die". Lolno. Bunch of weak arguments. You clearly have a weak understanding of itachi genjutsu prowess, speed and taijutsu capabilities. You probably also have a weak understanding of his ninjutsu capabilities too.
No one said itachi's holding up susano'o the entire fight. All those susano'o scans were to prove a point. Only thing kabuto has that requires susano'o, in this area, is maybe white rage. Everything else can be dodged or feinted with clones. Lol
Boston Rob
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Totsuka GG Lol
AGoodBoy
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Check out End of Days final argument. PRetty much proves totsuka can hit kabuto. GG.
Or we can just izanami and kill him while he's fighting in lalaland.
Brother Numpsay
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perceptual ability say no lol[
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]I took your statement as in the fight in general.
@Bold: Needs evidence that it can, since evidence lends towards Itachi using Totsuka.
I'm making excuses? Your stating that Sasuke's words is his own opinion due to Itachi "having a different mindset of the outcome" lol? Then completely ignores that Sasuke was clear minded with Itachi method of beating him[
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][
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] which he didn't bother doing what your claiming?.In the end you cannot stop Sasuke's statement of being invalid, which connects to Itachi's statement of counter the jutsu.
You can't even make an argument on how he can do it by himself
1. My logic does not apply who genjutsu was better here, only you implied this. The answer is obivous and has nothing to do with anything that I said.
2.Once again bringing up Shikamaru situation is irreverent as it's not Kabuto's genjutsu being performed.
3. Sure I can prove it to you, here is Fukasaku's comment when you learn to harness Sage Mode[
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]. Now bring some evidence on how Itachi can break out himself, since clearly all it took for Sasuke was to use Sharingan Genjutsu. Unless your implying that Itachi and Sasuke can genjutsu themselves?Clearly your not reading if you said he didn't ask Sasuke.
OH so you are implying that Sasuke words holds no water, lmao. Sasuke has a different agenda? Last time I check he wanted to save Itachi has much as Itachi wanted to save him from danger. AND wanted to follow Itachi's goal too. Please tell me how Sasuke's goal is any different lmao.
Good thing my point was talking about Sasuke's statement instead of Sasuke's personal stamina.
No, your just ignoring evidence, by blanking out Sasuke's statement and Itachi asking Sasuke what to do.
No because Sasuke's statement from its effect is much different then Itachi in Edo Tensei.
Sasuke:" Bones grinding"
I hope your not going to say that Edo Tensei can feel bones/organs feeling the same as much as a fleshly body.
No because Sasuke's statement from its effect is much different then Itachi in Edo Tensei.
Sasuke:" Bones grinding"
I hope your not going to say that Edo Tensei can feel bones/organs feeling the same as much as a fleshly body.
1. Itachi can't tank any of Kabuto's jutsu's with Rip Cage, bar Taijutsu. Even then Jirobo's physical strength, through Sage Mode can be argued.
2. The important factor here in the open field is not the paralyze effect. He can't hear Kabuto's movements. He can't see Kabuto's movement. Kabuto proceeds to go killing mode instead of capture mode.
Same reply as above.
You didn't strengthen anything. The person making excuses is you, trying to make Sasuke's statement holding no water. Sasuke wanted to protect Itachi and accomplish Itachi's goal after they started working together from [
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] through the rest of the chapters. Try again.What does Itachi saving Sasuke have to do with my point here again?
Its funny how your focus of Muki Tensei already have be offensive spikes lmao. There is alot more you can't do when you are bringing something to life.
Your losing intelligent points with that last statement. I suggest you be claim and collective, instead of trying to stir things of with bunch a fallacious arguments. Like putting words on peoples mouths?
Fallback argument? What say that? Because Itachi Stamina is truely a factor here? There is no fallback if you haven't counter my arguments to begin with.
Ok. Sasuke's point still stands that follows with Itachi's words.
No no sir, Prove of Negative is fallacious. As for you evidence is irreverent as Shikimaru's method in situation then Itachi's. While the Genjutsu used from Kabuto is much stronger. Cluting to one jutsu. Why lie when you clearly reading my whole argument?
Im ignoring this post since you are clearly ignoring my points and adding words to my mouth. Stuff like:
"Sasuke better then Itachi in Genjutsu"
"Shikimaru is better then uchiha in genjutsu"
While your want me to prove a negative.
No no sir, Prove of Negative is fallacious. As for you evidence is irreverent as Shikimaru's method in situation then Itachi's. While the Genjutsu used from Kabuto is much stronger. Cluting to one jutsu. Why lie when you clearly reading my whole argument?
Im ignoring this post since you are clearly ignoring my points and adding words to my mouth. Stuff like:
"Sasuke better then Itachi in Genjutsu"
"Shikimaru is better then uchiha in genjutsu"
While your want me to prove a negative.
Listen to your own words. You are confuse. It didn't matter what level Sharingan that needed to be used, as Itachi has demonstrated, it was how they needed to use it. Anyway your still ignoring Sasuke statement on top off that, and his mind set.
-Thats nice, and yet he needs to land right after. Which then becomes Kabuto's battlefield of bones on top of that.
-First of all learn to read my point. this can be a follow up jutsu. Second understand the context:
-As if Kabuto needs to make it obvious. Good thing Muki Tensei can help scribble the ground and Jirobo's ability to create short earthquake[
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] to go along with it. Not to mention the Range of the jutsu can alter due to it being Earth style.Good thing I didn't say that. In a fight again'st Kabuto he will need it most of the time so point? You clearly don't understand anything of Kabuto, which you already admitted correct? So lets not go off topic and focus on the actual discussion.
interesting so requrement of teamwork.
So pointless to say alive Itachi can solo, right?
AGoodBoy
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Bruh, until you can make an argument that doesn't revolve around desperate denial, Itachi obviously wins this. All you're doing and have been doing is finding an excuse. There's literally so much opinion in your post that it'll be a complete waste of time to respond to it because you'll just respond with a bigger wall of opinion.
"You'll need proof that sasuke's sword can cut kimi's bone". Wtf? Stop looking for desperate excuses. Sound gen isn't ending this fight, if that's your only argument, then you have no argument at all.
"Shikamaru breaking the genjutsu is completely irrelevant" Wtf? Just because you say so? Telling me to look at fukasaku's words doesn't change the fact that tayuya was under the effects of cursed mark version 2, a form of sage mode. I mean, do you even think up these desperate responses? or do you also need to know how much of a massive power bump CS V2 gives you? I'll give you 1 hint, it let sasuke break tsukuyomi. Like seriously, wtf?
"Sharingan genjutsu is the only way to break it, unless they can use genjutsu on themself" Wtf? So itachi used genjutsu on himself when he reversed Kurenai's jutsu?
"Itachi will need susano'o most the time" for what, to chill out? Wtf?
So, itachi can completely destroy S-Class shinobi without busting a sweat, but Kabuto will force him to stick in susano'o all fight because you say so? wtf?
Seriously, so much wtf.
Prove itachi can't break sound gen on his own. Until you find a legitimate response, I'm not going to waste time beating around the bush with you.
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Brother Numpsay
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Are you really going to leave when dropping full of a fallacious conclusion:
Ad Hominem
Burden of proof fallacy
False analogy
Dude the only person sound desperate is you. You completely ignored Sasukes mindset and words in his match with Kabuto. Your doing your best to make anything Sasuke has done or say, hold no water and brings "irrelevance"
There nothing desperate in that claim/premise.
P1.Kimmi's bones can be made dense to clash with steel blades, even chakra infused blades.
P2.Sage Mode's Senjutsu gives boosted the density of the bones even further.
P3. Itachi, logically, most likely, and evidence-wise, use Totsuka's ethereal prioritizes to take down and slice through the bones with ease.
Conclusion. Sasuke's default sword does not have the same prioritizes as Totsuka Blade, to make the conclusion being the same fate.
Stop lying you ignored all my points if you claim that Sound gen was ending the fight:
1.Flooding the field with Bone forest, becomes home advantage: Bones can spike on underneath Sussanoo. Or Kabuto can bone spawn and plan his next move
2. Doton Doro. I added combos into the list to successfully trap Itachi. Sage Senjutsu dramatic gives it a better chakra absorption frame.
3. Doki Spirits. I made a premise on how it can be useful. The quote I added broke down how it can be dangerous on Kabuto's possession, and defeated it misconceptions, like Shikimaru's "speed" dodge them.
4. I brought Manda II into this (and I could of said summoning spam too)
If anything I could brought even more points: Web Spam[
No because the manga portray Kabuto's Genjutsu much stronger. Nor does Itachi have Shadow possession tech acting as "partner".
So yes it is irreverent. As Kabuto can make Tayuya make more then one stimulation[
"a form of sage mode". Who's desperate again?
Kabuto says it best, when Sasuke brought up Curse Mode[
This sentence doesn't even make sense but you are really sound dumb and desperate if you think the massive power up from CM is as good as SM
Sentence is not making sense. I explain what it took for the work of Sasuke and Itachi to defeat the mental battle.
You still trying to give me the burden of proof of how Itachi can break Kabuto's genjutsu alone. Desperate much?
With everyhing I list so far, which I made easier by breaking it down in this post
Yea, wtf? Your not making any sense nor are you even attempting to back up your claims
Same post from the beginning.
Seriously whos the desperate one here lol
Ad Hominem
Burden of proof fallacy
False analogy
Dude the only person sound desperate is you. You completely ignored Sasukes mindset and words in his match with Kabuto. Your doing your best to make anything Sasuke has done or say, hold no water and brings "irrelevance"
There nothing desperate in that claim/premise.
P1.Kimmi's bones can be made dense to clash with steel blades, even chakra infused blades.
P2.Sage Mode's Senjutsu gives boosted the density of the bones even further.
P3. Itachi, logically, most likely, and evidence-wise, use Totsuka's ethereal prioritizes to take down and slice through the bones with ease.
Conclusion. Sasuke's default sword does not have the same prioritizes as Totsuka Blade, to make the conclusion being the same fate.
Stop lying you ignored all my points if you claim that Sound gen was ending the fight:
1.Flooding the field with Bone forest, becomes home advantage: Bones can spike on underneath Sussanoo. Or Kabuto can bone spawn and plan his next move
2. Doton Doro. I added combos into the list to successfully trap Itachi. Sage Senjutsu dramatic gives it a better chakra absorption frame.
3. Doki Spirits. I made a premise on how it can be useful. The quote I added broke down how it can be dangerous on Kabuto's possession, and defeated it misconceptions, like Shikimaru's "speed" dodge them.
4. I brought Manda II into this (and I could of said summoning spam too)
If anything I could brought even more points: Web Spam[
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] According to Sasuke (He even...Behind us!). Something Amaterasu cant fully be spam in this condition. Nor, not having Sasuke having his back here.No because the manga portray Kabuto's Genjutsu much stronger. Nor does Itachi have Shadow possession tech acting as "partner".
So yes it is irreverent. As Kabuto can make Tayuya make more then one stimulation[
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]. Itachi in jutsu's will be halted, can't conflict pain, since he can't move his body during the added stimulation."a form of sage mode". Who's desperate again?
Kabuto says it best, when Sasuke brought up Curse Mode[
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]This sentence doesn't even make sense but you are really sound dumb and desperate if you think the massive power up from CM is as good as SM
Sentence is not making sense. I explain what it took for the work of Sasuke and Itachi to defeat the mental battle.
You still trying to give me the burden of proof of how Itachi can break Kabuto's genjutsu alone. Desperate much?
With everyhing I list so far, which I made easier by breaking it down in this post
Yea, wtf? Your not making any sense nor are you even attempting to back up your claims
Same post from the beginning.
Seriously whos the desperate one here lol
Nagato The Sage
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Itachi and Hiruzen take it Low-Mid Diff.
Also just saying, Amaterasu would have hit Kabuto here if it weren't for Sasuke aiming at the ground.
Also just saying, Amaterasu would have hit Kabuto here if it weren't for Sasuke aiming at the ground.
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Brother Numpsay
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Apparently I'm the only one making "desperate excuses and denying" that Itachi could always beat it alone, according to AGoodBoy.
Kabuto sheds it off my friend. or blocks it with Golden armor.
AGoodBoy
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proof itachi can't break sound gen? still don't see it. just more tl;dr;
Not bothering to refute any of this until you prove your only viable tech can beat one of the best genjutsu user in the manga.
@bold: oh, the irony.
Brother Numpsay
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Isn't ironic through? You want to burden of proof to lean on me when you need to prove he can. YOU made the claim he can do it alone, when the manga portray Itachi situation different. SO NOW THAT MEANS then, to you, you prove to that he can do it alone. Thus it is burden to YOU to proof it. You are trying to make yourself feel smart, in the end you aren't. Your are trying to lean the fallacious arguments on mine when your not even understanding how these fallacies work.
You are not going to make desperate ways of dodging these, as your doing your best to not make an argument (escape pod to avoid conceding) , or sneak out with a witty comment, wait isn't that a form of Ad Hominem?
Edit: ignore my other points that shows other methods of beating Itachi, while you claim I am only arguing through genjutsu.
Not only that, you claiming that there's no proof for me to prove the negative when I already address the situation of Shikimaru's case, compare to Itachi's case. So once again you are lying. Which you already stated you weren't doing to read my premise in the first place, lol this just keep getting better and better.
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HadouKage
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This has already been shown he needed Sasuke to do this