So... Hiruzen vs Tsunade?

[Bogard]

Hiruzen can't do the combo he used in latest chapter in his alive state without heavily suffering in his chakra reserves. It was already noted it was a fool attempt of him just to seperate his chakra in 3, so let alone use those combined attacks with 1/3 of his chakra for each(1/5 in this case). The chakra is the issue here. If he had high chakra reserves, i could have seen him able to pull this off. Unfortunately it's not the case

 

[Draegod]

Hiruzen can't do the combo he used in latest chapter in his alive state without heavily suffering in his chakra reserves. It was already noted it was a fool attempt of him just to seperate his chakra in 3, so let alone use those combined attacks with 1/3 of his chakra for each(1/5 in this case). The chakra is the issue here. If he had high chakra reserves, i could have seen him able to pull this off. Unfortunately it's not the case

But he used a S rank Jutsu 3 times..... I think His chakra will be just fine even in his old state. He just was thinking long run at the beginning. But then he realized what he had to do (RDS), and then proceeded to make Clones perfectly fine and use a S rank Jutsu at an extremely old age.

 

[Curse Mark]

KG solo'd
.

 

[EZQ]

The Tsunade wank is real as hell in this thread. The only reason she could beat Hiruzen is because he has no real way to kill her, not because she'll overpower him.

-Hiruzen is far superior in CQC, if she comes at him, she gets shitted on and smacked around by Enma just like Orochimaru did, but worse. It doesn't help that her moves are predictable as hell. [

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] Her being able to regen from it doesn't mean she isn't going to get her ass whooped.

-Even if she's about to land a punch, Hiruzen simply blocks her fist with Enma and its all dandy.

Katsuyu gets an 5 beyond Bijuu sized elemental jutsu combo to her face and that's a wrap, so I don't know why people even begin to think its a factor here.

In fact he should be able to kill her, low-mid diff. The whole reason I always believed Tsunade would win is because Hiruzen would get outlasted due to Byakugo. She wasn't considered stronger than him in my book and she isn't now.

-Giant Shurikens should dismember her and a well placed one should bisect her.

-A Suiton+Raiton combo should not only electrocute her because of the water mixed with electricity, the Raiton bolts should also rip her apart given the Nature's properties, which is piercing for pretty much almost every offensive based Raiton ability.

-Doton should smash her considering all it is are large ass boulders being fired out at a high velocity and large volume. Unless we think Byakugo will let her heal from being a stain in the dirt.

-Using all these elements to hit her over and over again should cause her Byakugo chakra to run out very very quickly due to the sheer amount of chakra that will have to be wasted regenerating from his attacks, and since he's an Edo, he can use them indefinitely without worry of chakra levels.


Hiruzen shits on her, period. This is directed toward anyone who is delusional enough to think she has a chance.

Even if Hiruzen is overall stronger than Tsunade on your book, that doesn't change the fact that Byakugo tsunade would be the winner if they fight, Hiruzen doesn't have the stamina... His current feats are impressive, but lets not ignore he's an edo tensei, he has infinite stamina, alive Hiruzen would lose a lot of chakra if he uses the elemental combo of the last chapter.

Hiruzen would eventually lose his energy while Byakugo Tsunade would be at 100% , she wins.

Giant Shurikens won't affect tsunade that much, look at this:

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If hiruzen thinks he can stop her with shurikens, he's pretty wrong.
And look how strong she becomes, not to mention her speed, not even madara dodged her. If Hiruzen gets that he definitely dies, he can't dodge her so he would try to block the atack with enma, but are his arms strong enough to block a punch that can hurt even susano?

Tsunade wins, even if Hiruzen is overall stronger, he doesn't have the stamina to face Byakugo Tsunade

 

[KidGamer65]

Even if Hiruzen is overall stronger than Tsunade on your book, that doesn't change the fact that Byakugo tsunade would be the winner if they fight, Hiruzen doesn't have the stamina... His current feats are impressive, but lets not ignore he's an edo tensei, he has infinite stamina, alive Hiruzen would lose a lot of chakra if he uses the elemental combo of the last chapter.

This thread has him as an Edo without the Regen, so what is the point of this part of your post?

Hiruzen would eventually lose his energy while Byakugo Tsunade would be at 100% , she wins.

Hiruzen is an Edo for this thread, sorry.

Giant Shurikens won't affect tsunade that much, look at this:

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If hiruzen thinks he can stop her with shurikens, he's pretty wrong.
And look how strong she becomes, not to mention her speed, not even madara dodged her. If Hiruzen gets that he definitely dies, he can't dodge her so he would try to block the atack with enma, but are his arms strong enough to block a punch that can hurt even susano?

Being stabbed by a two giant swords is different from having dozens of giant Shuriken sent flying at you at high velocities, if the Shuriken is sharp enough and moves fast enough, she'll end up like B's tentacle.

lol, stop. Not even Madara dodged her? Are we really serious with this? Every time she attacked Madara has chosen to tank with Susanoo instead of evading, if you think Tsunade can even blitz a Sharingan user of Madara's level, i'll have to question your judgement. Her speed is irrelevant, its nothing Hiruzen can't react to nor is it even impressive.

The pole would pretty much absorb all the damage from her attack, and that punch did nothing to Susanoo except for knocking it over.

Tsunade wins, even if Hiruzen is overall stronger, he doesn't have the stamina to face Byakugo Tsunade

lol, your whole post consists of him outlasting her, but you made it seem that she'd beat him down in your previous posts. Lol

OP made him an Edo so stamina is irrelevant. Even so, if he's alive, the Shuriken or Raiton/Doton streams should be enough to kill her.

 

[Trollasaur]

Hiruzen just spams her with Bijju sized ninjutsu to death

 

[EZQ]

This thread has him as an Edo without the Regen, so what is the point of this part of your post?


Hiruzen is an Edo for this thread, sorry.




Being stabbed by a two giant swords is different from having dozens of giant Shuriken sent flying at you at high velocities, if the Shuriken is sharp enough and moves fast enough, she'll end up like B's tentacle.

lol, stop. Not even Madara dodged her? Are we really serious with this? Every time she attacked Madara has chosen to tank with Susanoo instead of evading, if you think Tsunade can even blitz a Sharingan user of Madara's level, i'll have to question your judgement. Her speed is irrelevant, its nothing Hiruzen can't react to nor is it even impressive.

The pole would pretty much absorb all the damage from her attack, and that punch did nothing to Susanoo except for knocking it over.


lol, your whole post consists of him outlasting her, but you made it seem that she'd beat him down in your previous posts. Lol

OP made him an Edo so stamina is irrelevant. Even so, if he's alive, the Shuriken or Raiton/Doton streams should be enough to kill her.

Oh hiruzen has infinite chakra, i dind't see that, well that's stupid, this puts him on a whole different level. Not fair fight.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Hiruzen losing his energy?

Man, you are thinking of part 1 Hiruzen.

The power scale difference is HUGE.

Edo Hiruzen still split his power in 5 and managed to use bijuu-sized ninjutsu to counter shinsusenju, ninjutsu of all 5 elements.

His chakra is fine.

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh hiruzen has infinite chakra, i dind't see that, well that's stupid, this puts him on a whole different level. Not fair fight.

Hiruzen would still win because of the reasons listed above.

Hiruzen losing his energy?

Man, you are thinking of part 1 Hiruzen.

The power scale difference is HUGE.

Edo Hiruzen still split his power in 5 and managed to use bijuu-sized ninjutsu to counter shinsusenju, ninjutsu of all 5 elements.

His chakra is fine.

Yeah, this too. He should be fine using one a time while alive since the chakra pool doesn't change from when you were alive or when you are an Edo. Based on what they said about him making 3 clones, 5 should have been out of his reach, let alone using Bijuu sized Ninjutsu along with that.

 

[Joshutsu]

He can't kill her with anything. He can't beat her. Katsuya solos enma. She's not going to lay down and let hiruzen 'hit her neck' she's not a puppet she won't stay still.

Not even RDS can kill her with summons on field, katsuya can handle enma and still aid Tsunade via great division. No proof those elemental attacks cannot be tanked by her, not to mention living hiruzen couldn't even use more than 2 kage bushin as a non edo adding elemental combination to that would kill the guy of chakra exhaustion.

Tsunade beats hiruzen. =/

 

[Touken]

He can't kill her with anything. He can't beat her. Katsuya solos enma. She's not going to lay down and let hiruzen 'hit her neck' she's not a puppet she won't stay still.

Not even RDS can kill her with summons on field, katsuya can handle enma and still aid Tsunade via great division. No proof those elemental attacks cannot be tanked by her, not to mention living hiruzen couldn't even use more than 2 kage bushin as a non edo adding elemental combination to that would kill the guy of chakra exhaustion.

Tsunade beats hiruzen. =/

Suiton/Raiton combination paralyses her, considering mitotic regeneration doesn't help her recover from paralysis. Hiruzen then proceeds to decapitate her using a Fuuma Shuriken.

 

[Joshutsu]

Suiton/Raiton combination paralyses her, considering mitotic regeneration doesn't help her recover from paralysis. Hiruzen then proceeds to decapitate her using a Fuuma Shuriken.

Proof it doesn't help her with paralysis? Does it not affect the body?

Proof Tsunade cannot control her own electrical pathways like she used electricity to mess up kabuto?

No? Tsunade tanks. Not to mention there's something called dodge. Hiruzens new elemental streams were small and avoidable by the looks of it a decent side step would do it. Same for his shuriken. He doesn't have the stamina to keep up a spam either.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

He can't kill her with anything. He can't beat her. Katsuya solos enma. She's not going to lay down and let hiruzen 'hit her neck' she's not a puppet she won't stay still.

Not even RDS can kill her with summons on field, katsuya can handle enma and still aid Tsunade via great division. No proof those elemental attacks cannot be tanked by her, not to mention living hiruzen couldn't even use more than 2 kage bushin as a non edo adding elemental combination to that would kill the guy of chakra exhaustion.

Tsunade beats hiruzen. =/

Giant shuriken tear her to pieces.

Raiton paralyses her.

Proof Tsunade cannot control her own electrical pathways like she used electricity to mess up kabuto?

No? Tsunade tanks

Actually, the burden of proof is on you. YOu are claiming she can do something she has never shown before, so go ahead and prove it.

 

[Joshutsu]

Giant shuriken tear her to pieces.

Raiton paralyses her.



Actually, the burden of proof is on you. YOu are claiming she can do something she has never shown before, so go ahead and prove it.

And you are claiming she can be paralysed without proof that byakugou or that cannot stop it. You see ? There's more burden on yourself because I have considered those as valid counters.

The fact she can change her chakra into electricity, is proof enough for me. Or that byakugou heals EVERYTHING dealing with her body.

Edit: Shuriken? Cute Tsunade tanked Yasaka Magatama point blank...

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Oh, you meant with Byakugou on.

Well, that won't hold forever. What, a couple minutes?

The fact she can change her chakra into electricity, is proof enough for me.

Who told you she can use it defensively?

Shuriken? Cute Tsunade tanked Yasaka Magatama point blank...

And Obito was using his Dust Release thing for those.

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[Touken]

Proof it doesn't help her with paralysis? Does it not affect the body?

Err, biology?

Proof Tsunade cannot control her own electrical pathways like she used electricity to mess up kabuto?

Because she's never shown such a thing?

No? Tsunade tanks. Not to mention there's something called dodge. Hiruzens new elemental streams were small and avoidable by the looks of it a decent side step would do it. Same for his shuriken. He doesn't have the stamina to keep up a spam either.

She doesn't tank when she's paralysed nor were Hiruzen's elemental streams small.

 

[Itachi75]

Hiruzen cuuuurrrrbbbstttomp Tsunade.
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Seriously, give Tsunade, Sakura, shizune, Ino, Kiba, and Sai, and Hiruzen would massacre them all.
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honestly these threads need to stop, Tsunade is fodder compared the other hokage.....
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I mean look at 662, and then show me one of tsunade's feats that even comes close to that.....
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honestly these tsunade fapboys are just terribly blind

 

[BlacLord™]

Tsunade, Hiruzen lacks the firepower and stamina to win or a stalemate with Shiki Fuujin.

Byakugou quite literally tanks those attacks, especially since she endured Madara's Susano'o's Kris stabbing her, followed by still going on the offensive, followed being hit at point-blank by the aforementioned's Yasaka Magatama. Not to mention surviving the Ethereal Transmission which under normal circumstances, would rip a person's body to shreds as noted by Mabui.

A few meagre basic elemental attacks aren't even coming close to finishing her.

And please people, refrain from the shuriken beheading, it's not a feat so let's keep it real.

 

[Icelerate]

@KidGamer and the rest of the Hiruzen backers, I agree Hiruzen beats her rather easily but the arguments in this thread made by you guys are quite deplorable. Not saying the arguments for Tsunade are any better because they are also very bad.

-Hiruzen is far superior in CQC, if she comes at him, she gets shitted on and smacked around by Enma just like Orochimaru did, but worse. It doesn't help that her moves are predictable as hell. [

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] Her being able to regen from it doesn't mean she isn't going to get her ass whooped.

What exactly backs the assumption that Hiruzen is far superior in CQC? The data book? No. Manga feats? Not really. Hype? Well Hiruzen is an all rounder whereas Tsunade is one who uses taijutsu and specialises in it, I doubt Hiruzen would shit on her in taijutsu as easily as you are making it out to be. I guess he overwhelmed Orochimaru in taijutsu but Oro was never a taijutsu oriented fighter and I do recall Tsunade defeating Orochimaru in a taijutsu boute. Not saying she can beat Hiruzen in taijutsu and not saying she can beat Oro in an actual fight.

-Even if she's about to land a punch, Hiruzen simply blocks her fist with Enma and its all dandy.

Enma gets knocked out of commission considering it

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and Hiruzen will feel his hand get jammed by the sheer force. Presumably, the force may be so great that Enma ends up impaling Hiruzen's body. Or Tsunade grabs Enma and throws it away and if Hiruzen decides to hang on to it,

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happens to him.

Katsuyu gets an 5 beyond Bijuu sized elemental jutsu combo to her face and that's a wrap, so I don't know why people even begin to think its a factor here.

This is true but while he does this, can't Tsunade assault him from behind while he is distracted by the giant slug and is being blinded by his own ninjutsu? It's a possibly IMO.

In fact he should be able to kill her, low-mid diff. The whole reason I always believed Tsunade would win is because Hiruzen would get outlasted due to Byakugo. She wasn't considered stronger than him in my book and she isn't now.

Sure edo Hiruzen or Prime Hiruzen should be able to kill her low-mid difficulty but old Hiruzen wins mid-high difficulty. However, before Hiruzen got his recent feats, Tsunade not only beat him rather easily but was overall stronger than him. I don't understand why you'd think otherwise. Anyhow Tsunade winning by attrition wouldn't make her weaker than old Hiruzen necessarily because it is quite possible that Hiruzen can get caught off guard like Kabuto, Oro and Madara did. They were faster than her but got caught off guard. Hell Asuma is faster than Hidan and got caught off guard before he ran out of chakra. Not to mention Tsunade has great destructive power, almost as great as Sakura's which can act as a defence and offence since a huge amount of earth was uprooted which can block Hiruzen's ninjutsu and line of sight. Not to mention it can possibly throw him off guard due to the sheer noise and debris flying around. Not to mention that Hiruzen tanking such a shockwaves or dodging them effortlessly probably won't happen if your scenario has him utilize Enma to take Tsunade on in CQC.

-Giant Shurikens should dismember her and a well placed one should bisect her.

I agree but only if the giant shuriken were infused with raiton or fuuton chakra. Without the elemental enhancement, shuriken aren't cutting through bones.

-A Suiton+Raiton combo should not only electrocute her because of the water mixed with electricity, the Raiton bolts should also rip her apart given the Nature's properties, which is piercing for pretty much almost every offensive based Raiton ability.

Piercing attacks aren't mean to decapitate, slicing attacks are. A raiton bolt may create a hole in Tsunade's body but that doesn't finish her off due to Byakogou. As for electrocution, well that is useless since Byakogou tanks electrocution unless you are talking about paralysis. If that is what you are talking about, than bare in mind that Tsunade has shown the ability to control the electrical signals in other people's body so I'm sure she has what it takes to prevent raiton from messing up the electrical signals in her nerves. Sasuke managed to resist raiton paralysis due to his ability to control raiton chakra. Tsunade hasn't shown skill in raiton release but she has shown skill in dealing with electrical signals within the nervous system.

I remember you saying base Tsunade shits on Darui but these arguments allow Darui to shit on full power Tsunade.

-Doton should smash her considering all it is are large ass boulders being fired out at a high velocity and large volume. Unless we think Byakugo will let her heal from being a stain in the dirt.

Okay now you are sounding like a Tsunade hater. Those boulders can push back Tsunade but Tsunade isn't turning into a stain in the dirt unless he manages to surround her from all sides with this attack and even then, can't Tsunade just jump above it? Now if Tsunade tries to keep chakra in her feat, the force may end up obliterating her body but if she allows herself to get smacked backwards, the kinetic energy within the attack will transfer into Tsunade as opposed to transferring into Tsunade as destructive energy. If these boulders are both large and come in large quantities, I could see Tsunade jumping and leaping on them while closing the distance.

-Using all these elements to hit her over and over again should cause her Byakugo chakra to run out very very quickly due to the sheer amount of chakra that will have to be wasted regenerating from his attacks, and since he's an Edo, he can use them indefinitely without worry of chakra levels.

I agree with this.

Adding on, I believe even old Hiruzen is too much for Tsunade because he can blind her with a katon while a clone of his creates a large number of giant shuriken. All the while another clone of Hiruzen's can infuse wind natured chakra to enhance the cutting ability of those giant shuriken.

As for the thread, since Hiruzen has infinite chakra, he wins scenarios 1 and 2 low-mid difficulty. He wins scenarios 3 and 4 mid difficulty. Jiraiya and Tsunade beat Hiruzen mid difficulty.

 

[Joshutsu]

Err, biology?


Because she's never shown such a thing?

She doesn't tank when she's paralysed nor were Hiruzen's elemental streams small.

1: That's not proof. I'm still waiting.

2. BPD proved Tsunade can change her chakra to electricity as she said that, which means that she could if she wanted send electrical charge through her own nervous system making any raiton based attack to paralyse her null and void. (of course not hitting herself before you mis interpret me, but control her own internally)

3.She does tank, because she is not paralyzed. Yes they were small in terms of width, you want to tell me that someone couldn't dodge that?

If you are banking Hiruzens win on paralysis/shuriken tech as a new thing it's not going to work. What's next?