[Spoilers] Sasuke Has Lost Any Connection To Naruto's Chakra

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Forgive me if you find this obvious, but many didn't since "The cloak is permanent and can be invisible to the naked eye".

Spoiler

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Ino only reacts to Naruto's "death", Karin is the only one who noticed Sasuke's. Ino is connected to everyone with the cloak via the Yamanaka clan's Shidenshin no Jutsu, she also loves (or loved) Sasuke, no reaction from her is telling.

 

[juzumaki]

how exactly do you know that ino wasnt reacting to sasuke getting stabbed through the heart

i guess heart would be wrong through the chest

 

[Chīkara]

Only Naruto fanboys denied it. It was kinda obvious.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Only Naruto fanboys denied it. It was kinda obvious.

Yeah, I just notice it floating around every now and then.

how exactly do you know that ino wasnt reacting to sasuke getting stabbed through the heart

i guess heart would be wrong through the chest

Because sequence of events make it unlikely that she's noticing Sasuke. Everybody starts reacting to Naruto immediately after, leading the reader to put that 2 & 2 together.

 

[Champ]

Another proof Kurama chakra didn't help Sasuke cover the Kyuubi in Susano'o.

 

[Oblivionx]

what i don't understand is why is hell is cloak still there??

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Another proof Kurama chakra didn't help Sasuke cover the Kyuubi in Susano'o.

Yeah, Sasuke was never drained of the cloak only for it to come back later like the others, his was forcibly removed by Obito. Which is why his is gone while the others still have theirs. Since that point, everything Sasuke has done has been without it.

what i don't understand is why is hell is cloak still there??

I have no idea. Everybody is drained but apparently the cloak is just kinda around now. Kishi might just be using it to contrast with Sasuke, to make it obvious that he doesn't have it any longer.

 

[adeshina365]

Hopefully now people will stop attributing Sasuke's feats to the Kyuubi cloak.

This is especially important since Sasuke is bound to achieve new feats in chapter 663 when he receives a new power-up. I would hate to have fanboys saying that he couldn't do X without the Kyuubi cloak.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Hopefully now people will stop attributing Sasuke's feats to the Kyuubi cloak.

This is especially important since Sasuke is bound to achieve new feats in chapter 663 when he receives a new power-up. I would hate to have fanboys saying that he couldn't do X without the Kyuubi cloak.

Even if he does get Rinnegan or whatever, the fanboys will still probably say that he can't use it without Naruto's chakra.

 

[adeshina365]

Even if he does get Rinnegan or whatever, the fanboys will still probably say that he can't use it without Naruto's chakra.

I don't understand people who think that way, do they really think that Sasuke (Naruto's rival), will only power-up because of Naruto? It's a completely ridiculous assertion.

Anyways, I hope Sasuke receives a power-up that is different from the Rinnegan. As I've always said, Sasuke becoming a Madara clone won't do anyone any good. I think this would be a great time for Sasuke to obtain a Senjutsu power-up. With him being very close to the verge of death, a sudden influx of Senjutsu would heal him; whilst also powering him up.

I have a feeling that something special will happen once an EMS user who is fully compatible with Senjutsu (and can release the power perfectly), takes in a large amount of natural energy. My guess is that the near death experience that Sasuke is experiencing will be the trigger to activating the Jugo cells in his chest (or maybe an innate ability).

If there is anything we can be sure about, it's that Sasuke (and possibly Naruto) are bound to get power-up(s) in chapter 663.

I say possibly Naruto because I think that what will happen with him before he gets a major power-up, is that he will get the other half of the Kyuubi sealed in him; he'll probably meet Jiraiya in his mind as well. I think he'll be given time to recuperate before he gets back into action.

In contrast, not only does Sasuke have to fend of his injury, he also has Madara standing a few meters away from him. Sasuke will have to fight immediately.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

I don't understand people who think that way, do they really think that Sasuke (Naruto's rival), will only power-up because of Naruto? It's a completely ridiculous assertion.

Anyways, I hope Sasuke receives a power-up that is different from the Rinnegan. As I've always said, Sasuke becoming a Madara clone won't do anyone any good. I think this would be a great time for Sasuke to obtain a Senjutsu power-up. With him being very close to the verge of death, a sudden influx of Senjutsu would heal him; whilst also powering him up.

I have a feeling that something special will happen once an EMS user who is fully compatible with Senjutsu (and can release the power perfectly), takes in a large amount of natural energy. My guess is that the near death experience that Sasuke is experiencing will be the trigger to activating the Jugo cells in his chest (or maybe an innate ability).

If there is anything we can be sure about, it's that Sasuke (and possibly Naruto) are bound to get power-up(s) in chapter 663.

I say possibly Naruto because I think that what will happen with him before he gets a major power-up, is that he will get the other half of the Kyuubi sealed in him; he'll probably meet Jiraiya in his mind as well. I think he'll be given time to recuperate before he gets back into action.

In contrast, not only does Sasuke have to fend of his injury, he also has Madara standing a few meters away from him. Sasuke will have to fight immediately.

That's very insightful. Never thought of that but now that you mention it, that makes a lot of sense. The point of contact is mostly made up of Juugo's cells, perhaps Juugo might do something remotely, or the Senjutsu chakra within them will help Sasuke somehow resist the injury?

I've always thought that the "deaths" of Naruto and Sasuke are merely plot devices to increase both of their power's greatly in a short manner, and give others some panel time in between. Not sure what exactly, but I do feel that if Naruto picks up the other half of the Kyuubi, Sasuke will get the Rinnegan. Never liked the idea much either, but if Kishi is breaking his Yin vs Yang spiel, I don't see him working it in for one and not the other.

EDIT: Every time I try to rep you I need to spread. I think I've only repped you once too, gah I don't rep enough.

 

[adeshina365]

That's very insightful. Never thought of that but now that you mention it, that makes a lot of sense. The point of contact is mostly made up of Juugo's cells, perhaps Juugo might do something remotely, or the Senjutsu chakra within them will help Sasuke somehow resist the injury?

Karin has just been alerted of Sasuke's condition so it's possible that Jugo will arrive on the scene, but I doubt it considering that Madara is in the vicinity and is looking to deal a finishing blow to Sasuke. This is why I think that a Senjutsu related power-up would have to occur without any outside influence (bar the dormant cells in his chest).

I've always thought that the "deaths" of Naruto and Sasuke are merely plot devices to increase both of their power's greatly in a short manner, and give others some panel time in between. Not sure what exactly, but I do feel that if Naruto picks up the other half of the Kyuubi, Sasuke will get the Rinnegan. Never liked the idea much either, but if Kishi is breaking his Yin vs Yang spiel, I don't see him working it in for one and not the other.

Yep, they are definitely plot devices. Increasing Sasuke's (and Naruto's) strength to the level where they can compete with Rinnegan Madara isn't possible with training with the short time they have. We'll likely have a situation in which neither Naruto or Sasuke has completely mastered their base abilities (abilities pre-power(up)) before gaining new ones.

I also don't think that Naruto getting the other half (or chakra) of the Kyuubi will be his 'real' power-up. I think it will just be there to tide him over until he gets his Rikudo-esque power. I still see Naruto spending a little while to recover from his injuries; this would also be a good time for him to talk to Jiraiya again.

Putting my own personal biases aside, the other reason I don't think that Sasuke will gain the Rinnegan is because of how ineffective it would be against Madara. Ineffective in the sense that Sasuke would be a new Rinnegan user facing the more experienced Madara. Obtaining the Rinnegan also wouldn't solve the problem of Sasuke's current physical condition; Senjutsu would. Many will say that Senjutsu won't be enough to defeat Madara, but I could see Sasuke gaining a new Doujutsu (new pinnacle of yin powers) as a result of it, that could potentially provide an additional move set which would counteract the Rinnegan. The idea of a new Doujutsu is relatively far-fetched, but I have a 'gut feeling' that it's going to happen.

I should also say that I'm still of the belief that the Juubi itself will be the final villain (which Naruto will mostly take care of), and that Madara will be solely defeated by Sasuke. It's a bold statement, but it would be a perfect way to setup Naruto vs. Sasuke. Sasuke hasn't had a "real" solo victory since his fight against Danzou.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Karin has just been alerted of Sasuke's condition so it's possible that Jugo will arrive on the scene, but I doubt it considering that Madara is in the vicinity and is looking to deal a finishing blow to Sasuke. This is why I think that a Senjutsu related power-up would have to occur without any outside influence (bar the dormant cells in his chest).

Interesting thought, though I'm unsure of how things will play out. I feel as though the wound's placement has some meaning, whether it be that Juugo's flesh itself is more resilient, allowing him to survive where most would surely be dead, or your supposition, will be interesting to find out. Though I do prefer your theory.

Which also gets me thinking, as Orochimaru knows Sasuke has Juugo's cells within him, perhaps he'll use some of Juugo's enzymes which allow Sage Transformation in order to save him, or he may have implanted some already, dormant, as a fail safe, were he to get a little too close to deaths door.

Yep, they are definitely plot devices. Increasing Sasuke's (and Naruto's) strength to the level where they can compete with Rinnegan Madara isn't possible with training with the short time they have. We'll likely have a situation in which neither Naruto or Sasuke has completely mastered their base abilities (abilities pre-power(up)) before gaining new ones.

I also don't think that Naruto getting the other half (or chakra) of the Kyuubi will be his 'real' power-up. I think it will just be there to tide him over until he gets his Rikudo-esque power. I still see Naruto spending a little while to recover from his injuries; this would also be a good time for him to talk to Jiraiya again.

Putting my own personal biases aside, the other reason I don't think that Sasuke will gain the Rinnegan is because of how ineffective it would be against Madara. Ineffective in the sense that Sasuke would be a new Rinnegan user facing the more experienced Madara. Obtaining the Rinnegan also wouldn't solve the problem of Sasuke's current physical condition; Senjutsu would. Many will say that Senjutsu won't be enough to defeat Madara, but I could see Sasuke gaining a new Doujutsu (new pinnacle of yin powers) as a result of it, that could potentially provide an additional move set which would counteract the Rinnegan. The idea of a new Doujutsu is relatively far-fetched, but I have a 'gut feeling' that it's going to happen.

I should also say that I'm still of the belief that the Juubi itself will be the final villain (which Naruto will mostly take care of), and that Madara will be solely defeated by Sasuke. It's a bold statement, but it would be a perfect way to setup Naruto vs. Sasuke. Sasuke hasn't had a "real" solo victory since his fight against Danzou.

Well, the Rin'negan would at least allow Sasuke to cancel out Madara's abilities one by one, and copy techniques as he sees them. Though Madara's stronger handle on the Rin'negan will be difficult to overcome. To be honest, I'm really not a fan of it. If he were to gain the Rin'negan, I'd at least hoped it would be much later in the story, as we've barely had any showcase of Sasuke's EMS Jutsu's at this point, which annoys me to no end. Up until now, I've never considered the Rin'negan even a remote possibility, but it seems a good answer to how Sasuke is going to have a chance against Madara at this point.

If Naruto and Sasuke were to have reached the pinnacle of their Yin (EMS) and Yang (Biju Mode) powers, then the characters have no room left for growth if we're sticking to that agenda. I'd like to believe that there is further (for Sasuke in particular) that they can push as embodiment's of Yin and Yang respectively but I'm not so sure. Do you have any theories on how exactly they can further push that envelope? Aside from Senjutsu, as we've already discussed. The elder sons' eyes is rather interesting as well, but I feel the lack of focus leads one to believe that they're unimportant to the plot.

 

[adeshina365]

Well, the Rin'negan would at least allow Sasuke to cancel out Madara's abilities one by one, and copy techniques as he sees them. Though Madara's stronger handle on the Rin'negan will be difficult to overcome. To be honest, I'm really not a fan of it. If he were to gain the Rin'negan, I'd at least hoped it would be much later in the story, as we've barely had any showcase of Sasuke's EMS Jutsu's at this point, which annoys me to no end. Up until now, I've never considered the Rin'negan even a remote possibility, but it seems a good answer to how Sasuke is going to have a chance against Madara at this point.

You're right in that Sasuke could cancel Madara's jutsu with the same abilities of the Rinnegan, but that would be quite difficulty to pull off considering that Sasuke would have no experience with the Doujutsu on top of having less power behind its abilities. Getting the Rinnegan also wouldn't help Sasuke heal from his current wounds.

I'm thinking about a Doujutsu that would allow Sasuke to counter Madara in a water>fire sense. He needs abilities which won't be readily countered by Preta Path.

If Naruto and Sasuke were to have reached the pinnacle of their Yin (EMS) and Yang (Biju Mode) powers, then the characters have no room left for growth if we're sticking to that agenda. I'd like to believe that there is further (for Sasuke in particular) that they can push as embodiment's of Yin and Yang respectively but I'm not so sure. Do you have any theories on how exactly they can further push that envelope? Aside from Senjutsu, as we've already discussed. The elder sons' eyes is rather interesting as well, but I feel the lack of focus leads one to believe that they're unimportant to the plot.

I should have clarified that when I was referring to pinnacle that I was referring to it in a hierarchical sense; that Sasuke would gain a Doujutsu which would provide him with heightened yin energies that would be above the EMS (which is tied with the Rinnegan). Both Naruto and Sasuke will still have room for refinement.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Elder Son's Doujutsu; the Juubi's eyes are also a possibility (I wouldn't bet on it though). Either way, it's obvious that there is going to be a serious ass pull required for Naruto and Sasuke to come back from the brink of the dead and gain new power-ups.

Lastly, I anticipate that whatever power that Sasuke gains, it's going to have to be big enough that Madara will be pushed back for a short period of time. Situations like that are fairly common place in not just Naruto, but Shonen in general.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

You're right in that Sasuke could cancel Madara's jutsu with the same abilities of the Rinnegan, but that would be quite difficulty to pull off considering that Sasuke would have no experience with the Doujutsu on top of having less power behind its abilities. Getting the Rinnegan also wouldn't help Sasuke heal from his current wounds.

I'm thinking about a Doujutsu that would allow Sasuke to counter Madara in a water>fire sense. He needs abilities which won't be readily countered by Preta Path.

Ah, I was referring to Sage Transformation being the key to keeping him alive, as Juugo's flesh within him may allow the healing abilities that come with it, rather than the deterioration he felt with the second state of the Curse Mark. That is, if Orochimaru has some tricks up his sleeve, which is usually a safe bet. Regardless, the Rin'negan would still be quite helpful in the battle, especially if Sasuke has two while Madara has one.

I should have clarified that when I was referring to pinnacle that I was referring to it in a hierarchical sense; that Sasuke would gain a Doujutsu which would provide him with heightened yin energies that would be above the EMS (which is tied with the Rinnegan). Both Naruto and Sasuke will still have room for refinement.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Elder Son's Doujutsu; the Juubi's eyes are also a possibility (I wouldn't bet on it though). Either way, it's obvious that there is going to be a serious ass pull required for Naruto and Sasuke to come back from the brink of the dead and gain new power-ups.

Lastly, I anticipate that whatever power that Sasuke gains, it's going to have to be big enough that Madara will be pushed back for a short period of time. Situations like that are fairly common place in not just Naruto, but Shonen in general.

Hm, possibly, perhaps lacking known abilities makes it difficult for me to comprehend. How exactly do you see this new Doujutsu matching or out doing it's parent? I mean, I've had a long belief that Sage Transformation would be Sasuke's greater potential than Madara, but now that he's hijacked Sage Mode off of Hashirama, it seems less likely.

Instead, I now shift focus on Sasuke simply becoming better than Madara, in everything that he does. Which, I didn't care much for, becoming a Madara clone, as you said, would simply be redundant, though originality has never been Sasuke's strong suit. Every Jutsu he's ever used, aside from Kagu-Tsuchi, has been done before. So, I'm starting to see some appeal in Sasuke simply doing everything better than it's been done before. Sasuke has almost always done worse than has been done before, his Chidori is lesser than Kakashi's (at least the versus debates seem adamant on that), his Susano'o is lesser than Itachi's since he doesn't have the spiritual weapons, Itachi's genjutsu is as far above his as the clouds are to the ground. For him to finally leave others shadows, and out due the best, would be a pretty sweet outcome. I would actually like things to head in either direction at this point, it can work either way.

 

[adeshina365]

Ah, I was referring to Sage Transformation being the key to keeping him alive, as Juugo's flesh within him may allow the healing abilities that come with it, rather than the deterioration he felt with the second state of the Curse Mark. That is, if Orochimaru has some tricks up his sleeve, which is usually a safe bet. Regardless, the Rin'negan would still be quite helpful in the battle, especially if Sasuke has two while Madara has one.

I can agree with this, though I'm still hoping that Kishimoto has something else up his sleeve.

Hm, possibly, perhaps lacking known abilities makes it difficult for me to comprehend. How exactly do you see this new Doujutsu matching or out doing it's parent? I mean, I've had a long belief that Sage Transformation would be Sasuke's greater potential than Madara, but now that he's hijacked Sage Mode off of Hashirama, it seems less likely.

In all honesty, I can't really fully predict what a new Doujutsu can be capable of seeing that Kishimoto can come up with anything really, but S/T Ninjutsu should be fairly effective against Madara. I remember a while back that some predicted that Sasuke would gain the ability to temporarily slow/hasten time. Even against Madara that would prove to be fairly effective. If Sasuke is to gain a new Doujutsu, it would make sense that he would gain an ability more haxed than Amaterasu, but more importantly Kamui.

On the topic of Senjutsu in general, BlinkST has a pretty interesting idea

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. It's possible that Preta Path won't be effective against a "living" Susanoo.

Instead, I now shift focus on Sasuke simply becoming better than Madara, in everything that he does. Which, I didn't care much for, becoming a Madara clone, as you said, would simply be redundant, though originality has never been Sasuke's strong suit. Every Jutsu he's ever used, aside from Kagu-Tsuchi, has been done before. So, I'm starting to see some appeal in Sasuke simply doing everything better than it's been done before. Sasuke has almost always done worse than has been done before, his Chidori is lesser than Kakashi's (at least the versus debates seem adamant on that), his Susano'o is lesser than Itachi's since he doesn't have the spiritual weapons, Itachi's genjutsu is as far above his as the clouds are to the ground. For him to finally leave others shadows, and out due the best, would be a pretty sweet outcome. I would actually like things to head in either direction at this point, it can work either way.

I would agree with this, but only if we were dealing with the Sasuke of old. I think that Orochimaru's statements about Sasuke not being the child that him, Itachi and Tobi could easily manipulate is highly important in not just a character development perspective, but also a power perspective.

The Sasuke of old could be easily manipulated in terms of character and belief; this was reciprocated in his ability set if you really think about it. I think Sasuke having similar abilities as the authority figures in his life was another way for Kishimoto to stress this. In contrast, the Sasuke of new is vastly different. In a sense, he's "become his own man". I believe that this will be highlighted by his new power-up.

This is why I think his new power-up will be something that is unique to him, and purely Uchiha.

 

[Transcendence]

@adeshina365

I have a couple of new sentiments regarding Naruto and Sasuke in the immediate future. I reaffirm my stance on Naruto's powers. Rikudou-esque cloak via the Bijuu's which will be Pseudo 10 tails Jin-like with the Rinnegan (I'll explain). As you yourself exclaimed, Sasuke will quite clearly be the one to take the front seat in the battle against Madara, as Obito was Naruto's parallel, Madara is Sasuke's. In this case, the Juubi will most likely become the true final villain, and the dichotomy of the savior (Rikudou) and destroyer (Juubi) would be replayed, this time by Naruto as Rikudou, with similar power (Similar body with the Pseudo 10 tails Cloak and the Rinnegan) and the Rinnegan needed to split up the Juubi thereafter (access to Yin-Yang release which is a gateway to Banbutsu Sozo).

I thought over the concept of Sasuke being similar to Kabuto and what he did with Juugo's cells, but this time on a larger scale, and the jutsu/chakra Hashirama gave to Sasuke could play a part in this whole thing. Sasuke already has his own dormant cells from Juugo via the life transfer tecnique when they battle Kirabi. This is a similar situation, but more dire. Sasuke will most likely gain MORE of Juugo's flesh and affinity for Sennin transformaion, but to control it, he would need the necessary requisites for it; in comes Hashirama's chakra. Said chakra is correlated to Senjutsu, as Hashirama's intention was to use the technique to bind Madara. Said chakra most likely will let Sasuke balance nature chakra and utilize Juugo's abilities by himself, indefinitely given the context of Juugo's clans abilities in relation to Sennin transformation. Furthermore, as I said to Robot in a previous thread of his, it's quite possible that the Elder Son had some kind of Sennin transformation, as he clearly has markings on his eyes indicative of such. This could be the key to changing the Eien No Mangekyou into the Elder Son's Dojutsu. As the Rinnegan is a balance of Yin and Yang, the ESD may be dominant Yin, with Senjutsu, which alters the eyes, transforming them, similar to how Sasuke's area around his eyes in the battle of the VOTE in Part 1 changed when he went in to Curse Mark V2.​

 

[adeshina365]

@adeshina365

I have a couple of new sentiments regarding Naruto and Sasuke in the immediate future. I reaffirm my stance on Naruto's powers. Rikudou-esque cloak via the Bijuu's which will be Pseudo 10 tails Jin-like with the Rinnegan (I'll explain). As you yourself exclaimed, Sasuke will quite clearly be the one to take the front seat in the battle against Madara, as Obito was Naruto's parallel, Madara is Sasuke's. In this case, the Juubi will most likely become the true final villain, and the dichotomy of the savior (Rikudou) and destroyer (Juubi) would be replayed, this time by Naruto as Rikudou, with similar power (Similar body with the Pseudo 10 tails Cloak and the Rinnegan) and the Rinnegan needed to split up the Juubi thereafter (access to Yin-Yang release which is a gateway to Banbutsu Sozo).​

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Naruto is bound to gain Rikudo-esque powers, and I'm also confident that the Juubi will be the

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. Where we are divergent on is whether or not Naruto will obtain a Rinnegan; I still don't think that will occur, but we'll see.

I thought over the concept of Sasuke being similar to Kabuto and what he did with Juugo's cells, but this time on a larger scale, and the jutsu/chakra Hashirama gave to Sasuke could play a part in this whole thing. Sasuke already has his own dormant cells from Juugo via the life transfer tecnique when they battle Kirabi. This is a similar situation, but more dire. Sasuke will most likely gain MORE of Juugo's flesh and affinity for Sennin transformaion, but to control it, he would need the necessary requisites for it; in comes Hashirama's chakra. Said chakra is correlated to Senjutsu, as Hashirama's intention was to use the technique to bind Madara. Said chakra most likely will let Sasuke balance nature chakra and utilize Juugo's abilities by himself, indefinitely given the context of Juugo's clans abilities in relation to Sennin transformation. Furthermore, as I said to Robot in a previous thread of his, it's quite possible that the Elder Son had some kind of Sennin transformation, as he clearly has markings on his eyes indicative of such. This could be the key to changing the Eien No Mangekyou into the Elder Son's Dojutsu. As the Rinnegan is a balance of Yin and Yang, the ESD may be dominant Yin, with Senjutsu, which alters the eyes, transforming them, similar to how Sasuke's area around his eyes in the battle of the VOTE in Part 1 changed when he went in to Curse Mark V2.​

Spoiler

I'm confident that the Elder Son was definitely imploying the use of Senjutsu.

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Fully agreed, I actually just noticed that in the latest chapter that Madara was walking away from Sasuke P). This creates an opening for Orochimaru and co. to attend to Sasuke. Though I'm still confident that Sasuke's

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will be a catalyst for this to occur.

The Elder Son's Doujutsu as a power-up would be the best case scenario in my opinion.

 

[Oksus]

Sasuage-fest ?

As a Naruto fan, I find that Sasuke's feats got nothing to do with Chakra Cloak.... however I still do not believe he has PS.

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuage-fest ?

As a Naruto fan, I find that Sasuke's feats got nothing to do with Chakra Cloak.... however I still do not believe he has PS.

1.

Spoiler

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2.

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Spoiler

Here you can see that Sasuke's Susanoo has to compress down to fit Naruto's Kurama avatar:

Spoiler

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Also take a look at this:

Spoiler

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The additional Susanoo arm that Sasuke produces is significantly larger than the Kyuubi's arm and it isn't even armored. His PS is undoubtedly larger than Naruto's Kurama avatar.