PNJ is a necessity.

Shadow Phantasm

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He was not handed out power ups. He trained to get sage mode and wind style. He fought Kurama to get KCM and he trained with KCM. He befriended Kurama to get BM (and it wasn't sudden. Remember, Kurama started warming up to Naruto after Naruto escaped turtle island when he said that he wanted to do something about Kurama's hatred. Kurama even stopped taking chakara from Naruto. Then, Kurama willingly helped Naruto against Madara. The foreshadowing for Bijuu mode and Naruto/Kurama's friendship was plentiful.) As for BSM, that was simply combining 2 powers that he already had.
I was'nt talking about Naruto.I was mostly speaking about how the Shinobi Alliance were given Kyuubi cloaks because the plot called for it,or how Sasuke just able to use CM Susanoo and later Perfect Susanoo without training for it.
 

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Your getting the wrong idea of PnJ. :| PnJ is when there is an OP character losing to a character who is seemingly weaker than him. hmm Examples from the manga/anime include: Obito Vs Kakashi, Madara Vs Hashirama, Izuna Vs Tobirama, Pein Vs Naruto, Nagato Vs Itachi, Shisui Vs Danzo and Sasuke Vs Danzo. :eww:

or when that main character lives a blow that should have killed him

example

chidori thur the heart
 

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I was'nt talking about Naruto.I was mostly speaking about how the Shinobi Alliance were given Kyuubi cloaks because the plot called for it,or how Sasuke just able to use CM Susanoo and later Perfect Susanoo without training for it.

I am back. Anyway, the Kyuubi cloaks aren't PNJ because they were an ability that Naruto already had. He could give out Kurama's chakara. The cloaks were just a result of giving out more chakara. Plus, the cloaks were apart of Shikaku's final plan. Kishi did not make this up on the fly. Therefore it was not PNJ. It was an actual strategy. As for CM susanoo, Juugo simply gave him that power. It is not like Sasuke can suddenly do it on his own, so it is not PNJ. It was not sudden either because the manga had established in the Kabuto fight that the curse mode was senjutsu. As for perfect susanoo, Sasuke may have been training with EMS off screen. Remember when he killed white zetsu before escaping mountain's graveyard. He said stuff like "I might try outside" and "These eyes see fine in the darkness". These lines and the fact that he already had susanoo and blaze release active when we got to this scene implies that he may have been training off screen with his EMS. After this scene, we didn't see Sasuke again for a while and he had just said "I might try outside". During this time, he may have been training w/ EMS. After all, not all training has to be on screen.
 

AlphaScythian

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PNJ has been heavily abused in this manga, me thinks
 

Shadow Phantasm

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I am back. Anyway, the Kyuubi cloaks aren't PNJ because they were an ability that Naruto already had. He could give out Kurama's chakara. The cloaks were just a result of giving out more chakara. Plus, the cloaks were apart of Shikaku's final plan. Kishi did not make this up on the fly. Therefore it was not PNJ. It was an actual strategy. As for CM susanoo, Juugo simply gave him that power. It is not like Sasuke can suddenly do it on his own, so it is not PNJ. It was not sudden either because the manga had established in the Kabuto fight that the curse mode was senjutsu. As for perfect susanoo, Sasuke may have been training with EMS off screen. Remember when he killed white zetsu before escaping mountain's graveyard. He said stuff like "I might try outside" and "These eyes see fine in the darkness". These lines and the fact that he already had susanoo and blaze release active when we got to this scene implies that he may have been training off screen with his EMS. After this scene, we didn't see Sasuke again for a while and he had just said "I might try outside". During this time, he may have been training w/ EMS. After all, not all training has to be on screen.

Madara had his EMS for years yet he did'nt get PS shortly after acquiring his eyes like Sasuke did.Kishi simply gave Sasuke PS in order for him to be Naruto's equal without him working for it.As for the Kyuubi cloaks....let's be honest here the Shinobi Alliance would've been dead 100 times over if that convenient power up was'nt granted to them.
 

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Ofcourse it is. Other wise you can't beat OP opponents
 

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PNJ has been heavily abused in this manga, me thinks

No it hasn't. Fans just get mad every time a new development comes about and blame it on PNJ. I mean really. I bet if Naruto picked up a sandwich and ate it, people would call that PNJ. They'd say "That tomato was PNJ!".
 

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No it hasn't. Fans just get mad every time a new development comes about and blame it on PNJ. I mean really. I bet if Naruto picked up a sandwich and ate it, people would call that PNJ. They'd say "That tomato was PNJ!".
He has a point....there are many things in this arc that are just downright ridiculus.
 

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Madara had his EMS for years yet he did'nt get PS shortly after acquiring his eyes like Sasuke did.Kishi simply gave Sasuke PS in order for him to be Naruto's equal without him working for it.As for the Kyuubi cloaks....let's be honest here the Shinobi Alliance would've been dead 100 times over if that convenient power up was'nt granted to them.

About the Madara thing: We don't know that. The manga never revealed when he got perfect susanoo.

About the cloaks: You are right that they would have been dead 100 times over, but the fact of the matter is, Shikaku planned for Naruto to give them these cloaks so that they wouldn't die. Therefore it wasn't just plot. It was smart planning on Shikaku's part. If you plan for something, then it is not just PNJ. It would be pure PNj if the cloaks just randomly appeared over everyone and nobody (including Naruto and Kurama) knew where they came from.
 

Shadow Phantasm

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About the Madara thing: We don't know that. The manga never revealed when he got perfect susanoo.

About the cloaks: You are right that they would have been dead 100 times over, but the fact of the matter is, Shikaku planned for Naruto to give them these cloaks so that they wouldn't die. Therefore it wasn't just plot. It was smart planning on Shikaku's part. If you plan for something, then it is not just PNJ. It would be pure PNj if the cloaks just randomly appeared over everyone and nobody (including Naruto and Kurama) knew where they came from.
Did'nt that kinda happen when the cloaks were drained by the Juubi?Also what about the fact that the Konoha 10 just happened to get BM cloaks as well?

By the time Madara fought Onoki and Muu he had already had his EMS for some time now and also unlocked PS.Sasuke however had even less time(which is several days at most)with his EMS so there is no way he should have PS.
 

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You could..... but then that would require putting effort into making their defeat look plausible.

What opponents' defeats have been implausible? Face it. Your definition of plausible is: The hero dies. The end.
 

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Characters only think and have their powers because of PNJ, without plot they wouldn't exist.
 

Shadow Phantasm

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Like what? What has been ridiculous? Tell me anything and I'll explain it.
Let's see....the bijuu playing ping pong with Madara and the latter surviving,Naruto using BM despite being out of chakra in the previous chapter and so on.
 

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Did'nt that kinda happen when the cloaks were drained by the Juubi?Also what about the fact that the Konoha 10 just happened to get BM cloaks as well?

By the time Madara fought Onoki and Muu he had already had his EMS for some time now and also unlocked PS.Sasuke however had even less time(which is several days at most)with his EMS so there is no way he should have PS.

1. Are you talking about when the cloaks reappeared over everyone when everyone got warped away from those bijuudamas? If so, then that still wasn't plot no jutsu. That one came from Naruto's plan. Again: Smart planning, not plot. As for the BM cloaks, I don't even see the big deal about that. All the Konoha 10 did was guide some rasengans. They could have done that in base state. The cloaks were basically just cool looking jackets in that instant.

2. All you are saying here is that Madara had EMS for a long time and he had PS at this time. That doesn't mean that he first got it at this time. Once again I say, we don't know when he got it. He could have gotten it long before this time. Plus, Sasuke's progress is not governed by Madara's. Think of it this way. Just because it took one person 5 years to grasp Calculus does not mean that someone else couldn't grasp it in one year.
 

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Let's see....the bijuu playing ping pong with Madara and the latter surviving,Naruto using BM despite being out of chakra in the previous chapter and so on.

1. Madara is very durable. He also has Senju DNA.
2. Naruto never technically said that he was out of chakara. We just assumed that based on his appearance. Also, Kurama gathers chakara too.
 

Shadow Phantasm

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1. Madara is very durable. He also has Senju DNA.
2. Naruto never technically said that he was out of chakara. We just assumed that based on his appearance. Also, Kurama gathers chakara too.

Madara may be durable but to survive being hit by all nine bijuu at once?Only someone like the Third Raikage could be capable of feats like that.Also Naruto was pretty worn out which is why he could'nt do anything when Madara absorbed Hashirama's Sage Mode.
 
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Madara may be durable but to surviving being hit by all nine bijuu at once?Only someone like the Third Raikage could be capable of feats like that.Also Naruto was pretty worn out which is why he could'nt do anything when Madara absorbed Hashirama's Sage Mode.

That is only your assumption that only the third raikage could survive it. The manga never said "Only the 3rd raikage can survive being hit by all 9 bijuus". As for Madara absorbing Hashirama's chakara, Naruto was on the ground. Remember, Madara speed blitzed and bowled over Naruto and Sai. That is why Naruto couldn't help Hashirama. Also, worn out doesn't mean out of chakara. You could be worn out from running a mile, but still have chakara. Plus Naruto didn't appear in the very beginning of the chapter. It was toward the end. Therefore he may have had a minute or two of rest.
 
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