Justifying Kishi's Mistakes

[Raekwon26]

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Again, losing the light in your eyes doesn't mean you lose the ability to use the tech.

Let's just wait and see.

 

[Transcendence]

Again, losing the light in your eyes doesn't mean you lose the ability to use the tech.

Let's just wait and see.

But that's the point. They are of similar circumstances. Itachi didn't have any Mangekyou activated and was still maintaining Susano'o. As did Madara.

 

[Tobby17]

Invalid assertion. Susano'o doesn't require direct eye contact, or the need to use the eyes to actually activate it. You only need the Mangekyou to awaken it. Susano'o is purely linked to the users chakra, as noted by Karin, when Sasuke first awakened Susano'o, his chakra was darker, not his eyes. Itachi himself was borderline blind, had no Mangekyou activated, and still maintained Susano'o against Sasuke. This was hundreds of chapters ago. It most likely also treads on the users proficiency with the technique. Madara has had Susano'o for would be nearly 100 hundred years. You think he wouldn't figure out something like that? That it's linked to the chakra, rather than the eyes? Susano'o is a manifestation of the users chakra...

then why did Madara want Sasuke's eyes last chapter despite being able to sense??.. why is losing eyesight such a big deal without for Uchihas???.. When has it ever been implied that Susanoo can be used without eyes?, see you're doing exactly what I'm saying, trying to justify Kishi's mistake..

If I had told you last two weeks that Sasuke will be able to fight Naruto with Susanoo even if he has no eyes, you would have called me a troll

 

[-Spoiler-]

The fight where he is completely blind but still solo's sasuke's Kirin.

he wasnt completely blind and he could still see sasuke they was even a first person view. once his eyes started to deteriorate the susanoo started to fade and its not the same thing madara didnt have any form of eyes.

 

[Raekwon26]

But that's the point. They are of similar circumstances. Itachi didn't have any Mangekyou activated and was still maintaining Susano'o. As did Madara.

Not really.
Losing the light in his eyes does not mean the MS is not activated, that was never stated. All that was stated is that you go blind and lose your sight, not abilities.

Madara literally had no eyes.
Again, let's just wait and see.

 

[Meee]

The fact Sasukes Susanoo disappeared when he became blind but this dude could use it with no eyes was straight up lame to me, But I don't really care, Kishi can explain it, whatevs.

 

[End of Days]

Nothing wrong with a blind man wanting some eyes, why shouldn't he if he can see again

And sharingan comes with benefits like movement prediction and genjutsu, genjutsu specially useful when dealing with bijuus

 

[AGoodBoy]

I agree, Susano'o has to be a plothole. If it isn't then that's beyond retarded. WTF is the point of going blind then? This means that people who overuse their MS and go blind can still use susano'o? then wtf is the downside of MS seeing as susano'o is it's best abilities? :s

 

[Hipster Madara]

That is Madara's chakra, not susanno. He can just control it to look like susanoo cuz he is boss.

*poker face*

 

[Raekwon26]

I agree, Susano'o has to be a plothole. If it isn't then that's beyond retarded. WTF is the point of going blind then? This means that people who overuse their MS and go blind can still use susano'o? then wtf is the downside of MS seeing as susano'o is it's best abilities? :s

Downside?
Not being able to see.
The pain caused by over-use.

 

[Pwner10144]

then why did Madara want Sasuke's eyes last chapter despite being able to sense??.. why is losing eyesight such a big deal without for Uchihas???.. When has it ever been implied that Susanoo can be used without eyes?, see you're doing exactly what I'm saying, trying to justify Kishi's mistake..

If I had told you last two weeks that Sasuke will be able to fight Naruto with Susanoo even if he has no eyes, you would have called me a troll

How many times do you plan to ask the same impatient questions, if you where blind Madara, would you not wish to have a fresh set of eyes?, going blind has the biggest repercussion, you have to rely on your sense, in this case hashi's sage mode to defend and attack, as for you other questions, let's wait for Wednesday and see if we get any clarification on the matter.

Edit: plot holes are inevitable, however slight they may be.

 

[rollin]

I agree, Susano'o has to be a plothole. If it isn't then that's beyond retarded. WTF is the point of going blind then? This means that people who overuse their MS and go blind can still use susano'o? then wtf is the downside of MS seeing as susano'o is it's best abilities? :s

No
Madara has ems and sasuke was going blind from using it with ms
That's probably the reason why you get ems
Sasuke went blind from over using it,madara is blind from not having his eyes

 

[Frikid]

then why did Madara want Sasuke's eyes last chapter despite being able to sense??.. why is losing eyesight such a big deal without for Uchihas???.. When has it ever been implied that Susanoo can be used without eyes?, see you're doing exactly what I'm saying, trying to justify Kishi's mistake..

If I had told you last two weeks that Sasuke will be able to fight Naruto with Susanoo even if he has no eyes, you would have called me a troll

yes, i have the same thoughts.

It was never implied that susano can be used without MS. And if anyone in the base stated something like that he would be called an idiot and would be treated worse than the regular trolls we have on the base.
In fact the guys who are justifying kishi would call those people, trolls.

If susano can be used without the use of sharingan than why did 99% of time was it used with sharingan.
Why is it that EMS unlocks a higher level of susano ?

susano being used without MS/EMS is like using BM without kyuubi.

 

[Joon]

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Nice theory, but too far-fetch. I agree with someone who stated Zetsu and Madara could be linked.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

From narutopedia

Spoiler

The Susanoo is the third ability granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan to those who awaken the abilities Tsukuyomi — which symbolises the "Spiritual World and Darkness" and Amaterasu — which denotes the "Material World and Light". It creates a gigantic, humanoid being that surrounds the user. As one of the strongest techniques granted to those that have acquired the Mangekyō Sharingan, it is the user's guardian deity,

Susanoo is formed through the materialisation of the user's chakra and as such differs in appearance as well as colour between users.


Unlike the other visual-based techniques of the Sharingan, this technique is still accessible to the user even if they lose the Mangekyō Sharingan, as shown when Madara used it, both when he had no eyes,[7] and while the Rinnegan was active.[8]

note u unlock it with MS but unlike ama tsu susanoo comes froom the body/chakra/soul not the eyes so in a way susanoo is like a spiritual power a reflection on the soul note how sasuke susanoo got all evil looking when was consumed by darkness yet most of its darkess went away when itachi and harashima talked to him


So yea

 

[The Sach]

Two things,
First why I watch Naruto, is logic important?
Answer for me is yes, a given set of logic is important in the manga, and it does affect my opinion regarding manga, if one wants better action, one can go and watch DBZ instead.
Second thing Madara using Susano'o for me is a thing I want Kishi to pretty much explain, because it straightforward arises a question in my mind about whether logic is important for Kishi or not.
I don't call it a plot-hole rather I will call it a 'logic hole'.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Downside?
Not being able to see.
The pain caused by over-use.

then you dont have to kill your fellow uchiha clansmen for their eyes just pop in some randoms eyes you still activated susanoo already right?

 

[Aya San]

You know he could have created a different scenario where Maddy didn't have to use susanoo right? But he chose this way so there's a high chance it will be explained later on. You don't just read one chapter and then bash Kishi. The manga was meant to be read in vols. and little mysteries like this usually get explained in the next few chapters within the same vol.

If it does get explained good, if it doesn't in the next few chapters you can criticize

 

[AGoodBoy]

Downside?
Not being able to see.
The pain caused by over-use.

not being and to see and pain are hardly that big a deal when you can still use susano'o. In fact, technically, obito has unlocked kamui in both his MS eyes. Why doesn't he have susano'o? We were just shown madara using susano'o without any eyes, but somehow obito can't use it with just 1 even though his other eye has MS unlocked? In fact, the eyes are still linked considering kakashi and obito can see out of each other's eye. No matter how you slice it, using susano'o without eyes is definitely a plothole. The increased Yin potential of the sharingan(which allows for chakra based constructs to be formed) is gone. The requirement of susano'o that 'MS must be unlocked in both eyes' is now gone because you have no eyes. There's no completion of the circuit by the eyes. There's nothing connected to that chakra sprouted in your brain to complete the requirement.

No
Madara has ems and sasuke was going blind from using it with ms
That's probably the reason why you get ems
Sasuke went blind from over using it,madara is blind from not having his eyes

You completely missed the point. The point is that in both cases the eyes are locked.missing eye, blind, sealed eyes(izanagi/izanami), in all those cases the eyes are no longer usable. If susano'o, the best MS technique, can still be used after the eyes are rendered useless, wtf is the point? logically speaking madara doesn't even need a damn EMS because he can simply bring out PS and sense the general direction of his opponent. You're using a visual jutsu without visual prowess.

 

[Raekwon26]

then you dont have to kill your fellow uchiha clansmen for their eyes just pop in some randoms eyes you still activated susanoo already right?

Jesus, how can someone not grasp this?

Having the EMS stops the loss of light, stops the physical toll using MS techs does on the body and does not cause after pain after using the techs.

Losing the light in your eyes means you've lost the ability of sight but also, the after effects of the over-use of your eyes will begin to take an unmeasurable amount of pain on the body.

this was all explained.