[Discussion] Where did Naruto go bad?

swaminaruto

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I'm going to get a LOT of flak for saying this but most of the hard-core Naruto fans know deep within their hearts that Naruto is not the brilliant series it once was. Following are the reasons I think Naruto did wrong(I know I'm not a writer and it's Kishi's manga and all but I feel that as an artist, if you set a standard for yourself, you have to live up to that standard and not let slip halfway through).

1) Kurama turning good way too soon:
When I read this part in the manga, it was a shocker for me. The fox and its hatred formed the main core of the series. This moment should have been one of the greatest points in the manga dealt with as much care and attention as the story of Naruto's birth or Jiraya's death. You can't just change its character over the course of a few pages. The series lost most of its emotional pull after this. Also, in all other previous fights in Naruto, there was always that hinting of that sinisterness within. That feeling of 'the rampaging fox can take over any time and destroy everyone and everything'.Now, the once-mighty fox has been reduced to the status of a pet dog.

2) Sasuke turning good:
Initially when I started watching Naruto, I thought Sasuke was going to be the main character's strong friend like in all shonen series. But Sasuke was different. He had his own beliefs and Kishi did a brilliant job of leading Naruto and Sasuke down opposite paths. I always wanted Sasuke to turn good but when he didn't even after Itachi's death, it became clear that he was sort of the final evil of the series.Then Kishi does another ass-pull and makes him good, this time, over the course of a few freaking pages. Now, even if Naruto and Sasuke fight, Kishi will have to pull some strange reason out of a hat rather then use the premise that had already been built very well.

(These two points are my major gripes. The ones below are minor, so, I won't expand upon them).

3) Too many edo tenseis
4) Kishi placed the Pein and Itachi fight too early into the series
5) Final arc lacks a villain who has a sufficiently gruesome backstory like Pein's
6) Juubi was not all that powerful as it was hyped up to be
7) Obito regretting his actions felt repetitive and unnecessary
8) Not enough people are dying in the war
9) The series has started to concentrate on power levels rather than emotions
10)Kakashi has been wasted as a character
11)Naruto no longer has any internal conflicts(Unlike all other fights Naruto has ever had)
12)Naruto has absolutely no seriousness that Neji or some other people have died. In the Pein fight, not once did he laugh or joke about during the fight. Here he is seen joking around and laughing just a few chapters after Neji died.
13)Passing the chakra cloak to everyone and Minato having KCM mode was pretty lame compared to Naruto's original standards
14)The Itachi-Kabuto-Sasuke fight was isolated and could have been incorporated into the main storyline better.
 

cigi

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somewhat right but i disagree with kurama turnin good way to soon and naruto seriousness over neji's death and other people what is he suppose to cry the whole time while they are at war!?
 

Honord Sage

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17 years inside Naruto and Kurama did not get some of Naruto rub on Him? Now who is being Naive? It was Kurama who tooled His Fellow Tail Beast that Naruto was the Old Man. It was Madara that fill Kurama full of hate and it was Naruto who fill Kurama full of hope.
 
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XxLapizxLazulixX

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I'm going to get a LOT of flak for saying this but most of the hard-core Naruto fans know deep within their hearts that Naruto is not the brilliant series it once was. Following are the reasons I think Naruto did wrong(I know I'm not a writer and it's Kishi's manga and all but I feel that as an artist, if you set a standard for yourself, you have to live up to that standard and not let slip halfway through).

1) Kurama turning good way too soon:
When I read this part in the manga, it was a shocker for me. The fox and its hatred formed the main core of the series. This moment should have been one of the greatest points in the manga dealt with as much care and attention as the story of Naruto's birth or Jiraya's death. You can't just change its character over the course of a few pages. The series lost most of its emotional pull after this. Also, in all other previous fights in Naruto, there was always that hinting of that sinisterness within. That feeling of 'the rampaging fox can take over any time and destroy everyone and everything'.Now, the once-mighty fox has been reduced to the status of a pet dog.

2) Sasuke turning good:
Initially when I started watching Naruto, I thought Sasuke was going to be the main character's strong friend like in all shonen series. But Sasuke was different. He had his own beliefs and Kishi did a brilliant job of leading Naruto and Sasuke down opposite paths. I always wanted Sasuke to turn good but when he didn't even after Itachi's death, it became clear that he was sort of the final evil of the series.Then Kishi does another ass-pull and makes him good, this time, over the course of a few freaking pages. Now, even if Naruto and Sasuke fight, Kishi will have to pull some strange reason out of a hat rather then use the premise that had already been built very well.

(These two points are my major gripes. The ones below are minor, so, I won't expand upon them).

3) Too many edo tenseis
4) Kishi placed the Pein and Itachi fight too early into the series
5) Final arc lacks a villain who has a sufficiently gruesome backstory like Pein's
6) Juubi was not all that powerful as it was hyped up to be
7) Obito regretting his actions felt repetitive and unnecessary
8) Not enough people are dying in the war
9) The series has started to concentrate on power levels rather than emotions
10)Kakashi has been wasted as a character
11)Naruto no longer has any internal conflicts(Unlike all other fights Naruto has ever had)
12)Naruto has absolutely no seriousness that Neji or some other people have died. In the Pein fight, not once did he laugh or joke about during the fight. Here he is seen joking around and laughing just a few chapters after Neji died.
13)Passing the chakra cloak to everyone and Minato having KCM mode was pretty lame compared to Naruto's original standards
14)The Itachi-Kabuto-Sasuke fight was isolated and could have been incorporated into the main storyline better.
1. I agree, I mean, I dont think Kurama should be acting the way he does now towards Naruto. Joking around and whatnot, but I think that they should have simply just come to a mutual understanding that they HAVE to work together at this point otherwise they are both goners. And then maybe AFTER the war, Kurama would accept Naruto as a friend. I dunno.

2. Agree, The WHOLE past few years, Sasuke was supposed to be the revenge seeker. And then..now he's fightning alongside K11 again..I mean...Its cool that they are back together, but I dont like the way it happened. I think Sasuke should have still kept his goal, but at the same time. The ones truly responsible are there, so in a sense, by killing Madara, who caused the continuing cycle of hatred, he is getting revenge.

3. The Edo tensei were interesting, but how thing unravelled...uhhh, coul dhave been better.

4. Pain/Itachi fights in my opinion were placed nicely.

5. meh

6. What? Juubi's TBBs are country busters. By releasing its burst of chakra, it cause a variety of "natural disasters" to happen, giant tornados, floods, earthquakes, giant lightning bolts, the aftermath was similar to a nuke. It survived its own TBB and Gyuki's TBB exploding inside it, and all the other attacks launched at it. I say The Juubi is pretty damn powerful.

7. Yeah...I mean..I saw that happening since he was part of Konoha at one point. But yea..Tobi SHOULDNT Have been Obito.

8. I would be more satisfied if at least ONE MORE main died, or if no death, at least some Near death injuries, or incapacitations. But no, everyone is either fine and a little dirty, or dead.

9. partially agree.

10. Kakashi still has potential.

11. Well, all his internal conflicts have been adressed. He is now respected by the entire shinobi world, Sasuke is now back ( maaaaybe) Kurama and him are now friends, only thing left is defeating Madara

12. Naruto dosent have time to mourn Neji, and thats just his personality, its not like he's going to go emo over Neji, they werent really particularly close either.

13. Partially agree. Part of me is like, "well, makes sense" other half is like, "But utter bs."

14. I wish that fight was more on a destructive level. There powers should have blown that cave apart. But whatev...
 
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saw2097

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I still think its fine.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it or think its bad. Its all a matter of preference. I actually like the direction it is taking.
 

Son Ryuto Uzumaki

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Yeah I wish Naruto and Kurama relationship had Grown from Kurama admiring his power and being inspired by his new found peace seeking personality. We all know that Kurama is Power arrogant so I wish naruto had developed more power similar to sasuke so Kurama would always have faith in Naruto and Naruto's power as a partner not just him not taking anymore of Naruto's chakra but Naruto relying souly on Kurama's,That's not fair for either of their character developments. I was really looking forward to Wind Tai-ninjustu Naruto equipped with Asuma's kunai with One Tail cloak power, now that would have been beast and extremely progressive =D
 

Son Ryuto Uzumaki

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So I think it went bad when he left with Jiraiya(Sannin, Grand Sage) and only came back with a little knowledge of his seal, still shadow clone and rasengan based and didn't have any knowledge of his element. I don't really think it's fair just look at Yahiko and Konan progression in three years and they started off not ninja's at all Naruto was all ready a ninja so no one can really say "well he was teaching him how to control Kurama's chakra" I understand that but he started off with a Ninja's foundation while Yahiko started from nothing so yeah I feel when he came back with Jiraiya with so little newness to bring to the table is when it went bad
 

NarutoIndra

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It's pretty damn good right now so your thread is completely opinionated. Although a bad point could be thought off as ever since the Juubi was revived.
 
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I think it started to really go bad once the war got started. Not when it started, but when they started introducing characters out of nowhere and having battle after battle of throwing lightning, fire, etc. I think thats when I really started to not have the respect I always had for Kishi as a writer. Still love his art though, hes an amazing illustrator most times
 

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Naruto went bad way before that. From a little into the war arc, Naruto has been horrible. This was has been just overall bad. I believe that particular moment is when Naruto entered the war WAY too early. Many fights were either really fast or skipped entirely. From that moment, Naruto has been bad.
 

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1) Kurama's conversion didn't take place in a few pages in my opinion actually.. From the moment Naruto sealed him and said he wouldn't hurt kurama and told him to just wait, we've seen Naruto constantly treat Kurama with respect. I'd argue from Chapter 499 all the way to Chapter 570 was the conversion of Kurama to Naruto's friend. Also, there's really not much to get into to make a big deal of. He just started acknowledging Naruto in the same way Naruto acknowledged him; he realized he wasn't being fair. Kurama was never evil, just lost his faith. Naruto earned that respect.

2) Yes, Sasuke is on the side of good, but he's by no means good. He's still a boy that thinks he can do whatever the hell he wants. He intends on ruling Konoha and Naruto will have to stop him. I'd actually say Kishi has made this a modernized version of the battle of end and a stronger one than the pre-shippuden version that was shown when Sasuke went to Orochimaru. It's the same battle of hope vs realism that this entire Manga is about so I doubt it'll be difficult to do.

3) I do agree however, that the plot advancement is far shorter than it's usually been, but the foundation of Naruto the manga has been established for over 300-400 chapters. There's no need to cover the same ideas again and again. Naruto really is at a point where Kishi can just tell the story. The meaning of the manga, the psychology behind the main characters, the mechanics of the various types of interactions have all been well enough established that it's just redundant to waste pages on them.
 
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