Madara letting himself die old seems silly now

[Floydical]

After seeing the method Madara used to revive himself, the fact that he let himself die after prepping Obito to take his place seems very strange. He clearly did not intend to use Edo Tensei to complete his plan, which was the key to how he was revived, so his original plan makes little sense now.

Facts:

1. Before Obito came into the picture, Madara was living off the Mazo. This means he was trying to survive as long as possible.

2. Madara never accounted for using Edo Tensei in his plan. He was fully confident he could complete his plan without making use of the tech.

3. Zetsu stated (*********** translation) that controlling Obito like he did to revive Madara was his one and only purpose.

Its obvious now that Madara planned for Black Zetsu to eventually force Nagato, like he did with Obito, into restoring him. However, we have to conclude that this would only bring him back to life, not restore his youth. The only reason Madara was restored young is because he had his young edo body. So how did Madara plan to be restored to this state without using edo tensei? Not only that, but he let himself die old so if Nagato's form of the jutsu was used on him, it would bring him back old. So how did Madara plan to bypass the youthful aspect of his revival without utilizing a modified edo body as a catalyst?

My point about him letting himself die old is that if he planned to live until he forced Nagato to revive/ restore him, why did he change his mind once he prepped Obito to take his place? Clearly letting himself die complicated his plans.

 

[Zuru]

Don't question his genius, it was all part of his elaborate scheme.

 

[Corgi]

Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan because he planned for Nagato to revive him.

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And since Black Zetsus purpose was to take over a body, it's safe to assume he was actually supposed to take over Nagato's body at the right moment. He didn't need Obito at all, in a sense.

The thing is, maybe it's possible Madara could have been brought back by Nagato in his living state, or at least a state where he could active Mugen Tsukiyomi upon being brought back.

 

[Ohhdang]

I think you are putting too much into Madara being old. Who is to say that is a detriment being as old as he was? Clearly there are secrets about Madara's body that we don't know yet but for him to go with this plan knowing he was going to be old clearly had no effect on the plan. Madara didn't find out all of the secrets of his body, about the truth of the uchiha's, or gain the rinnegan until he was near death which means his old body is a better vessel than his younger body. It's the same reason why he wants to become mortal instead of an edo because having unlimited chakra doesn't necessarily make that state better than him being in his normal body.

 

[-Haku Yuki-]

he thought things would go as planned and in his old state he could have cast the jutsu and has someone above me stated he probably intended to steal nagatos body

 

[Floydical]

Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan because he planned for Nagato to revive him.

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And since Black Zetsus purpose was to take over a body, it's safe to assume he was actually supposed to take over Nagato's body at the right moment. He didn't need Obito at all, in a sense.

The thing is, maybe it's possible Madara could have been brought back by Nagato in his living state, or at least a state where he could active Mugen Tsukiyomi upon being brought back.

I directly stated in my original post that it was obvious that he planned to conrol Nagato with Black Zetsu to revive him, just like he did with Obito. The thing is, how did he plan restore his youthful body in addition to being resurrected?

 

[Corgi]

Everything you just stated was in my original post. The thing is, how did he plan restore his youthful body in addition to being resurrected?

Tbh, I didn't even read the full thing until after I posted ._.

I said at the end, perhaps Rinne Tensei could actually bring the target back in prime. If you think about it, the jutsu itself doesn't make sense. How does it work? It pulls the soul back into the body? I don't understand if it was said, but maybe you could alter the soul or whatever with your own chakra or something so that when it comes back, it comes back in a different state than death. With Black Zetsu controlling Nagato, he could've altered the soul or whatever.

 

[itachi4real]

What's with all the madara hate going on lately??? S*** this is crazy

 

[rollin]

If his original plan worked and sasuke and Nagato captured killer bee and naruto there would be no need for him to be young because there wouldn't be a war to capture bee and naruto
I guess he could transplant his eyes back from nagatos body and become the juubis Jin while being old

 

[Floydical]

Tbh, I didn't even read the full thing until after I posted ._.

I said at the end, perhaps Rinne Tensei could actually bring the target back in prime. If you think about it, the jutsu itself doesn't make sense. How does it work? It pulls the soul back into the body? I don't understand if it was said, but maybe you could alter the soul or whatever with your own chakra or something so that when it comes back, it comes back in a different state than death. With Black Zetsu controlling Nagato, he could've altered the soul or whatever.

It doesn't actually put the soul back into the body from what I can tell. The Naraka path looked like it was returning their souls, but I think it was actually returning life forces. The reason I say this is because how could Nagato have been collecting souls? Yes he took people's souls with human realm, but what about characters like the elderly toad? He simply killed him (did not collect his soul) yet he was revived. To me, that means the jutsu simply returns life forces to the individuals, which causes the soul to return as a result.

From what we've seen in the manga, we can only conclude that it is limited to reviving you just as you died.

 

[Floydical]

I think you are putting too much into Madara being old. Who is to say that is a detriment being as old as he was? Clearly there are secrets about Madara's body that we don't know yet but for him to go with this plan knowing he was going to be old clearly had no effect on the plan. Madara didn't find out all of the secrets of his body, about the truth of the uchiha's, or gain the rinnegan until he was near death which means his old body is a better vessel than his younger body. It's the same reason why he wants to become mortal instead of an edo because having unlimited chakra doesn't necessarily make that state better than him being in his normal body.

he thought things would go as planned and in his old state he could have cast the jutsu and has someone above me stated he probably intended to steal nagatos body

If his original plan worked and sasuke and Nagato captured killer bee and naruto there would be no need for him to be young because there wouldn't be a war to capture bee and naruto
I guess he could transplant his eyes back from nagatos body and become the juubis Jin while being old

But if Madara was brought back old, he would immedietly die because he would no longer be connected to the Mazou. So he must have been set on reviving himself in a youthful body.

 

[Young Thug]

this man has the questions, and none of you have the answers

 

[GhostProject]

If this isn't a plothole, then either we are assuming too many limitations on the Rinne Tensei, or there is something about a reborn natural Rinnegan user that we don't know yet. Perhaps the next manga chapters will give us the answers.

 

[thegame]

Well, it doesn't matter, because if Nagato reached the point, where he gathered all the Bijuu, Madara could revive old, and connect himself to the Juubi, and thus proceed his plan.

Don't forget, that the alliance would have had 0 possibility of defeating the alliance without any Kuybi.

Obito's job was simply to gather members for Akatsuki, and to lead Nagato down the right path. Black Zetsu's job was make the one with rinnengan revive Madara. Be it old or young didn't seem to matter.

Beside of that, this story has so often made the impossible, possible. What you say is not conclusive. There is no reason, why rinne tensei couldn't be used to turn a person into a younger version of himself as well.

 

[Champ]

Rinne tensei makes little sense. If yo body is obliterated does it still revive you? Madara is now alive what about dude body he used to be resurrected in, isn't he stil in that unknown dude body. Madara being brought back a old man made little sense, or what he going to be revived in a new young body.

 

[Senju Bean]

The Rinne Tensei is supposely one of the most powerful techs of the rinnegan. It costs even more charkra than CT. I don't think it would be surprising if the tech has some flexibility in terms of choice.

 

[SharinganisOP]

From what we have seen we can conclude it is entirely possible for him to have been revived at a younger age. Remember that the King of hell has the ability to reconstruct as well as having the ability to revive. It is entirely possible that when reviving one person instead of many people, putting energy into that one person could revive them in their most powerful state.

Though that is just a theory. Based on what we have seen, it could be a nice assumption to assume that he would be revived as being old since everyone Nagato revived was still the same age. But we have yet to see one person get revived who was old. It is entirely possible that their age could be different.

Then again, Madara was also expecting the plan to go off better. He expected the Juubi to have all the bijuu and to have been revived by Nagato at the right time. Being old may not have been a problem for Madara in the original plan. But also since Madara was planned to be the juubi host, if he became the host immediately when he was old he would still be extremely powerful despite his age (Also being the juubi's host might actually reverse aging, and the only reason for one dying as the juubi's host is because they want to for whatever reason, but that is honestly completely based off of nothing). It will heal all wounds a person has and give them absurd amounts of chakra. Also if Madara became the host instantly and made the shinju with all the bijuus chakra, it should have bloomed instantly and allowed him to cast his infinite tsukyomi. So regardless of his age, he was expecting to use infinite tsukyomi soon after he revived if everything went according to plan. Things just didn't happen to go as planned, but he was able to adapt to the changes that had been made in the plan.

 

[Floydical]

Well, it doesn't matter, because if Nagato reached the point, where he gathered all the Bijuu, Madara could revive old, and connect himself to the Juubi, and thus proceed his plan.

Don't forget, that the alliance would have had 0 possibility of defeating the alliance without any Kuybi.

Obito's job was simply to gather members for Akatsuki, and to lead Nagato down the right path. Black Zetsu's job was make the one with rinnengan revive Madara. Be it old or young didn't seem to matter.

Beside of that, this story has so often made the impossible, possible. What you say is not conclusive. There is no reason, why rinne tensei couldn't be used to turn a person into a younger version of himself as well.

Even if he could stay alive by connecting to the Juubi, there would would be little point in staying perpetually old. Perhaps Rinne Tensei does have the capability, but either way restoring his youth must have been part of his plan.

Rinne tensei makes little sense. If yo body is obliterated does it still revive you? Madara is now alive what about dude body he used to be resurrected in, isn't he stil in that unknown dude body. Madara being brought back a old man made little sense, or what he going to be revived in a new young body.

No, if the body is obliterated it does not seem to be able to revive you. I was thinking the exact same thing about the sacrifice used to revive him. It does indeed cost a living sacrifice to use Edo Tensei, so yes Madara's real body seems to contain some random person's old body too.

From what we have seen we can conclude it is entirely possible for him to have been revived at a younger age. Remember that the King of hell has the ability to reconstruct as well as having the ability to revive. It is entirely possible that when reviving one person instead of many people, putting energy into that one person could revive them in their most powerful state.

Though that is just a theory. Based on what we have seen, it could be a nice assumption to assume that he would be revived as being old since everyone Nagato revived was still the same age. But we have yet to see one person get revived who was old. It is entirely possible that their age could be different.

Then again, Madara was also expecting the plan to go off better. He expected the Juubi to have all the bijuu and to have been revived by Nagato at the right time. Being old may not have been a problem for Madara in the original plan. But also since Madara was planned to be the juubi host, if he became the host immediately when he was old he would still be extremely powerful despite his age (Also being the juubi's host might actually reverse aging, and the only reason for one dying as the juubi's host is because they want to for whatever reason, but that is honestly completely based off of nothing). It will heal all wounds a person has and give them absurd amounts of chakra. Also if Madara became the host instantly and made the shinju with all the bijuus chakra, it should have bloomed instantly and allowed him to cast his infinite tsukyomi. So regardless of his age, he was expecting to use infinite tsukyomi soon after he revived if everything went according to plan. Things just didn't happen to go as planned, but he was able to adapt to the changes that had been made in the plan.

I'm glad you brought up the King of Hell, I actually have a theory about that exact thing, involving the preservation of his old body and a sacrificial version of Rinne Tensei that would restore his youth:

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But a theory like this holds little water, considering there is no conclusive proof that Rinne Tensei can actually reverse aging, its just a theory either way.

Actually, we have seen someone revived old with Rinne Tensei, Fukasaku. He was killed and revived by Pain during the attack on Konoha, and he was brought back old (I actually had this in my original post but didn't bother to look up his name). So this concludes that at least Nagato's version of the jutsu does not restore age.

Again, perhaps concentrating on one individual and sacrificing your own youth is a possible way to restore a dead person's life and youth, but the manga clearly has no proof of this.

The problem with reviving old and staying perpetually old is that he would inevitably be limited by his age. Even if he is just maintaining his Genjutsu, he likely would die within a short amount of time. Reviving young would be the only way to secure his plans with confidence for any significant amount of time

 

[Makz]

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Nagato restored his body. Madara, as the original owner of the rinnegan, could probably do something even more drastic. Like rejuvinating himself?

 

[Floydical]

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Nagato restored his body. Madara, as the original owner of the rinnegan, could probably do something even more drastic. Like rejuvinating himself?

Hmm this is a very good point, however this does not 100% confirm its possible to restore youth with the Rinnegan. From my perspective, what Nagato did here was restore his current age's vitality. By that I mean I don't think he got younger by doing this, just restored his maximum vitality at the time.

Keep in mind that Nagato was immobile and greatly weakened considering he no longer did his own fighting once he became Pain. He was in a very diminished state when he posed as Pain, and therefore his vitality was far from 100%. So again, I think its more likely that he was simply restoring his maximum possible vitality, rather than actually restoring himself to a more youthful age.

But other than focusing on that small technicality, I find this to be a very possible solution, considering this is the closest manga evidence we could possibly connect to Madara somehow restoring his youth with the Rinnegan outside of Rinne Tensei.