Possible deeper link between 573 and 655, involving Izanami

[Floydical]

First of all, I feel there are lots of possibilities related to this idea, but I have no solid evidence and only a shaky theory to present in this thread. As a result, I am only going to be presenting what I see as facts and notable connections that I feel need to be made between these chapters. Hope you enjoy the read .

Everyone is gossiping about the images relating 573 and 655:

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However, what is of greatest concern to me is what occurs between the showing of these 2 images. I have commented on it before, but countless 'mistakes' have been made during the war arc, but most notably in the last 80 or so chapters, coincidentally in close relation to chapter 573. These mistakes range from very simple things to more complex things. I considered attempting to assemble a collection of these mistakes for this thread but decided against it due to the sheer effort that would be involved (does anyone blame me?). If you are still convinced that these 'mistakes' were actual mistakes, I could argue very strongly against it.

But in addition to the massive collection of mistakes that occurred between these 2 chapters, something very important happened soon after 573, that was the introduction of Izanami. As soon as 573 concluded, the first thing Kishi did was set of the Sasuke/ Edo Itachi meeting. The culmination of which, was the first use of Izanami.

From what we learned about Izanami, one creates a loop by re-creating images of occurrences that one experiences. These occurrences are physical, and can be related to the user or not, but they must still be linked in succession and the user must note physical sensations that he and or the target experience. The loop itself is created after a series of images and experiences link up over time. The manga uses A, A', B, B', C and C'.

My theory, be it weak, is that the footsteps shown in 573 could represent an A portion of an Izanami loop and the footprints shown in 655 could represent an A' portion of an Izanami loop. The link between these images could be considered physical and without a doubt one could argue that with the exception of the background and rain, they are identical in every other way. Again, this is a very shaky theory, one that I can not really theorize further upon (specifically the reasoning for it or who might be casting a genjutsu of such magnitude), but I simply want to present this physical connection between the chapters and the use of Izanami. What I would be implying from this is that there exists a relationship regarding the content of these 2 chapters, the mistakes being made in between, and the characters involved in these chapters (specifically Obito) that have some level of importance related to it.

To try to further back my theory, think about how much significance these chapters really hold. Chapter 655 is essentially the end of the war arc as it had begun, before Edo Madara came into play, and everything related to Obito, his rise and his fall occur between these chapters. This is primarily a thread made to present evidence that I feel is relevant and is intended to inspire ideas and thoughts regarding this issue, because I am a strong believer that there might be something more Kishi is trying to present in these chapters that I have yet to grasp. If anyone has noticed any images that could classify as a B and B' or C and C', I would be glad to see it.

Again, thanks for reading .

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

This thread was pointless... The scan just means "naruto is the light in the darkness and shinobi gather under his light."

 

[esenn1]

what mistakes u r talking about? it is just a single image, it's not related to Izanami stuff. it's just SA footprints. which in the second image it is kinna sympobic. that's it

 

[The Necromancer]

It's symbolism. Kishi isn't a good enough writer to make it anything more.

 

[Floydical]

This thread was pointless... The scan just means "naruto is the light in the darkness and shinobi gather under his light."

what mistakes u r talking about? it is just a single image, it's not related to Izanami stuff. it's just SA footprints. which in the second image it is kinna sympobic. that's it

Its not about what is written in the panels nor the symbolism involved, its deeper than that. The mistakes are honestly countless, the most notable of which was 'Kakashi's magical vest' that went from being cut with a giant 'X' to being normal back to being cut again.

Here is one, Minato shown with his normal coat, later missing the flames:

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There are literally dozens of these mistakes made between these chapters, far too many to post in one thread.

 

[The Necromancer]

Its not about what is written in the panels nor the symbolism involved, its deeper than that. The mistakes are honestly countless, the most notable of which was 'Kakashi's magical vest' that went from being cut with a giant 'X' to being normal back to being cut again.

Here is one, Minato shown with his normal coat, later missing the flames:

Spoiler

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There are literally dozens of these mistakes made between these chapters, far too many to post in one thread.

Kishi always makes mistakes. He's human. What's your point?

 

[Floydical]

Kishi always makes mistakes. He's human. What's your point?

That the mistakes that were made in the last 80 chapters were book-ended by these common images. What I am implying is that the mistakes that were made were intentional and these Izanami 'book-ends' could be reason to believe that something about what has happened in these chapters may not be right.

Again this is all speculation and I don't really have a solid theory, I just find the timing very coincidental. I am saying that its possible that some of the events that have occurred since 573 were directed by a third party within the manga and Kishi is perhaps showing us possible implications of Izanami on a very large scale.

Perhaps I did not explain my original point well enough.

 

[The Necromancer]

That the mistakes that were made in the last 80 chapters were book-ended by these common images. What I am implying is that the mistakes that were made were intentional and these Izanami 'book-ends' could be reason to believe that something about what has happened in these chapters may not be right.

Again this is all speculation and I don't really have a solid theory, I just find the timing very coincidental. I am saying that its possible that some of the events that have occurred since 573 were directed by a third party within the manga and Kishi is perhaps showing us possible implications of Izanami on a very large scale.

I'm going to tell you right now. This isn't what's happening. Do you really believe Kishi, the man who basically threw Tobi's identity in our face, then dragged out his reveal, is subtle enough to put in "mistakes" such as kakashi's vest and Minato's cloak in the hopes that his readers will catch them and understand his grand rouse? He's not.

Kishi's version of subtle, is naming a secret identity after the real identity, giving him the same ability as a character we know would have this ability, and have his secret identity tell us he was in the same place as his real identity in the same time frame. Obito is as subtle as kishi can get, and that's pathetic.

 

[Floydical]

I'm going to tell you right now. This isn't what's happening. Do you really believe Kishi, the man who basically threw Tobi's identity in our face, then dragged out his reveal, is subtle enough to put in "mistakes" such as kakashi's vest and Minato's cloak in the hopes that his readers will catch them and understand his grand rouse? He's not.

Kishi's version of subtle, is naming a secret identity after the real identity, giving him the same ability as a character we know would have this ability, and have his secret identity tell us he was in the same place as his real identity in the same time frame. Obito is as subtle as kishi can get, and that's pathetic.

That is essentially exactly what I'm implying. Note that everything related to Obito's reveal and downfall (as I mentioned before) is contained between those 2 chapters, if that means anything to anyone.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

You know where I stand on the argument. Here's the thing. You make a mistake once you can dismiss it. You keep making the same mistake, correct it, do it again not once but many many times that's intentional. Kakashi's vest and the Hachibi's tooth are just two examples. You simply cannot dismiss this as an error especially when confronted with Itachi's (Kishi's Mary Sue) explanation of Izanami.

 

[Floydical]

You know where I stand on the argument. Here's the thing. You make a mistake once you can dismiss it. You keep making the same mistake, correct it, do it again not once but many many times that's intentional. Kakashi's vest and the Hachibi's tooth are just two examples. You simply cannot dismiss this as an error especially when confronted with Itachi's (Kishi's Mary Sue) explanation of Izanami.

If I understand you correctly, I am not implying this image was a mistake. What I'm implying is that these 2 images are the bookends of an Izanami loop on a grand scale. We know that to cast Izanami, 2 identical physical images/ sensations are linked, named A and A', thus creating the infinite loop. These nearly identical images could be interpreted as the A and A' of a very large scale casting of the Jutsu.

The 2nd image has great meaning because it marks the end of Obito's strength while the first directly predates the first use of Izanami. In addition, the vast majority of these seemingly intentional mistakes are contained between these 2 chapters. Perhaps, at the very least, this image marks the end of these mistakes, possibly marking the end of the alternate loop that has occurred on the large scale. The sheer volume of chapters between these images, if my theory is true, would likely mean that this is the end and a B/B' and C/C' likely don't or will not exist.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

If I understand you correctly, I am not implying this image was a mistake. What I'm implying is that these 2 images are the bookends of an Izanami loop on a grand scale. We know that to cast Izanami, 2 identical physical imagesi/ sensations are linked, named A and A', thus creating the infinite loop. These nearly identical images could be interpreted as the A and A' of a very large scale casting of the Jutsu.

The 2nd image has great meaning because it marks the end of Obito's strength while the first directly predates the first use of Izanami. In addition, the vast majority of these seemingly intentional mistakes are contained between these 2 chapters. Perhaps, at the very least, this image marks the end of these mistakes, possibly marking the end of the alternate loop that has occurred on the large scale. The sheer volume of chapters between these images, if my theory is true, would likely mean that this is the end and a B/B' and C/C' likely don't or will not exist.

I'm with you, but the loop would have to be much larger. We have to consider that some of the most important errors occurred outside of the first instance of Izanami from a timeline perspective. The changes to the Uchiha tablet being one and Hashirama's wood golem change is another. The flashback on both predates and also the loop would have to encompass Minato's trench with missing flames which would indicate his clothes were different in that loop. The DRS would revive him in a state he was in when he was originally sealed. If the loop is confined to the beginning of when the SA rushed to aid Naruto against Obito, then looped back at them rushing to aid against Madara, the loop wouldn't be big enough to incorporate the other flashback errors that predate that timeline. Now, a loop within a loop is a possibility I couldn't rule out and suddenly we are looking at the Rinnegan a little differently.

 

[GhostProject]

Although I find it more likely that the two scans are simply symbolic foreshadowing, I'm not going to try to play devil's advocate here. This is a very original thought, and I would love for this to be Madara's trump card which would also explain why Madara adopted a more passive approach to the battle.

 

[Floydical]

I'm with you, but the loop would have to be much larger. We have to consider that some of the most important errors occurred outside of the first instance of Izanami from a timeline perspective. The changes to the Uchiha tablet being one and Hashirama's wood golem change is another. The flashback on both predates and also the loop would have to encompass Minato's trench with missing flames which would indicate his clothes were different in that loop. The DRS would revive him in a state he was in when he was originally sealed. If the loop is confined to the beginning of when the SA rushed to aid Naruto against Obito, then looped back at them rushing to aid against Madara, the loop wouldn't be big enough to incorporate the other flashback errors that predate that timeline. Now, a loop within a loop is a possibility I couldn't rule out and suddenly we are looking at the Rinnegan a little differently.

I think you are still on a level of complexity above mine. If you are implying loops are encompassing chapters from long ago, you may also need to consider the forest of death being within the loop, if in fact Karin was not an original participant in Team 7's 2nd exam. We know that she met Sasuke during the exam, but it might have been in a different loop.

I don't think this is the case and my point is that I think your idea of the size of loop is possibly too much. Kishi doing a loop of the magnitude I'm suggesting seems a little more reasonable in my opinion, although either way I'd say its a stretch. I simply feel that these chapters in particular are of significance importance, whether or not either of us have the right idea on the issue.

Although I find it more likely that the two scans are simply symbolic foreshadowing, I'm not going to try to play devil's advocate here. This is a very original thought, and I would love for this to be Madara's trump card which would also explain why Madara adopted a more passive approach to the battle.

I didn't really consider it being of Madara's doing. I was under a personal impression that this is beyond any character in the manga, and more so implies a greater hand at work, possibly Kishi trying to tell us something. Either way, I really like the idea of connecting this to Madara and his trump card.