Which idealism do you prefer more ?

[awesomeseimei]

Hey, i wasn't dissing you at all, I just thought your answer was humorous. I'm a little luckier to say that I don't live in a dangerous area but even when I do feel safe, doesn't mean someone on a whole different continent would. If peace exists, mankind will certainly take their time to find it, cause it's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Well, yeah, not in my lifetime anyway :| I wasn't being entirely serious on that one, I speak in sarcasm and exaggerations most of the time (which tends to confuse people). It's true that I'm scared to simply walk on the streets though. I became a rather unfeeling person over the course of my life, that's exactly why I can compare myself to such terrible people as Danzo and Oro (I'm not saying they are terrible characters, they are meant to be antagonists after all). All ideals that OP listed don't fit me at all.

 

[-Sky-]

When you actually grow up, you'll learn that Naruto's ideals are actually the most matured ones. **** the system, everything's gonna be just fine if people get to understand each other.

"Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein

 

[Bronze]

Madara's idealism is the combination of all of these.

 

[Third Sage]

"Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein

Exactly. He was a great mind, indeed. =D

 

[avenged sevenfold]

Yahiko's and Naruto's seem the most interesting to me

 

[chaos control]

Everyone in the world? You're throwing all humans into the same basket?

If their's injustice then their's also justice, if their's inequality their is also equality. You said the only correct way to bring peace is Obito's way, but how exactly is that correct? It's an illusion, things that we humans are born for are completely thrown out the window.

Working for a living, the thrills of success and the disappointments of failure's. Normal things that happen everyday. Humanity has experienced horrible events, but also amazing events.

The world thrives off many things, not just what you've said. Destroying everything is nothing but an easy way out

Good and bad are two sides of the same coin. For there to be good, bad things must exist. Otherwise, good holds no meaning. Let's pretend that everything in the universe turned pink all of a sudden. If I said "Get me the pink thing" without using any other modified words, then the statement would effectively lose all meaning because everything would be pink. It is only if other colors like blue and red existed that the statement "get me the pink thing" would make any sense. In the same way, if bad doesn't exist then good ceases to exist as well. This further serves to prove my point that the world thrives on darkness. I am not saying that there is no light. However, to truly eliminate both sides of a coin, you must eliminate the whole coin. Sadly, you can't have the heads without the tails. I can tell you specifically what I mean by "the world thrives on darkness", but you have to be willing and patient enough to wait for and read a wall of text. I have thought deeply about this. Are you willing to step in that deep? If so, prepare for a huge wall of text.

PS. I don't support infinite tsukuyomi. I support the world having not been created in the first place.

 

[scorezor]

oh... you're that guy... i don't find naruto's way too childish , that's only an excuse that the readers or the viewers give to say why naruto sucks lol.......

OT: Naruto , Sasuke and Nagato (well , nagato a bit).

 

[kunde]

Naruto and Yahiko anyday. They both want people understand each other this could seem bit childish when you compare it with real llife but in NV it's definitely gonna happen.

 

[Klad]

Good and bad are two sides of the same coin. For there to be good, bad things must exist. Otherwise, good holds no meaning. Let's pretend that everything in the universe turned pink all of a sudden. If I said "Get me the pink thing" without using any other modified words, then the statement would effectively lose all meaning because everything would be pink. It is only if other colors like blue and red existed that the statement "get me the pink thing" would make any sense. In the same way, if bad doesn't exist then good ceases to exist as well. This further serves to prove my point that the world thrives on darkness. I am not saying that there is no light. However, to truly eliminate both sides of a coin, you must eliminate the whole coin. Sadly, you can't have the heads without the tails. I can tell you specifically what I mean by "the world thrives on darkness", but you have to be willing and patient enough to wait for and read a wall of text. I have thought deeply about this. Are you willing to step in that deep? If so, prepare for a huge wall of text.

PS. I don't support infinite tsukuyomi. I support the world having not been created in the first place.

Then you wouldn't have been here :|

 

[Madarauchiwa]

i preferred madara and hashiramas ideal when they were kids at the lake and even after when they first formed konoha but then madara had to go and ruin it.

 

[-Sky-]

Good and bad are two sides of the same coin. For there to be good, bad things must exist. Otherwise, good holds no meaning. Let's pretend that everything in the universe turned pink all of a sudden. If I said "Get me the pink thing" without using any other modified words, then the statement would effectively lose all meaning because everything would be pink. It is only if other colors like blue and red existed that the statement "get me the pink thing" would make any sense. In the same way, if bad doesn't exist then good ceases to exist as well. This further serves to prove my point that the world thrives on darkness. I am not saying that there is no light. However, to truly eliminate both sides of a coin, you must eliminate the whole coin. Sadly, you can't have the heads without the tails. I can tell you specifically what I mean by "the world thrives on darkness", but you have to be willing and patient enough to wait for and read a wall of text. I have thought deeply about this. Are you willing to step in that deep? If so, prepare for a huge wall of text.

PS. I don't support infinite tsukuyomi. I support the world having not been created in the first place.

At this point, it's clear that you and I have different beliefs. I don't want to eradicate everything because of the darkness in life.

Believing in true peace and humans understanding one another and living in harmony is most definitely out of our league. I can't see it happening, all I see is wether the life I live is truly worth something. How will I feel when I die? What will I leave behind? Those are questions that float through my mind every night.

I don't want to be a person who caved into darkness because things in the world didn't go the way I wanted. The horror's that we see, the grief that we feel, it's all their for a reason. Giving up on life because of hardship isn't what I want to be remembered for.

Regardless of wether harmony is possible or not, heck, it probably isn't, but I have no doubt in my mind that their's no better thing to live and die for.

I simply don't want to be a quitter. That's why I support Naruto's views.

 

[chaos control]

Then you wouldn't have been here :| [/FONT]

I include myself. Nobody should exist. Not even myself. We should not all be killed though since we are already here. It is too late.

 

[Xāvî1]

I prefer Naruto's and Yahiko's the most.

 

[Naijakid]

Hashirama and Naruto

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

I understand what Kishimoto did with the manga now . This manga is all about other's ideals and will . Let's take a few examples .

Naruto - Wants people to understand eachother .
Obito - Wants to erase the system .
Sasuke - Wants to change the system .
Yahiko - Wanted people to understand the same pain .

Which idealism is more interesting so far ? I'll have to say Sasuke's or Obito's . Yahiko's was nearly impossibile , while Naruto's is too childish IMO , but he's a matured character . Obito's the best way to achieve peace , but it's not real , while in Sasuke's case , it may be plausible . So far , we've seen :

Obito's will vs Yahiko's will .
Obito's will vs Naruto's will .
Now we have yet to see Naruto's will vs Sasuke's will .

how da fuk could you forget danzou's ideals of shinobi rules ??

 

[chaos control]

At this point, it's clear that you and I have different beliefs. I don't want to eradicate everything because of the darkness in life.

Believing in true peace and humans understanding one another and living in harmony is most definitely out of our league. I can't see it happening, all I see is wether the life I live is truly worth something. How will I feel when I die? What will I leave behind? Those are questions that float through my mind every night.

I don't want to be a person who caved into darkness because things in the world didn't go the way I wanted. The horror's that we see, the grief that we feel, it's all their for a reason. Giving up on life because of hardship isn't what I want to be remembered for.

Regardless of wether harmony is possible or not, heck, it probably isn't, but I have no doubt in my mind that their's no better thing to live and die for.

I simply don't want to be a quitter. That's why I support Naruto's views.

Nice words. However there is something key that you said. That key thing is the word I. You and I or any other individual person may be able to live and die in in a nice fashion, but can everyone in the entire world? No! That is the problem. That inequality! Just look at any system of currency for instance. The value of currency is based on how much of a rare resource the government has in stock. If the standard of currency loses its rare quality then the value of the money goes down (thus causing inflation). That is why governments just can't go around printing as much money as they want! If you were a little kid, you might think "Why can't they print money? That way, everyone could have some". That logic initially sounds like it would make sense, but noooooooo. Money apparently has to be rare! By definition of the word rare, not everyone can have some (or at least not enough). You can't honestly say that everyone can have enough or an equal amount. If that were the case, then money wouldn't be rare! Therefore the currency system (like many other systems in life) actually require people to be screwed and in pain in order for the system to work. At the same time however, we need the currency system. If everything was just given away for free, then people would just greedily take as much stuff as they want without regard for saving stuff for other people. Additionally, if there was no incentive for workers (like money) then nobody would take jobs and society would not progress. Therefore, we need the currency system despite the fact that the system requires some people to fail. A lot of us also enjoy the system since it helps bring us material luxury. The fact that we both need and enjoy the currency system says that we essentially thrive on it as a society. The fact that we thrive on a system that inevitably brings pain and suffering to many people serves as a prime example of how society depends on and enjoys darkness and suffering. The fact that this darkness and suffering is inevitable for some people (as I have stated) proves that there is no possible way for everyone in the world to be equal. Inequality is the ultimate evil in my opinion, and the world enjoys that inequality. Therefore despite having some light, the world is ultimately an evil entity. No evil deserves to exist. That is why I say that it would be true peace if the universe hadn't been created. It is not about quitting or not getting what you want. It is about fairness and justice.

 

[-Sky-]

Nice words. However there is something key that you said. That key thing is the word I. You and I or any other individual person may be able to live and die in in a nice fashion, but can everyone in the entire world? No! That is the problem. That inequality! Just look at any system of currency for instance. The value of currency is based on how much of a rare resource the government has in stock. If the standard of currency loses its rare quality then the value of the money goes down (thus causing inflation). That is why governments just can't go around printing as much money as they want! If you were a little kid, you might think "Why can't they print money? That way, everyone could have some". That logic initially sounds like it would make sense, but noooooooo. Money apparently has to be rare! By definition of the word rare, not everyone can have some (or at least not enough). You can't honestly say that everyone can have enough or an equal amount. If that were the case, then money wouldn't be rare! Therefore the currency system (like many other systems in life) actually require people to be screwed and in pain in order for the system to work. At the same time however, we need the currency system. If everything was just given away for free, then people would just greedily take as much stuff as they want without regard for saving stuff for other people. Additionally, if there was no incentive for workers (like money) then nobody would take jobs and society would not progress. Therefore, we need the currency system despite the fact that the system requires some people to fail. A lot of us also enjoy the system since it helps bring us material luxury. The fact that we both need and enjoy the currency system says that we essentially thrive on it as a society. The fact that we thrive on a system that inevitably brings pain and suffering to many people serves as a prime example of how society depends on and enjoys darkness and suffering. The fact that this darkness and suffering is inevitable for some people (as I have stated) proves that there is no possible way for everyone in the world to be equal. Inequality is the ultimate evil in my opinion, and the world enjoys that inequality. Therefore despite having some light, the world is ultimately an evil entity. No evil deserves to exist. That is why I say that it would be true peace if the universe hadn't been created. It is not about quitting or not getting what you want. It is about fairness and justice.

I understand economics yes. However, that system is crucial to the world spinning, but it's not crucial to experiencing happiness.

The only point I see you really going for is the inequality point. People who are born with less fortune, disabilities, etc. Some are born into even worse scenario's. It's true, some people are born with good fortune, others are not.

But none of this changes my views. You've noticed the strife, thousands of people notice the despair. That doesn't mean that their isn't a force of good. Their are great people who make sacrifices for those less fortunate. A cousin of mine spent two years in South Africa helping the less fortunate. I'm not at that age yet, but I hope to do something like that. Going to elderly homes to spend time with people, doctors who help people with mental illnesses, nurses who do the same, etc. Volunteering for disaster clean-up.

It is my view that it is the responsibility of the ones born with more to dedicate themselves to those with less. Of course their will always be people in pain, but so long as their are people to help, good in the world will always exist.

Life isn't about how much you receive, it's about how much you give.

Anyway, that's it for me. I'm off to bed. Peace

 

[chaos control]

I understand economics yes. However, that system is crucial to the world spinning, but it's not crucial to experiencing happiness.

The only point I see you really going for is the inequality point. People who are born with less fortune, disabilities, etc. Some are born into even worse scenario's. It's true, some people are born with good fortune, others are not.

But none of this changes my views. You've noticed the strife, thousands of people notice the despair. That doesn't mean that their isn't a force of good. Their are great people who make sacrifices for those less fortunate. A cousin of mine spent two years in South Africa helping the less fortunate. I'm not at that age yet, but I hope to do something like that. Going to elderly homes to spend time with people, doctors who help people with mental illnesses, nurses who do the same, etc. Volunteering for disaster clean-up.

It is my view that it is the responsibility of the ones born with more to dedicate themselves to those with less. Of course their will always be people in pain, but so long as their are people to help, good in the world will always exist.

Life isn't about how much you receive, it's about how much you give.

Anyway, that's it for me. I'm off to bed. Peace

That's nice. I too am young. I am not saying that there is no light in the world. I am just saying that peace is an asymptopical goal. It can be worked towards by the actions you have suggested. I plan to improve the world too actually. However, there are only but so many people that these actions can reach. There is no possible way for every single person on this earth to be saved from misfortune and an ultimate painful end to a painful life. Since everyone can not be saved, we can not reach true justice and true peace. We can only approach it by helping more and more people. That increases the world's equality. The only way for everyone to be equal however, is for the world to not exist. We are all equal in nonexistence.

 

[JaffaTalk]

Orochimaru's anyway...