The Ōtsutsuki Tribe Becoming The Uzumaki Clan

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

That all makes sense, except for it being the Sage's mother. As of right now, is that any more than a guess? Not to be rude, but I don't see anything relating her to being a priest rather than a queen. I'm not ignorant though, I'm open to anything else you have to say.

In ancient shamanistic times, when people worship Nature. The offices of royalty and clergy, Temporal and Spiritual, overlap with one another. If you look at Ancient Rome, the Emperor is both the head of state and Pontifex Maximus aka the High Priest of the Roman Religion.

 

[Darth Vader]

In ancient shamanistic times, when people worship Nature. The offices of Royalty and Clergy, Temporal and Spiritual, overlap with one another. If you look at Ancient Rome, the Emperor is both the head of state and Pontifex Maxima aka the High Priest of the Roman Religion.

But of what religion is the origin of the shinigami? Roman religion may be that way, but did Japan factually do the same?

 

[Penguin]

I cannot believe how you can piece all this together. Really amazing. I didn't read all of the second one, but I did skim. Will go more into detail later.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

But of what religion is the origin of the shinigami? Roman religion may be that way, but did Japan factually do the same?

Before the end of World War 2, the Emperor of Japan is both head of state and head of the Shinto religion. Exercising autocratic temporal and sacerdotal powers on both offices.

 

[Darth Vader]

Before the end of World War 2, the Emperor of Japan is both head of state and head of the Shinto religion.

Then you've come closer to making a skeptic into a believer. But, I have one more question. Was the Emperor of Japan at that time the head of the Shinto religion before he became Emperor? If that's the case, I don't see a logical connection being that she was introduced as a queen. I guess I have two questions... Can that argument even be made if the first of this Emperor/Head of Religion was in the last century? A majority of Kishimoto's work closely relates the characters, techniques, and symbols to the Shinto Religion, however, has he made any obvious connections to anything dating that late?

 

[Strict]

Why wouldn't Kishimoto reveal the Rikudo Sennin being an Uzumaki or their ancestor when the Manga is about to end? Makes no sense anyways to hide such information, does it?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Then you've come closer to making a skeptic into a believer. But, I have one more question. Was the Emperor of Japan at that time the head of the Shinto religion before he became Emperor? I guess I have two questions... Can that argument even be made of the first of this Emperor/Head of Religion was in the last decade? A majority of Kishimoto's work closely relates the characters, techniques, and symbols to the Shinto Religion, however, has he made any obvious connections to anything dating that late?

The Emperor, and the Imperial Royal Family as a whole, exercise both temporal and spiritual powers since they are traditionally claimed to be direct descendants of the Sun Goddess Amaterasu.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Why wouldn't Kishimoto reveal the Rikudo Sennin being an Uzumaki or their ancestor when the Manga is about to end? Makes no sense anyways to hide such information, does it?

Because the truth of the matter is, strictly speaking, the Ohzuzuki/Uzumaki bloodline of Rikudou is the true and only bloodline of the Sage, the Senjus and Uchihas trace their origin from the Juubi, since the Elder and Younger Sons were creations from the Juubi's Yin and Yang essence with Banbutsu Sozo much like the Bijuus. That is why Hagoromo, reincarnated to an Uzumaki, and not to an Uchiha or Senju who are "children of the Juubi"

Viz:

Spoiler

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Looking beneath the underneath:

Viz:

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The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo?

This:

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The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang)

The Uzumaki/Ohzuzuki Heritage is Rikudou's true and original human bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

The Uchiha (Yin) and Senju (Yang) powers come directly from the Juubi.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Still trying to cling onto these half assed theories? Lol, give up you mook.

 

[Strict]

"Looking for stability, one god was divided into yin an yang". A god looking for stability was the Rikudo Sennin. And he divided into Yin and Yang. I remind Madara's words. Rikudo Sennin used Banbutsu Sozo to create all things in nature - this ability let him create the seal to seal the Ten Tails a well.

- Izanagi is based on the principle of Banbutsu Sozo an is achieved when you possess the bloodlines of Uchiha and Senju.
- Once you possess Uchiha and Senju powers, you awake the Rinnegan, which was the Doujutsu of the Rikudo Sennin.

Why wouldn't the one combining Uchiha and Senju powers gaining access to the Juubi's powers, which is the origin of those two powers?

The God Tree was the originator of those powers. The princess who ate the fruit possessing all those powers, gave birth to a children which automatically carried those powers within it.

The Uzumaki are from the blood lineage, this mean that Uzumaki are a sub-category of the Senju, they come from the Senju they are from the Senju's lineage.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Hopefully after Naruto and Obito's heart-to-heart talk, the Manga will focus on Hashirama and Madara, since the previous WSJ Preview stated "Madara reveals a shocking truth, then Naruto will..." I have a suspicion that Madara was behind Uzushiogakure's destruction and upon awakening the Rinnegan, he reread the Tablet and discovered something.

 

[CP alt]

Honestly, that would be the final straw that ruined everything Naruto himself stood for.
He was supposed to be the hard worker, the one who tried as hard as he could to achieve his goals. What he lacked in talent he mad up for with pure will.

Now its like he relys on others power. Was a descendant of the SO6P, given the 9 tails, baby sat through all his fights. It would just be awful

 

[Bronze]

Not this againZzz. Manga proved you wrong that Sage was Uzumaki, and now you're deciding to make a theory of his family becoming Uzumaki.

His tribe became uchiha and senju through his sons. Although your theory is still great.

 

[Multiply]

Not this againZzz. Manga proved you wrong that Sage was Uzumaki, and now you're deciding to make a theory of his family becoming Uzumaki.

His tribe became uchiha and senju through his sons. Although your theory is still great.

You managed to try to tell him he's wrong but blow him all at the same time. This base never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Waltz]

It is because the Shiki Fūjin is Rikūdo/Hagoromo's Jutsu

and the Reaper is Kaguya Ōtsutsuki, Rikūdo/Hagoromo's mother:

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As to why Kaguya became the Shinigami of the Shiki Fūjin, Kishimoto has not yet explained or revealed why, either as an end effect of eating the Shinju's fruit or as a mother's sacrifice to aid her son in fighting the Jūbi.

The Hannya mask portrays the souls of women who have become demons due to obsession or jealousy...not seeing the connection with Kaguya. Also if she was the Shinigami used by Hiruzen then who...

Spoiler

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​

The conclusion seems distant. Basically: Uchiha and Senju represent the Jubi's dichotomy knitting that with an Uzumaki being blood related however not decedent of the Senju could only point towards Rikudo's tribe. However the entire argument sole foundation is the original Japanese text, nothing more. In comes down to:

-> Kishimoto's accuracy: Error remains a possibility.

-> Is it possible to bridge consanguinity and descent. Though the Uzumaki may not have been lineal descendants of the Sennin, it doesn't necessarily mean they were originally Ōtsutsuki. They could have been of Ōtsutsuki descent differently to Rikudo.

-> Did the Ōtsutsuki remain a pure clan: Though it may have seemed that way; there is always the possibility of intermarrying among clans; even more so after peace was established by Kaguya. A common example is the Uchiha, a clan which seems to stay within their boundary's, however:

Spoiler

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As all Doujutsu stem from the Shinju, it highlights that some of the Uchiha from an early era may have been defective to intermarry with others...and the difference in genetics would have spurred the Byakugan. ​

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The Hannya mask portrays the souls of women who have become demons due to obsession or jealousy...not seeing the connection with Kaguya.​

The Hannya Mask (般若) itself takes its name from the Sino-Japanese word for prajna or wisdom, the mask was named as such because the Perfection Sutras (Hannya Scroll) were effective against demons.

The Prajnaparamita or the Hannya-Haramitta speaks of the Six Perfections to become a Bodhisattva aka a Sage, a Sennin

The Six Perfections Are:

1. Dāna pāramitā: generosity
2. Śīla pāramitā : virtue
3. Kṣānti (kshanti) pāramitā : patience
4. Vīrya pāramitā : diligence
5. Dhyāna pāramitā : contemplation
6. Prajñā pāramitā : wisdom, insight

He who has followed the Six Perfections becomes a Bodhisattva, a Sennin.

The Bodhisattva then has mastery of the Six Realms/Paths also known as Rokudō 六道

1. Naraka Path
2. Preta Path
3. Animal Path
4. Asura Path
5. Human Path
6. Deva Path

Much like Rikudou Sennin who is the Sage of the Six Paths.

 

[Booker]

Come on now, just give this up.

Spoiler

Again and again, I've read theories about how The Sage is an Uzumaki, or rather formed the Uzumaki Clan by his own blood. While these theories are clearly thought out, they run into a few issues for me.

-Relevancy-​

My first argument against this theory is that a reveal of the Sage being Uzumaki would have zero impact on the story.

We've been beaten over the head (especially in this War Arc) that Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage. We get that already. It's rather obvious.

So why would Kishimoto be hiding this secret for the entirety of the Manga? It's a super small easter egg that would have next to no relevancy with the story. It's a lot of effort to hide something that, when revealed, our reaction wouldn't go far beyond, "Oh, that's nifty."

Would it tie up any loose ends? No.
Would it make us majorly rethink any plot points? No.

It has no impact.

-Lineage-​

The Lineage of The Sage in this theory makes no sense, especially with the newest chapter explaining how he became.

The Sage began with his mother (obviously) Kaguya, the first person ever to use chakra. When The Sage was born, he already had chakra in his veins; making him the second person to have chakra.

Spoiler

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Many of the Pro-Uzumaki theorists suggest that the Uzumaki clan as a whole came before the Senju, contrary to popular belief. The Uzumaki clan as a whole had strong life forces and chakra, just as the Senju, except the Senju obtained this from the Uzumaki.

How can this be, when Kaguya only had one son, The Sage? If The Sage truly was Uzumaki, and he was only the second person ever to use Chakra, how did the rest of the Uzumaki clan obtain their strong life forces and chakra? The Sage only had two sons; The Elder and Younger, which we knew evolved into the Senju and Uchiha and adopted his signature Yin Yang chakras.

Knowing this, how did the Uzumakis adopt their strong life force chakras?

The only sensible answer is that the Uzumaki adopted their chakra from the Senju, since the Senju and Uchiha were the only others to recieve chakra (This goes into a theory I'm working on. How did the other shinobi recieve chakra then? Simple; The Senju and Uchiha line goes far back. They descended from them, through inter-family relationships. That's why their chakra isn't as potent, because it wasn't pure and was watered down through the years. But I digress.)

-Rinnegan-​

Theorists also like to justify the Rinnegan with the combination of the Uzumaki+Juubi to create the Rinnegan. They believe The Sage obtained the Rinnegan when he became the Juubi's jinchuriki.

However, this runs into issues as well. It's been suggested time and again the Rinnegan was used by the Sage before hand to defeat the Juubi.

Spoiler

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Here, we can see that Obito used some Jutsu to become the Juubi's jinchuriki. We know this wasn't Kamui, because if it was what was used, Kakashi would have been crushed. On top of that, if Kamui was used to absorb abilities, Obito would have obtained Kakashi's power.

No, this was a Rinnegan Tech. Most likely the same one the Sage used to become the Juubi's Jinchuriki.

Other than that, the Sage being born with an influx of chakra implies he had The Rinnegan, the peak of chakra.



I have many more small issues with it, but these are the main points. Needless to say I do not believe the theory.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Come on now, just give this up.

And look at the first reply in your thread:

i only read a part of what u said i will finish it in a bit.. but at the part where u said with holding this info would have 0 impact that might be so.. but everyone pretty much new the 4th hokage was naruto's father yet that was with held for quite a while aswell so there is no reason why the sage being an uzumaki cant be with held

 

[Booker]

And look at the first reply in your thread:

Minato being Naruto's father was relevant to the story.

Plus, that wasn't my only argument.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Minato being Naruto's father was relevant to the story.

I could say the same concerning the Sage and his reincarnation (Naruto) coming from the same heritage, you see, your argument hinges on the subjective placing of value in literary merit which itself is a categorical error in that you present it as an objective reason in your argument.