[Theory] How the Ōtsutsuki Tribe Became The Uzumaki Clan

[SixPathsOfTobi]

I made a thread for the uzumaki - senju thing:

You must be registered for see links

 

[cmontesi]

Maybe rikoudo had a student WHO he taught fuinjutsu's WHO later married a early decents from the younger son decents WHO then became uzumaki clan...

That's stupid.
Senju = great life force + extreme physical power
Uchiha = seals + ocular(eye) power
Both are made to offset the other.
Uzumake = seals + great life force.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Master piece by Sir Derp again, never thought about Amenonuhoko, though I knew about it, great work, simply astonishing...

Thank you. =D

 

[Ras Akiki]

I have a question, not trying to start a quarrel. But how come Nagato is the only one who could wield the power and not the other Senju such as 2nd and 5th Hokage. Madara could wield it because he had both Uchiha and Senju bloodline and Obito is the same, he had both Uchiha and Senju. That is something that I quite figure out, unless the Uzumaki in some way has both Senju and Uchiha in them, or is just because of their life force.

 

[Ras Akiki]

Wield the Rinnegan.

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

I have a question, not trying to start a quarrel. But how come Nagato is the only one who could wield the power and not the other Senju such as 2nd and 5th Hokage. Madara could wield it because he had both Uchiha and Senju bloodline and Obito is the same, he had both Uchiha and Senju. That is something that I quite figure out, unless the Uzumaki in some way has both Senju and Uchiha in them, or is just because of their life force.

The eyes that are implanted is the uchiha part.

 

[Uzumaki18]

I bet the sage's got a RED hair.

 

[Zato]

Again I will repeat my previous answer:

The mistake is the incorrect attribution of the source of their powers. The Uzumaki's longevity and life force did not come from the Younger Son, it came as an inherent trait of the Uzumaki Clan over time from their Ohzuzuki Ancestors which also includes their trademark red hair (something the Younger Son and Senjus don't have), the Younger Son's strong will and body are attributes directly from the Juubi's Yang, the zenith manifestation of this Yang power is Mokuton, the same way the Zenith powers of the Juubi's Yin is the MS and EMS. What the Senjus share in common are their strong bodies, which come from the Juubi's Yang, what all Uchihas share in commonality is the base Sharingan, which comes from the Juubi's Yin. In Summation: The Uchiha and Senju powers come directly from the Juubi, the Uzumaki's attributes does not. It came from their Ohzuzuki Ancestors.

You do realize if that was the case then Nagato WOULD NOT be able to use the Rinnegan... Madara clearly states that you have to have the combined powers of the Senju and Uchiha to use the Rinnegan. This is obvious because the SO6P was born with 2 great balances of power and thus those powers were split between two of his sons. Which means you have to be a direct descendant of the SO6P to operate the Rinnegan. The reason why the SO6P was BORN with his power was because his mother had the power of the Juubi running through her while she was pregnant with him. No where does it state that she had any other children nor did anyone from her clan ate the fruit. It also states that she was the first human to use chakara and the SO6P was obviously the 2nd. This means that your theory is flawed.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

Again I will repeat my previous answer:

The mistake is the incorrect attribution of the source of their powers. The Uzumaki's longevity and life force did not come from the Younger Son, it came as an inherent trait of the Uzumaki Clan over time from their Ohzuzuki Ancestors which also includes their trademark red hair (something the Younger Son and Senjus don't have), the Younger Son's strong will and body are attributes directly from the Juubi's Yang, the zenith manifestation of this Yang power is Mokuton, the same way the Zenith powers of the Juubi's Yin is the MS and EMS. What the Senjus share in common are their strong bodies, which come from the Juubi's Yang, what all Uchihas share in commonality is the base Sharingan, which comes from the Juubi's Yin. In Summation: The Uchiha and Senju powers come directly from the Juubi, the Uzumaki's attributes does not. It came from their Ohzuzuki Ancestors.

I dont know what manga your reading but I would love for you to show me where in the manga you read the parts in bold.

I'll bet my left testicle you cant.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I dont know what manga your reading but I would love for you to show me where in the manga you read the parts in bold.

I'll bet my left testicle you cant.

The Uchiha and Senju are the Yin and Yang of the Juubi

We must look beneath the underneath:

Viz:

You must be registered for see images

The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo?

This:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang)

The Uzumaki Heritage is Rikudou's true and original human bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

The Uchiha (Yin) and Senju (Yang) powers come from the Juubi.

Others insist that the Uzumaki Clan descended from the Younger Son, this is simply not true, one of the simplest reasons they couldn't is the Clan's trademark red hair.


We have here the Younger Son who clearly doesn't have red hair, in fact if we look at the anime depiction, the hair color is black:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And his descendants (Hashirama, Tsunade, Tobirama, Nawaki,etc.) didn't have red hair:

You must be registered for see images

Then suddenly there's a "descendant" clan (Uzumaki) of the Younger Son whose pure blooded members (Naruto is half) all have red hair? impossible. Obviously the Uzumakis like ancient clans practice "inbreeding" that they have always had red hair:

You must be registered for see images

(Pure Blooded Uzumakis)

Taking Biology into account, hair is one of the most consistent genes, and having the same color of hair in a clan who inbreeds is true. It doesn't make sense that a "descending" clan could develop such an unorthodox hair color if the original hair color was a different color. The interbreeding clan (Senju) would have to have red hair, or a strong dominant gene for it, but the Senjus don't, and red hair in itself is a recessive gene in humans.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

Spoiler

The Uchiha and Senju are the Yin and Yang of the Juubi

We must look beneath the underneath:

Viz:

You must be registered for see images

The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo?

This:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang)

The Uzumaki Heritage is Rikudou's true and original human bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

The Uchiha (Yin) and Senju (Yang) powers come from the Juubi.

Others insist that the Uzumaki Clan descended from the Younger Son, this is simply not true, one of the simplest reasons they couldn't is the Clan's trademark red hair.


We have here the Younger Son who clearly doesn't have red hair, in fact if we look at the anime depiction, the hair color is black:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And his descendants (Hashirama, Tsunade, Tobirama, Nawaki,etc.) didn't have red hair:

You must be registered for see images

Then suddenly there's a "descendant" clan (Uzumaki) of the Younger Son whose pure blooded members (Naruto is half) all have red hair? impossible. Obviously the Uzumakis like ancient clans practice "inbreeding" that they have always had red hair:

You must be registered for see images

(Pure Blooded Uzumakis)

Taking Biology into account, hair is one of the most consistent genes, and having the same color of hair in a clan who inbreeds is true. It doesn't make sense that a "descending" clan could develop such an unorthodox hair color if the original hair color was a different color. The interbreeding clan (Senju) would have to have red hair, or a strong dominant gene for it, but the Senjus don't, and red hair in itself is a recessive gene in humans.

smh...Let me rephrase. Where in the manga does it state/show that:

1. the Ootsutsuki clan members had red hair?
2. the Uzumaki did not inherit their strong life force from the younger son?
3. Younger Son's strong will and body are attributes directly from the Juubi's Yang?
4. Uzumaki clan is the direct descendant of the Ootsutsuki clan?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

smh...Let me rephrase. Where in the manga does it state/show that:

1. the Ootsutsuki clan members had red hair?
2. the Uzumaki did not inherit their strong life force from the younger son?
3. Younger Son's strong will and body are attributes directly from the Juubi's Yang?
4. Uzumaki clan is the direct descendant of the Ootsutsuki clan?

I've already showed you that the Uzumakis did not descend from the Younger Son because he is not a redhead and red hair is a recessive gene in humans, and since they are distant kin with Hagoromo's children descendants, that would leave only the original Ohtsusuki bloodline being the Uzumaki progenitor bloodline.

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the Juubi's body is Mokuton (Yang) while the Sharingan is from Juubi's Eye (Yin)

Also, you most likely misunderstood Zetsu's statement in 606 that Nagato is a descendant of the Senjus because he is of Senju Lineage:

There is a great misconception in Zetsu's statement in chapter 606 saying that Nagato is a descendant of the Senjus because he is of Senju Lineage:

You must be registered for see images

It is not Zetsu's statement that is erroneous but the interpretation of others, if we take the translation of lineage based on the context of Zetsu's statement in conjunction with Kushina's statement in a previous chapter, the most accurate meaning of lineage, based on context, is the anthropological definition of the word: Kinship/Consanguinity:

You must be registered for see images

Kushina said the Uzumakis and Senjus were distant relatives, the true intended meaning of the word "lineage" based on the context of Zetsu's statement was : Consanguine of being related by blood, not Nagato descending from the Senjus : Nagato is a blood relative (lineage) of the Senju.

If the Senjus and Uzumakis descended from the same ancestor (Younger Son) then they will be close/immediate relatives, not distant relatives like Kushina said, which would contradict her statement and Manga canon, so it's logical to assume that the present day Uzumakis are "cousins" to both Senju and Uchiha since they did not descend from Rikudou himself but from Rikudou's relatives.

Also the original Japanese text of Zetsu in 606 is this:

You must be registered for see images

The original Japanese word that Zetsu used was "血縁" or Ketsuen which translates as "Blood Relative" NOT 子孫 or Shison which means descendant.

Anyone who can read Japanese will tell you that Zetsu's statement only meant blood relations but not pertaining to descent:

Sorry Sasuke2, but you're wrong. Try to read original Japanese manga Naruto especially if your theory is based on one word. Here:

You must be registered for see links

Here we have chapter you mentioned (Chapter 606):

You must be registered for see links

Now carefully look at Zetsu's words. Ser Derp Obito is right about this chapter. Zetsu used word 血縁 written in hiragana like this けつえん. And this word has only two meanings:
1) blood relative or relationship
2) consanguinity

Where is your left testicle now?

 

[Honord Sage]

Ask your selves what were the Names of the First and Second Sons? Suppose the elder Sons first Name was Uchiha and the Youngest was call Senju. When they separated from each other and their Fathers believes the Elder Son decedents at first call themselves the Children's of Uchiha and the Younger Sons the Children's of Senju over the it was simply shorten to Uchiha and Senju,those who stayed to follow the original teachings of the SO6P might have call themselves Uzumaki from the Guy that keep following the original teachings. Remember both Senju and Uchiha only took some of the teachings of the Sage not all of it.

 

[Rchan81]

I've already showed you that the Uzumakis did not descend from the Younger Son because he is not a redhead and red hair is a recessive gene in humans, and since they are distant kin with Hagoromo's children descendants, that would leave only the original Ohtsusuki bloodline being the Uzumaki progenitor bloodline.

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the Juubi's body is Mokuton (Yang) while the Sharingan is from Juubi's Eye (Yin)

Having blonde hair is also a recessive gene. Yet somehow we have Tsunade a Senju with blonde hair.

 

[Joon]

I assume you already now where I stand. If you do not, than I disagree with all of it entirely. Although, like always an outstanding theory, but you are over-analyzing factual information and misusing evidence to support your theory.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Having blonde hair is also a recessive gene. Yet somehow we have Tsunade a Senju with blonde hair.

Red is by far more recessive (the most recessive hair color) , look at Naruto, yellow because of Minato despite Kushina's red hair.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I've already showed you that the Uzumakis did not descend from the Younger Son because he is not a redhead and red hair is a recessive gene in humans, and since they are distant kin with Hagoromo's children descendants, that would leave only the original Ohtsusuki bloodline being the Uzumaki progenitor bloodline.

Your not answering my question. Where in the manga does it state that the Ootsutsuki clan members had red hair? Which chapter? which page?

Also...Senjus tend to have a variety of hair colors. Isn't it possible that some red haired Senju married a blond or even another red head, had some red haired children, decided to start a new clan and called themselves Uzumaki? And over time the red haired gene became the most common one in the gene pool? There are numerous other ways to speculate why the Uzumaki have red hair besides just your speculation. You make it seem like the Uzumaki's could only possibly have inherited their red hair directly from the "original" Ootsutsuki's. Which, of course, is not the only possibility.

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the Juubi's body is Mokuton (Yang) while the Sharingan is from Juubi's Eye (Yin)

Where did you read this part in I highlighted in bold? Which chapter? What page?

Mokuton release is created by simultaneously using the elements of Earth release and Water release. You dont necessarily need Yang release for Mokuton. This is fact. The next part is speculation: Yang Chakra breathes life into things. So, Yang chakra probably has the property of augmenting Mokuton by "breathing life" into it. Mokuton without Yang chakra = Dead planks (like the ones Yamato likes to use). Naruto's KM cloak is made of Yang chakra. On one occasion Naruto's cloak came into contact with Yamato's dead plank and branches and leaves started to sprout out of it. Also, it does the same to white zetsus.

Also, you most likely misunderstood Zetsu's statement in 606 that Nagato is a descendant of the Senjus because he is of Senju Lineage:

There is a great misconception in Zetsu's statement in chapter 606 saying that Nagato is a descendant of the Senjus because he is of Senju Lineage:

You must be registered for see images

It is not Zetsu's statement that is erroneous but the interpretation of others, if we take the translation of lineage based on the context of Zetsu's statement in conjunction with Kushina's statement in a previous chapter, the most accurate meaning of lineage, based on context, is the anthropological definition of the word: Kinship/Consanguinity:

You must be registered for see images

Kushina said the Uzumakis and Senjus were distant relatives, the true intended meaning of the word "lineage" based on the context of Zetsu's statement was : Consanguine of being related by blood, not Nagato descending from the Senjus : Nagato is a blood relative (lineage) of the Senju.

If the Senjus and Uzumakis descended from the same ancestor (Younger Son) then they will be close/immediate relatives, not distant relatives like Kushina said, which would contradict her statement and Manga canon, so it's logical to assume that the present day Uzumakis are "cousins" to both Senju and Uchiha since they did not descend from Rikudou himself but from Rikudou's relatives.

Also the original Japanese text of Zetsu in 606 is this:

You must be registered for see images

The original Japanese word that Zetsu used was "血縁" or Ketsuen which translates as "Blood Relative" NOT 子孫 or Shison which means descendant.

Anyone who can read Japanese will tell you that Zetsu's statement only meant blood relations but not pertaining to descent:

This has nothing to do with me wanting to know where it is in the manga that you read that the Ootsutsuki members had red hair.

Anyway, about the "lineage" thing. No. I never interpreted that as pertaining to descent. I've always been under the impression that the manga merely stated that Senju and the Uzumaki were blood relatives. Nothing less. Nothing more.

Where is your left testicle now?

Still right here waiting for you to provide me with those scans that state the things I originally highlighted bold in your original comment.

 

[Rchan81]

Red is by far more recessive (the most recessive hair color) , look at Naruto, yellow because of Minato despite Kushina's red hair.

That is not the point. Your argument was Uzumaki with red hair can not be descendants of Senju because it is a recessive trait. I give you proof that your logic is faulted. Not going to go into which gene is dominant etc etc.
FYI it is possible for offsprings to have red hair even if the parents do not.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

That is not the point. Your argument was Uzumaki with red hair can not be descendants of Senju because it is a recessive trait. I give you proof that your logic is faulted. Not going to go into which gene is dominant etc etc.
FYI it is possible for offsprings to have red hair even if the parents do not.

No, it is your understanding that is faulty. Full blooded Uzumakis all have red hair then suddenly their "sibling clan" the Senjus have different hair colors, and yet they descended from the same apical ancestor aka the Younger Son? Improbable and ridiculous Lol

And it's clearly stated and specified that the descendants of the Younger Son were the Senjus only, not Senjus and Uzumakis:

You must be registered for see images

And if they descended from the same ancestor, their two clans would be sibling clans which makes them close relatives, not distant relatives, same thing with being an off-shoot of the Senju.

So please stop making excuses because the Uzumakis did not descend from the Younger Son.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Where did you read this part in I highlighted in bold? Which chapter? What page?

Oh I'm sorry, did you perchance not notice that the Shinju is one gigantic Mokuton Tree? Lol